First of all, when Naruto was introduced into the series, his ideals is all about "Hard work" by proving everyone he could climb up to become the Hokage so that he could be acknowledge by some people that looks down on him by his "Own Hand". His Ninja way never goes back his word once he makes up his mind, he's always strives to be the best by his Guts and Sheer Luck.
Take a look at the example with Naruto Vs Neji : When Naruto was struggling a match with his opponent, Neji stated that you cannot change your destiny," Once a failure always a failure" .
Naruto was unwillingly accept his ideology that was bound inescapable fate, Naruto went on defeat Neji by proving that you can change destiny.
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Now Naruto ends up being some child of destiny/prophecy. After everything Naruto went through about making your own destiny and not letting yourself be controlled by fate, it turns out that Naruto himself is someone automatically“destined for greatness”. Not only that, he is the son of one of the most powerful shinobi in his village’s history.
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Neji was totally and absolute right, Naruto was always destined to be the "Chosen Savior". Naruto is reincarnated Sage of the 6th Path Bloodline. Having Naruto destined to be the ninja messiah removed a lot of the things that was built on in this series like at this point, Naruto doesn't fail in at least one aspect.
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There's no conflict within this character which is a damn shame when you take look at everyone else, They were portrayed as people who failed as Shinobi.
Just like his recent fight with Obito when Naruto stated that you can't take "Shortcuts" yet he was self contradicted when he's getting all these constant powerups he's getting that automatically destined to become the "Chosen Prophecy".
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This completely backfired his character because Hardwork is not about taking "Shortcuts"
This chapter alone proves from what Hagoromo said, that the chosen propecy has come to change the world and that Naruto is Ashura Successor while sasuke is Indra successor and because of that, their ideology always destined to fight
Destiny is tricky.
The thing is, Naruto didn't become the child of prophecy because it was his destiny from the start. He worked hard for the power he has. only a few things were actually given to him. All his Power-ups were gained through hard work.
Neji was proven wrong in the same fight he preached all that shit about destiny
''Your destiny is to lose to me,there is no doubt'',Neji Hyuuga to Naruto
Loses to Naruto.
Correct my ass.
Destiny is tricky.
The thing is, Naruto didn't become the child of prophecy because it was his destiny from the start. He worked hard for the power he has. only a few things were actually given to him. All his Power-ups were gained through hard work.
That was wrong, Naruto goals from the very start wanted to become a Hokage but later on he was automatically destined . Naruto may obtain the "Power of Greatness" through Hardwork, but lets take it one way. Right now Naruto is relying the Ninetails way too much, he hasn't shown much of his feats because from the way I look at it, Naruto doesn't seem to be the underdog he once were. Sure you could use Ninetails only to some certain extent.
When you put it that way (separating "destiny" and "prophecy"), you could be said to be correct, but the problem is that the two tend to be intertwined with one another.
For all we know, the prophecy of Naruto being the "Child of Prophecy" centers around breaking that cycle, meaning he is destined to "end the cycle of hatred" between Ashura and Indra's descendants, and all this stuff with the Juubi and Madara is just the catalyst for that development.
That why Neji is my fav male character. He stated a fact and learned to live with what time he had and make the most of it in a way his father would be proud.
And I also like Sakura and Lee because they showed hard work pays off without super powers.
Well, in the case of Lee/Gai/Dai, it is shown that hard work can reward one with great power, but there is a limit. We are seeing a taijutsu specialist dominating right now, but he is going to die soon. It cost him his life to injure someone like Madara. As for Sakura, she was kind of talented. She had the best chakra control of the k11 and was the smartest student of them at the academy iirc. Plus she trained under Tsunade. And, knowing Kishi, she'll probably be given some sort of powerful shit soon lol
This. You CAN change your Destiny, thats the whole point.
Destiny is merely a potential future, the choices we make and our will power shapes it. Naruto would not have fullfilled his Destiny if he didnt work so hard.
Please by all means enlighten me how naruto just got all his power ups and everything he has, just because he was ashuras chakra reincarnation. Just because he was the chosen one.
OOOOOOHHHHH WAIT. HE was a fluke. A useless ninja. A failure. Friendless. A outcast. Yet he still managed to become a success. Have tons of friends. ETC.
Naruto has not awakened any power throughout the series. He hasnt gotten mokuton or anything, that stems from "ashuras chakra"
Naruto is not a success because he is the child of prophecy. Because he is ashuras reincarnation(still unclear whether he is actually reincarnated, or just the chakra)
He is the child of prophecy and ashuras reincarnation, because of his success.
The only bloodline related thing, naruto has even done really, is survive bijuu extraction for a long enough period of time to be revived.
Nejis version of destiny, was that no matter what choice you make, you cannot escape your destiny. That your destiny is always set in stone.
If his version were indeed 100% correct, then naruto would still be weak, or dead. Naruto had choices. He couldve chosen no, but didnt.
Imagine you are craveing a strawberry ice cream scoop. You get with a friend and you order the strawberry.
Your friend knowing you wanted strawberry timetravels, and then before you say you want strawberry, he finishs your sentence for you.
Just because he knew what you were going to choose, does not take the factor of choice out. You may be craving strawberry, but because you hated when people finish your sentences, you say "No I want the chocolate"
I can predict that hawaiis football team will win the superbowl next year. Or that iran will win the world cup.
Just because I predicted it, does not take away from the underdogs, working hard and winnning. Just because the teams had potential talent, does not take away from the accomplishments they did.
I may have the potential to run faster than usain bolt. But if i dont work hard, or if i just choose never to run competitively, it wouldnt matter.
Naruto had the choice to do the things he did. He just so happened to choose the predicted destiny.
Naruto did not work hard and struggle because he was the chosen one. He is the chosen one, because he worked hard and struggled.
this
I never really got the whole Naruto Hardwork thing. Maybe it's just me but I just didn't see it. I saw him train, but definitely not as hard as others. I saw him utilize his god given genes and birthright chakra levels to learn a fuuton ability in genius level time when it would have taken someone else multiple years. I saw him train hard for Sage mode, but even then, how long did it take for him to master it? I might be wrong but it seemed like some days ??? , when Jiraya took Years and still couldn't master it..
HardWork? I wouldn't go so far. Sure he has trained, but his genes and naturally high chakra reserves put him at an advantage over many shinobi. And though he may not grasp concepts as fast as Sasuke or Kakashi. He always somehow ends up learning it faster than the average ninja anyway
The only real Hardwoker in this show is Lee, who had to do thousands of pushups etc etc to even become relevant. It's too bad kishi ditched the whole Hardwork beats Genius theme in part 2 . Then it became who has the better genetics or descended from moon bunnies
Omg I don't think he killed neji for asilly reason like that cause the resin was neji chose his destiny like his father to sacrifice himself for his friends
Prophecy is knowing what will happen, not making it happen.
Naruto was foretold to be the child of destiny, but it doesn't mean he was guaranteed that position. We have free will, and once knowing he was destined, if he had stopped he might not of been the one, and the cycle would have started aknew.
So Prophecy is foretelling what will be, IF the person in said prophecy lives up to what he is called to do. Its out right silly to say somone didn't work for it, when we can clearly see he did. If he didn't train he would not have gotten better through osmosis... thats just silly
Because Naruto still have worked very hard through the entire manga, only getting recently profits of this hard and harsh trening.
The only thing Kishi changed is that WITH NO TALENT you can be strong to YOU HAVE TO HAVE HIDDEN TALENT to be awake it through hard training, not giving up and meeting friends, creating bonds so your power will bloom.
Hateras can hate how much they can, because now you can accuse Kishi for destroying his theme stated before with someone with NO talent becoming strong, However it it can be read in wrong way and maybe kishi's message could be:
"Everyone has hidden potential, even if small" -> that why even none genious can become strong/intelligent if he/she put alot of efforts in to awake /use this hidden potential.
EDIT: Besides, About destiny I imagine it as There was set up path for Naruto based on taking certain choices in his life. These choices to events in his life could be called perfect choices, but Same as we humans, Naruto also has free will and right to decide for himself so he can make wrong choices and go away from from destined way. In other words while he was special from the birth, it was not certain, maybe even unlikely for Naruto to reach greatness due to very hard events in his life affecting his mind and body to go away from the right path.
Naruto could've easily given up, and he'd still be crying on that swing. And even though he's Ashura's reincarnation he worked hard to get to where he is now, just like Ashura did.
Yes and no like in Greek mythology there are many gods however a lot are useless. Its no good being born with brilliant powers or huge chakr you have to train and work hard to make use of your potential it doesn't just automatically go up. I'll use myself as an example I'm built like an american football player however its all natural I didn't work for it, now yes I am strong however I am quite unmotivated and lazy and do not strengthen my body. I'm stronger than your average Joe but how well would I do against someone who trains regularly strength wise? However if I did work out even causally I can guarantee I would be at least twice as strong. So I get where you are coming from but hard work is a prevalent theme in this manga and the latest chapters should prove it just look at Gai sensei
You can't change your destiny. You can't change your fate. No matter how much you work and train, if you are already destined to be strong, then that effort is simply useless as you are already granted incredible strength from jump street. The reason why Kage are Kage is because they were destined to become hokage. You cannot just become Hokage by just wishing for it. It has to come natural and that is clearly what Neji was talking about.
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Lee and Naruto are very funny characters. Lee, a hardworking individual who believes that hardwork and training will amount for success over the gifted genius, and Naruto believes that people can simply change their destiny.
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The prophecy of the great lord elder even noted how Naruto was chosen to bring about great change to the ninja world with his Kyuubi power if he learned to control it properly. Naruto, who was already destined to be the child of prophecy and born into the Uzumaki clan, talks about hardwork and effort, but this can all be declined because Naruto was already born to be a strong person and it was his destiny to fight a strong Uchiha with powerful eyes (Sasuke). That was his destiny from the beginning.
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It's funny how this guy can talk about changing your destiny when in fact this guy was gifted with a large chakra pool + the Kyuubi's enhanced chakra and being a strong individual to change the ninja world. After Naruto was destined to be the savior, all of his words about hardowork and determination have been nullified.
Then we come to the recent chapters, which state that Naruto and Sasuke are reincarnations of Ashura and Indra. This right here, is proof enough that Naruto and Sasuke do not need hardwork to be strong as they were already chosen to be strong from the beginning.
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It's clear that these two individuals were destined choosers to be strong individuals of past entities. The very definition of hardwork and effort is useless when you are already the reincarnations of two of the strongest people to ever exist in the Narutoverse.
This series has completely moved from that hardworking individual who trains and tries to get stronger (Lee) over the genius who was born with talent (Neji)<-------------that notion has completely been destroyed as powers, destinies and generations of past members have completely overthrown this theme into the wind.
Knowing this base, I will probably get some hate, but this is how I feel.
Yeah man i feel ya. This series had take a huge u-turn from hardworking crap to destiny crap. Maybe this was the reason kishi killed neji. Jus so he would be there to say "told ys motherf***er" to naruto after his meeting with sage n knowing his destiny.
