Nobody's actually figured out Tobi's jutsu

[teetooktier]

I've seen a ton of Tobi S/T jutsu analysis threads today, and IMO people have been too easily impressed. Great, we kind of know why Tobi got hit. But the main part of what Kakashi figured out hasn't been determined yet. In the interest of solving this puzzle, I'm going to try and lay it out here in it's entirety, and hopefully we can have a discussion.

Here are the facts:

1. Tobi can become intangible. He is not simply sending his body away. If he were, then why is there a ghost left in his place that can think and move exactly as Tobi would? Nor is he sending away only the parts of his body that would get hit (Sakura was being an idiot). If he were, then Tobi could still hit people while intangible, and furthermore, he wouldn't be able to slip through attacks to his head as he wouldn't be able to function without a brain.

2. Tobi can send his body away, as well as other objects. He can then bring himself, then the objects back at any point he chooses.

3. One effect is causing both of these phenomena.

Here is the problem. For any proposal to be completely correct, it must answer ALL of these points.

1. What is the one effect?

2. How does this effect allow him to slip through attacks?

3. How does this effect allow Tobi to move around objects and himself?

Here are some important points to be considered while problem solving.

1. Why did the Rasengan and the kunai hit Tobi in places that neither were moving towards in the real world?

2. How did Tobi stop Kamui from decapitating Gedo Mazo without actually touching it?

3. Yes, fine, alright, why exactly did Tobi get hit?

So hopefully, we can all stop being proud of ourselves for having figured out so much and actually get to solving this problem.

 

[ElementNami92]

My question is if there has been a ton of tobi S/T threads today why make another?​

 

[gordo1]

His jutsu trasnports things to the same dimension as kamui, if not then how did the rasengan and kunai hit him while he was in the other dimension.

 

[HashiramaDescendant]

Tobi has acne... he won't take off his mask until the proactive kicks in.

 

[ThtOneGuy]

Tobi has acne... he won't take off his mask until the proactive kicks in.

lol

 

[Narutoverse]

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1. What is the one effect?
It was refering to Kakashi's ST and Tobi's ST being the same Jutsu
2. How does this effect allow him to slip through attacks?
3. How does this effect allow Tobi to move around objects and himself?

Spoiler

It has to be all from Tobi. It's not like he goes invisible. People describing him as a ghost would be a perfect description. I think he chooses to be in that state because he wants to fight and him leaving completely would prevent him from doing so.

This just in...

He can see what's happening in the real world in the "phased" state. If he FULLY went into his pocket dimension, he won't be able to tell what the hell is going on. It's to Tobi's benefit to be in this state.

This could explain why Tobi can only be in this state in 5 minutes because it's unnatural for a body to be on two different dimensions at the same time.

 

[Shadow Ninja]

So basically when tobi goes intangible his consciousness stays in the real dimension as a ghost like being, but his physical being is in the kumai dimension where it can still be harmed right.

 

[Shame]

Kakashi has not mastered the intangible ability of his ms yet this is true.

 

[teetooktier]

"My question is if there has been a ton of tobi S/T threads today why make another?"

None actually have Tobi's jutsu figured out.

"His jutsu trasnports things to the same dimension as kamui, if not then how did the rasengan and kunai hit him while he was in the other dimension."

This is why I made this thread: people are repeating this to themselves all day long without getting to the actual problem.

"1. What is the one effect?
It was refering to Kakashi's ST and Tobi's ST being the same Jutsu"

No. Kakashi was talking about Tobi going untouchable and him moving stuff around. Reread final page of this week's manga, should clear this up.
The rest of your response seems legit.

 

[Legendary Broly]

rep+, 5 stars and a thanks is in order

 

[Ciao]

Tobi's only jutsu too

 

[Beetle]

I think the intangibility part of his jutsu is like a partial transport into his other dimension. Something like it sends his physical body into the other dimension but leaves his consciousness and image in the real dimension. Sounds strange, but it would sorta explain why he needs to be tangible to absorb something. His physical body and chakra have to be present to import/export into the other dimension. So he could import his physical body to go intangible, then it exports back to his location when wants to go tangible.

As for Kakashi's kunai and Naruto's Rasengan going the wrong direction.. I'm guessing it has to do with Kamui. I think the chapter said it was "thrown" into the other dimension. So maybe the direction it is imported into the dimension can't be controlled with Kamui.

Just guessing here..

 

[Codex]

Here are the facts:

1. Tobi can become intangible. He is not simply sending his body away. If he were, then why is there a ghost left in his place that can think and move exactly as Tobi would? Nor is he sending away only the parts of his body that would get hit (Sakura was being an idiot). If he were, then Tobi could still hit people while intangible, and furthermore, he wouldn't be able to slip through attacks to his head as he wouldn't be able to function without a brain.

2. Tobi can send his body away, as well as other objects. He can then bring himself, then the objects back at any point he chooses.

3. One effect is causing both of these phenomena.

Here is the problem. For any proposal to be completely correct, it must answer ALL of these points.

1. What is the one effect?

2. How does this effect allow him to slip through attacks?

3. How does this effect allow Tobi to move around objects and himself?

Here are some important points to be considered while problem solving.

1. Why did the Rasengan and the kunai hit Tobi in places that neither were moving towards in the real world?

2. How did Tobi stop Kamui from decapitating Gedo Mazo without actually touching it?

3. Yes, fine, alright, why exactly did Tobi get hit?

Great thread. +rep.

I'm still pondering this myself, but I think might have an answer for Q1 (red), which is related to Sakura's idiotic comment
First, indeed, the partial transport concept sounds idiotic, for how can he transport part of his body while not severing that part from his tangible body? Kakashi ripped off Deidara's arm by transporting away part of his arm. Wouldn't the same principle apply to Tobi? On the other hand, you will notice that Tobi's mask was hit precisely where Naruto's arm was passing through.

Spoiler

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Moreover, Naruto's rasengan struck Tobi in the right arm, which Naruto just happened to be passing through here:

Spoiler

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In either case, the attacks strike body parts that must have been intangible the moment the attack landed (evidently a few fractions of a second after contact would have been made in the physical world, or enough time for Naruto to pass halfway through Tobi's body in the most recent attack). Is this a coincidence? Maybe, but probably not. If Tobi were fully intangible, then any spot on his body should be equally susceptible to damage, but this is seemingly not so.

I don't yet have answers for the other questions, but that's something to chew on.

EDIT: Also, Tobi's dimension appears to be quite large. Why, then, does Kakashi's Kamui trick yield an apparent 100% success rate? If I randomly transported a kunai to another dimension, and you happened to transport yourself to that dimension at that instant, I would expect only a small chance of hitting you. The success rate should vary inversely with the size (volume) of the alternate dimension.

 

[DrukenT]

only jutsu : o

 

[Higekage]

Ok, look here

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what we can see here is Kakashi uses Kamui on the kunai the exact same moment Naruto's arm is going through Tobi's head. So Tobi's head is the part that is intangible and the kunai which becomes intangible hits it

And when Tobi's hit by Rasengan I guess his arm was intagible at the same time as Rasengan

Hmm. It seems like the location in the real world of Tobi's intangible part and the intangible object used to hit him isn't the deciding factor if it's a hit but rather the time when two objects become intangible, or something

 

[teetooktier]

I think the intangibility part of his jutsu is like a partial transport into his other dimension. Something like it sends his physical body into the other dimension but leaves his consciousness and image in the real dimension. Sounds strange, but it would sorta explain why he needs to be tangible to absorb something. His physical body and chakra have to be present to import/export into the other dimension. So he could import his physical body to go intangible, then it exports back to his location when wants to go tangible.

As for Kakashi's kunai and Naruto's Rasengan going the wrong direction.. I'm guessing it has to do with Kamui. I think the chapter said it was "thrown" into the other dimension. So maybe the direction it is imported into the dimension can't be controlled with Kamui.

Just guessing here..

I can't accept the partial transport explanation because the floaty ghost thing makes no sense. Tobi's consciousness is tied to his brain; if it's not there, then neither is his consciousness. Rasengan and the kunai being randomly moved in the other dimension answers some questions, but as codex said, the odds of it are too low for this to be the complete truth.

Great thread. +rep.

I'm still pondering this myself, but I think might have an answer for Q1 (red), which is related to Sakura's idiotic comment
First, indeed, the partial transport concept sounds idiotic, for how can he transport part of his body while not severing that part from his tangible body? Kakashi ripped off Deidara's arm by transporting away part of his arm. Wouldn't the same principle apply to Tobi? On the other hand, you will notice that Tobi's mask was hit precisely where Naruto's arm was passing through.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Moreover, Naruto's rasengan struck Tobi in the right arm, which Naruto just happened to be passing through here:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

In either case, the attacks strike body parts that must have been intangible the moment the attack landed (evidently a few fractions of a second after contact would have been made in the physical world, or enough time for Naruto to pass halfway through Tobi's body in the most recent attack). Is this a coincidence? Maybe, but probably not. If Tobi were fully intangible, then any spot on his body should be equally susceptible to damage, but this is seemingly not so.

I don't yet have answers for the other questions, but that's something to chew on.

EDIT: Also, Tobi's dimension appears to be quite large. Why, then, does Kakashi's Kamui trick yield an apparent 100% success rate? If I randomly transported a kunai to another dimension, and you happened to transport yourself to that dimension at that instant, I would expect only a small chance of hitting you. The success rate should vary inversely with the size (volume) of the alternate dimension.

Good post, this gave me a lot to think about.

 

[Beetle]

I can't accept the partial transport explanation because the floaty ghost thing makes no sense. Tobi's consciousness is tied to his brain; if it's not there, then neither is his consciousness. Rasengan and the kunai being randomly moved in the other dimension answers some questions, but as codex said, the odds of it are too low for this to be the complete truth.

Well, if we consider that the Narutoverse allows for ninjas to do a mind-body switch and go into ghost mode (Dan).. I don't think having a consciousness without a brain is too nonsensical. But I do agree that Kishi will have a better explanation than a partial transport.

 

[Higekage]

I can't accept the partial transport explanation because the floaty ghost thing makes no sense. Tobi's consciousness is tied to his brain; if it's not there, then neither is his consciousness. Rasengan and the kunai being randomly moved in the other dimension answers some questions, but as codex said, the odds of it are too low for this to be the complete truth.

Well, Tobi's brain ISN'T there when you see say a kunai flying through his head, no matter how you look at it. When his head is in the other dimension, it's still working as if it's attached to his body and somehow he still knows where he is in the real world. It's not like actually severing his head from his body. If he didn't know from within the dimension where he is, how does he teleport? Think of it like going through a portal. If one half of you is in one side and the other half in the other side, you're still one body

I may be wrong and maybe teleporting away individual parts isn't what's happening. Think it's hard to know how it works completely as of yet but it should be fully explained soon

 

[teetooktier]

Well, Tobi's brain ISN'T there when you see say a kunai flying through his head, no matter how you look at it. When his head is in the other dimension, it's still working as if it's attached to his body and somehow he still knows where he is in the real world. It's not like actually severing his head from his body. If he didn't know from within the dimension where he is, how does he teleport? Think of it like going through a portal. If one half of you is in one side and the other half in the other side, you're still one body

I may be wrong and maybe teleporting away individual parts isn't what's happening. Think it's hard to know how it works completely as of yet but it should be fully explained soon

Codex has a better answer for this than I gave, if Tobi was sending away his body parts, there are times, especially concerning his fingers, where there would be nothing connecting them to the body, and they would fall off.