No one is RIGHT or WRONG! It is all a matter of perspective

[KingHashirama]

You have mistaken the Ideology of the Will of Fire and instead have made it into a Senju thing, which it is not.

Senju Ideology is Peace through LOVE

Uchiha Ideology is Peach through POWER.

Will of Fire and the Circle of Hatred are completely different. A person can have the will of fire and also Hatred.

Will of Fire is a ideology of the FIRST HOKAGE (not the whole senju clan) which he himself lived by, it is a ideology that says, " Every true shinobi must love, believe, cherish and fight for the village's sake, as previous generations had done before them." That my friend is the will of Fire.

The "Circle of Hatred" is basically me hating you , because you did something bad to me and then I do something bad to you , and then you hate me and that is passed on to our kids. That is the circle of Hatred.

Hatred is Wrong. If Mankind was to follow the Circle of Hatred we would be in wars or would've killed ourselves. But in the end the resolution to all that is Love.

Power leads to Hatred.

Love leads to Peace.

With Hatred there is no peace.


Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to make sure you get what the Will of Fire and the Circle of Hatred are. So therefore there is no "Which is stronger".

 

[shelke]

Completely off-topic, but for a bastion of peace and all things kind, Hashirama does quite live by the book. He started the enslavement of tailed-beasts for village power, and look what it erupted into? Nations fought over the Jinchurikis, committed acts of terrorism, and the vessels themselves were treated inhumanly. I think Kishi was on crack when he called Hasirama an epitome of goodness.

 

[The God of Wind]

Completely off-topic, but for a bastion of peace and all things kind, Hashirama does quite live by the book. He started the enslavement of tailed-beasts for village power, and look what it erupted into? Nations fought over the Jinchurikis, committed acts of terrorism, and the vessels themselves were treated inhumanly. I think Kishi was on crack when he called Hasirama an epitome of goodness.

That was the quickest answer at the time and all of that happened after Hashirama's death. Im sure those were not his intentions.

You have mistaken the Ideology of the Will of Fire and instead have made it into a Senju thing, which it is not.

Senju Ideology is Peace through LOVE

Uchiha Ideology is Peach through POWER.

Both those ideologies have changed with the times. The principles remain the same. The Uchiha's do not desire peace anymore, not Sasuke at least.

 

[KingHashirama]

Completely off-topic, but for a bastion of peace and all things kind, Hashirama does quite live by the book. He started the enslavement of tailed-beasts for village power, and look what it erupted into? Nations fought over the Jinchurikis, committed acts of terrorism, and the vessels themselves were treated inhumanly. I think Kishi was on crack when he called Hasirama an epitome of goodness.

Enslavement of the tailed beasts was started by Hashirama?? you sure?? Cause last time i checked it was the Sage who started it. And then he split them up in 2..

Hashirama sealed Kurama why? Because " Your power is too great, I cannot let you roam free any longer". The tailed beasts are inside Naruto.. why doesn't Naruto kill himself and let him out?? . And we still don't know Kurama's relationship between kurama and Mito.

Please know the complete details before putting blame on specific characters.

 

[shelke]

That was the quickest answer at the time and all of that happened after Hashirama's death. Im sure those were not his intentions.

Creating a jinchuriki as a weapon for village's superiority doesn't translate into goodness in my opinion.

 

[The God of Wind]

Creating a jinchuriki as a weapon for village's superiority doesn't translate into goodness in my opinion.

Balancing of power to keep the peace and keep the villages content. But people are greedy!

 

[shelke]

Enslavement of the tailed beasts was started by Hashirama?? you sure?? Cause last time i checked it was the Sage who started it. And then he split them up in 2..

Hashirama sealed Kurama why? Because " Your power is too great, I cannot let you roam free any longer". The tailed beasts are inside Naruto.. why doesn't Naruto kill himself and let him out?? . And we still don't know Kurama's relationship between kurama and Mito.

Please know the complete details before putting blame on specific characters.

I know about the details and was referring to Kurama. I think I assume that by now people should know what I am referring to without getting into gritty details. Hasirmama should have seen the prospect of weapons. He can't be that simple-minded. That doesn't even translate into good leadership quality.

 

[shelke]

Balancing of power to keep the peace and keep the villages content. But people are greedy!

That's precisely my point. People are greedy; it's in their nature. All he did was start a race for superiority among the villages as nine tails is the most powerful beast after all.

 

[KingHashirama]

I know about the details and was referring to Kurama. I think I assume that by now people should know what I am referring to without getting into gritty details. Hasirmama should have seen the prospect of weapons. He can't be that simple-minded. That doesn't even translate into good leadership quality.

And Danzo and Madara and Sarutobi are good leaders?? Hashirama Simple-minded?? joking aye lol.

You referred to Kurama.. and i referred to the Juubi.. Which the SO6P enslaved. Kurama was used to attack the village.. He had no other choice.

Hashirama did see those as prospect of weapons.. and thats why he concluded " Whenever you live , there will be war". He passed them out to equalize the countries.. so people like Danzo or Madara that live in the leaf village won't go corrupt and start pawning every other village. They were used to negotiate peace. But the other leaders had bad thinking just like Madara and then we have the Wars.

Your being Naive .. He is not responsible for the actions of others.

 

[The God of Wind]

That's precisely my point. People are greedy; it's in their nature. All he did was start a race for superiority among the villages as nine tails is the most powerful beast after all.

Well you cant blame Hashirama for that, he thought no one would need more.

 

[shelke]

And Danzo and Madara and Sarutobi are good leaders?? Hashirama Simple-minded?? joking aye lol.

You referred to Kurama.. and i referred to the Juubi.. Which the SO6P enslaved. Kurama was used to attack the village.. He had no other choice.

Hashirama did see those as prospect of weapons.. and thats why he concluded " Whenever you live , there will be war". He passed them out to equalize the countries.. so people like Danzo or Madara that live in the leaf village won't go corrupt and start pawning every other village. They were used to negotiate peace. But the other leaders had bad thinking just like Madara and then we have the Wars.

Your being Naive .. He is not responsible for the actions of others.

His own justification proves little. And your point that he isn't responsible for the repercussions of his own nation's actions is pretty funny. How on earth is the leader not responsible for the actions that befall the nation directly concerning his own decisions? I see naivety in your own post. A leader is solely responsible for the actions of his nation. He should think things through. So yes, a simple-minded man he was.

 

[shelke]

Well you cant blame Hashirama for that, he thought no one would need more.

Again, he should have seen both sides of the coin. Every decision has its pitfalls and positives.

 

[The God of Wind]

Again, he should have seen both sides of the coin. Every decision has its pitfalls and positives.

There was too much going on, he had to secure a future for Konoha at the time! Besides all this stuff started happening long after his death, I think.

 

[KingHashirama]

His own justification proves little. And your point that he isn't responsible for the repercussions of his own nation's actions is pretty funny. How on earth is the leader not responsible for the actions that befall the nation directly concerning his own decisions? I see naivety in your own post. A leader is solely responsible for the actions of his nation. He should think things through. So yes, a simple-minded man he was.

Dude, this is like saying, me and you are having a arguement and are fighting because of the guy who made the thread.. and you say its his fault for making the thread.. BUT NO. EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS.. If you are going to put blame on Hashirama.. Be smart and put it on SO6P.

Simple minded man who was the smartest guy during his time.. And what did his Nation do when he was alive?? Or when he died and his brother was encharge?? He is the guy ended the "Clan wars". He is not responsible for the actions of Sarutobi, Danzo, Madara, Other villages and the counsel.. and Obito, and Sasuke and Itachi.

 

[shelke]

There was too much going on, he had to secure a future for Konoha at the time! Besides all this stuff started happening long after his death, I think.

I think no one is understating my point here; a leader should think about all facets of his decision. How will my action effect the nation now, what will happen in the long run? These are the qualities of a good leader.

 

[KingHashirama]

I think no one is understating my point here; a leader should think about all facets of his decision. How will my action effect the nation now, what will happen in the long run? These are the qualities of a good leader.

And his actions led to a peace... It was not his actions that lead to Madara turning into a terrorist... or the other villages fighting over Tailedbeasts.

 

[shelke]

Dude, this is like saying, me and you are having a arguement and are fighting because of the guy who made the thread.. and you say its his fault for making the thread.. BUT NO. EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS.. If you are going to put blame on Hashirama.. Be smart and put it on SO6P.

Simple minded man who was the smartest guy during his time.. And what did his Nation do when he was alive?? Or when he died and his brother was encharge?? He is the guy ended the "Clan wars". He is not responsible for the actions of Sarutobi, Danzo, Madara, Other villages and the counsel.. and Obito, and Sasuke and Itachi.

Where did I say he was responsible for Madara's actions? Madara never accepted his leadership so this point doesn't even make any sense. You cannot equate our argument to a leader's decision. A leader is solely responsible for the repercussions of his decision. Think of it this way; Bush started a war on terror and now, a chain of terror is being triggered by USA themselves. Can you say Bush is not responsible for sparking the violence or giving incentive?

A leader has a grand responsibility for his nation. His decisions are not made for a few days or months but for decades upon decades. Everything he does effects his own nation and others. Hashirama was not a good leader. You may disagree, but I am sorry, your points don't seem convincing to me.

 

[shelke]

And his actions led to a peace... It was not his actions that lead to Madara turning into a terrorist... or the other villages fighting over Tailedbeasts.

I am sorry, why are you bringing Madara into this? As far as I can see, he was right in not trusting the senju clan. If you want to spark an argument here beyond Hasirmam's decisions then be my guest.

 

[KingHashirama]

Where did I say he was responsible for Madara's actions? Madara never accepted his leadership so this point doesn't even make any sense. You cannot equate our argument to a leader's decision. A leader is solely responsible for the repercussions of his decision. Think of it this way; Bush started a war on terror and now, a chain of terror is being triggered by USA themselves. Can you say Bush is not responsible for sparking the violence or giving incentive?

A leader has a grand responsibility for his nation. His decisions are not made for a few days or months but for decades upon decades. Everything he does effects his own nation and others. Hashirama was not a good leader. You may disagree, but I am sorry, your points don't seem convincing to me.

O M G. you said Bush = Hashirama.... O MY GOD. Hashirama the guy who stopped wars = the Guy who started a war? WTH!!

Leaders's decisions determine what kind of a leader he was. His people followed him..Bad leader would have to be Sarutobi when he came back to be Hokage, Or Danzo..

Again, you fail when you say It was Hashirama's fault for spreading the tailed beasts which caused a war.. Because it was the SO6P who decided to even split them up.

Manga says Hashirama was a good leader .. you say he wasn't. His decisions were made for Peace that would last. But decisions can be altered, I hope you do know that. Without Hashirama the ninja world would still be in war.

I am sorry, why are you bringing Madara into this? As far as I can see, he was right in not trusting the senju clan. If you want to spark an argument here beyond Hasirmam's decisions then be my guest.

Because your blaming Hashirama for the wars... Which Madara was a part of also.. Let me guess another who believes the Senju screwed up Uchiha.. And then thinks that Sarutobi is a senju .. Oh god help you.

 

[The God of Wind]

I think no one is understating my point here; a leader should think about all facets of his decision. How will my action effect the nation now, what will happen in the long run? These are the qualities of a good leader.

It was because of Hashirama that peace, although temporary, was established. Many lives were spared. His actions are what led to the Hidden Village system.

I agree, because of him, the other villages felt inferior and desired more power, but you cannot blame Hashirama and the Uchiha for being powerful, the man had done enough for his time.