Neji vs Tsunade

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Tsunade

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Chatte

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DemonicAvenger said:
somebody put up an argument for Tsunade. I can see neji taking this
Click to expand...

Repeating myself from another thread. And since you asked for Tsunade argument...Here it is.

Many are quick to disregard Tsunade's combat skills simply because she doesn't seem as quick and precise as other combatants such as Gai and Lee. While this might be true, it does not necessarily make her any less dangerous in combat.

These sorts of comparisons often lead to her underestimation due to the fact that most people do not realise that Tsunade utilises a different style in combat, one that is not as reliant upon her speed and precision of attacks. This style takes full advantage of the traits that set her apart from most others, which in concert can make her more or equally as dangerous a close-quarters combatant as any other high tier ninja.

First of all, whilst Tsunade may not be very fast, she is certainly not slow.
She has shown the ability to blitz an opponent who according to the databook possesses more speed than herself (so that's why I always wondered why the databook put her speed lesser than it's showed in the manga). Furthermore, it should be noted that Shunshin no Jutsu (Body Flicker Technique) is classified as ninjutsu and therefore may be partially - if not wholly - excluded from a databook speed statistic.

Tsunade herself has shown impressive Shunshin range, reaching Pain's location in the centre of Konoha's ruins in mere moments.

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She was presumably able to keep up with A, a ninja of purportedly great speed even without his Raiton shroud and surprised two highly reflexive ninja in doing so.

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I must state, however, that speed alone is not the only factor that may be important during a combat situation. Do not get me wrong, it is undeniably important in most situations, but there are other factors that can come into play during close-combat. Many of these other factors are more or less tantamount to Tsunade's fighting style, and can even give her the edge she needs to fight on par with - if not best - faster opponents.

Let's take a look at her strenght.

Tsunade indisputably has some of the best strength feats in the entire manga, matched only by few. A single Tsūtenkyaku to the ground can cause an earth-shattering quake, resulting in an enormous crater.

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IMG]http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb62/chatte_anger/Naruto/Tsunade58_zps7505d853.jpg[/IMG]

And even a strike from a single finger can rip the ground apart to create a sizeable fissure.

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Tsunade's most impressive strength feat, however, comes from her lifting of Gamabunta's several tonne tantō hundreds of metres into the air, and the speed and dexterity at which she manoeuvred it about.

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The enormous amount of upper body strength that would have been required to execute such a feat suggests that Tsunade's striking force may potentially be far more destructive than ever shown on-panel.

Orochimaru himself - a ninja who has fought alongside Tsunade for decades, making him somewhat of an expert regarding the full extent of her strength - tells Kabuto that a single blow from Tsunade can kill.

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Not only does Orochimaru have little incentive to lie, but he makes this statement whilst fully aware of Kabuto's self-healing ability In'yu Shōmetsu.

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Statement of Orochimaru, which in turn speaks volumes for Tsunade's strength. Even against highly defensive opponents, Tsunade's strength can potentially cause a great deal of blunt force trauma, which can lead to concussion and internal injury.

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(we know that Orochimaru was lucky not to get killed thanks to his jutsu ability of changing bodies, but after his second body, if he would've received a second blow, he would've been dead, that's why he retired from the battle.

Now before you jump in and ask "what is the use of high strength when she won't have the speed to hit anybody?", hear me out first.

Less strength-focused fighters, such as Rock Lee in base mode, need to land full hits if they wish to deal any significant form of damage to their opponents. Partial hits would essentially have little-to-no effect upon foes, and only serve to waste precious energy and chakra. Thus, their speed and accuracy is crucial to their fighting styles. Close-quarters combatants like Lee need the speed to be able to get close enough to opponents and position themselves appropriately to allow themselves the opportunity to land full and proper hits.
The other close-quarter combatant that needs to get close enough in order to attack his opponents is Neji, as we all know.

Tsunade with her superhuman strength, on the other hand, need not follow this rule. She does not need to get so close to an opponent, or attack so fast and accurately, to maximise her chances of landing a full hit. All she needs is enough speed to get herself in a position to land a partial hit. Why? Because even a partial hit from her can deal incredible amounts of damage. Glancing blows and the like can all cause grievous harm thanks to her strength; if a single finger from Tsunade can split the ground apart, I shudder to think of how much damage she could inflict by merely grazing an opponent. Furthermore, the sheer force of a partial hit can easily throw an enemy off balance, leaving them open to a followup attack - one that will most likely result in a full hit.

It is strongly implied that much of Tsunade's strength stems from the use of chakra; that is, by concentrating maximum amounts of it in specific areas of her body.

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We already know that the bottom of the feet is the most difficult area for ninja to gather chakra.

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and given that Tsunade has already shown exceptional strength and chakra release from her feet

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not to mention her unparalleled chakra control, it follows that she should be able to exert this strength from almost any part of the body that coincides with her Keirakukei.

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From this perspective, every inch of Tsunade's body is a weapon, which can only improve her chances of landing a partial or full hit.

Tsunade's strength can also be used to throw enemies off balance, disrupting their rhythm and potentially creating openings for herself. It is certainly not out-of-character for Tsunade to destroy the terrain in attempts to throw enemies off.

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and we know that - despite the role chakra may play in everyday ninja movement - terrain effects can still cause ninja to lose their balance.

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It should be noted that even when Tsunade does not try to throw enemies off, she may inadvertently do so anyway; when her attacks miss, if she follows through with her swing she can destroy the terrain around her, creating fissures, mini-earthquakes and whatnot. Particularly powerful hits from Tsunade can create shock waves, which may also serve to disrupt enemy movement.

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One might even suggest that terrain effects are well-suited for combating swifter opponents, who focus more on speed rather than careful footing or maintaining a firm grounding.

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For instance, should Tsunade attempt to create a fissure beneath Neji, staying put would result in a debilitating fall.

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leaving him vulnerable to a followup attack, but at the same time jumping could also result in an exploitable opening, à la Sasuke vs. Itachi.

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Notice how one had the advantage of the terrain was able to land a blow over the other one.
The act of jumping can prove surprisingly precarious for ninja, due to the inability to a dodge in midair (barring flight) and the rather predictable ascent and descent movement pattern.

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Particularly in situations where enemies have positioned themselves upon some kind of physical structure, Tsunade can essentially force her foes into a catch, in which they must choose either to stay and risk losing their balance or jump and risk becoming open to attack.

Following on from this point, it is equally possible for Tsunade to use her strength to cause shrapnel-like damage. Stray blows may inadvertently destroy the terrain, with the sheer force of impact capable of sending pieces of terrain and debris flying in all directions at high speeds.

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Lastly, many people overlook the advantage Tsunade may have in combat against enemies who initially possess no knowledge of her superhuman strength. In close-quarters, some may have a preference for blocking or parrying incoming hits. Irrefutably, an attempt to block a full-powered punch from Tsunade would result in broken bones and grievous injury for her opponent - perhaps even death.
Moreover, it should be noted that some taijutsu manoeuvres may not work against Tsunade simply by merit of her upper body strength; Tsunade can easily overwhelm opponents who attempt grapple-tactics on her, and can send opponents flying should they attempt taijutsu manoeuvres such as leg-binds.

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Most of the people here would state that Neji's taijutsu is better than Tsunade's, although she is one of the Legendary Three Ninja who is praised not only for her high level in medical ninjutsu (sure, that doesn't mean that we should downgrade Neji). Even Akatsuki members were praising them, and one of them was Kisame which was Itachi's companion in Akatsuki.

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As we can see, Kisame here referrs not only at Jiraya himself, he adresses to him as "one of the Legendary Three Ninjas"

Most of the people are fooled to think that Tsunade's taijutsu is not that good because every since she has been introduced she had a little screen-time in regards to fighting skills.
When she was shown fighting Kabuto and later Orochimaru, after she hadn't been in the ninja world for years, but people always tend to forget that thought it's implied that practice makes perfect.

That's why, most of the people are fooled to think that Tsunade's mission and war experience merely consists of non-combat, medical support roles and that's it. She didn't become feared around the world as one of the Legendary Sannin simply for being a healer; furthermore she is famous not only for her unbeatable medical skills (even Orochimaru has shown envy on her medical abilities) but also her strength and unbending will.

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This clearly suggests that combat-wise - specifically her type of combat techniques - were prominent during the years she spent out in the field earning a reputation for herself.

Jiraya himself, being her teammate for years, praised her more than none other because both her medical and combat skills, that her techniques weren't able to be acquired by anyone. Even Naruto Wiki (the one people seem to trust a lot) states that Tsunade used her superhuman strength in battles in order to scare away the enemies so that she could heal her comrades with no problem.

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Nonetheless, we can conclude that her combat skills were of great importance during the wars.
Shikaku Nara, Konoha's High Jōnin Commander, praises her for her strength rather than her medical skills. So once again we see that Tsunade was not renown only for her medical skills.

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According to the databook, Tsunade possesses a maximum of 5 out of 5 for taijutsu skill (one of the components of her combat style). Once again, this should come as no surprise, given what we have seen of her.

Tsunade has proven herself capable of reacting to attacks in which she has had little-to-no forewarning/showing vulnerability.

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With the latter dodge against Kabuto's underground attack showcasing her ability to avoid hits whilst in the same time she positions herself appropriately for an efficient counter-attack.
Not only that, but as well, she has shown that she can manoeuvre herself about and fight in awkward positions with apparent ease.

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Not only that but also counter-attacking at the same time and as well even Shunshin (Pathway Derangement) - behind attack.

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Another thing concerning Tsunade, we have seen that she can move and attack from inconvenient starting positions very fast and with surprising mobility (and all this in highly injured state, imagine in a safe state).

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Another thing concerning Tsunade's taijutsu combat-skills is the fact that she knows very well how to take advantage on terrain alteration. She is very aware of her surroundings and the way she can use them to best suit her.

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So in the time Neji would fight her, he wouldn't have to worry only about himself, he would have to worry as well about his surroundings as they can be used by Tsunade.

Another feat when it comes to her taijutsu skills, is the fact that she has shown remarkable dexterity in the heat of combat, although at the beginning she seemed vulnerable, and used 3 feats in one: 1. dexterity, 2. medical ninjutsu, 3. unnoticeable moves by being able to steal Naruto's wallet (without him even observing that) while performing the other two moves, plus she was handling in the same time while hitting Naruto's pressure points, a kunai.

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And we have to keep in mind that all these feats were performing while we were seeing a drunk, a tired out, rusty Tsunade.
As Jiraya says, Tsunade hand't slept for very long.

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People easily discard Tsunade's taijutsu, as in their mind, it has to be "speed plus lethality of attacks" (while I agree that lethality is an important factor, speed might not always be) , but in practice, I think it's much more than that, experience accumulated along the years matters as well.

We will examine some examples where speed and lethality are more or less equal, in order to highlight the fact that differences in taijutsu skill and experience are the main reason why one ninja can have the upper hand over the other one, in our case, Tsunade over Neji.

1. Sasuke & Danzo

Sasuke & Danzo. During their battle, there was no apparent discrepancy in speed between the two (though, as we all have seen, speed feats were in favor of Sasuke) , and Sasuke even possessed the range advantage with his sword.
However, Danzō was able to land the first hit against Sasuke.

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This happened most likely due to superior taijutsu and battle experience. Note how Danzo's Sharingan at that time was off, this was purely hand-to-hand combat.

2. Kakashi and Sasuke

During Kakashi's battle with Sasuke, their speed was less or more equal, yet during their hand-to-hand combat it was Kakashi that landed the hit.

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It is not as if Sasuke had been too slow to react to the kick, since he didn't appear surprised by it and was even able to block it, it seems as though Kakashi's timing and combat intuition was superior to Sasuke's here given his combat experience. His ability to know exactly what taijutsu manoeuvre to use and when allowed him to land the first hit.

3. Sasuke and Itachi

During Sasuke's battle with Itachi, their speeds were more or less equal, and Sasuke with his sword, once again, had the range advantage against his brother. However, during their close-combat battle, it is Itachi who manages to land the first hit against Sasuke.

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Once again, it is shown to us that Itachi's superior timing of attacks and his choice of which taijutsu manoeuvre to use gained throughout his combat experience.

So, these three examples of how taijutsu combat skills combined with battle experience can give one ninja the advantage over the other one. Without a doubt, Tsunade's taijutsu skill is representative of her ability to perceive openings, take advantage of them, and use the right taijutsu manoeuvres to match the situation as we've seen throughout the given examples.

Now some, will bring-up the fact that Neji can somewhat read her movements via Byakugan. Still, as we've seen, even though Byakugan sees the movements, the body it's not necessarily responding, but being Neji, you might say he'll use Rotation, true but as we've seen Sasuke wasn't able to keep up with up with Lee, though he had Sharingan. You'll say that Lee did that with speed.
Nothing more correct than that either.
But what's different in Tsunade's ways and the others, is the fact that she can use her surroundings as well, and that, Neji can see, but doesn't mean h e can do something about it. He won't guess how she'll use the surroundings in her favour, just the movements she'll do.

Another component that Tsunade uses in her taijutsu, is, as we all know, her evasive skills.

When I say evasion here, I am not referring necessarily to the ability to react quickly to an attack (though it was shown that she can do that as well). I am referring to the ability to anticipate an attack and react accordingly. Many do not know the difference.

The former requires high speed and reaction time. As we've seen throughout the manga, Tsunade has those as well.
Now regarding her speed, let me clear out that as well.

Why most of people call her slow is because:

1. Madara's statement: She's stronger than the Raikage, but slower. Slower than the Raikage doesn't make her the slowest. Please be careful at the comparison terms. I would advise you to look further into those rules.
Plus, it's a one piece comparison, not mass comparison. Madara didn't called her slower than the entire Shinobi World, he called her slower than one character, Raikage.

2: Her summon, Katsuyu. If Katsuyu is a slug, and slugs are known to be slow, that doesn't make Tsunade slow. Don't misinterpret Tsunade's Summon with Tsunade's character.

3: Just because she chooses to take the attacks, it doesn't make her slow. Her intention is clear: she is the one who wants to take that attack, being self-aware of her tanking ability.
Most of you don't even know what's Tsunade's primary ability. Because you hate Sakura, didn't even looked into Tsunade's feats, as Tsunade's learning Sakura what she uses in battle.
Tsunade's primary skill is evasive skills:

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Now, what do we get from here?

When you face an opponents attack evasion comes first!

Evading an attack requires high speed and reaction time. Therefore, we can safely assume she is fast enough as her primary skills is evasion.


Now, let us see some examples where Tsunade was able to show her speed feats.

1. In the battle with Kabuto, even though she hasn't been fighting over a big period of time (so we're talking about a rusty Tsunade), she was able to keep it up with Kabuto, who at that time was compared with Kakashi, but not forget that first he took Hyourougan. Those are soldier pills who are known for enhancing all your senses (this includes speed as well). So having all his senses increased, Tsunade who, as I've specified, hadn't fought for years, was able to evade his attacks and respond with an attack in the same time as she manoeuvres her body placed in weird positions, and all that with ease.

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Not to mention that from Tanzaku castle up to the Sannin batterfield, Tsunade managed to follow Orochimaru and Kabuto and in the same time she destroyed everything in her path.

2. In the same highly injured state, Tsunade was able to outrun Orochimaru (who in his snake form as we've seen is very fast and he was even able to outrun a 4 tails Naruto) in order to protect Naruto from being impaled with the Kusanagi sword:

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3. As well as after being impaled herself with the sword, she was able to move fast enough once again to protect Naruto, when not even Jiraya himself was able to do the hand seals.

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And before starting to release her seal, she punched Orochimaru. That requires reaction speed and speed itself as well.

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4. She was able to keep it up on the same pair with Manda. Actually, I would comment that a bit faster since she pin-pointed his location and calculated his attack direction and was able to stab him with Gamabunta's sword.
So here not only a feat as a speed but also reaction-time.

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Not to mention that Manda has the advantage of shape.

And right-away after she dealt with Manda, she switched to Orochimaru, who was trying to attack her, in an instance:

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5. Another example of her being fast is the Pein arc. In an considerably injured state, she was able to outrun a ANBU in great shape. And not only that, but we must consider the area she faced with. We clearly see here as well her reaction speed as she already has her hand in a fist while one of the Pein paths was already preparing to attack her.

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6. The last, but not the least, as we all know is the example of Tsunade being able to move even faster than Mei was able to do the hand seals for countering Madara's technique. Mei barely said "Suiton" and Tsunade was already there and tanked 3 Yasaka Magatamas.

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Now the latter comment made by me regarding her evasion skills, simply requires a great deal of experience and knowledge, in line with comments made by Chiyo:

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Chyio herself is an experienced veteran in her own right. She knows Tsunade because they have fought both few wars themselves.

Tsunade herself refers to evasion as a skill of primary importance for medical ninja.

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This would certainly make sense if her own fighting style had an emphasis on utilising her experience and knowledge of battle to avoid enemy attacks.


Tsunade has a great deal of experience under her belt - decades worth of it, in fact. According to the databook her experience outshines most other ninja in the manga, with 40 D-rank, 236 C-rank, 467 B-rank, 418 A-rank, and 95 S-rank missions completed, totalling 1256 missions completed altogether.

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All this, plus she may have accumulated a great deal of uncredited combat experience from her participation in the Second and possibly the Third Great Ninja Wars.

And as I've specified before, do not get fooled to think her role only consisted in medical support. She didn't became feared around the world as one of the Legendary Three Ninjas because of that. Upper this thread, I've explained the given reasons.

Now, should we talk about other combat components such as Intelligence, Resilience?
 

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Chatte said:
Repeating myself from another thread. And since you asked for Tsunade argument...Here it is.

Many are quick to disregard Tsunade's combat skills simply because she doesn't seem as quick and precise as other combatants such as Gai and Lee. While this might be true, it does not necessarily make her any less dangerous in combat.

These sorts of comparisons often lead to her underestimation due to the fact that most people do not realise that Tsunade utilises a different style in combat, one that is not as reliant upon her speed and precision of attacks. This style takes full advantage of the traits that set her apart from most others, which in concert can make her more or equally as dangerous a close-quarters combatant as any other high tier ninja.

First of all, whilst Tsunade may not be very fast, she is certainly not slow.
She has shown the ability to blitz an opponent who according to the databook possesses more speed than herself (so that's why I always wondered why the databook put her speed lesser than it's showed in the manga). Furthermore, it should be noted that Shunshin no Jutsu (Body Flicker Technique) is classified as ninjutsu and therefore may be partially - if not wholly - excluded from a databook speed statistic.

Tsunade herself has shown impressive Shunshin range, reaching Pain's location in the centre of Konoha's ruins in mere moments.

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She was presumably able to keep up with A, a ninja of purportedly great speed even without his Raiton shroud and surprised two highly reflexive ninja in doing so.

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I must state, however, that speed alone is not the only factor that may be important during a combat situation. Do not get me wrong, it is undeniably important in most situations, but there are other factors that can come into play during close-combat. Many of these other factors are more or less tantamount to Tsunade's fighting style, and can even give her the edge she needs to fight on par with - if not best - faster opponents.

Let's take a look at her strenght.

Tsunade indisputably has some of the best strength feats in the entire manga, matched only by few. A single Tsūtenkyaku to the ground can cause an earth-shattering quake, resulting in an enormous crater.

[
IMG]http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb62/chatte_anger/Naruto/Tsunade58_zps7505d853.jpg[/IMG]

And even a strike from a single finger can rip the ground apart to create a sizeable fissure.

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Tsunade's most impressive strength feat, however, comes from her lifting of Gamabunta's several tonne tantō hundreds of metres into the air, and the speed and dexterity at which she manoeuvred it about.

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The enormous amount of upper body strength that would have been required to execute such a feat suggests that Tsunade's striking force may potentially be far more destructive than ever shown on-panel.

Orochimaru himself - a ninja who has fought alongside Tsunade for decades, making him somewhat of an expert regarding the full extent of her strength - tells Kabuto that a single blow from Tsunade can kill.

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Not only does Orochimaru have little incentive to lie, but he makes this statement whilst fully aware of Kabuto's self-healing ability In'yu Shōmetsu.

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Statement of Orochimaru, which in turn speaks volumes for Tsunade's strength. Even against highly defensive opponents, Tsunade's strength can potentially cause a great deal of blunt force trauma, which can lead to concussion and internal injury.

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(we know that Orochimaru was lucky not to get killed thanks to his jutsu ability of changing bodies, but after his second body, if he would've received a second blow, he would've been dead, that's why he retired from the battle.

Now before you jump in and ask "what is the use of high strength when she won't have the speed to hit anybody?", hear me out first.

Less strength-focused fighters, such as Rock Lee in base mode, need to land full hits if they wish to deal any significant form of damage to their opponents. Partial hits would essentially have little-to-no effect upon foes, and only serve to waste precious energy and chakra. Thus, their speed and accuracy is crucial to their fighting styles. Close-quarters combatants like Lee need the speed to be able to get close enough to opponents and position themselves appropriately to allow themselves the opportunity to land full and proper hits.
The other close-quarter combatant that needs to get close enough in order to attack his opponents is Neji, as we all know.

Tsunade with her superhuman strength, on the other hand, need not follow this rule. She does not need to get so close to an opponent, or attack so fast and accurately, to maximise her chances of landing a full hit. All she needs is enough speed to get herself in a position to land a partial hit. Why? Because even a partial hit from her can deal incredible amounts of damage. Glancing blows and the like can all cause grievous harm thanks to her strength; if a single finger from Tsunade can split the ground apart, I shudder to think of how much damage she could inflict by merely grazing an opponent. Furthermore, the sheer force of a partial hit can easily throw an enemy off balance, leaving them open to a followup attack - one that will most likely result in a full hit.

It is strongly implied that much of Tsunade's strength stems from the use of chakra; that is, by concentrating maximum amounts of it in specific areas of her body.

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We already know that the bottom of the feet is the most difficult area for ninja to gather chakra.

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and given that Tsunade has already shown exceptional strength and chakra release from her feet

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not to mention her unparalleled chakra control, it follows that she should be able to exert this strength from almost any part of the body that coincides with her Keirakukei.

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From this perspective, every inch of Tsunade's body is a weapon, which can only improve her chances of landing a partial or full hit.

Tsunade's strength can also be used to throw enemies off balance, disrupting their rhythm and potentially creating openings for herself. It is certainly not out-of-character for Tsunade to destroy the terrain in attempts to throw enemies off.

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and we know that - despite the role chakra may play in everyday ninja movement - terrain effects can still cause ninja to lose their balance.

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It should be noted that even when Tsunade does not try to throw enemies off, she may inadvertently do so anyway; when her attacks miss, if she follows through with her swing she can destroy the terrain around her, creating fissures, mini-earthquakes and whatnot. Particularly powerful hits from Tsunade can create shock waves, which may also serve to disrupt enemy movement.

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One might even suggest that terrain effects are well-suited for combating swifter opponents, who focus more on speed rather than careful footing or maintaining a firm grounding.

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For instance, should Tsunade attempt to create a fissure beneath Neji, staying put would result in a debilitating fall.

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leaving him vulnerable to a followup attack, but at the same time jumping could also result in an exploitable opening, à la Sasuke vs. Itachi.

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Notice how one had the advantage of the terrain was able to land a blow over the other one.
The act of jumping can prove surprisingly precarious for ninja, due to the inability to a dodge in midair (barring flight) and the rather predictable ascent and descent movement pattern.

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Particularly in situations where enemies have positioned themselves upon some kind of physical structure, Tsunade can essentially force her foes into a catch, in which they must choose either to stay and risk losing their balance or jump and risk becoming open to attack.

Following on from this point, it is equally possible for Tsunade to use her strength to cause shrapnel-like damage. Stray blows may inadvertently destroy the terrain, with the sheer force of impact capable of sending pieces of terrain and debris flying in all directions at high speeds.

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Lastly, many people overlook the advantage Tsunade may have in combat against enemies who initially possess no knowledge of her superhuman strength. In close-quarters, some may have a preference for blocking or parrying incoming hits. Irrefutably, an attempt to block a full-powered punch from Tsunade would result in broken bones and grievous injury for her opponent - perhaps even death.
Moreover, it should be noted that some taijutsu manoeuvres may not work against Tsunade simply by merit of her upper body strength; Tsunade can easily overwhelm opponents who attempt grapple-tactics on her, and can send opponents flying should they attempt taijutsu manoeuvres such as leg-binds.

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Most of the people here would state that Neji's taijutsu is better than Tsunade's, although she is one of the Legendary Three Ninja who is praised not only for her high level in medical ninjutsu (sure, that doesn't mean that we should downgrade Neji). Even Akatsuki members were praising them, and one of them was Kisame which was Itachi's companion in Akatsuki.

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As we can see, Kisame here referrs not only at Jiraya himself, he adresses to him as "one of the Legendary Three Ninjas"

Most of the people are fooled to think that Tsunade's taijutsu is not that good because every since she has been introduced she had a little screen-time in regards to fighting skills.
When she was shown fighting Kabuto and later Orochimaru, after she hadn't been in the ninja world for years, but people always tend to forget that thought it's implied that practice makes perfect.

That's why, most of the people are fooled to think that Tsunade's mission and war experience merely consists of non-combat, medical support roles and that's it. She didn't become feared around the world as one of the Legendary Sannin simply for being a healer; furthermore she is famous not only for her unbeatable medical skills (even Orochimaru has shown envy on her medical abilities) but also her strength and unbending will.

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This clearly suggests that combat-wise - specifically her type of combat techniques - were prominent during the years she spent out in the field earning a reputation for herself.

Jiraya himself, being her teammate for years, praised her more than none other because both her medical and combat skills, that her techniques weren't able to be acquired by anyone. Even Naruto Wiki (the one people seem to trust a lot) states that Tsunade used her superhuman strength in battles in order to scare away the enemies so that she could heal her comrades with no problem.

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Nonetheless, we can conclude that her combat skills were of great importance during the wars.
Shikaku Nara, Konoha's High Jōnin Commander, praises her for her strength rather than her medical skills. So once again we see that Tsunade was not renown only for her medical skills.

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According to the databook, Tsunade possesses a maximum of 5 out of 5 for taijutsu skill (one of the components of her combat style). Once again, this should come as no surprise, given what we have seen of her.

Tsunade has proven herself capable of reacting to attacks in which she has had little-to-no forewarning/showing vulnerability.

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With the latter dodge against Kabuto's underground attack showcasing her ability to avoid hits whilst in the same time she positions herself appropriately for an efficient counter-attack.
Not only that, but as well, she has shown that she can manoeuvre herself about and fight in awkward positions with apparent ease.

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Not only that but also counter-attacking at the same time and as well even Shunshin (Pathway Derangement) - behind attack.

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Another thing concerning Tsunade, we have seen that she can move and attack from inconvenient starting positions very fast and with surprising mobility (and all this in highly injured state, imagine in a safe state).

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Another thing concerning Tsunade's taijutsu combat-skills is the fact that she knows very well how to take advantage on terrain alteration. She is very aware of her surroundings and the way she can use them to best suit her.

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So in the time Neji would fight her, he wouldn't have to worry only about himself, he would have to worry as well about his surroundings as they can be used by Tsunade.

Another feat when it comes to her taijutsu skills, is the fact that she has shown remarkable dexterity in the heat of combat, although at the beginning she seemed vulnerable, and used 3 feats in one: 1. dexterity, 2. medical ninjutsu, 3. unnoticeable moves by being able to steal Naruto's wallet (without him even observing that) while performing the other two moves, plus she was handling in the same time while hitting Naruto's pressure points, a kunai.

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And we have to keep in mind that all these feats were performing while we were seeing a drunk, a tired out, rusty Tsunade.
As Jiraya says, Tsunade hand't slept for very long.

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People easily discard Tsunade's taijutsu, as in their mind, it has to be "speed plus lethality of attacks" (while I agree that lethality is an important factor, speed might not always be) , but in practice, I think it's much more than that, experience accumulated along the years matters as well.

We will examine some examples where speed and lethality are more or less equal, in order to highlight the fact that differences in taijutsu skill and experience are the main reason why one ninja can have the upper hand over the other one, in our case, Tsunade over Neji.

1. Sasuke & Danzo

Sasuke & Danzo. During their battle, there was no apparent discrepancy in speed between the two (though, as we all have seen, speed feats were in favor of Sasuke) , and Sasuke even possessed the range advantage with his sword.
However, Danzō was able to land the first hit against Sasuke.

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This happened most likely due to superior taijutsu and battle experience. Note how Danzo's Sharingan at that time was off, this was purely hand-to-hand combat.

2. Kakashi and Sasuke

During Kakashi's battle with Sasuke, their speed was less or more equal, yet during their hand-to-hand combat it was Kakashi that landed the hit.

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It is not as if Sasuke had been too slow to react to the kick, since he didn't appear surprised by it and was even able to block it, it seems as though Kakashi's timing and combat intuition was superior to Sasuke's here given his combat experience. His ability to know exactly what taijutsu manoeuvre to use and when allowed him to land the first hit.

3. Sasuke and Itachi

During Sasuke's battle with Itachi, their speeds were more or less equal, and Sasuke with his sword, once again, had the range advantage against his brother. However, during their close-combat battle, it is Itachi who manages to land the first hit against Sasuke.

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Once again, it is shown to us that Itachi's superior timing of attacks and his choice of which taijutsu manoeuvre to use gained throughout his combat experience.

So, these three examples of how taijutsu combat skills combined with battle experience can give one ninja the advantage over the other one. Without a doubt, Tsunade's taijutsu skill is representative of her ability to perceive openings, take advantage of them, and use the right taijutsu manoeuvres to match the situation as we've seen throughout the given examples.

Now some, will bring-up the fact that Neji can somewhat read her movements via Byakugan. Still, as we've seen, even though Byakugan sees the movements, the body it's not necessarily responding, but being Neji, you might say he'll use Rotation, true but as we've seen Sasuke wasn't able to keep up with up with Lee, though he had Sharingan. You'll say that Lee did that with speed.
Nothing more correct than that either.
But what's different in Tsunade's ways and the others, is the fact that she can use her surroundings as well, and that, Neji can see, but doesn't mean h e can do something about it. He won't guess how she'll use the surroundings in her favour, just the movements she'll do.

Another component that Tsunade uses in her taijutsu, is, as we all know, her evasive skills.

When I say evasion here, I am not referring necessarily to the ability to react quickly to an attack (though it was shown that she can do that as well). I am referring to the ability to anticipate an attack and react accordingly. Many do not know the difference.

The former requires high speed and reaction time. As we've seen throughout the manga, Tsunade has those as well.
Now regarding her speed, let me clear out that as well.

Why most of people call her slow is because:

1. Madara's statement: She's stronger than the Raikage, but slower. Slower than the Raikage doesn't make her the slowest. Please be careful at the comparison terms. I would advise you to look further into those rules.
Plus, it's a one piece comparison, not mass comparison. Madara didn't called her slower than the entire Shinobi World, he called her slower than one character, Raikage.

2: Her summon, Katsuyu. If Katsuyu is a slug, and slugs are known to be slow, that doesn't make Tsunade slow. Don't misinterpret Tsunade's Summon with Tsunade's character.

3: Just because she chooses to take the attacks, it doesn't make her slow. Her intention is clear: she is the one who wants to take that attack, being self-aware of her tanking ability.
Most of you don't even know what's Tsunade's primary ability. Because you hate Sakura, didn't even looked into Tsunade's feats, as Tsunade's learning Sakura what she uses in battle.
Tsunade's primary skill is evasive skills:

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Now, what do we get from here?

When you face an opponents attack evasion comes first!

Evading an attack requires high speed and reaction time. Therefore, we can safely assume she is fast enough as her primary skills is evasion.


Now, let us see some examples where Tsunade was able to show her speed feats.

1. In the battle with Kabuto, even though she hasn't been fighting over a big period of time (so we're talking about a rusty Tsunade), she was able to keep it up with Kabuto, who at that time was compared with Kakashi, but not forget that first he took Hyourougan. Those are soldier pills who are known for enhancing all your senses (this includes speed as well). So having all his senses increased, Tsunade who, as I've specified, hadn't fought for years, was able to evade his attacks and respond with an attack in the same time as she manoeuvres her body placed in weird positions, and all that with ease.

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Not to mention that from Tanzaku castle up to the Sannin batterfield, Tsunade managed to follow Orochimaru and Kabuto and in the same time she destroyed everything in her path.

2. In the same highly injured state, Tsunade was able to outrun Orochimaru (who in his snake form as we've seen is very fast and he was even able to outrun a 4 tails Naruto) in order to protect Naruto from being impaled with the Kusanagi sword:

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3. As well as after being impaled herself with the sword, she was able to move fast enough once again to protect Naruto, when not even Jiraya himself was able to do the hand seals.

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And before starting to release her seal, she punched Orochimaru. That requires reaction speed and speed itself as well.

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4. She was able to keep it up on the same pair with Manda. Actually, I would comment that a bit faster since she pin-pointed his location and calculated his attack direction and was able to stab him with Gamabunta's sword.
So here not only a feat as a speed but also reaction-time.

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Not to mention that Manda has the advantage of shape.

And right-away after she dealt with Manda, she switched to Orochimaru, who was trying to attack her, in an instance:

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5. Another example of her being fast is the Pein arc. In an considerably injured state, she was able to outrun a ANBU in great shape. And not only that, but we must consider the area she faced with. We clearly see here as well her reaction speed as she already has her hand in a fist while one of the Pein paths was already preparing to attack her.

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6. The last, but not the least, as we all know is the example of Tsunade being able to move even faster than Mei was able to do the hand seals for countering Madara's technique. Mei barely said "Suiton" and Tsunade was already there and tanked 3 Yasaka Magatamas.

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Now the latter comment made by me regarding her evasion skills, simply requires a great deal of experience and knowledge, in line with comments made by Chiyo:

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Chyio herself is an experienced veteran in her own right. She knows Tsunade because they have fought both few wars themselves.

Tsunade herself refers to evasion as a skill of primary importance for medical ninja.

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This would certainly make sense if her own fighting style had an emphasis on utilising her experience and knowledge of battle to avoid enemy attacks.


Tsunade has a great deal of experience under her belt - decades worth of it, in fact. According to the databook her experience outshines most other ninja in the manga, with 40 D-rank, 236 C-rank, 467 B-rank, 418 A-rank, and 95 S-rank missions completed, totalling 1256 missions completed altogether.

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All this, plus she may have accumulated a great deal of uncredited combat experience from her participation in the Second and possibly the Third Great Ninja Wars.

And as I've specified before, do not get fooled to think her role only consisted in medical support. She didn't became feared around the world as one of the Legendary Three Ninjas because of that. Upper this thread, I've explained the given reasons.

Now, should we talk about other combat components such as Intelligence, Resilience?
Click to expand...

You got waaaaay too much time on your hand, I mean, seriously.
 
fastrthnwind

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kibainuzuka said:
you're neji fanboy arent you?
Click to expand...

I dislike the term "fanboy", but you call me whatever you want. He is my favorite character, and having done all research possible on him and his abilities, I am able to say that his abilities are grossly underestimated in the base simply because he is one of the K11, who are considered to be fodder characters. This is one of the few instances where he could beat an opponent whose rank is considered much higher than his because of the match-up and restrictions.

As I said earlier, give her Katsuya and she could pull a win mid-diff.
 
Chatte

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PretaPath said:
And your point is?
Rofl
Click to expand...

But your point is?
fastrthnwind said:
I dislike the term "fanboy", but you call me whatever you want. He is my favorite character, and having done all research possible on him and his abilities, I am able to say that his abilities are grossly underestimated in the base simply because he is one of the K11, who are considered to be fodder characters. This is one of the few instances where he could beat an opponent whose rank is considered much higher than his because of the match-up and restrictions.

As I said earlier, give her Katsuya and she could pull a win mid-diff.
Click to expand...

She takes this without Katsuyu.
Add Katsuyu he's long gone.
I like Neji too, but still...let's not overestimate him that much.
 

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Chatte said:
But your point is?


She takes this without Katsuyu.
Add Katsuyu he's long gone.
I like Neji too, but still...let's not overestimate him that much.
Click to expand...

My point is you have way too much time on your hand. Not really hard to understand.
 
Chatte

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PretaPath said:
My point is you have way too much time on your hand. Not really hard to understand.
Click to expand...

Oh, isn't that sweet? Worrying about my time. Oh, dear!
And that previous post was sarcastic, but seems you didn't get it, anyway.
 
fastrthnwind

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Chatte said:
But your point is?


She takes this without Katsuyu.
Add Katsuyu he's long gone.
I like Neji too, but still...let's not overestimate him that much.
Click to expand...

Katsuya was the najor deciding factor in this match. Take away that and Neji has much better chances of winning.

I never overestimate Neji, but this is one match-up that is in his favor, meaning he is a lot more likely than most people because his abilities are tailored specifically to take down opponents like Tsunade with these restrictions.
 

PretaPath

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Chatte said:
Oh, isn't that sweet? Worrying about my time. Oh, dear!
And that previous post was sarcastic, but seems you didn't get it, anyway.
Click to expand...

Do I look like I care a bit? I'm just saying.
The saddest part here is you spent like 2 hours of your life writting this post that everyone ignored, lol.
 
Chatte

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PretaPath said:
Do I look like I care a bit? I'm just saying.
The saddest part here is you spent like 2 hours of your life writting this post that everyone ignored, lol.
Click to expand...

If you wouldn't have cared, you wouldn't have commented. ;)

fastrthnwind said:
Katsuya was the najor deciding factor in this match. Take away that and Neji has much better chances of winning.

I never overestimate Neji, but this is one match-up that is in his favor, meaning he is a lot more likely than most people because his abilities are tailored specifically to take down opponents like Tsunade with these restrictions.
Click to expand...

I took away that.
 
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