never having parents vs having parents then losing them

which?


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Raekwon26

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What a fallacious statement.

In real life, having no love and only being hated by everyone always leads to the victim committing suicide because they know that they don't have anything to look forward to. Losing someone and being praised leads to one being reclusive for a good while, but eventually going back out into the world due to the encouragement and support.

In Kishimoto's manga, your premise holds true, though. xD Apparently, if you get one compliment after having negative contact for 12 years straight, you'll be just dandy. If you lose 3 family members you're close to, but are praised/talented, you'll ignore everyone and you even get a nice little genetics excuse to support all your angst. Lol

Very flawed and lacking any type of depth.
Sasuke was praised on his abilities, not his character or his personality.

You try and make it sound like all these people were showering Sasuke with love which is far form the truth.
 

Tennis Robot

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The real question should be, what's worse, losing your parents and being loved and worshipped by everyone, or never having parents and be hated and scorned by the world too.

Sometimes praise can hurt just as much as scorn. The loneliness is what's most important here.
 

Chie

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Very flawed and lacking any type of depth.
Sasuke was praised on his abilities, not his character or his personality.

You try and make it sound like all these people were showering Sasuke with love which is far form the truth.

No, just because someone doesn't praise Sasuke and agree 100% with your opinion does not mean that they're flawed. I guess you didn't detect the satire in my last post, either. Ah well.

@bold- Numerous characters stated that they liked his calm demeanor. This relates to his personality as a character.

@green- The village in general showered him with love and admiration on a sympathetic level. It's not their fault, that was the best they could do. Then, Kakashi tried to apply empathy regarding the revenge idea. Naruto attempted to be empathetic as well when regarding the problems with loneliness (something that is brought up even in latest chapters).

By the way, with the way this story has gone I don't really feel much sympathy for any character anymore. The majority of the cast has been given sob stories. It's redundant and plain now. I'm tired of most of the characters at this point... maybe even all of them. -Last lengthy post in thread-
 
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Tennis Robot

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No, just because someone doesn't praise Sasuke and agree 100% with your opinion does not mean that they're flawed. I guess you didn't detect the satire in my last post, either. Ah well.

@bold- Numerous characters stated that they liked his calm demeanor. This relates to his personality as a character.

@green- The village in general showered him with love and admiration on a sympathetic level. It's not their fault, that was the best they could do. Then, Kakashi tried to apply empathy regarding the revenge idea. Naruto attempted to be empathetic as well when regarding the problems with loneliness (something that is brought up even in latest chapters).

By the way, with the way this story has gone I don't really feel much sympathy for any character anymore. The majority of the cast has been given sob stories. It's redundant and plain now. I'm tired of most of the characters at this point... maybe even all of them. -Last post in thread-

Don't you think that's kind of the point? Everyone has a sob story. Some are held in different regard due to societal things (Sasuke being a victim of his brother's crime and Naruto housing the beast that took the 4th Hokage and nearly destroyed the village). I don't know how to put the next part into words. It has to do with how everyone else has a sad story too, and that just being the way that we are shaped by life. I couldn't even put the summary into words :/
 

TrollKing

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No, just because someone doesn't praise Sasuke and agree 100% with your opinion does not mean that they're flawed. I guess you didn't detect the satire in my last post, either. Ah well.

@bold- Numerous characters stated that they liked his calm demeanor. This relates to his personality as a character.

@green- The village in general showered him with love and admiration on a sympathetic level. It's not their fault, that was the best they could do. Then, Kakashi tried to apply empathy regarding the revenge idea. Naruto attempted to be empathetic as well when regarding the problems with loneliness (something that is brought up even in latest chapters).

By the way, with the way this story has gone I don't really feel much sympathy for any character anymore. The majority of the cast has been given sob stories. It's redundant and plain now. I'm tired of most of the characters at this point... maybe even all of them. -Last post in thread-

What a 6 year old psychopath needs is lot more than just "love" but psychological therapies for years

And his peers didn't shower him love, they were jealous of his talent
 

Vapid

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In Kishimoto's manga and relating past stories to the most simple recollection, your premise holds true, though. xD Apparently, if you get one compliment after having negative contact for 12 years straight, you'll be just dandy. If you lose 3 family members you're close to, but are praised/talented, you'll ignore everyone, be a world-class criminal, and you even get a nice little genetics excuse to support all your angst. Lol
Exactly. I rarely apply real world logic to the NV. In the NV, what I posted is correct.

On top of that, there's no emotional attachment, or rather loss, to never having had parents, compared to having had parents and not only losing them, but watching them get slaughtered by the big brother you idolized and loved first hand.
 

Sea Of Thy Soul

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Losing your parents.

I should know, cause my parents are dead.
 

Chie

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Don't you think that's kind of the point? Everyone has a sob story. Some are held in different regard due to societal things (Sasuke being a victim of his brother's crime and Naruto housing the beast that took the 4th Hokage and nearly destroyed the village). I don't know how to put the next part into words. It has to do with how everyone else has a sad story too, and that just being the way that we are shaped by life. I couldn't even put the summary into words :/

No, not everyone's been given a sob story. TenTen and Sakura come to mind. As do many others. Only the characters that the story revolve around the most have sob stories.

"Sasuke being a victim of his brother's crime and Naruto housing the beast that took the 4th Hokage and nearly destroyed the village"
^This statement was a little flawed and incorrect. :eww:

"that just being the way that we are shaped by life. I couldn't even put the summary into words "
^Yes, but at times consistency is needed in a story. That's something Kishimoto has lacked in his writing since the Pein arc.

What a 6 year old psychopath needs is lot more than just "love" but psychological therapies for years

And his peers didn't shower him love, they were jealous of his talent

Sasuke was 8 when he went through that. Not 6. But, if you wish to bash him and say he was a psycho when he had the perfect life, 2 years before the massacre, then who am I to judge?

No, they loved and admired him. You can be jealous of someone and admire/love them. People want to be with people they admire and think they have things they lack, after all.
 
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Tennis Robot

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No, not everyone's been given a sob story. TenTen and Sakura come to mind. As do many others. Only the characters that the story revolve around the most have sob stories.

"Sasuke being a victim of his brother's crime and Naruto housing the beast that took the 4th Hokage and nearly destroyed the village"
^This statement was flawed and incorrect. :eww:

"that just being the way that we are shaped by life. I couldn't even put the summary into words "
^Yes, but at times consistency is needed in a story. That's something Kishimoto has lacked in his writing since the Pein arc.

I didn't mean it like that. I'm sorry, I just have absolutely no clue how to explain my reasoning this time. :(

Everyone has a sob story. That's what makes us human.
 

shelke

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I don't have boobs, so I don't know how they would hurt if they bounce. I am not sure how this analogy even applies, but I always wanted to say this ...
 

Chie

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I didn't mean it like that. I'm sorry, I just have absolutely no clue how to explain my reasoning this time. :(

Everyone has a sob story. That's what makes us human.

lol, don't be sorry. It's cool. :) And I agree with the bold. Now, I get what you were trying to say. :happy:
 

TrollKing

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Sasuke was 8 when he went through that. Not 6. But, if you wish to bash him and say he was a psycho when he had the perfect life, 2 years before the massacre, then who am I to judge?

No, they loved and admired him. You can be jealous of someone and admire/love them. People want to be with people they admire and think they have things they lack, after all.

Sasky kun is a nutcase and is perfectly fine because no sane man can get out of that normal. Normal person would chase after cows than being nonsexual and full of hate

And admiration with jealousy is jealousy and deceptive. Again sasky is a psychopath. A psychopath doesnt give a crap about phony people. The psychopath want to destroy and not be around those people. That is exactly who sasky is
 
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Darth Uchiha

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Sometimes praise can hurt just as much as scorn. The loneliness is what's most important here.

Um, no, no it doesn't. As someone who's faced an extreme amount of scorn for a lot of his life, I'm frankly offended you'd say the two are connected in such a way. Sasuke chose to distance people, and, as he descended to madness, brought on his own suffering.
 

lanakui8

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This is impossible to judge. Some people have parents that abuse them, some have parents that are never there, and then some have loving families that put their children above themselves.

Even if we say by default, itʻs having parents that love you more than they love themselves and losing them, people can take it different ways. Some people can get angry at the world, some will still be strong since they know that their parents loved them and have that as their foundation.

So I really canʻt say which would be objectively harder, even if we set all situations equal since the people in these situations arenʻt going to be all equal.


At best, you can try to put different people in these situations and say which would be harder for X person to deal with, and how does it compare to how Y person deals with it, not that one situation is going to be objectively harder to deal with than the other.
 

Tennis Robot

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Um, no, no it doesn't. As someone who's faced an extreme amount of scorn for a lot of his life, I'm frankly offended you'd say the two are connected in such a way. Sasuke chose to distance people, and, as he descended to madness, brought on his own suffering.

It isn't until you've known both that you can make that decision with a clear mind. I wouldn't have said it if I wasn't certain that it were true. I can elaborate if you really want me to (I hope you don't).
 

TrollKing

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Um, no, no it doesn't. As someone who's faced an extreme amount of scorn for a lot of his life, I'm frankly offended you'd say the two are connected in such a way. Sasuke chose to distance people, and, as he descended to madness, brought on his own suffering.

You are normal I supposed?! Sasky is a complete nutcase. A psychopath can't really choose nor make right decisions
 

KilluaZoldyck

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Just my two cents.

It doesn't really matter if people praised or admired Sasuke, and it shouldn't be a determinant to downplay his suffering or be unsympathetic to his character. Who cares if a bunch of strangers said he was cool? Who cares if some nobody was willing to "help" him? Those usually are empty words lacking any sincerity or depth. Loneliness doesn't have to do with how many people surround you or how loved you are. You can still feel lonely with a group of people, even friends who you are close to. He was robbed of the people he loved the most at a young age, all by the hands of one of those people. Having something so genuine stripped away from you can make it seem like everything else is a caricature of the real thing you once experienced. And tbh, I never got the vibe that Konoha would be there for Sasuke or really cared much about him. As for the people he knew, they were always guilt-tripping him by telling him he shouldn't feel this way or shouldn't be angry or shouldn't seek revenge when it's perfectly understandable why he held those spiteful emotions. Of course, further along the manga, in Part 2, most of Sasuke's actions were his own, and he ultimately chose the path of darkness and loneliness when he had different avenues to choose from. So we can't really try to justify his actions there.

OT: You shouldn't compare the two. Circumstances, the strength of someone's character, and other factors must be taken in account. One may seem worse than the other, but we can't have our subjective views and life experiences write one answer as fact. Measuring and comparing the suffering of one to that of another seems cruel and irrational.
 
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Darth Uchiha

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It isn't until you've known both that you can make that decision with a clear mind. I wouldn't have said it if I wasn't certain that it were true. I can elaborate if you really want me to (I hope you don't).

Yeah, I've experienced both, and, I'd have to be totally insane to think that praise made me feel bad, hell, it's the fact that I got some praise and respect occasionally that I'm still alive to comment here.
 
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