(Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

[Brother Numpsay]

"Where's your support for Kakuzu's chakra? " One more point to back up Kakuzu's chakra and their mask. Scans show how much chakra he is pouring out to do elemental bazooka's without him complain about conserving chakra.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And Here is the Chakra Proof that he is able to still sustain this battle

 

[Joki]

Here.

Ok thanks, I didn't see them

I did not imply that Kisame will just stand there I am simply saying that No knowledge of his tech would mean he is ready to kill destroy his monsters. Little does he know that their Focus to to revive Kakuzu and not fight witout Kakuzu. The scan I post was to show that they are capable.

You're not making sense. Why would Kisame NOT fight the masks when go to revive Kakuzu? He's going to sit there, ignore them and let the masks revive Kakuzu simply because they aren't attacking or going straight for Kisame?

Because Kisame has full knowledge and Kakuzu won't analzye and make the same mistake to get "owned" right.. Please stop underestimating Akasuki members, even Kisimoto wouldn't show that it is possible to one hit KO the Akasuki.

Then don't overrate Kakuzu and his masks. You keep saying "Kakuzu will analyze Kisame and not get owned" but Kakuzu has literally nothing in his arsenal that prevents that no matter how good he analyzes, and you say "Kakuzu is the smart one not me", this doesn't help your argument when you're supposed to give ways for Kakuzu to win. How exactly does he plan to "analyze Kisame and not get owned"?

YES YES YES we already concluded that ONE HEART IS DOWNb

People complain that I sound like a broken record, yet I'm forced to continue repeating myself because the other people don't get it and repeat the same already countered points over and over again. Okay, then what? Kisame destroyed one mask, Kakuzu can't use 1/5 of his jutsu and has considerably less power and chakra than before. And he STILL has no way to actually put Kisame down!

Because the feat-less Sabu can:

You must be registered for see images

That tiny thing in the top right is Kisame, just reminding you

They won't be perfect, they will have some chakra taken off but they will still survive just like Sabu.

It's clear you don't know which attack is which, but water dome is a different matter. in which Kisame can just keep up forever. It prevents any of Kakuzu's elemental blasts from even being able to touch him, all he has to do is follow the masks around forever and that's GG. Sabu and Ponta actually got out of the dome when Kisame dropped it btw, they didn't do anything to actually counter it or escape. Even you know what would happen if Kisame left it up for more than a few seconds.

Kakuzu has intellect feat. If he is inside the Dome and see he Chakra getting drain and will not TRY to give me chakra.

Well there you go, what does he plan to do other than run away? Kisame stays on him, he has literally no counter, you just admitted yourself Kakuzu wouldn't even try to fight inside the dome but try to escape it. Big mistake from the chakra monster Kisame, this is your concession right here.

And again, that's not even the right jutsu, you still have no counters to the actual shark missile which you ignored and mistook for water dome on the multiple occasions.

"Daikodan would destroy him and wipe out multiple hearts like FRS did." Prove it. Water Dome only acts like water prison that drains chakra, can't believe you compared two different jutsus together....

...see above, wrong jutsu you have there.

LOL, oh God...

I'm glad you actually put thought into a counter instead of just mocking me despite the masks being wiped out by fodder attacks every time.

Prove it. While I disprove it.[/b]

You must be registered for see images

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Ok thanks, I didn't see them

You're not making sense. Why would Kisame NOT fight the masks when go to revive Kakuzu? He's going to sit there, ignore them and let the masks revive Kakuzu simply because they aren't attacking or going straight for Kisame?
Then don't overrate Kakuzu and his masks. You keep saying "Kakuzu will analyze Kisame and not get owned" but Kakuzu has literally nothing in his arsenal that prevents that no matter how good he analyzes, and you say "Kakuzu is the smart one not me", this doesn't help your argument when you're supposed to give ways for Kakuzu to win. How exactly does he plan to "analyze Kisame and not get owned"?People complain that I sound like a broken record, yet I'm forced to continue repeating myself because the other people don't get it and repeat the same already countered points over and over again. Okay, then what? Kisame destroyed one mask, Kakuzu can't use 1/5 of his jutsu and has considerably less power and chakra than before. And he STILL has no way to actually put Kisame down!

That's not Daikodan. That's water dome, which Sabu and Ponta were only in for a very short time. This is daikodan:

You must be registered for see images

That tiny thing in the top right is Kisame, just reminding you

It's clear you don't know which attack is which, but water dome is a different matter. in which Kisame can just keep up forever. It prevents any of Kakuzu's elemental blasts from even being able to touch him, all he has to do is follow the masks around forever and that's GG. Sabu and Ponta actually got out of the dome when Kisame dropped it btw, they didn't do anything to actually counter it or escape. Even you know what would happen if Kisame left it up for more than a few seconds.
Well there you go, what does he plan to do other than run away? Kisame stays on him, he has literally no counter, you just admitted yourself Kakuzu wouldn't even try to fight inside the dome but try to escape it. Big mistake from the chakra monster Kisame, this is your concession right here.

And again, that's not even the right jutsu, you still have no counters to the actual shark missile which you ignored and mistook for water dome on the multiple occasions.
...see above, wrong jutsu you have there.
I'm glad you actually put thought into a counter instead of just mocking me despite the masks being wiped out by fodder attacks every time.
What are you talking about? Kisame turned a vast barren

You must be registered for see links

into

You must be registered for see links

within seconds. Surely you're not forgetting the most used and most main and relevant jutsu out of Kisame's entire arsenal?
Sure it is, what else would Kisame do, dispel the water dome despite the ability to sense all chakra within his dome? He follows the masks and picks them off, no one to this point has given any counter whatsoever, it works, and it's in character. Why wouldn't Kisame do that?

The words that I hear when you can't counter something.

That's great, I've seen all of those before. Does any of that prove how Kakuzu's chakra is even comparable to Bee's at all? It doesn't, Kisame drained him extraordinarily fast, and Killer Bee, the 8 tailed bijuu, is quite obviously a guy with far more chakra than most. You seem to think because Kakuzu used his elemental blasts once or twice each he will have god chakra that will never run out.

You will need more support than that, unfortunately for Kakuzu supporters there isn't any. Kakuzu has nowhere near the amount of chakra of a full on bijuu and perfect jinchuriki has, the same one that Kisame drained of all his chakra to where he almost fainted in seconds, and on other occasions casually sliced away 6 tails of the bijuu cloak at a time.

In more conclusion, still no way for Kakuzu to put kisame down, survive Daikodan, or do anything other than run away from Kisame forever which apparently somehow is considered a win by Kakuzu supporters.

First, excuse me for my Ignorance of Justsu's Name in Jap. I'm not good with japanese words >_>. The argument didn't make sense since I was talking about Water Dome .Regardless, it is still a good arguement when bringing up Water Dome.

Now let me start this again:

Kisame has 2 finishers: Water Dome and GSM. A direct hit will KILL Kakuzu (Even though I never seen Water Jutsu's every killing anyone).

Here is the problem. Kisame will eventually have to use one of these two Jutsu's first. Simply killing Kakuzu once give him an advantage. These two Jutsu serves a purpose and shows Kisame's fighting-style, they both are water attacks mix with absorption. Killing Kakuzu with one of them now gives him knowledge in the battle field of Kisames attacks (This also gives Kisame knowledge on why he calls them the "Zombie Duo", because he has extra hearts).

"You're not making sense. Why would Kisame NOT fight the masks when go to revive Kakuzu? He's going to sit there, ignore them and let the masks revive Kakuzu simply because they aren't attacking or going straight for Kisame?"
Kisame is going to fight them next. The Mask won't. They will pull a stunt like they did to choji, which you have blindly saw that he one shot them (Also look at the anime episode it shows it better). They have feats of survival tactics and reviving Kakuzu (pressuring Kisame/ keep away from Kakuzu)..
That is all I am saying..

The rest of the Argument goes back to Negative Knight OP so I am not bring back. Example: adsorb vs ninjutsu argument.

Side Notes: I AM NOT UNDER Rating Kisame I just think: I just think Kakuzu 51% of winning and Kisame 49%.

If Kisame does Water Dome first to finish his opponent he loses. If he does GSM first and Dome Next he can win.

 

[Joki]

First, excuse me for my Ignorance of Justsu's Name in Jap. I'm not good with japanese words >_>. The argument didn't make sense since I was talking about Water Dome .Regardless, it is still a good arguement when bringing up Water Dome.

Now let me start this again:

Kisame has 2 finishers: Water Dome and GSM. A direct hit will KILL Kakuzu (Even though I never seen Water Jutsu's every killing anyone).

Here is the problem. Kisame will eventually have to use one of these two Jutsu's first. Simply killing Kakuzu once give him an advantage. These two Jutsu serves a purpose and shows Kisame's fighting-style, they both are water attacks mix with absorption. Killing Kakuzu with one of them now gives him knowledge in the battle field of Kisames attacks (This also gives Kisame knowledge on why he calls them the "Zombie Duo", because he has extra hearts).

"You're not making sense. Why would Kisame NOT fight the masks when go to revive Kakuzu? He's going to sit there, ignore them and let the masks revive Kakuzu simply because they aren't attacking or going straight for Kisame?"
Kisame is going to fight them next. The Mask won't. They will pull a stunt like they did to choji, which you have blindly saw that he one shot them (Also look at the anime episode it shows it better). They have feats of survival tactics and reviving Kakuzu (pressuring Kisame/ keep away from Kakuzu)..
That is all I am saying..

The rest of the Argument goes back to Negative Knight OP so I am not bring back. Example: adsorb vs ninjutsu argument.

Side Notes: I AM NOT UNDER Rating Kisame I just think: I just think Kakuzu 51% of winning and Kisame 49%.

If Kisame does Water Dome first to finish his opponent he loses. If he does GSM first and Dome Next he can win.

Why would using water dome or daikodan first matter, you've still told me absolutely no way for Kakuzu to actually put Kisame down. I'm repeating myself to the highest degree at this point, but Kakuzu can't just run away to secure a win he has to actually fight back, and he's the absolute crappiest opponent to fight Kisame back with. The fact you haven't given any possible way for Kakuzu to actually hurt Kisame or survive water dome/daikodan or having the amount of chakra to last long proves me right.

You think the masks can "pull a choji" and escape to go heal up Kakuzu before Kisame knows about it? This is a ridiculously flawed argument for a few reasons that I think are obvious: First is that you still, to this point, continuously ignore the fact that Kisame can sense all chakra within his dome. No masks or Kakuzu are escaping his sight, if Kakuzu's chakra levels don't disappear he knows he's not dead, why would he ignore the masks?

2nd is that youy seem to think the masks can suddenly pull a chouji like you said and miraculously escape the grip of Kisame to go heal Kakuzu. This is ridiculous, you should know how severely faster Kisame is underwater than anything else and the masks have hardly shown being fast at all. Not only are they useless in the dome, Kisame can just summon 200 sharks to split up and go after the masks, they have no answer for it, and that's an instant win.

Me giving out dozens of actual legitimate ways for Kisame to destroy and having STILL absolutely no counter supporting Kakuzu standing a chance vs any of these strategies proves me right further. Kisame stomps badly. And to conclude how would killing off Kakuzu/one of his hearts give Kakuzu an advantage? Like I said, which you ignored like 80% of my other stuff, that means Kakuzu has vastly less chakra than before, Kisame is still at 100% full health and stamina, Kakuzu is constantly being drained and will never not be, and he's down 1 entire jutsu and will never be able to use that heart again. Please tell me how Kakuzu has any sort of advantage in this fight, all sources point to Kisame stomping.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Why would using water dome or daikodan first matter, you've still told me absolutely no way for Kakuzu to actually put Kisame down. I'm repeating myself to the highest degree at this point, but Kakuzu can't just run away to secure a win he has to actually fight back, and he's the absolute crappiest opponent to fight Kisame back with. The fact you haven't given any possible way for Kakuzu to actually hurt Kisame or survive water dome/daikodan or having the amount of chakra to last long proves me right.

You think the masks can "pull a choji" and escape to go heal up Kakuzu before Kisame knows about it? This is a ridiculously flawed argument for a few reasons that I think are obvious: First is that you still, to this point, continuously ignore the fact that Kisame can sense all chakra within his dome. No masks or Kakuzu are escaping his sight, if Kakuzu's chakra levels don't disappear he knows he's not dead, why would he ignore the masks?

2nd is that youy seem to think the masks can suddenly pull a chouji like you said and miraculously escape the grip of Kisame to go heal Kakuzu. This is ridiculous, you should know how severely faster Kisame is underwater than anything else and the masks have hardly shown being fast at all. Not only are they useless in the dome, Kisame can just summon 200 sharks to split up and go after the masks, they have no answer for it, and that's an instant win.

Me giving out dozens of actual legitimate ways for Kisame to destroy and having STILL absolutely no counter supporting Kakuzu standing a chance vs any of these strategies proves me right further. Kisame stomps badly. And to conclude how would killing off Kakuzu/one of his hearts give Kakuzu an advantage? Like I said, which you ignored like 80% of my other stuff, that means Kakuzu has vastly less chakra than before, Kisame is still at 100% full health and stamina, Kakuzu is constantly being drained and will never not be, and he's down 1 entire jutsu and will never be able to use that heart again. Please tell me how Kakuzu has any sort of advantage in this fight, all sources point to Kisame stomping.

"Why would using water dome or daikodan first matter"
Because It will terminate Kakuzu next move after he is defeated by it. After Revive this gives knowledge on Kisames tech and is prepare to avoid these dangerous jutsus. This also matters because these are the only two Water Jutsu that Kisame does that actually absorbs jutsus. If dying by a Giant Water Dome kills him first, he will avoid getting ht by a giant sharkwave that might POSSIBLY do the same after his death like Water Dome, Kakuzu is an over-Analyzer:

You must be registered for see links

.

"you've still told me absolutely no way for Kakuzu to actually put Kisame down."
Like I said, I agree with the OP that show how he can put Kisame down so fine I will rewrite it in my own words.
Kakuzu Wind Release:" Wind's natural neutrality with Water means this could be used as a method to cancel out large waves of water summoned by Kisame by dissipating the force so much they lose all momentum and collapse."
When Kakuzu lands a hit from this:

You must be registered for see images

The only way he can possibly counter it is like this:

You must be registered for see images

As you notice the Fire wasn't completely absorb since his Sword does not like Pain's absorption (The Sword is LIMTED). Since the Air Blast Jutsu purpose is to obliterate the opponent from sheer pressure of massive wind, Kisame cutting it in half will also mean the jutsu its self would overwelm him because of the Swords Limitations.

You must be registered for see images

Note Side: It was easier to consume him Killer Bee when in Water Dome. The point I am making is when getting attacked from a direct hit from a massive attack.

Another Note: Please do NOT take my points as a One Hit KO's I am only showing you the "Put downs" on Kisame that you told me to provide. But the second put down would mean that Kakuzu will take his heart


Next, Lightening: I actually have a different perspective of how to use it to put down Kisame then the OP. Kakuzu can use it on the Sword to distract.

If this style were to hit:

Notice this:

You must be registered for see images

Notice how Kisame can showed that he doesn't have trouble CONSUMING all the lightening. Notice the size of the jutsu, it is a lot easier then taking all of Itachi's fire

Since Kakuzu Lightening is not really as massive as his other Jutsu it can be absorb. BUT, it is still is good enough for Kisame's Sword to focus on absorbing it, leaving Kisame Defenseless.

What tactic can Kakuzu use at this point? The same as J-man and Killer Bee:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And Bee's

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

So far I showed you two. I have to post part 2 because my computer won't let me send a long post. Brb: with Edit.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

"Why would using water dome or daikodan first matter"
Because It will terminate Kakuzu next move after he is defeated by it. After Revive this gives knowledge on Kisames tech and is prepare to avoid these dangerous jutsus. This also matters because these are the only two Water Jutsu that Kisame does that actually absorbs jutsus. If dying by a Giant Water Dome kills him first, he will avoid getting ht by a giant sharkwave that might POSSIBLY do the same after his death like Water Dome, Kakuzu is an over-Analyzer:

You must be registered for see links

.

"you've still told me absolutely no way for Kakuzu to actually put Kisame down."
Like I said, I agree with the OP that show how he can put Kisame down so fine I will rewrite it in my own words.
Kakuzu Wind Release:" Wind's natural neutrality with Water means this could be used as a method to cancel out large waves of water summoned by Kisame by dissipating the force so much they lose all momentum and collapse."
When Kakuzu lands a hit from this:

You must be registered for see images

The only way he can possibly counter it is like this:

You must be registered for see images

As you notice the Fire wasn't completely absorb since his Sword does not like Pain's absorption (The Sword is LIMTED). Since the Air Blast Jutsu purpose is to obliterate the opponent from sheer pressure of massive wind, Kisame cutting it in half will also mean the jutsu its self would overwelm him because of the Swords Limitations.

You must be registered for see images

Note Side: It was easier to consume him Killer Bee when in Water Dome. The point I am making is when getting attacked from a direct hit from a massive attack.

Another Note: Please do NOT take my points as a One Hit KO's I am only showing you the "Put downs" on Kisame that you told me to provide. But the second put down would mean that Kakuzu will take his heart


Next, Lightening: I actually have a different perspective of how to use it to put down Kisame then the OP. Kakuzu can use it on the Sword to distract.

If this style were to hit:

Notice this:

You must be registered for see images

Notice how Kisame can showed that he doesn't have trouble CONSUMING all the lightening. Notice the size of the jutsu, it is a lot easier then taking all of Itachi's fire

Since Kakuzu Lightening is not really as massive as his other Jutsu it can be absorb. BUT, it is still is good enough for Kisame's Sword to focus on absorbing it, leaving Kisame Defenseless.

What tactic can Kakuzu use at this point? The same as J-man and Killer Bee:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And Bee's

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

So far I showed you two. I have to post part 2 because my computer won't let me send a long post. Brb: with Edit.

Edit:/

" First is that you still, to this point, continuously ignore the fact that Kisame can sense all chakra within his dome. No masks or Kakuzu are escaping his sight, if Kakuzu's chakra levels don't disappear he knows he's not dead, why would he ignore the masks?"
Yes he can sense all chakra within the dome, so what? HE HAS to FOCUS on TAKING on ONE of THEM FIRST. That is all HE CANNOT TAKE Killer Bee and Sabu AT the SAME time. SINCE his BEST choice is to take out Kakuzu then HIS FOCUS will be doing this to him:

You must be registered for see links

. While Draining Kakuzu Chakra this gives his Mask to get out of the DOME. Just like how Killer Bee Saved Sabu and the Raccoon. NOW, that leaves Kisame chasing another Mask with his slow-arse water-dome to at least push back in ONE of them back in, Again they are all doing different directions: north east, west. Kisme now has to choose north south east west (Whatever direction his next target is.) The Mask have feats that they can move swiftly therefore they have time while Kisame is draining Kakuzu

"2nd is that youy seem to think the masks can suddenly pull a chouji like you said and miraculously escape the grip of Kisame to go heal Kakuzu." I would agree after the 2ND time of reviving would be idiotic but the first one would be because of no knowledge. That would be the same as Kakuzu putting Kisame down the 2nd time and still watches Samehada heal him again.

"This is ridiculous, you should know how severely faster Kisame is underwater than anything else and the masks have hardly shown being fast at all". Right about Kisame being fast, wrong around about Mask not being fast. They are not faster then Kisame put Kakuzu giving them time to escape is enough for them to now out run the Dome from land.

"Not only are they useless in the dome, Kisame can just summon 200 sharks to split up and go after the masks, they have no answer for it, and that's an instant win. "
Prove it, then I will agree

There we go

 

[soulreaper11]

tie i dont know who would win but if i had to choose kakazu depending on the landscape or location

 

[Prime Rib]

Kakazu is on another level compared to kisame, but it will be high diff

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Kakazu is on another level compared to kisame, but it will be high diff

I wouldn't say "another level". But he does have advantages in this battle that makes him win by a little bit.

 

[NOemotions]

Hard one... I'm only counting on kakuzu's war/battle experience which is like 1000years? xd it's alot.. I don't and cant underestimate these fine characters..but ill say 50/50 sorry, im just too tired of making it better xd ***** for doing such a nice thread again.

 

[Joki]

"Why would using water dome or daikodan first matter"
Because It will terminate Kakuzu next move after he is defeated by it. After Revive this gives knowledge on Kisames tech and is prepare to avoid these dangerous jutsus. This also matters because these are the only two Water Jutsu that Kisame does that actually absorbs jutsus. If dying by a Giant Water Dome kills him first, he will avoid getting ht by a giant sharkwave that might POSSIBLY do the same after his death like Water Dome, Kakuzu is an over-Analyzer:

You must be registered for see links

.

You act like Kakuzu can easily "be prepared to avoid those jutsus" without any form of support or proof for why he can do so. Saying that doesn't change anything. How would using water dome before daikodan make Kakuzu somehow enlightened about Daikodan and effortlessly able to avoid them like you exaggerate? It won't, it's that simple.

Also, just pointing out early one you're quite clearly ignoring the main points of my posts and acting like they don't exist. Just quoting the 1st introducing sentence to a paragraph of my reasoning doesn't let you ignore the rest that actually has my points with proof in them.

"you've still told me absolutely no way for Kakuzu to actually put Kisame down." Like I said, I agree with the OP that show how he can put Kisame down so fine I will rewrite it in my own words.
Kakuzu Wind Release:" Wind's natural neutrality with Water means this could be used as a method to cancel out large waves of water summoned by Kisame by dissipating the force so much they lose all momentum and collapse."
When Kakuzu lands a hit from this:

You must be registered for see images

Further evidenced by Samehada effortlessly absorbing Killer Bee's raiton chakra in legitimate raiton jutsu.

You must be registered for see images

And plenty other panels show him doing that.

Third is that Kisame on multiple, multiple, previous occasions has absorbed multiple tails of Bee's chakra cloak at the same time. Of course his sword's absorption is LIMITED, but are Kakuzu's jutsus ever close to the scale of a full bijuu/perfect Jinchuriki's chakra count? Of course not. By limited, everything is limited, and Kakuzu will never reach that cap. Posting a scan of Kisame absorbing so much chakra that took Bee out of V2 mode entirely and using it to SUPPORT Kakuzu is a horrible idea.

Furthermore the original scan:

You must be registered for see images

But neither of them help your argument...at all.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And if it's so "limited", then why is it able to do this to a person with MULTIPLE times more chakra than Kakuzu has with ease?

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Next if you didn't see it coming: You act like, despite Kakashi surviving the point blank blast without any jutsu or regeneration, all it did was take his clothes off, that Kisame will be "cut in half" or completely torn apart from the blast. What? You're talking about the guy who was hit with a giant tsunami creating Hirudora and still able to move easily, talk and survive without serious injuries, and still have enough strength to break out of a biju suppressing Mokuton prison and use multiple kuchiyoses.

Not only is he extremely durable but with the above scan I already posted, he can regenerate from attacks like this with ease. Kakuzu again, still has nothing to put Kisame down even if he did land direct blasts from all of his techniques which obviously would never happen given the proof. Especially because you openly accept that Kisame can "kill off his hearts" within water dome putting Kakuzu down some of his only limited jutsu. Where's yours?

Next, Lightening: I actually have a different perspective of how to use it to put down Kisame then the OP. Kakuzu can use it on the Sword to distract.

If this style were to hit:

Notice this:

You must be registered for see images

And sorry for the late reply, I was getting pretty annoyed at having to repeat myself so much so I took a break from posting here until I felt like.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

You act like Kakuzu can easily "be prepared to avoid those jutsus" without any form of support or proof for why he can do so. Saying that doesn't change anything. How would using water dome before daikodan make Kakuzu somehow enlightened about Daikodan and effortlessly able to avoid them like you exaggerate? It won't, it's that simple.

Clearly you still don't acknowledge Kakuzu intelligent. You are going keep repeating yourself until you get it. No one falls for the same trick twice. Also you are everywhere in your argument. Can you stop with the One-Hit KO from the very beginning argument. You also have no proof that Kisame stored enough chakra to even use Dome jutsu from the beginning of the fight. What is so exaggerating with getting killed by dangerous jutsu to Kakuzu or ANY Akasuki?

You must be registered for see images

Also, just pointing out early one you're quite clearly ignoring the main points of my posts and acting like they don't exist. Just quoting the 1st introducing sentence to a paragraph of my reasoning doesn't let you ignore the rest that actually has my points with proof in them.

Show me parts that I ignored. If its post to downgrade Kakuzu feats then yes I most likely ignore those parts



Ok a few problems with this. Firstly is, how exactly will this fuuton render Kisame's water jutsu useless? When he sends out a giant shockwave of water, Kakuzu's fuuton won't do anything to it. Kisame's objective isn't to crush Kakuzu under the wave but to get ridiculous amounts of water on the field. So Kakuzu is just wasting a fuuton if he thinks pushing the water away will benefit him in any way. I fail to see this doing anything at all to or inside Water Dome, it's not happening. You agreed that within the dome his masks are utterly useless.

Again you down played Kakuzu Fuuton. Please Please Please don't tell me you can't conclude that this doesn't at least cancel his water title wave jutsu. Even the after shock was blowing away team 10. You are literally downgrading Kakuzu's attacks. You know that Kakuzu can also fuse his mask style so they can overpower other elemental jutsus also IF it was necessary.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Pic show the after shock of the attack

And now that I think of it, it wouldn't be utterly useless to use his elemental jutsu's if Sabu weren't complaining about his chakra. Killer Bee's chakra wasn't even draining as much as when Samahada was upclose. The Dome doesn't drain as fast.

Second is the fire: it's very obviously said that Samehada is "weak to fire", there's nothing stating that it would ever have trouble absorbing the other elements. Killer Bee on the very next page said it was too hot for him.

The swords weakness is not fire. There is a difference absorbing molded chakra then ninjustu. He can do both but the question how much? The point I was trying to make is that the size of the jutsu MATTERS on how much Samahada can consume at once. Take a bullet proof glass as an example: How much bullets can a bullet-proof glass take until it gets cracked? That is the point I was trying to make. Samahada has shown that HE CANNOT TAKE IT ALL AT ONCE. So where does that leave Kakuzu who does Giant Size Jutsus.



Further evidenced by Samehada effortlessly absorbing Killer Bee's raiton chakra in legitimate raiton jutsu.

You must be registered for see images

And plenty other panels show him doing that.

Like I said NOTICE the Size of that Raiton and then NOTICE Itachi's Fireball Size. Now notice what Samehada going to do on Kakuzu's Size

Third is that Kisame on multiple, multiple, previous occasions has absorbed multiple tails of Bee's chakra cloak at the same time. Of course his sword's absorption is LIMITED, but are Kakuzu's jutsus ever close to the scale of a full bijuu/perfect Jinchuriki's chakra count? Of course not. By limited, everything is limited, and Kakuzu will never reach that cap. Posting a scan of Kisame absorbing so much chakra that took Bee out of V2 mode entirely and using it to SUPPORT Kakuzu is a horrible idea.

I can believe you are still going by this logic. Samahada absorbs people's chakra DIFFERENTLY. Look at the comparsion of each person Kisame absorbed chakra from. Suigetsu, Aoba, 4 tails, etc. If you go back that logic that since Kisame absorbed 6 tails out of 8 from Killer Bee then Suigetsu and Aoba should of died from one swipe. And Kisame wouldn't have complain about fighting the 4 tails when all it takes is one swipe that can take on 6 tails cloak. It doesn't work that way. And the reason why Samahada absorbed so much of Killer Bee was because it LOVED his Chakra. So your argument about Chakra is flawed.

Note: Sorry, I delete some scan post due to space and me pointing out the fallacy of the Cakera Argument that I already explained

And if it's so "limited", then why is it able to do this to a person with MULTIPLE times more chakra than Kakuzu has with ease?
I didn't delete this part because I want you to go back up to what I explained

Next if you didn't see it coming: You act like, despite Kakashi surviving the point blank blast without any jutsu or regeneration, all it did was take his clothes off, that Kisame will be "cut in half" or completely torn apart from the blast. What? You're talking about the guy who was hit with a giant tsunami creating Hirudora and still able to move easily, talk and survive without serious injuries, and still have enough strength to break out of a biju suppressing Mokuton prison and use multiple kuchiyoses.

Because Kakashi Didn't GET a DIRECT HIT and Dodged it. Even by dodging it (Dodge because of his Shanigan) that after shock riped up his coat armor with ease. Proof that Kakashi dodge because of his eye:

You must be registered for see images

You told me to proof how can he be put down it doesn't matter how much damage he is going to take. HE is still down if he gets hit by hit. It is still enough time to steal Kisames heart.

Not only is he extremely durable but with the above scan I already posted, he can regenerate from attacks like this with ease. Kakuzu again, still has nothing to put Kisame down even if he did land direct blasts from all of his techniques which obviously would never happen given the proof. Especially because you openly accept that Kisame can "kill off his hearts" within water dome putting Kakuzu down some of his only limited jutsu. Where's yours?

He can regenerate from attacks but Kakuzu's Jutsu has enough power to separate him from his sword. Killer Bee's Latrait gave enough force to separate him from the sword. 1.) Kakuzu Massive Wind's Pressure can do it, Kisame will not cut through ALL of it.2.) Kakuzu's double lightening WILL keep Samadama busy absorbing while Kakuzu can go for knocking him down like he did to Kakashi:

You must be registered for see links

. 3.) Kakuzu Fire+Wind Flame-THROWER(NOT FIREBALL, it makes a big difference) would over power his water plus can use the same Tactic he did with the lightening I explain (With Example again:

You must be registered for see links

.) or Samahada can't handle absorbing too much of it. Kakuzu has three ways to put him down the 2nd time he will NOT let Samahada heal him. And also for me "accepting Mask's death in Water Dome": I never stated a 1v1 fight (Mask vs Kisame). I said they can escape just like Sabu, with the command of Kakuzu to manipulated them to get out. Kisame has to focus on one person in this fight. Which direction you think Kisame is going to take first? Mask 1, 2, 3, 4, or Kakuzu? Either he takes one out and the rest escapes.


This still doesn't support you in any way. All it does is show Kisame effectively battling with Bee, a person who's wayyyy out of Kakuzu's league in terms of chakra count, speed and skill and plenty other categories. How would attacking Kisame leave him defenseless? Is samehada a completely separate entity like Preta Path who's standing 50 feet in the other direction or is he always right next to Kisame? Seems to me that it's the latter, as well as that you're completely oblivious to Water Dome being a factor in this fight. Not only is Kakuzu surrounded by an ocean early on in the fight as Kisame's only main IC jutsu warrants it, but he won't even be able to use any of these jutsu within the dome, and Kisame absorbs them.

I already explain this above.

In case you though Kisame ever had to drop water dome surely you're mistaken. It doesn't drain Kisame's chakra, it absorbs the opponent's chakra countlessly and feeds it to Kisame. That's why Kisame is the best bijuu hunter in akatsuki and shrugged off fighting Roshi smiling. Kakuzu uses ninjutsu only and has nowhere near that amount of chakra, go figure.
Completely incorrect. Kisame figures "Kakuzu actually has to kill me, and his masks are important, let's go for the masks" just like he did with Bee. There you go, Kakuzu is helpless. All he can do is run away as confirmed by yourself, he has no way to fight back in the dome in the first place, Kisame can pick them off to his leisure with ease.

Explained above again but I would like to add something here. Sure you can take Kisame out of character and say he still keeps the jutsu after defeating something/ someone. Can both agree that he will kill Kakuzu first? If he is going after Kakuzu, Kakuzu would just strangle him with threads on his dying breath and chakra, Just like what Killer Bee did. Whatever you don't agree or not this gives The Mask's is has enough like Sabu to escape the Dome. Will Kisame now leave the jutsu on to follow the next Mask with Water Dome? You think it would be easier to catch them from land back to the Dome?

Even if Kisame did blindly ignore his entire intelligence and character to do a ridiculous plan that supports Kakuzu despite having no proof yourself, that's ridiculous. You're right, the others run away and Kakuzu/one of his masks dies. THEN WHAT? Kakuzu has NO way to actually hurt Kisame in the dome and running away from Kisame does not count as a win.For the umpteenth time Kakuzu has to actually fight back, escaping the dome doesn't mean "you win". And even if that WERE the case, what exactly can the masks do to protect against 20 sharks sent their way that forced Gai to enter gates to kill and they're far faster than under water?Riiight. Because the WHOLE point of your post is "Kisame will go after Kakuzu and not the masks". And what exactly does that say for you when the masks, who are literally dozens of times slower underwater and have no evidence they can even navigate underwater, have to get TO KAKUZU UNDERWATER to heal him? They're not getting past Kisame Hoshigaki, don't fool yourself so you don't have to admit Kisame wins.

Where did I question Kisame intelligence His intelligence has nothing to do with what the Mask is capable of doing the momment he lays eyes on them? You can't give him knowledge on Mask until he knows what they can do, then Kisame can slaughter them. Stop giving Kisame foreknowledge on this battle. And please stop saying no proof I have completely showed every scan to back myself up. And you already blindly looked at least 2 of my proofs that you made two misconceptions on. Then you keep ignoring the Dome counter. You also but words in my mouth that Kakuzu is running away from the battle. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID KAKAUZU is running away. I ONLY mention the MASK inside the DOME, COMMAND BY KAKUZU. Those water Sharks are not even threats Gai friction/fire balls where canceling out those those jutsu's when Water?>FIRE? Hell yea those mask can take care of those sharks themselves. Also I have never said that they will JUMP BACK INSIDE THE DOME LOL! Come on now Where did I say that will jump back inside? They will have to wait until the DOME dispel or Use Massive Jutsu's to pressure Kisame's Dome. THE DOME CHAKRA ABSORB IS SLOW DRAINING. Massive Jutsu will take a while to consume while it is pressuring Kisame to dispel or knock off before it can consume it all.

...they're not faster than Kisame, period. Not in land, DEFINITELY not underwater.

You must be registered for see images

This scan doesn't Proof that Kisame can do this or any other jutsus Inside Water Dome. I ask you to proof that he can NOT from other water Source to use it.

And sorry for the late reply, I was getting pretty annoyed at having to repeat myself so much so I took a break from posting here until I felt like.

Done.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Fixed.

 

[Lordofd100x]

this is hard, be a good fight though. just take kakuzus lightning and kisames healing and absorption. i think kisame though close

 

[Kikki]

Late response is better than no respose. Thanks for informing me about this thread, NK.

I agree that Kakuzu would make that one. I've yet to see a character that versatile that has shown that many powerful elemental attacks and other skills. Of course, Kisame can outheal and absorb most of the stuff but not forever. He was defeated by taijutsu in the end. Kakuzu lost because he was up against alot at once. One on one, it's probably impossible to kill him. Either of them can die but it would be a long, close and hard fight. In that case, Kakuzu has a better chance.

They probably don't put such people in combat because the change of the area would be so drastic, the environment couldn't recover.

 

[Negative Knight]

Notes for future debates:​

Speed of Doton Domu Activation -

You must be registered for see links

Retractive Limbs and Proficiency in Taijutsu -

You must be registered for see links

Earth Grudge Fear Transformation v1 -

You must be registered for see links

 

[PretaPath]

It's just obvious.. Kakuzu is the 4th strongest akatsuki member after all.

 

[karol the don]

i guess kakuzu gonna take this

 

[CommonSense]

Kakuzu couldn't beat Kisame.

Ninjutsu is absorbed by Kisame.. Ninjutsu is really the only thing that Kakuzu has, his Taijutsu is inferior to Kisame's and his strength.

 

[jiraiya lives]

lmao kakazu the earth grudge