[Discussion] Natsu is way too Hyped

[Killuaa]

Dude I see you on everything wanking Natsu talking about all the feat's he has and ignoring anybody else's you are a terrible debater and nobody should take you seriously

1. Silver beat a dragon something which Natsu can't do currently so Sliver>Natsu and current gray>natsu since he has silvers powers ( but I'm sure natsu is about to get another ass pull power up so I'll wait on that) Natsu having a lot of DC has nothing to do with winning this battle haxed or not ice demon slayer magic>fire dragon slayer magic and grey always beats people stronger than him with brains so now that he has ice demon slayer magic I just don't natsu can keep up

3.WTF is wrong with wrong with you Zancrow stronger than Ultear? first of all Time arc affects the time of nonliving things we know this for a fact and she could just move natsu's fire/lighting foreword or backward in time making it nothing.... and since your such a big fan of feats here is one Ultear beat a sealed state Zeref with death magic....you think any of the other Kin could do that?

4. again how will natsu counter her territory magic? you can't say he will win cause of his better base stats because she was able to keep up with erza and kagura both of which have way better strength and durability feats than natsu so plus how will he block her Ih Ragdo, or Yagdo Rigora? sorry but Minerva has the advantage over natsu

5.Orga has more magic power but Minerva has a better ability

6.she can teleport her body away so the roar shouldn't even be a problem plus her max AOE has never been seen or stated

I'm not wanking anybody, you're lowballing him coz you find him annoying or you like Gray more than him, I can see that as clear as the sun.
Terrible debater? None of my main points have been debunked yet, just because people are disagreeing with me doesn't make them right.
I've been debating over the internet for more than 5 years and I've encountered much more known debaters than your shitass arguments.

1. Silver never defeated a dragon, why don't you go back and check that it was just his spirit? That powerscaling is inaccurate. You're much more of a terrible debater than anybody I've ever encountered. Okay, his DC has nothing to do with it? Are you acting stupid or are you really that? DC is practically one of the biggest factors in a fight. That's never irrelevant. How do you know that? You're going off of a speculation by stating that. Gray fanboy, let me tell you something, NO. Gray never defeated anybody stronger than the one Natsu ends up fighting except for Galuna Island Arc which was centred on Gray. And Doriarte, when Natsu fought no relevant characters.

Lullaby Arc:
Natsu fought Erigor
Gray fought some unnamed fodder

Phantom Lord Arc:
Natsu fought Gajeel
Gray fought Juvia

TOH arc:
Natsu fought Jellal
Gray fought Fukuro

FF arc:
Natsu fought Laxus
Gray got stomped by Bickslow who was stomped by Lucy :O

Oracion Seis:
Natsu fought Cobra
Gray fought Racer and barely won, if Lyon wasn't there, he'd have been curbstomped to death.

Edolas Arc:
Natsu made Hughes piss his pants, then went on to fight Doroma Animu
Gray defeated the Rosa Espada guy

Tenroujima Arc:
Natsu defeated Zancrow, fought Kain Hikaru and Ultear
Gray defeated Ultear

GMG Arc:
Natsu soloed Sting and Rogue in base
Gray barely defeated Rufus, and needed Unison Raid to defeat Lyon

Sun Village Arc:
Natsu fought no one.
Gray fought Doriarte

Tartaros Arc:
Natsu defeated Jackal and Franmalth and is probably going to fight Tempesta
Gray defeated Silver who was holding back

This shows you that Natsu always fights the stronger opponents.
Your argument is invalid with ALL THIS EVIDENCE IN YOUR FACE.

3. So? Can you tell me how Ultear beats Zancrow? A sealed Zeref? How did you know how strong a sealed Zeref is? I guess she's stronger than Laxus then? Coz she defeated Ultear?

Umm, he howls? Ultear doesn't have the speed feats neither does she have tanking feats of taking that attack in her face.

A sealed Zeref was stated to be weak. You keep pushing this point when it's non-evident and useless in discussions. Tell me, how strong is a sealed Zeref? How did she defeat him?

Calling me biased doesn't make any of you right. Provide feats if you want your arguments to be taken into consideration. If you actually seem rational enough to me, I'll rub the feats in your face.

 

[Killuaa]

Fail, now you assume I hate Natsu? Thats hilarious, its called Im just stating tje obvious to who he cant beat. You're just wanking his Nakama Power Up Feats. They all have abilities that stomp Natsu, especially Jellal with his Sema

The fact that you made this thread shows that you're either ignorant, incapable of comparing feats, Natsu hater or simply someone who relies way too much on portrayal.

Umm. Really? You're just replying now because there are other people debating with me as well? Well, whatever. Since I don't like you very much, I'll show you how stupid your arguments are.

You're relying solely on portrayal when you make those statements. Show me actual combat feats that would actually put these people above Natsu, If i'm unable to reply to it without any sense of rationality, then I'll concede.

Jellal's Sema? LOL. Seriously? I won't deny that it will damage him severely, but Angel who was down for quite some time from urano metria survived endured it, was KOed then stood up almost immediately as well. That attack was all AOE and hype. Jellal needs a mid-diff to defeat Natsu

Jellal can decrease the scale of it, maybe to make it stronger, but we're going by a far stretch by assuming things like that.

 

[90sKids98]

The fact that you made this thread shows that you're either ignorant, incapable of comparing feats, Natsu hater or simply someone who relies way too much on portrayal.

Umm. Really? You're just replying now because there are other people debating with me as well? Well, whatever. Since I don't like you very much, I'll show you how stupid your arguments are.

You're relying solely on portrayal when you make those statements. Show me actual combat feats that would actually put these people above Natsu, If i'm unable to reply to it without any sense of rationality, then I'll concede.

Jellal's Sema? LOL. Seriously? I won't deny that it will damage him severely, but Angel who was down for quite some time from urano metria survived endured it, was KOed then stood up almost immediately as well. That attack was all AOE and hype. Jellal needs a mid-diff to defeat Natsu

Jellal can decrease the scale of it, maybe to make it stronger, but we're going by a far stretch by assuming things like that.

LoooL again I'm not hater, I just know tje eople who can actually defeat Natsu. Sema Knocked Out all 6 of the Oracion Seis, Natsu isnt going to get up after Sema soo.

Theres no point in arguing with someone who will use only his Nakama Power Ups to counter most characters.

 

[Killuaa]

LoooL again I'm not hater, I just know tje eople who can actually defeat Natsu. Sema Knocked Out all 6 of the Oracion Seis, Natsu isnt going to get up after Sema soo.

Theres no point in arguing with someone who will use only his Nakama Power Ups to counter most characters.

Sema knocked out 4. Brain was already dead beforehand while Hoteye chose not to fight.

How do you know them? Explain it to me. I feel like you're actually lowballing him at times.

Well, I agree with the last part, though his POF has limits as well.

 

[90sKids98]

Sema knocked out 4. Brain was already dead beforehand while Hoteye chose not to fight.

How do you know them? Explain it to me. I feel like you're actually lowballing him at times.

Well, I agree with the last part, though his POF has limits as well.

Again, If Sema can take out 4 People once it can probably take out Natsu alone.

BTW: Natsu didnt defeat Ultear during the Tenroujima Arc, she was stomping him. Natsu only defeated her during the Galuna Arc bc she could only use half her power

 

[Killuaa]

Again, If Sema can take out 4 People once it can probably take out Natsu alone.

BTW: Natsu didnt defeat Ultear during the Tenroujima Arc, she was stomping him. Natsu only defeated her during the Galuna Arc bc she could only use half her power

Sema has a large AOE, it can take out anybody that's in it's reach. Even if Erza was there, she would've taken just as much damage as Angel did. Though, her tanking abilities will help her shrug it off. Same thing happening with Natsu.

I didn't say he did, I said he fought her. Was I wrong?
Ultear was doing the same thing to Gray 'til POF came to serve him some good service. Her fight with Natsu wasn't the same because Natsu was without POF. I won't deny the fact that a no-POF Natsu is only equal to Gray at best, but as Erza once said, he has a power lying inside of him blah blah some POF bs.

 

[Killuaa]

4. again how will natsu counter her territory magic? you can't say he will win cause of his better base stats because she was able to keep up with erza and kagura both of which have way better strength and durability feats than natsu so plus how will he block her Ih Ragdo, or Yagdo Rigora? sorry but Minerva has the advantage over natsu

Magic advantage isn't everything. Look at Totomaru and Natsu. Okay, I'll take you up on that logic. What does Mard Geer have against Territory Magic? Since he hasn't been shown to have any, are you gonna say Minerva > Mard geer.

Minerva was hit by Kagura and Erza several times during their 3-way bout. The fact that they can both hit her means that it's not impossible to hit her.

No. Erza, I can agree with. Kagura? They probably have the same level of durability. Natsu tanked an Amaterasu 28, an attack that knocked out Laxus. He doesn't have to block it, Natsu has tanked attacks far more devastating than that. He tanked Laxus' roar, and Laxus' roar is easily much stronger than Yagdo Rigora, unless you wanna argue that Minerva has better stats when it comes to nukes than Laxus?

5.Orga has more magic power but Minerva has a better ability

Too bad he's not smart enough to use it wisely.

6.she can teleport her body away so the roar shouldn't even be a problem plus her max AOE has never been seen or stated

An attack's speed is almost instantaneous. She won't teleport unless she knows what's coming. She doesn't have the reaction speed feats to react to it.
By that logic, Gildarts can never hit her either, so she can also defeat him.

 

[Love Cook]

Well I think it was a bit too much natsu centered for a while.

This series started off with Lucy as the main character, and everything was being told from her perspective. But it seems like that has gone overboard and Natsu stole her spotlight pretty quick.

There was a main 4 with Erza, Lucy, Gray and Natsu after that, and Natsu showed way more growth than the other three. This became even more clear after the Phantom Lord arc when Gajeel joined the group.

With the recent Gray and Gajeel powerups I hope the balance will be restored, because the emphasis is a bit too much on Natsu nowadays. Also hope that Lucy just can control multiple keys, it really seems like that should be the least she could do. That isnt really a big deal compared to the monster feats everybody else has.

 

[mishoa]

I'm not wanking anybody, you're lowballing him coz you find him annoying or you like Gray more than him, I can see that as clear as the sun.
Terrible debater? None of my main points have been debunked yet, just because people are disagreeing with me doesn't make them right.
I've been debating over the internet for more than 5 years and I've encountered much more known debaters than your shitass arguments.

1. Silver never defeated a dragon, why don't you go back and check that it was just his spirit? That powerscaling is inaccurate. You're much more of a terrible debater than anybody I've ever encountered. Okay, his DC has nothing to do with it? Are you acting stupid or are you really that? DC is practically one of the biggest factors in a fight. That's never irrelevant. How do you know that? You're going off of a speculation by stating that. Gray fanboy, let me tell you something, NO. Gray never defeated anybody stronger than the one Natsu ends up fighting except for Galuna Island Arc which was centred on Gray. And Doriarte, when Natsu fought no relevant characters.

Lullaby Arc:
Natsu fought Erigor
Gray fought some unnamed fodder

Phantom Lord Arc:
Natsu fought Gajeel
Gray fought Juvia

TOH arc:
Natsu fought Jellal
Gray fought Fukuro

FF arc:
Natsu fought Laxus
Gray got stomped by Bickslow who was stomped by Lucy :O

Oracion Seis:
Natsu fought Cobra
Gray fought Racer and barely won, if Lyon wasn't there, he'd have been curbstomped to death.

Edolas Arc:
Natsu made Hughes piss his pants, then went on to fight Doroma Animu
Gray defeated the Rosa Espada guy

Tenroujima Arc:
Natsu defeated Zancrow, fought Kain Hikaru and Ultear
Gray defeated Ultear

GMG Arc:
Natsu soloed Sting and Rogue in base
Gray barely defeated Rufus, and needed Unison Raid to defeat Lyon

Sun Village Arc:
Natsu fought no one.
Gray fought Doriarte

Tartaros Arc:
Natsu defeated Jackal and Franmalth and is probably going to fight Tempesta
Gray defeated Silver who was holding back

This shows you that Natsu always fights the stronger opponents.
Your argument is invalid with ALL THIS EVIDENCE IN YOUR FACE.




Umm, he howls? Ultear doesn't have the speed feats neither does she have tanking feats of taking that attack in her face.

A sealed Zeref was stated to be weak. You keep pushing this point when it's non-evident and useless in discussions. Tell me, how strong is a sealed Zeref? How did she defeat him?

Calling me biased doesn't make any of you right. Provide feats if you want your arguments to be taken into consideration. If you actually seem rational enough to me, I'll rub the feats in your face.

lol what a loser I don't like grey I said gray defeats opponents stronger than him (I'm talking about gray)using logic and skill a lot of the time where did I say his opponents were stronger than Natsu's? but thanks for that long pointless list about something I wasn't even talking about and DC has nothing to do with THIS fight I didn't say DC wasn't important it is in certain situations but if the opponent has a hax skill than it doesn't matter for example if Goku fought somebody with intangibility it doesn't matter if he is stronger if he can't hit him and they can land attacks he will lose In this case Silver froze a whole village and a flame that lasted 400 years that had a dragon's spirit in it plus Natsu couldn't melt his ice...he also froze Natsu and a whole landscape in an instant and there is no reason he couldn't do it again....freezing someone and making them unable to battle is defeating them so I don't know why you insist sliver didn't beat him because he did and you're such a total noob you ignore anything that is stated or implied based off what is convenient for you like you say sealed Zeref is weak but he was about to kill everyone In one hit with his death magic if they didn't dodge that alone should be enough to tell you sealed Zeref wasn't weak Ultear just said he was weak compared to how he was in his prime and you told someone else that she wasn't the strongest Kin when in fact she was considering she somehow managed to beat him with that hax death magic and no other kin has shown abilities that could counter it yeah the fight was off screen but we got the result stop trying to downplay everything that's off panel

Throwing your contradicting feats in someone's face doesn't make you right either it just makes you an ******* and the only proof I need for that are the statements you made above.... you were arguing with me about points I didn't even make (gray's opponents being stronger than Natsu's and the importance of DC in battle)

 

[mishoa]

Magic advantage isn't everything. Look at Totomaru and Natsu. Okay, I'll take you up on that logic. What does Mard Geer have against Territory Magic? Since he hasn't been shown to have any, are you gonna say Minerva > Mard geer.

you are comparing Natsu to a way stronger character your logic is flawed I said Natsu himself doesn't have a way to counter territory Mard geer is on a whole different level with his base abilities

Minerva was hit by Kagura and Erza several times during their 3-way bout. The fact that they can both hit her means that it's not impossible to hit her.

did I say she was impossible to hit? but if she is 1v1 it will be easier for her to counter him than fighting two people in the same power class as her

No. Erza, I can agree with. Kagura? They probably have the same level of durability. Natsu tanked an Amaterasu 28, an attack that knocked out Laxus. He doesn't have to block it, Natsu has tanked attacks far more devastating than that. He tanked Laxus' roar, and Laxus' roar is easily much stronger than Yagdo Rigora, unless you wanna argue that Minerva has better stats when it comes to nukes than Laxus?

why do keep bringing up Amaterasu 28? it was a strong attack pre- time skip but has nothing to do with now considering all the old magic levels are outdated compared to the new ones and are you talking about laxus roar from when they fought way back in the festival arc? you can't even compare that to magic power levels today lol are you joking Yagdo Rigora is stronger than the festival arc roar for sure your so called feat in this case doesn't even help you Minerva shits on pre-time skip laxus sorry

Too bad he's not smart enough to use it wisely.

An attack's speed is almost instantaneous. She won't teleport unless she knows what's coming. She doesn't have the reaction speed feats to react to it.
By that logic, Gildarts can never hit her either, so she can also defeat him.

again you are using a character with stronger base states to compare to Natsu you are such a noob natsu does not have what it's takes to beat Minerva considering it took a Haxed erza armor to beat her unless you want to tell me Natsu is a strong as a Nakagami Erza.... yeah didn't think so

 

[Forbidden Tale]

He didn't defeat Atlas Flame, it was a spirit that wouldn't have been able to touch him. Wendy had to use Milky Way to summon his spirit. He didn't defeat the whole village, he froze them. Same way Evergreen turned Erza and Mirajane to stones. That's not one-shotting them. It was hax. If you're gonna give Silver the benefit of the doubt, give it to Evergreen too. But of course that makes too much holes which proves your logic incorrect.

I know he didn't go all out, but do you see the fact that Natsu can tank what Silver has been shown to produce? Natsu tanked Amaterasu 28, which is way way above Demon's Rage. Even if Silver spams him with that attack, Natsu will easily tank it. A steel ball can pierce through him, I doubt Natsu's punch can't simply damage him enough to incapacitation.

1. Frozing - defeating. In order for someone to be 'stoned' by Evergreen, he need to look at her eyes, but in Silvers' case it's different, he actually has to put effort in frozing. So him frozing someone is same as defeating someone.

2. Natsu already couldn't tank his ice, and was frozen.

3. Natsu had trouble against Franmalth (if i remember correctly, he couldn't defeat him alone), Franmalth pissed his pants in front of Silver.

4. I order for me to take you serious, please stop using 'you are wrong', 'your logic is wrong', it just make you look bad and that don't help you here at all.

Never directly. Are you gonna rank Jura above Gildarts now? Since Makarov said it too? You see? There are a lot of flaws in looking at portrayal and statements, sure it can be useful at certain situations, but when comparing who really is stronger, relying on statements won't get you very far.

I was refering to that, when I said that some of them are proven wrong. And actually, Makarov never stated that Jura is stronger than Gildarts he said that he is strong enough to rival Gildart's strength, which still can mean that he is quite below him.

Umm, you're using it as a reference, if it's not true, you can't use it as a proof for your points since it would lead to inaccuracy.
Because she was the eldest kin, not literally, the first kin that hades found, that was cannon.

Mirajane is Makarov's favorite since he's practically his assistance. When did he say this? Regardless, it doesn't matter, Makarov knows that Natsu needs to be completely serious in a fight for him to win it, and as you already know, Natsu only occasionally gets serious in fights, usually if it's for protecting people he cares about.

1. I never said that it's proof, I just stated my own opinion.
2. If I remember correctly just before GMG, when team A was not aware of team B.

I can, ranking him higher would lead to much more inaccuracy. As you said, it was off-paneled, therefore, we can't base our opinion in our imagination since some stupid people tend to think widely when it comes to those things.

Ok, I don't have problem with you ranking him above, but why you have problem with mine?

Reply to it if you don't want me to think so

To what?

They have been proven wrong. Let me show you the level of inaccuracy of relying on portrayal and statements alone.

We have a hype saying Gildarts is the strongest FT mage, and has always been portrayed to be, the series will probably end up with him still being the strongest, except for maybe, Natsu.

Statament - Gildarts is strongest Mage of FT.
Feats - He just defeated Bluenote
Statament - Jura is equal to Gildarts
Feats - Jura lost to Laxus (battle worn Laxus)

By feats I would actually said that there is possibility for Laxus to be stronger than Gildarts. Does that make it true? I don't think so.

So, from there, Gildarts > Laxus.

Makarov says Jura is equal to Gildarts.
Laxus beats Jura.

Gildarts can now be defeated by laxus?

If we are going by feats alone, maybe even yes. That's why hype/portrayel and statament come into play.

But, I even refer to this as statament that was wrong, I never said anything against that.

I'm the kind of guy who rely more on feats than anything else since it shows me the real difference between people. You know Erza will always be above Natsu in portrayal, right? Stop trying to only look at that and look at feats and you'll see how close they really are.

I never forced you to believe in what you don't want. Natsu > Erza, will be 'cannon' when we see opponents they fought in final battle.

Give feats to prove your statements, not just mere hypes. You'd be legit in other series like Bleach with statements using statements for power-scaling, but FT is different. A hype is just a hype and when you see the character fighting, you'll see them not living up to it. That's usually what happens there. If you really don't agree with using feats alone, then let's agree to disagree.

Actually, FT is manga with friendship as basic, in the first place, logical power level scaling don't exist, we saw that Natsu Erza lost to Cobra badly, but in the end Natsu beat him. So if you want to go with that, than power level in FT dont exist.

Fair enough, I will respect your view either way.

 

[Memento Mori]

Posts in this thread ...Unexpected

 

[Killuaa]

1. Frozing - defeating. In order for someone to be 'stoned' by Evergreen, he need to look at her eyes, but in Silvers' case it's different, he actually has to put effort in frozing. So him frozing someone is same as defeating someone.

2. Natsu already couldn't tank his ice, and was frozen.

3. Natsu had trouble against Franmalth (if i remember correctly, he couldn't defeat him alone), Franmalth pissed his pants in front of Silver.

4. I order for me to take you serious, please stop using 'you are wrong', 'your logic is wrong', it just make you look bad and that don't help you here at all.

1. Same way looking at someone's eyes who has no resistance to it is the same way of victory for Evergreen.
2. He coudn't, even Laxus can't tank that. It's absolute zero. Let's use bleach as a reference, do you think Byakuya can free himself if Rukia uses her bankai against him? Probably not.
3. Portrayal. Based on feats, Franmalth is the strongest demon gate. It's no shame that Natsu had trouble against him.
4. I order what? It's not making me look bad, I'm stating what I think is wrong and I am not wrong by doing so. I find holes in your logic and therefore, I feel the need to point it out. I apologize if you find it offensive.

I was refering to that, when I said that some of them are proven wrong. And actually, Makarov never stated that Jura is stronger than Gildarts he said that he is strong enough to rival Gildart's strength, which still can mean that he is quite below him.

He said they were on the same level, so technically the same. I never said that Makarov said that Jura was stronger.

1. I never said that it's proof, I just stated my own opinion.
2. If I remember correctly just before GMG, when team A was not aware of team B.

1. That's why I'm saying it's wrong since it's unproven. Though, I would agree with you that when it comes to portrayal, Ultear may as well be stronger than Erza.
2. I don't see why it matters?

Ok, I don't have problem with you ranking him above, but why you have problem with mine?

Coz as I've said before, I based things on feats and Minerva's feats against Erza and kagura outclass what Orga has shown.

Statament - Gildarts is strongest Mage of FT.
Feats - He just defeated Bluenote
Statament - Jura is equal to Gildarts
Feats - Jura lost to Laxus (battle worn Laxus)

By feats I would actually said that there is possibility for Laxus to be stronger than Gildarts. Does that make it true? I don't think so.

No, by feats, Gildarts defeats Laxus.
Bluenote is still in the same tier as Laxus. Gildarts one-shotted him with a city-busting punch the moment he got back his Magical Power. I don't deem them to be in the same tier may it be based on feats or portrayal.

I never forced you to believe in what you don't want. Natsu > Erza, will be 'cannon' when we see opponents they fought in final battle.

Fair enough. The portrayal will always betray feats though.

Actually, FT is manga with friendship as basic, in the first place, logical power level scaling don't exist, we saw that Natsu Erza lost to Cobra badly, but in the end Natsu beat him. So if you want to go with that, than power level in FT dont exist.

I agree about the POF part, that's why I choose to include it in my powerscaling since I believe even natsu or Erza's POF have their limits. As for Cobra, no, he never soloed Erza. At that time, Erza was fighting Racer and Cobra, then Hoteye even joined them to make an opening for Cobra's poison. I don't deem that victory of Natsu actually fair, in a real combat basis, that doesn't really classify as a feat as it's highly conditional and will likely never happen again.

Fair enough, I will respect your view either way.

 

[Dãrth1]

1. Same way looking at someone's eyes who has no resistance to it is the same way of victory for Evergreen.
2. He coudn't, even Laxus can't tank that. It's absolute zero. Let's use bleach as a reference, do you think Byakuya can free himself if Rukia uses her bankai against him? Probably not.
3. Portrayal. Based on feats, Franmalth is the strongest demon gate. It's no shame that Natsu had trouble against him.
4. I order what? It's not making me look bad, I'm stating what I think is wrong and I am not wrong by doing so. I find holes in your logic and therefore, I feel the need to point it out. I apologize if you find it offensive.



He said they were on the same level, so technically the same. I never said that Makarov said that Jura was stronger.




1. That's why I'm saying it's wrong since it's unproven. Though, I would agree with you that when it comes to portrayal, Ultear may as well be stronger than Erza.
2. I don't see why it matters?




Coz as I've said before, I based things on feats and Minerva's feats against Erza and kagura outclass what Orga has shown.



No, by feats, Gildarts defeats Laxus.
Bluenote is still in the same tier as Laxus. Gildarts one-shotted him with a city-busting punch the moment he got back his Magical Power. I don't deem them to be in the same tier may it be based on feats or portrayal.



Fair enough. The portrayal will always betray feats though.



I agree about the POF part, that's why I choose to include it in my powerscaling since I believe even natsu or Erza's POF have their limits. As for Cobra, no, he never soloed Erza. At that time, Erza was fighting Racer and Cobra, then Hoteye even joined them to make an opening for Cobra's poison. I don't deem that victory of Natsu actually fair, in a real combat basis, that doesn't really classify as a feat as it's highly conditional and will likely never happen again.

You're overhyping Natsu too much...

 

[Killuaa]

you are comparing Natsu to a way stronger character your logic is flawed I said Natsu himself doesn't have a way to counter territory Mard geer is on a whole different level with his base abilities

I was using your logic. What does Mard Geer have to counter it? You're hyping it way too much to actually lowball Natsu. You're not allowed to debate if you can't keep your biasedness out of this. I do know that Mard Geer is way above, but a hax is just that, a hax. Doesn't necessarily make it unbeatable.

did I say she was impossible to hit? but if she is 1v1 it will be easier for her to counter him than fighting two people in the same power class as her

I never said you did, you just seemed like you were letting off some air about Minerve being way too fast to be hit since she kept up with Erza and Minerva.

why do keep bringing up Amaterasu 28? it was a strong attack pre- time skip but has nothing to do with now considering all the old magic levels are outdated compared to the new ones and are you talking about laxus roar from when they fought way back in the festival arc? you can't even compare that to magic power levels today lol are you joking Yagdo Rigora is stronger than the festival arc roar for sure your so called feat in this case doesn't even help you Minerva shits on pre-time skip laxus sorry

Because Natsu tanked it? Are you serious? Are you one of those people who only watch the anime? Natsu did tank it. Franmalth with hades soul used Amaterasu 28 and he tanked it, took a boulder and use it to KO franmalth.

Laxus' roar is still a cut above the rest compared to any of Minerva's nuke. Laxus is still above Current Erza based on feats. You're stupid if you can't compare feats compared to other feats. There aren't that much difference between time-skips if you base it on feats. If you're gonna blurt out Max, no. Natsu fought him without POF, if he had gained it back then, he would've obliterated him. If you can't see that, I'm not gonna reply to your next post unless it has some sort of rationality which this post doesn't seem to have.

And no, Kagura was fighting and was defeated by Erza that still had the same power pre-TS. pre-TS Erza is below pre-TS Laxus. Sorry, but pre-TS Laxus is above Kagura. Kagura who was more or less on the same level with Minerva.

again you are using a character with stronger base states to compare to Natsu you are such a noob natsu does not have what it's takes to beat Minerva considering it took a Haxed erza armor to beat her unless you want to tell me Natsu is a strong as a Nakagami Erza.... yeah didn't think so

You are such a biased poker. Are you serious? We're talking about speed, if you're gonna call someone a noob, make sure you're aware of what's the topic at hand. Okay, little boy? or girl, whatever you are. No, Erza defeated Minerva with bare fists when she was not exhausted. Guess you don't know about that either, do you? Erza was just exhausted after her fight with Kagura, that was the only reason why Minerva had the upper hand.

 

[Killuaa]

You're overhyping Natsu too much...

I'm going by feats? Hyping is when I don't have anything to back up my claims, sorry, but I have them.

 

[Killuaa]

lol what a loser I don't like grey I said gray defeats opponents stronger than him (I'm talking about gray)using logic and skill a lot of the time where did I say his opponents were stronger than Natsu's?

1. Silver beat a dragon something which Natsu can't do currently so Sliver>Natsu and current gray>natsu since he has silvers powers ( but I'm sure natsu is about to get another ass pull power up so I'll wait on that) Natsu having a lot of DC has nothing to do with winning this battle haxed or not ice demon slayer magic>fire dragon slayer magic and grey always beats people stronger than him with brains so now that he has ice demon slayer magic I just don't natsu can keep up

Read your previous posts before you deny things.

but thanks for that long pointless list about something I wasn't even talking about and DC has nothing to do with THIS fight I didn't say DC wasn't important it is in certain situations but if the opponent has a hax skill than it doesn't matter for example if Goku fought somebody with intangibility it doesn't matter if he is stronger if he can't hit him and they can land attacks he will lose

Pointless list? You needed it to wake up from your dream. DC? DC always matters. I don't know where you get this idea that it doesn't from. No, Goku can hit someone with intangibility if he blasts them, just because they're intangible doesn't mean they're untouchable. There are limits to hax. There are only a few characters in the manga/anime universe whose hax doesn't have those limits.

In this case Silver froze a whole village and a flame that lasted 400 years that had a dragon's spirit in it plus Natsu couldn't melt his ice...

he also froze Natsu and a whole landscape in an instant and there is no reason he couldn't do it again....freezing someone and making them unable to battle is defeating them so I don't know why you insist sliver didn't beat him because he did and you're such a total noob you ignore anything that is stated or implied based off what is convenient for you like

Don't you know any other word than noob? It kinda feels like I'm talking to a 11 year old here. Well, did they fight face-to-face? No. He froze him. Did I deny that? I'm not making excuses, I'm making explanations since some people like you just go by what is seen first and ignore the reasons why it happens.

you say sealed Zeref is weak but he was about to kill everyone In one hit with his death magic if they didn't dodge that alone should be enough to tell you sealed Zeref wasn't weak Ultear just said he was weak compared to how he was in his prime and you told someone else that she wasn't the strongest Kin when in fact she was considering she somehow managed to beat him with that hax death magic and no other kin has shown abilities that could counter it yeah the fight was off screen but we got the result stop trying to downplay everything that's off panel

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT? I never once stated that Ultear didn't defeat a sealed Zeref, and yes, based on portrayal Ultear may be the strongest, but basing it on feats, she's below Azuma and Zancrow.

Yes, and Natsu took it. So? What does this prove? I just said it's off-paneled and we didn't see what happened, what did I downplay?

Throwing your contradicting feats in someone's face doesn't make you right either it just makes you an ******* and the only proof I need for that are the statements you made above.... you were arguing with me about points I didn't even make (gray's opponents being stronger than Natsu's and the importance of DC in battle)

Whatever you say. You were arguing about everything I contradicted you with. I wouldn't talk about irrelevant stuff in the midst of a discussion like this.

If you want me to show you feats that proves my statements, I can give you them. Ask for it, but be ready to debunk them.

 

[mishoa]

lol what a loser I don't like grey I said gray defeats opponents stronger than him (I'm talking about gray)using logic and skill a lot of the time where did I say his opponents were stronger than Natsu's?



Read your previous posts before you deny things.




Pointless list? You needed it to wake up from your dream. DC? DC always matters. I don't know where you get this idea that it doesn't from. No, Goku can hit someone with intangibility if he blasts them, just because they're intangible doesn't mean they're untouchable. There are limits to hax. There are only a few characters in the manga/anime universe whose hax doesn't have those limits.




Don't you know any other word than noob? It kinda feels like I'm talking to a 11 year old here. Well, did they fight face-to-face? No. He froze him. Did I deny that? I'm not making excuses, I'm making explanations since some people like you just go by what is seen first and ignore the reasons why it happens.




WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT? I never once stated that Ultear didn't defeat a sealed Zeref, and yes, based on portrayal Ultear may be the strongest, but basing it on feats, she's below Azuma and Zancrow.

Yes, and Natsu took it. So? What does this prove? I just said it's off-paneled and we didn't see what happened, what did I downplay?



Whatever you say. You were arguing about everything I contradicted you with. I wouldn't talk about irrelevant stuff in the midst of a discussion like this.

If you want me to show you feats that proves my statements, I can give you them. Ask for it, but be ready to debunk them.

I'm kinda done with you but I just want to point out a couple things

1. uhh no goku can't hit somebody if they have intangibility since the definition is the ability to pass through matter (untouchable) witch includes psychical and energy attacks so I don't know what you were trying to prove because he wouldn't be able to beat someone like Shadowcat from x men or Flash from DC since they phase their atoms around other atoms and since everything is made of atoms there is no way he could ever hit them

2. you honestly think if Natsu was at his strongest in LFD and facing Silver ready to fight the result would have been any different? I'm actually just really curious why you would think that

3. correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Natsu only survive because his scarf was able to nullify it? and after it took one attack it became black and unusable so I wouldn't say he took it as it had nothing to do with natsu's abilities

4. again I'm going to say this one last time your power scaling/feats way of arguing is flawed if you don't even take portrayal/statements into consideration feats/powerscaling don't work if they contradict the authors intentions like I see people make this mistake all the time with DBZ characters by some of goku's feats you could powerscale him as being able to push planets with his barehands or being faster than the speed of light both of which are impossible for him (the second one impossible in general) as his portrayal contradicts these feats because by the time he fights cell or buu going by feats the fight alone should tear the planet apart but it doesn't to ignore the manga artists intentions for his own characters is self defeating as you think you know more than the person who created the story Ultear stated she was the strongest Kin and there is absolutely no reason why we should't believe that statement I'm not saying ignore feats but to ignore everything else just seems ignorant

 

[90sKids98]

At least I proved my point :]

 

[Team7monaa]

He is 3rd Strongest in his Team
1.Lucy (CSK)
2.Erza (Second Origin)
3.Natsu (DF)
4.Gray(Demon Ice Slayer)
5.Wendy (DF)