NV powerwise gone too above even than Bleach??Kishi going super saiyan?

ninjarasengan

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1. Kenpachi used his bankai so of course he would feel effects after using it.
2. Gremmy's meteor is much larger compared to Madara's little cat sized fodder balls.

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Aizen's hypnosis binds everyone that looks at his Zanpakuto and troll them into believing what they have seen to be a delusion.
Kaguya can destroy planets with her truth seeking orbs? I would love for you to show me a feat of this or is this just all hype from a deluded fanboy who has lost his mind?

Hashirama is pathetic who gets speedblitzed by Stark and crushed by Barragan's respira. His ocean and mountain buster hype is barely relevant here.

The DC of Naruto is irrelevant when you have fast cats such as Ulquiorra or Starrk who can side step those explosions and spam their attacks.

>One lanza from Ulquorra and he can destroy an entire land, and he can continuously spam those shits without getting tired.
>Naruto can barely keep up with Sasuke without going depleted and asking for Kurama's chakra. Pathetic.

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Ichigo's Mugetsu, and Ichigo at that time was stronger than Hyogoku Aizen so obviously Mugetsu Ichigo would have defeated him, but he crushes Naruto and Sasuke even worse. Naruto and Sasuke get a sword to the throat from Ichigo's attack and they die before they even witness their deaths.

Simple power and DC is irrelevant when your opponents are much faster to the point that you can't see them.
>Sasuke's Susano'O is destroyed by Mugetsu
>Naruto gets cut in half by Ichigo's side step.

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Doesn't matter what type of title you give her.
Kaguya isn't touching Yama when he is coated in endless flames.
Kaguya isn't touching Barragan without being erased from existence.

Your only argument is that she can't be sealed but you have no prove of Kaguya even being able to harm the other Bleach characters that I have named.

Dimension shifting? Isn't that something that she uses when she is trying to run away? lmao I thought so.
What good is running away, and how is she going to defeat someone when all she can do is hide in dimensions and run away.

You are defending a pathetic character who has no chance against Yhwach or any of the other haxed characters I have mentioned.

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1-Shikai i think

2- Debris from Madara's dwarfed mountain ranges after being cut multiple times by Sasukes PS

3-Sharingan and Genjutsu in general are the equivalent of Aizen's hypnosis

4-It's hype from the Manga







5-speed in both verses is unquantifiable

6-Naruto wasted a lot of Chakra before he faced Sasuke

7-Technically purely spiritual beings shouldn't be able to harm Kaguya, She could Genjutsu them first.

8-She only dimension shifted to avoid her only weakness...the Yin Yang seals

9-She has plenty of chance.
 

Dannie

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1-Shikai i think

2- Debris from Madara's dwarfed mountain ranges after being cut multiple times by Sasukes PS

3-Sharingan and Genjutsu in general are the equivalent of Aizen's hypnosis

4-It's hype from the Manga







5-speed in both verses is unquantifiable

6-Naruto wasted a lot of Chakra before he faced Sasuke

7-Technically purely spiritual beings shouldn't be able to harm Kaguya, She could Genjutsu them first.

8-She only dimension shifted to avoid her only weakness...the Yin Yang seals

9-She has plenty of chance.

You raise some good points, and I respect it, so I will leave it here as of now.

I'm not a fan of debating in different versus anyway as it just be becomes a hassle of trying to pit different abilities in different universes.
 

Aikor

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Guys arguing isnt gonna work
Bleach fans here wont belive any argument of a Narutofan

And vice versa

This is gonna go nonstop
 

Loki d

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Its not work like that. Precognition is not probability manipulation. But with precog power, the user can change the outcome of one moment/event when it happen because the user knew it earlier than anyone.

but

Probability manipulation can change/control the outcome of one moment/event.

Precognition

Power to perceive future events before they happen. Opposite power of Retrocognition

Capability

Users have the ability to foresee possible futures and observe what may happen. As knowledge of the future invariably causes that future to change, visions of the future are subject to frequent shifting. While not being able to select futures or travel through time, these visions may assist in possible courses of action.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Probability Manipulation

The power to manipulate probability, causing unlikely things to happen or likely things not to happen

Capability

The user manipulates the probability of an event to happen, making unlikely things occur more often or instantly and preventing liable events from happening. They can cause and prevent both good and bad luck, sudden deaths, natural disasters, and even apocalyptic events.

User can create a finite pocket of reality-disrupting quasi-psionic force, which upon reaching its intended target, causes disturbance at the molecular-level probability field surrounding the target. Thus, unlikely phenomena will occur. Among the many phenomena are: the sudden melting of gun barrels, the spontaneous combustion of any flammable object, the rapid rust or decay of various organic and inorganic materials, the poltergeist-like deflection of an object in flight, the sudden evacuation of air from a given volume the disruption of energy transmissions and fields, and so on.



You see above. What you post before was Probability Manipulation in which Juha Bach/Yhwach doesnt have. Yhwach cant control the outcome.

Yhwach only can foresee the future and devise a strategy to prevent it from happen/effecting him. And with help from other power/abilities he can be immune to future outcome. Precognition power what he have.

And GER is above him in power. And his speed is infinite and Yhwach doesnt have the reaction speed to counter GER attack.

I ask your knowledges about something like this.

Edit:You think I'm DB or Bleach fan? No. Im not sided with any verses and I can freely defend any verses or against any verses when I found necessary.

But Almighty can foresee anything then negate. Almighty>>GER
 
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After careful consideration, I see that NV has not surpassed Bleach yet. Here's why:

Lava diminsion was a real threat to everybody -> Yammato's Zanpakto is hotter than the sun

Gaara's Sand stopped a TT in midair (and could've killed him) -> Shutara's sewing skills, though

Shinobi are still human -> Lille Barro's weopon is unblockable (headshot)

And how would a shinobi counter Szayel?

Not to mention, Ichibei's power can allow him to wield a black hole as a weopon. Show me a Naruto feat that can counter a black hole!


:hint:
 

Aikor

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After careful consideration, I see that NV has not surpassed Bleach yet. Here's why:

Lava diminsion was a real threat to everybody -> Yammato's Zanpakto is hotter than the sun

Gaara's Sand stopped a TT in midair (and could've killed him) -> Shutara's sewing skills, though

Shinobi are still human -> Lille Barro's weopon is unblockable (headshot)

And how would a shinobi counter Szayel?

Not to mention, Ichibei's power can allow him to wield a black hole as a weopon. Show me a Naruto feat that can counter a black hole!


:hint:

Yes

My eraser

And konohamarus rasengan solos blackholes
 

Lord Tywin

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No, the 4 Heavenly Kings are at best 2nd form Juubi level(Toriko himself manly with Blue Oni
)...anyone above that beats them(which is pretty much all of the God Tiers).​
nah. Even back in the 4 beast arc they were defeating monsters capable of tanking US sized attacks without a problem.
 

Ansatsuken

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Actually Bleach HAX can be a factor on why this verse still can challenge NV.

Bleach character have good speed feats.

And for me speed + HAX is more dangerous than speed + DC.

What make Obito and Kaguya also Itachi dangerous? it was their Hax(Kamui, Tsukuyomi, Ash Bone, Totsuka) and not their DC.

Even in NV we agreed that Kamui is very HAX, god HAX.

Same also to Bleach verse. Barragan's respira, Aizen's Kyouka Sugetsu, Ichibei Hosubi's black ink and Yhwach is all HAX.

This some info about Aizen's Kyoka Sugetsu

Kyōka Suigetsu (鏡花水月, Mirror Flower, Water Moon): In its sealed form, it resembles a normal katana. The only decoration is the tsuba, which is a hexagon. The two sides parallel to the blade are long, whereas the four sides above and below the blade are shortened, making it into almost a diamond or prism-like shape. It has a green handle.
Shikai: The release command is "Shatter" (砕けろ, kudakero) and is used to both activate and deactivate it.[227]

-AizenShikai-

Aizen uses Kyōka Suigetsu.
Shikai Special Ability: The special ability of Kyōka Suigetsu is Kanzen Saimin (完全催眠, Complete Hypnosis).[228] It controls the five senses to the point where it can make the target misinterpret another person's form, shape, mass, feel, and smell to be an enemy's. The initiation condition for the hypnosis is to show the enemy the release of Kyōka Suigetsu. After seeing it just once, this person will completely succumb to the hypnosis. Afterwards, every time it is released, this person will fall under the thrall of the hypnosis. The hypnosis is long lasting; the Visored are still affected by Kyōka Suigetsu even though they were hypnotized at least 110 years ago. Because the spell works when one see the ritual, those who cannot see are consequently immune to the hypnosis.[229] When Aizen turns off the hypnosis by force of will, the image shown melts away or shatters. The complete hypnosis of Kyōka Suigetsu is absolutely flawless; even if the target is aware of being under the hypnosis, they cannot resist its influence.[230] The hypnotic abilities of Kyōka Suigetsu make it a highly useful tool in combat, for Aizen can create simple or complex illusions to deceive his opponents. For example, by creating a decoy of himself, or other illusions to distract his opponents, Aizen can hide his own movements and attack with impunity. His opponent will remain focused on the illusion until it is too late to react.[231][232] While the illusions Kyōka Suigetsu creates are quite powerful, those with considerable power and skill themselves may be able to note slight differences in the illusions compared to the real thing, even if they are not able to determine what exactly is different. 4th Division Captain Retsu Unohana detected something was amiss with Aizen's fake corpse, even though she did not realize what it was until seeing Aizen alive.[73] The Reiatsu of Kyōka Suigetsu gives it away to those keen enough to sense its actual presence past the illusions created by its complete hypnosis.[233]


The sole way to escape the ability of Kyōka Suigetsu is to touch the blade itself before complete hypnosis is activated.[49]


Like Sennin of Logic said only Manna user can defeat certain Fate characters. If other verses dont used Mana, they cant defeat this Fate character. This rule works everywhere.

And for Aizen, the underline statement is Aizen rule.
 

ninjarasengan

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Actually Bleach HAX can be a factor on why this verse still can challenge NV.

Bleach character have good speed feats.

And for me speed + HAX is more dangerous than speed + DC.

What make Obito and Kaguya also Itachi dangerous? it was their Hax(Kamui, Tsukuyomi, Ash Bone, Totsuka) and not their DC.

Even in NV we agreed that Kamui is very HAX, god HAX.

Same also to Bleach verse. Barragan's respira, Aizen's Kyouka Sugetsu, Ichibei Hosubi's black ink and Yhwach is all HAX.

This some info about Aizen's Kyoka Sugetsu

Kyōka Suigetsu (鏡花水月, Mirror Flower, Water Moon): In its sealed form, it resembles a normal katana. The only decoration is the tsuba, which is a hexagon. The two sides parallel to the blade are long, whereas the four sides above and below the blade are shortened, making it into almost a diamond or prism-like shape. It has a green handle.
Shikai: The release command is "Shatter" (砕けろ, kudakero) and is used to both activate and deactivate it.[227]

-AizenShikai-

Aizen uses Kyōka Suigetsu.
Shikai Special Ability: The special ability of Kyōka Suigetsu is Kanzen Saimin (完全催眠, Complete Hypnosis).[228] It controls the five senses to the point where it can make the target misinterpret another person's form, shape, mass, feel, and smell to be an enemy's. The initiation condition for the hypnosis is to show the enemy the release of Kyōka Suigetsu. After seeing it just once, this person will completely succumb to the hypnosis. Afterwards, every time it is released, this person will fall under the thrall of the hypnosis. The hypnosis is long lasting; the Visored are still affected by Kyōka Suigetsu even though they were hypnotized at least 110 years ago. Because the spell works when one see the ritual, those who cannot see are consequently immune to the hypnosis.[229] When Aizen turns off the hypnosis by force of will, the image shown melts away or shatters. The complete hypnosis of Kyōka Suigetsu is absolutely flawless; even if the target is aware of being under the hypnosis, they cannot resist its influence.[230] The hypnotic abilities of Kyōka Suigetsu make it a highly useful tool in combat, for Aizen can create simple or complex illusions to deceive his opponents. For example, by creating a decoy of himself, or other illusions to distract his opponents, Aizen can hide his own movements and attack with impunity. His opponent will remain focused on the illusion until it is too late to react.[231][232] While the illusions Kyōka Suigetsu creates are quite powerful, those with considerable power and skill themselves may be able to note slight differences in the illusions compared to the real thing, even if they are not able to determine what exactly is different. 4th Division Captain Retsu Unohana detected something was amiss with Aizen's fake corpse, even though she did not realize what it was until seeing Aizen alive.[73] The Reiatsu of Kyōka Suigetsu gives it away to those keen enough to sense its actual presence past the illusions created by its complete hypnosis.[233]


The sole way to escape the ability of Kyōka Suigetsu is to touch the blade itself before complete hypnosis is activated.[49]


Like Sennin of Logic said only Manna user can defeat certain Fate characters. If other verses dont used Mana, they cant defeat this Fate character. This rule works everywhere.

And for Aizen, the underline statement is Aizen rule.


Yeah, both sides have characters that can possibly challenge the other side...for Aizen-Sage mode eyes closed counter-Genjutsu him first counter.(his power is basically genjutsu...but Genjutsu can be applied multiple ways, not just through eye-sight)

Intel is key though...
 

Ansatsuken

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Yeah, both sides have characters that can possibly challenge the other side...for Aizen-Sage mode eyes closed counter-Genjutsu him first counter.(his power is basically genjutsu...but Genjutsu can be applied multiple ways, not just through eye-sight)

Intel is key though...

Yeah intel is key here. Hax is dangerous to managed without intel.
 

Sennin of Logic

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Actually Bleach HAX can be a factor on why this verse still can challenge NV.

Bleach character have good speed feats.

And for me speed + HAX is more dangerous than speed + DC.

What make Obito and Kaguya also Itachi dangerous? it was their Hax(Kamui, Tsukuyomi, Ash Bone, Totsuka) and not their DC.

Even in NV we agreed that Kamui is very HAX, god HAX.

Same also to Bleach verse. Barragan's respira, Aizen's Kyouka Sugetsu, Ichibei Hosubi's black ink and Yhwach is all HAX.

This some info about Aizen's Kyoka Sugetsu

Kyōka Suigetsu (鏡花水月, Mirror Flower, Water Moon): In its sealed form, it resembles a normal katana. The only decoration is the tsuba, which is a hexagon. The two sides parallel to the blade are long, whereas the four sides above and below the blade are shortened, making it into almost a diamond or prism-like shape. It has a green handle.
Shikai: The release command is "Shatter" (砕けろ, kudakero) and is used to both activate and deactivate it.[227]

-AizenShikai-

Aizen uses Kyōka Suigetsu.
Shikai Special Ability: The special ability of Kyōka Suigetsu is Kanzen Saimin (完全催眠, Complete Hypnosis).[228] It controls the five senses to the point where it can make the target misinterpret another person's form, shape, mass, feel, and smell to be an enemy's. The initiation condition for the hypnosis is to show the enemy the release of Kyōka Suigetsu. After seeing it just once, this person will completely succumb to the hypnosis. Afterwards, every time it is released, this person will fall under the thrall of the hypnosis. The hypnosis is long lasting; the Visored are still affected by Kyōka Suigetsu even though they were hypnotized at least 110 years ago. Because the spell works when one see the ritual, those who cannot see are consequently immune to the hypnosis.[229] When Aizen turns off the hypnosis by force of will, the image shown melts away or shatters. The complete hypnosis of Kyōka Suigetsu is absolutely flawless; even if the target is aware of being under the hypnosis, they cannot resist its influence.[230] The hypnotic abilities of Kyōka Suigetsu make it a highly useful tool in combat, for Aizen can create simple or complex illusions to deceive his opponents. For example, by creating a decoy of himself, or other illusions to distract his opponents, Aizen can hide his own movements and attack with impunity. His opponent will remain focused on the illusion until it is too late to react.[231][232] While the illusions Kyōka Suigetsu creates are quite powerful, those with considerable power and skill themselves may be able to note slight differences in the illusions compared to the real thing, even if they are not able to determine what exactly is different. 4th Division Captain Retsu Unohana detected something was amiss with Aizen's fake corpse, even though she did not realize what it was until seeing Aizen alive.[73] The Reiatsu of Kyōka Suigetsu gives it away to those keen enough to sense its actual presence past the illusions created by its complete hypnosis.[233]


The sole way to escape the ability of Kyōka Suigetsu is to touch the blade itself before complete hypnosis is activated.[49]


Like Sennin of Logic said only Manna user can defeat certain Fate characters. If other verses dont used Mana, they cant defeat this Fate character. This rule works everywhere.

And for Aizen, the underline statement is Aizen rule.


I appreciate the quote, but I brought up Fate because no one uses universe-only rules it multiverse match ups. It just means compatibility is not good, not that the universe is stronger.


Even in Bleach, straight-forward speed and DC is considered as valuable as hax, hence why Ichigo and Kenpachi are considered top-tiers.

In Aizen's case, his shikai only does what as standard 3T genjutsu does, but over a longer period of time. In fact, it's weaker given that the sharingan can brainwash someone to do an action, whereas Aizen can only muddle up perception. Aizen's shikai is unstoppable in Bleach after being used on his enemies most likely because no one has any resistance to illusions in that universe. To say that it'll have the same effect on a universe that deals with illusions of similar, or superior firepower is disregarding the resistance of the other universe. This is also like saying only physical, or natural energy attacks from other verses can do anything to anyone with JJ or RSM even in other universes because that's how NV works
 

Ansatsuken

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I appreciate the quote, but I brought up Fate because no one uses universe-only rules it multiverse match ups. It just means compatibility is not good, not that the universe is stronger.


Even in Bleach, straight-forward speed and DC is considered as valuable as hax, hence why Ichigo and Kenpachi are considered top-tiers.

In Aizen's case, his shikai only does what as standard 3T genjutsu does, but over a longer period of time. In fact, it's weaker given that the sharingan can brainwash someone to do an action, whereas Aizen can only muddle up perception. Aizen's shikai is unstoppable in Bleach after being used on his enemies most likely because no one has any resistance to illusions in that universe. To say that it'll have the same effect on a universe that deals with illusions of similar, or superior firepower is disregarding the resistance of the other universe. This is also like saying only physical, or natural energy attacks from other verses can do anything to anyone with JJ or RSM even in other universes because that's how NV works

Actually Kyoka Sugetsu is not an illusion but it control your 5 senses and perception. Victim still awared waht happen to them but they couldnt do anything.

Its like Virgo Shaka's Tenbu Horin

And I think it can work in any universe as this is not illusion but power to control the senses.

And you forgot this part---to escape it you must touch Aizen's sword. The rule established by Kubo.
 
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