Naruto without Kurama

[wanderingcactus]

So lots have been saying that everything great about Naruto is solely due to Kurama (mostly Sasuke fappers)

They back it up with "oh Kurama saved Naruto from being fatally injured/killed multiple times" which is correct.

However I'm completely baffled by the fact that when they get hit in the face with "yeah its also Kurama's fault" they just neglect that fact and go straight to fapping and abandoning all logic.

So with that said.. How is it so hard for people to get the idea that Naruto wouldve easily been the greatest ninja of his generation without Kurama?

Kurama has been an antagonist a loooooong loooong time ago like thats how the whole series started ~ with the demon fox. Hey only until recently when that all switch over and Naruto finally got Kurama to stop resisting him (real case of Stockholm syndrome I'd say)

So why is it not plausable/illogical to think that Naruto would NOT be a failure if Kurama wasnt in him?

Say Kushina didnt die. Itachi didnt go through with the whole Uchiha murder and told 3rd about Tobi's plan about releasing the demon fox from Kushina and everything was prevented.

Kushina is still jin, Minato is still alive and doing his job as 4th, Naruto isnt shunned by everyone and perhaps loved by the entire village.

We'd see Naruto controlling his chakra even better (considering that he had to control Kurama's chakra while still a kid and Kurama fighting back this is still prominent all the way to war arc ~ confirmed all the way to Pein arc when trying Sage mode)

Perhaps he wouldnt have learned Shadow Clones but he wouldve learned Minato's tech and Uzumaki clan fuinjustus. Still proabably trained under Jman to get Sage mode.

Sasuke's main motivation at that point would be to be on Naruto's level in which I would think it isnt farfetched that Itachi would be the one teaching him/Team 7 instead of Kakashi.

 

[Deadlift]

Without Kurama he would've been killed by Haku at the very beginning

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

The only person Naruto has beat without Kurama's help is Kiba in the Chuunin Exams

Without him he would be long dead back in his fight against Sasuke

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But I wont deny that Naruto would still be a relatively strong shinobi even without Kurama, due to his Sage Mastery, and Uzimaki Lineage.

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

Without Kurama he would've been killed by Haku at the very beginning

lmao true

 

[SenseiSama]

He's Ashura's transmigrant, without Kurama the author would have given him another power-up that is more natural like Mokuton. And his Sage Mode was already strong enough to fight 1v1 against the strongest bijuu even though he was only 15.

During the time he was unlocking KCM the author hinted that SM Naruto would have been on Hashi's level without Kurama, that means that BSM Naruto would have surpassed Hashirama like EMS Sasuke surpassing Madara since Yin = Yang.

 

[wanderingcactus]

Without Kurama he would've been killed by Haku at the very beginning

yeah but I said without Kurama... his patheticness came from Kurama trying to get Naruto killed as much as possible so he can escape or at least take control of him like Shukaku did with Gaara.

I think hell be very talented in ninjutsu but probably crappy in taijutsu (considering he had to compensate with his nonexistant ninjustsu due to his shitty chakra control at a very young age)

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

He's Ashura's transmigrant, without Kurama the author would have given him another power-up that is more natural like Mokuton. And his Sage Mode was already strong enough to fight 1v1 against the strongest bijuu even though he was only 15.

The authorhinted that SM Naruto would have been on Hashi's level without Kurama, and that means that BSM Naruto would have surpassed Hashirama like EMS Sasuke surpassing Madara since Yin = Yang.

So basically you're stating the obvious, that Kishi would have gave him some sort of Plot Armor irregardless since he is the main character.

 

[Jokule67]

My main issue is people saying without Kurama Naruto would have lost to Pain.
The truth is without Kuramas interference Naruto would beat Pain easier. Anyone ask me why then I'll elaborate. If not move along.

I will say that without Kurama and Uchiha massacre, neither Sasuke nor Naruto would be as strong as they are now. They simply used tgs main character cheat

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

yeah but I said without Kurama... his patheticness came from Kurama trying to get Naruto killed as much as possible so he can escape or at least take control of him like Shukaku did with Gaara.

I think hell be very talented in ninjutsu but probably crappy in taijutsu (considering he had to compensate with his nonexistant ninjustsu due to his shitty chakra control at a very young age)

You need more evidence before you can just say that Naruto's lack of skill comes from Kurama's influence on him.

 

[Jokule67]

So basically you're stating the obvious, that Kishi would have gave him some sort of Plot Armor irregardless since he is the main character.

A duh man main characters get special treatment just ask Ichigo the walking Chimera of Bleach lol

 

[HashiraMadara SenjUchiha]

He's Ashura's transmigrant, without Kurama the author would have given him another power-up that is more natural like Mokuton. And his Sage Mode was already strong enough to fight 1v1 against the strongest bijuu even though he was only 15.

During the time he was unlocking KCM the author hinted that SM Naruto would have been on Hashi's level without Kurama, that means that BSM Naruto would have surpassed Hashirama like EMS Sasuke surpassing Madara since Yin = Yang.

I stopped reading there. You obviously have no idea who Hashi is

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

My main issue is people saying without Kurama Naruto would have lost to Pain.
The truth is without Kuramas interference Naruto would beat Pain easier. Anyone ask me why then I'll elaborate. If not move along.

I will say that without Kurama and Uchiha massacre, neither Sasuke nor Naruto would be as strong as they are now. They simply used tgs main character cheat

It would seem that with his own power alone he defeated most of them and lost to Tendo, dont see how he would defeat Tendo if it were not for Kurama's interference but Ill let you elaborate if you so wish.

And also whether Sasuke/Naruto would be stronger/weaker if things were different is a matter of opinion.

 

[wanderingcactus]

He's Ashura's transmigrant, without Kurama the author would have given him another power-up that is more natural like Mokuton. And his Sage Mode was already strong enough to fight 1v1 against the strongest bijuu even though he was only 15.

During the time he was unlocking KCM the author hinted that SM Naruto would have been on Hashi's level without Kurama, that means that BSM Naruto would have surpassed Hashirama like EMS Sasuke surpassing Madara since Yin = Yang.

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nice to see someone here actually have some brains..

Normally im neutral about all this but lean towards more to Sasuke since he doesnt spam his techs and only his personality is crap.

But I find myself defending Naruto more and more because there are so many unreasonable Sasuke fappers and I really hate to be associated with that group..

They still say "without Kurama Naruto wouldve died a long time ago" when clearly its really Kurama's fault that he finds himself in a situation like that.

He should be as talented as Sasuke if not more.

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

I stopped reading there. You obviously have no idea who Hashi is

lmao same like wtf lol

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

A duh man main characters get special treatment just ask Ichigo the walking Chimera of Bleach lol

I know I was just wondering why he was stating something so obvious.

 

[Deadlift]

yeah but I said without Kurama... his patheticness came from Kurama trying to get Naruto killed as much as possible so he can escape or at least take control of him like Shukaku did with Gaara.

I think hell be very talented in ninjutsu but probably crappy in taijutsu (considering he had to compensate with his nonexistant ninjustsu due to his shitty chakra control at a very young age)

Without Kurama he would never have been bullied and isolated by people at young age, so he would have developed a way different personality.. So we really can't see, maybe he would've been more similar to Minato... But anyway Kurama is crucial for the character, youu have no Naruto if you don't have Kurama

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

Without Kurama he would never have been bullied and isolated by people at young age, so he would have developed a way different personality.. So we really can't see, maybe he would've been more similar to Minato... But anyway Kurama is crucial for the character, youu have no Naruto if you don't have Kurama

Yeah I agree, If Naruto was raised differently he may or may not have developed more skill, however Kurama's addition to the story is too important, he was basically a main character in P1 and some of P2

 

[SenseiSama]

yeah but I said without Kurama... his patheticness came from Kurama trying to get Naruto killed as much as possible so he can escape or at least take control of him like Shukaku did with Gaara.

I think hell be very talented in ninjutsu but probably crappy in taijutsu (considering he had to compensate with his nonexistant ninjustsu due to his shitty chakra control at a very young age)

Actually his patheticness came from the fact he had huge amounts of chakra which would be extremely difficult to control even for prodigies, he always had talent but not the body to utilize his talent.

Nobody his age would have the ability to gain full control over Kurama's power so he had to keep training until his body was developed enough to control it in a natural manner, kinda like how you gotta wait until you're going through puberty to be able to start body building.

So basically you're stating the obvious, that Kishi would have gave him some sort of Plot Armor irregardless since he is the main character.

Nope, I'm stating he's Ashura's transmigrant, even without Kurama he had the potential to reach Hashi's level, Kurama just gave him the potential to surpass that level like Itachi's eyes giving Sasuke the potential to surpass Madara's.

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

Actually his patheticness came from the fact he had huge amounts of chakra which would be extremely difficult to control even for prodigies. Nobody his age would have the body or the skill to master Kurama's level of power so he had to keep training until his body was developed enough could control it in a natural manner, kinda like how you gotta wait until you're going through puberty to start body building.



Nope, I'm stating he's Ashura's transmigrant, even without Kurama he had the potential to reach Hashi's level, Kurama just gave him the potential to surpass that level like Itachi's eyes giving Sasuke the potential to surpass Madara's.

I dont think you understand how strong Hashirama is and how far fetched it is to say that Naruto would reach that level without Kuramas help, but I wont deny that it is a possibility I guess.

 

[wanderingcactus]

It would seem that with his own power alone he defeated most of them and lost to Tendo, dont see how he would defeat Tendo if it were not for Kurama's interference but Ill let you elaborate if you so wish.

And also whether Sasuke/Naruto would be stronger/weaker if things were different is a matter of opinion.

I mightve open a can of worms here.

they do have a point when they bring up the massacre and kurama ordeal making them stronger but I'd also like to think about the other route.

Thats why I brought this thread up in the 1st place.

So as stated before, Tobi was stopped right there and then and Itachi never massacred anybody and everything is great. The hate on the village and Uchiha had finally subsided.

So, youd have Naruto with no Kurama to hold him back and get him killed as much as possible. Naruto would have his parents and obviously be beloved by all since hes the son of the hokage.

Itachi wouldnt have turned rogue and be there for Sasuke. Sasuke would probably be taken under Itachi's wing in some point.

So I dont really think taking out the massacre/kurama out of the equation makes them less stronger than what they were at that point. Id say they might even be better off.

They probably have more arsenal to defeat Pein.

Certainly Naruto would ( possible that he wont have Shadow Clones) also Team 7 wouldnt have split up in the first place.

At best, wed probably see a Sarada-Boruto kind of relationship going on with those two.

If Naruto beat almost all the paths of Pein just by his OWN power, imagine when he isnt spamming only 2 techs and has Sasuke as back up (pressumably under Itachi's tutelage)