Naruto's ignorance.

[Bijuu Bomber]

Change the avatar you don't deserve it.

C'mon Tim. We need more Sasuke in this forum.

It's all for the greater good...

 

[MetalGundam]

C'mon Tim. We need more Sasuke in this forum.

It's all for the greater good...

You know, other characters need fanbases too. Hiruzen for example could use a friendly boost.

 

[Bijuu Bomber]

You know, other characters need fanbases too. Hiruzen for example could use a friendly boost.

I know. We need more Iruka Umino fans here. He needs it.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Everything caterpillar has said is right on point , she is 100 % right . Dattebayo this .

Yep,Naruto is incredibly naive to the point where I feel it makes him lose perspective at times.

 

[Cosman]

Yes, character development when intense and life changing scenes happen is totally annoying.. I mean.. it's not like Obito hasn't been seeing Naruto as himself this whole time.. Nor that Sasuke has been lied to several times, and experienced pains Nardo couldn't imagine... And is now moving past it... You're right! All characters should stay stale and the same... Even if they're a cliche.

I'm sorry... Sasuke hearing the same story twice and then switching his ideal to hokage-bruhhhh is not exactly a life changing scene. I mean technically it is, but its kind of a lame one.

We're not talking about moving past moments, we're talking about flat out retardation with these guys.

"My brother is dead and he worked his ass off to save the village... Let's **** it all up... For nii-san!" <--- Sausage

"Huh? The peace I imagined with my best friend is a lie? Let's just work on making a dream world that has about as much chance at being successful as my testicle growing its own pair of testicles" <--- Madara

"Rin is dead? I'm totally not doing all this for her. I mean, I'll continue to reference her while I continue my plans, but this has nothing to do with her!" <--- Obito.

I think it's high time everybody realized that after the pain arc, every major player in this story got shat on.

But yeah, Naruto's got his own load of shortcomings. Truthfully, I think his character is the easiest to fix. Simply blow up the prophecy and have him fail rather harshly while finally giving him a better understanding of what they're really fighting for. Technically Sasuke's character is easy as hell to fix, but it involves his own arc to actually explain some of this shit.

 

[Optimistic]

C'mon Tim. We need more Sasuke in this forum.

It's all for the greater good...

he's not a Sasuke fan he must change it now!

 

[Bijuu Bomber]

he's not a Sasuke fan he must change it now!

In due time he will join the Sasuke side.

Let him have a feel of the Sasuke, and maybe he'll be converted. Walking a mile begins with a single step.

 

[paratise]

You know, other characters need fanbases too. Hiruzen for example could use a friendly boost.

Surprising and lucky how the other villages did not decimate Konoha or peel the village like an onion during Hiruzen's reign.

And he has some fanboys who believe he is gonna be top 10.

 

[Cosman]

he's not a Sasuke fan he must change it now!

Just for that... I'm keeping it indefinitely. And every time I talk smack about Sausage, I'll sign it like this

"Sasuke is a _____"

~ 'Sup tim :snick:

Spoiler

I'll be changing soon enough, just let me have ma fun

 

[Awkward Linguist]

That will probably never happen.


I am just expressing opinions...which can differ to anyone's.

I know; that's why i said such nonsense.

 

[MetalGundam]

I'm sorry... Sasuke hearing the same story twice and then switching his ideal to hokage-bruhhhh is not exactly a life changing scene. I mean technically it is, but its kind of a lame one.

We're not talking about moving past moments, we're talking about flat out retardation with these guys.

"My brother is dead and he worked his ass off to save the village... Let's **** it all up... For nii-san!" <--- Sausage

"Huh? The peace I imagined with my best friend is a lie? Let's just work on making a dream world that has about as much chance at being successful as my testicle growing its own pair of testicles" <--- Madara

"Rin is dead? I'm totally not doing all this for her. I mean, I'll continue to reference her while I continue my plans, but this has nothing to do with her!" <--- Obito.

I think it's high time everybody realized that after the pain arc, every major player in this story got shat on.

Lol. You're not even bothering to look at it from their perspectives, are you?

I think I'll start with Sasuke... Him wanting to destroy the village AFTER being lied to by them for his entire life, basically brain washed to hate Itachi and then finally kills him to "avenge" his clan.. only to find out Itachi was the one who loved him the most, and that Konoha was the one directly responsable for the destruction of his clan really is something to make Sasuke want to go after Konoha for.

It's be insane to imagine him simply saying "Well..They made my life Hell.. And in the end Itach igot nothing... Oh well." Specially considering he already cut his ties with the village a few years prior. So..Yeah, no.

Rin's death was the realization of the shinobi world, for Obito. Happiness and such was not a true goal. I won't pretend to be a fan of it, as there are instances where Obito shows it's a major reason is Rin. She IS the driving force of it. But, his eyes were opened up to a nightmare-ish world. Understandable to an extent. And, considering he heard there was a way to regroup with Rin and everyone through some Genjutsu.. Yeah, sure seems like a good idea to the already fragile mind of the Uchiha.

Madara-Moot. We need more infromation on him, but.... It's pretty much the death of all his sbilings and inability to protect Izuna, the reveal of the tablet that all of reality was pointless, Yadada... I don't care for Madara. He IS poorly done. Bash him, as the ****s I give aren't existent enough to defend his character

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Just for that... I'm keeping it indefinitely. And every time I talk smack about Sausage, I'll sign it like this

"Sasuke is a _____"

~ 'Sup tim :snick:

Spoiler

I'll be changing soon enough, just let me have ma fun

I'd say keep the Sasuke ava since it'll throw people off.

 

[Cosman]

Lol. You're not even bothering to look at it from their perspectives, are you?

I think I'll start with Sasuke... Him wanting to destroy the village AFTER being lied to by them for his entire life, basically brain washed to hate Itachi and then finally kills him to "avenge" his clan.. only to find out Itachi was the one who loved him the most, and that Konoha was the one directly responsable for the destruction of his clan really is something to make Sasuke want to go after Konoha for.

It's be insane to imagine him simply saying "Well..They made my life Hell.. And in the end Itach igot nothing... Oh well." Specially considering he already cut his ties with the village a few years prior. So..Yeah, no.

You see, I'd accept that if we didn't see him pull some of the most outrageous shit you could talk about. What purpose did attacking Bee have for his plans? We saw him completely forsake his original ideal on sparing the innocent after one talk with Obito.

I'm not saying his decent into madness was unreasonable, I'm saying the way Kishi played it off was horrid. Sasuke flat out said he would go to the summit and kill every Kage. World leaders that have nothing to do with Konoha. We saw him proclaim to the heavens that he would murder every person and listen to their screams. Innocent people that had nothing to do with the Uchiha massacre as he did.

The realism in his attitude is his madness. The ridiculous part is how Kishi plays that off. How he pushes Sasuke into this decent into darkness motif just have it dropped later. This man killed innocents, joined a criminal organization that is now plotting to destroy the world, and he believes he can be hokage.

How on earth is that any better than Naruto's rhetoric. Where is the realism here? Where's the logic? Sasuke's belief is that simply switching his hatred from one thing to another can alleviate the pain, and I'm sorry, that's every bit as naive and self destructive as Naruto's thinking.

But I actually like that switching his hatred thing. That mental damage control he does. I think it's when Sasuke is most vulnerable, which I will admit is kind of nice to see. I'm not ignoring his harsh life, but I can't deny the issues there too.

Rin's death was the realization of the shinobi world, for Obito. Happiness and such was not a true goal. I won't pretend to be a fan of it, as there are instances where Obito shows it's a major reason is Rin. She IS the driving force of it. But, his eyes were opened up to a nightmare-ish world. Understandable to an extent. And, considering he heard there was a way to regroup with Rin and everyone through some Genjutsu.. Yeah, sure seems like a good idea to the already fragile mind of the Uchiha.

I can agree on that part. Obito's reasoning is not Rin alone, however, it would be great if he didn't talk about her so much. We never saw Obito look at the world after Rin's death, we never saw him contemplate other avenues (much like Naruto never did that). Rin chose her death, and Obito ignored that. Deciding to take things to absolute extremes in his demented vision of world peace.

I find that interesting enough as a villain, but let's not play the realism or logic card here. None of that makes sense either. I mean Obito died, and his friends accepted that. He made a conscious decision to die that they respected and understood. The proof being Kakashi accepting that eye of his.

A lot of logic gaps here. A lot of redundancy in his dialogue as well.

Madara-Moot. We need more infromation on him, but.... It's pretty much the death of all his sbilings and inability to protect Izuna, the reveal of the tablet that all of reality was pointless, Yadada... I don't care for Madara. He IS poorly done. Bash him, as the ****s I give aren't existent enough to defend his character

We'll see. We'll see...

All I'm trying to say here is moronic ideologies, inherently flawed approaches, and redundant speeches is not a Naruto exclusive thing. They're all ****ed in most of the same ways. Reality.

 

[LO3]

This thread is so true; Naruto is such an ignorant child. Even after all of the lectures and lessons he's got from people (Ex: Jiraiya, Kakashi, Pain, Itachi), his ignorance still prevails! He doesn't learn diddly-squat, still thinking everything in the world can be remedied with his "Never Give Up!" concept and My Little Pony "friendship is magic" complex.

Naruto is just another Goku - a powerhouse without any effective morals and little to no understanding of the world.

 

[Sot6p]

Kishimoto made him in a way that he wouldn't be smart. It's not that he is as stupid as he's shown... because this is just a manga, so the author had to make the fact obvious. All we know is that he's not smart. And naive.

And he has a dream that requires being smart.
It also requires being strong.

Can you see little Naruto doing this without anyone around him?

Naruto is about being a character to inspire others. Him being dead last in part 1 was just a minor part of it, for instance.
His prophecy was ONLY that. That's why Jiraiya said that the CHILD(naive) of prophecy would have to go through a lot of difficulties.


Look, this is a manga.
Not reality.
Besides, it appears they have something we don't.
They have chakra to understand each other.
So how can we compare our worlds?

You're also looking at it as someone from the western civilization.
Do we know how to look at this manga from the Japanese POV? I surely don't.

 

[Raekwon26]

I so badly want to interject. =D

 

[Cosman]

I so badly want to interject. =D

Go for it, my dude :snick:

 

[Optimistic]

Just for that... I'm keeping it indefinitely. And every time I talk smack about Sausage, I'll sign it like this

"Sasuke is a _____"

~ 'Sup tim :snick:

Spoiler

I'll be changing soon enough, just let me have ma fun

As you wish remember, Sasuke will forgive your sins all you must do is repent.

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[Cosman]

As you wish remember, Sasuke will forgive your sins all you must do is repent.

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[Hebi Sasuke]

That's the reason Sasuke was always a better character in my opinion...He is more human. Naruto's philosophy of life is just not realistic. But what the heck,it's all imagination.