[VS] Naruto vs Minato with edo powers
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Gold Lightning
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BM Naruto is basically BSM Naruto with FTG (op much?). Naruto is more powerful and has more fire power, but his father is more skilled, smarter and faster.
And with s/t barrier and ftg, Naruto is gonna find it hard to touch Minato. Minato also has sealing jutsu. Whether Minato can undo naruto seal is debatable - it does seem to be a possibility.
So yeah, Minato for the win.
And with s/t barrier and ftg, Naruto is gonna find it hard to touch Minato. Minato also has sealing jutsu. Whether Minato can undo naruto seal is debatable - it does seem to be a possibility.
So yeah, Minato for the win.
No, Naruto used tajuu kagebunshin. Kiba was implied to be only capable of one kagebunshin which is why
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And kiba wouldn't need max chakra reserves near that of naruto's to use more than one. And since naruto's chakra control was crap back then, then obviously it's not about chakra control, it's about skill with the technique.if it doesn't split up your chakra, then wouldn't that means you could make even more mokuton clones than kagebunshins?
If Minato has no control over its explosion, then how would he have control over the explosions of any of the projectiles that he warps away when naruto fires it at him? wouldn't all of them simply explode at whatever location he sends the attack to?
Then that proves my point that using FTG with a clone is slower than with the original does it not? In addition to that, Tobirama made that statement about KCM minato who can make KCM clones which far surpass base clones, yet are unable to use FTG as fast as base minato (who's FTG is better than tobirama's).
No, Tobirama was speaking on minato's behalf, he said
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which is why Hashirama was needed to try and push the other two. Minato probably had the chakra reserves to warp the entire tree away, but while its charging the dama, that's not four objects, it's one continuous object. So that point proves that minato's clones can't use everything that the original can use, Tobirama's as well. They are limited in their skill.I think you missed the point. The point is that clones are limited in their actions/jutsu depending on how difficult they are. That's why Naruto's never going to have a BM clone go full bijuumode, or start pulling off gigantic bijuudamas despite them having the chakra capacity to do so.
There was no specified minimum, however the manga has denoted as little as 13 kagebunshins as tajuu kagebunshin.
Minato can't redo the seal and change the key simultaneously as naruto isn't even using the seal minato created anymore, if anything, Naruto can seal minato's chakra with his new seal. Plus, since when can you change the key to a seal?
Not only that, but the only time juubito got tagged by S/T users is while he was mindless, after he ripped those space/time users in half, and fighting with his real body. BSM Naruto wouldn't fight that way, he'd use his giant chakra avatar. If he does fight without it, then he'd use tajuu kagebunshin meaning minato has to play the guessing game. Finally, Minato isn't far faster than naruto, BM Naruto's shunshin has mimicked FTG speeds at ranges of over 100 meters, and minato has never shown shunshin speed beyond that.
Against someone like BSM Naruto who's clones even can spam nukes the terrain of the fight is going to be changing way too much for FTG to even be viably used. Not only that, but with his sensing abilities, Naruto can target the kunai or tags via clones and stuff to eliminate minato's warp beacons which makes this more like BM Naruto vs BSM Naruto, in which naruto wins.
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Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg
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BM Minato = Naruto - (FRS + SM) + FTG
and
FTG > (SM + FRS)
therefore
prime Minato > prime Naruto
and
FTG > (SM + FRS)
therefore
prime Minato > prime Naruto
Optimistic
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With the Kyuubi's chakra i wouldn't be shocked if Minato can produce the same volume of bunshins as Naruto.
ot: Minato wins.
ot: Minato wins.
Stopped reading at bold. AKA the beginning... Naruto's obviously using minato's seal. Wtf? So, now, naruto knows sealing jutsu? NAruto created his own key? lmfaooo? The guy simply unlocked, then re-locked minato's seal by using the key. Minato simply locks it up then changes the key. For that matter, minato could simply slap a 5 element seal onto it so, not only does it lock up his seal, but it also destroys his chakra control. He wouldn't even be able to walk on water properly.
Since when couldn't you change the key to a seal you made? What's stopping minato from changing the key? If i want a different key to open my door, all i do is change the lock, not the entire door. You're making it sound like minato needs to remove the entire seal(door in this analogy) just to change the key( lock in this analogy).
Everything else in your post is completely baseless and simply grasping at straws. Clearly you have no idea how FTG or s/t barrier works, else you wouldn't say any of that nonsense.
Except none of that is true as in chapter
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Naruto makes, and you guessed it.............
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Which is the improved version of
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that
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Show me any evidence in the manga that says minato can change the key to the seal he made after you make it, actually, show me any evidence in the manga that you can have multiple different keys for a single seal type.
Hold on, I thought you said you stopped reading my post after the bolded? How then would you know that the rest of my post is completely baseless and grasping at straws if you yourself just said you didn't read it:
Not only that but I see you asserting that I have no idea how FTG or the S/T barrier works, however I see no argument, evidence or reasoning that supports that assertion, thus it's simply a baseless one that holds no water, and my arguments for why the FTG could be rendered ineffective in the battle remain untouched.
VolatileSoul
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I don't know. I guess ability wise Naruto is better than Minato. He just looses here because Minato is a bad match up.
BenjerminGaye
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1. He used shadow clone. Not mass shadow clone. He produced over the minimum(according to you) proving the techniques are one and the same. Kiba never said he can only make one he said his tech only needs one. Naruto doesn't know what kiba is capable of. No one implied his limit was one. U for some reason just assumed that.
2. No it doesn't. You have proven my doubt. You don't know how shadow clone works. I'll explain afterwards. You don't know how much chakra is necessary to make the wood clone, while with shadow clone it takes your chakra(regardless of how much you have) and splits it. Ex: a shadow clone would take 1% if your chakra if you make 99 clones.
3. How does that prove it? The only way for an ftg user to use mutual swap is if the speed is the same. Neither tobirama or minato made that tech as edos. It's not something they made on the fly. Since both know of the tech both must have used it when they were alive. Leaving the only person for them to use the tech with their clones.
4.you didn't even read that scan correctly. He said they can each only handle 1 making 2 total. Then when his options were limited to only ftg he asked minato what to do. Minato said with one hand he can only do one but then hinted at jumping the entire tree. Don't bungle things.
5. No the reason he couldn't make more is because it would interfere with the clones gathering chakra. You know. Clone resonance and all. But once the clones that were gathering chakra got used up he made 1000 plus. Everything else is assumption on your part.
Fck numbers. Minato doesn't. He just jumps them before they explode. Not quite if anything they have a timer. Or explodes when it comes in contact with something.
Yet kakashi made over 20 as shadow clone...
Alright class is in session. Shadow clone jutsu.
The user splits his chakra evenly amidst his clones.
This means the user has no limit on how many clones he can make.
I.e. he makes 1 clone his chakra is split by two(him +1 clone) both the user and his clone has 50% chakra.
Two clones chakra is split by 3(user has to be included) 33% each.
The more clones the less chakra they get but that doesn't mean there's a limit to how many clones can be made.
If user makes 1000 clones chakra gets split by 1001. U get were I'm going?
That's why an exhausted kakashi (who didn't have that much chakra to begin with) made over 20. But that also limits what the clone can do since a clone with 1% of chakra can be useful of useless depending on the starting amount of chakra.
Here's the equation for shadow clone s/(c+1)
S= starting chakra
C= amount of clones
Minato mid diff. Ftg is to hax.
BenjerminGaye
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1. He used shadow clone. Not mass shadow clone. He produced over the minimum(according to you) proving the techniques are one and the same. Kiba never said he can only make one he said his tech only needs one. Naruto doesn't know what kiba is capable of. No one implied his limit was one. U for some reason just assumed that.
2. No it doesn't. You have proven my doubt. You don't know how shadow clone works. I'll explain afterwards. You don't know how much chakra is necessary to make the wood clone, while with shadow clone it takes your chakra(regardless of how much you have) and splits it. Ex: a shadow clone would take 1% if your chakra if you make 99 clones.
3. How does that prove it? The only way for an ftg user to use mutual swap is if the speed is the same. Neither tobirama or minato made that tech as edos. It's not something they made on the fly. Since both know of the tech both must have used it when they were alive. Leaving the only person for them to use the tech with their clones.
4.you didn't even read that scan correctly. He said they can each only handle 1 making 2 total. Then when his options were limited to only ftg he asked minato what to do. Minato said with one hand he can only do one but then hinted at jumping the entire tree. Don't bungle things.
5. No the reason he couldn't make more is because it would interfere with the clones gathering chakra. You know. Clone resonance and all. But once the clones that were gathering chakra got used up he made 1000 plus. Everything else is assumption on your part.
Fck numbers. Minato doesn't. He just jumps them before they explode. Not quite if anything they have a timer. Or explodes when it comes in contact with something.
Yet kakashi made over 20 as shadow clone...
Alright class is in session. Shadow clone jutsu.
The user splits his chakra evenly amidst his clones.
This means the user has no limit on how many clones he can make.
I.e. he makes 1 clone his chakra is split by two(him +1 clone) both the user and his clone has 50% chakra.
Two clones chakra is split by 3(user has to be included) 33% each.
The more clones the less chakra they get but that doesn't mean there's a limit to how many clones can be made.
If user makes 1000 clones chakra gets split by 1001. U get were I'm going?
That's why an exhausted kakashi (who didn't have that much chakra to begin with) made over 20. But that also limits what the clone can do since a clone with 1% of chakra can be useful of useless depending on the starting amount of chakra.
Here's the equation for shadow clone s/(c+1)
S= starting chakra
C= amount of clones
Minato mid diff. Ftg is to hax.
Can you show me the scan where it shows he used shadow clone and not Tkb? Also if naruto uses TKB for only 13, then it's been retconned since part 1.
Naruto knows the ins and outs of the kagebunshin technique, if by your logic it only requires: chakra and control to use, then Naruto would have never even questioned if Kiba could only make one clone, as he would have known that kiba had more than enough chakra and control to make more than one since he did a thousand back in part 1.
And Naruto exclaiming that kiba's limit was only one, and kiba not denying it, in addition to defending himself for only using one heavily implies that he's only capable of one.
Um.... so what? That has nothing to do with disproving the statement that using the swapping technique with clones is slower. If the clones can use FTG just as fast as the original, then there's no reason why the swapping technique gets slower.
Um again, how does what I type contradict anything you've just said. If minato can warp one by himself and tobirama can warp one by himself, then combined they'd only be able to warp 2. And that proves that the clones can't do everything the original can since both minato and tobirama would have been able to warp away all 4 if they could have used the technique through clones.
Since everything you've just typed pretty much has been directly stated by my post, then I guess you agree with my post. Also, the clones weren't gathering chakra, they were gathering natural energy which does not affect the resonance of clone chakra since it isn't chakra. If you want to assert the bolded, then you have to back up that assertion with some kind of argument.
What point is this a response to? If it's a response to warping the bijuudama, then no, bijuudamas don't have a timer, they explode when the hit something that's very durable or when they do a certain amount of travel damage.
I already knew all of this. However, this logic only applies when you make a clone in the same mode as yourself. BM Naruto has shown the ability to make KCM clones and even base clones which would be impossible if he could only split his chakra evenly among those clones.
Yet he'll never even be able to use that technique due to the blast radius of even normal bijuudamas clearing the landscape for miles, that means all his tags get destroyed. Not only that, none of his clones have been shown or implied to be capable of using the space/time barrier as they've never been stated or implied to be capable of doing such a thing.
Naruto spams rapidfire bijuudamas, FRS, and bijuurasengans while he spams SM clones who go, sense and eliminate minato's tags. Minato runs out of tags and gets ended by a senpou super bijuudama.
also, you were saying something about *********** not keeping up their scans? Here's a link to their archive site where you can view all of their scans from old chapters as well as the new ones:
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BenjerminGaye
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Ao, you actually do believe naruto has sealing jutsu? Fine by me.
Naruto
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(notice key on his hand)
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. (notice
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on his hand)Minato
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. In both cases, it was the same thing done, except minato didn't need to use the key to re-do the seal. Minato forgoes the use of the key entirely.
I don't know who ever said multiple keys to 1 seal. All i said was he could use a
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to lock up his chakra. You can have multiple seals on each other; In the first place, naruto's seal is a multi-layer seal. Lastly, You actually just don't understand how either of the jutsu work. Your entire claim "He can blow up blah blah blah" to destroy all minato's seals and what not is complete nonsense. Minato was able to spread the kunai all around the juubi, naruto won't even know where some of those seals are in the first place. Secondly, If minato tags him directly, He's forever tagged and can't destroy that tag. Thirdly, If they simply clash in BM, all naruto has to do is give some of his kyuubi chakra to naruto and he's, again, forever tagged. Minato can FTG behind naruto any time he pleases to dodge any attack. S/T barrier redirects all of naruto's projectiles, it's that simple. So, even assuming your nonsense claim of him firing off multiple tbb's to destroys kunai, minato could simply toss kunai at those tbb and they're now exploding in the middle of the ocean uselessly. Minato's a known genius, implying he'd even let naruto destroy his seals is already idiotic as no one's ever even done something like that. Furthermore, your claim doesn't account for the kunai in his pouch that he could throw in any direction to escape danger. Minato doesn't just spread kunai for no reason. You understand none of this. If you did, you wouldn't be talking nonsense about TBB's killing minato or whatever it is you were even stated.
TL;DR; all minato has to do is clash with naruto and give him some chakra. From there minato can dodge every single one of naruto's attacks by simply teleporting behind him. Don't even claim naruto is reacting to this when Juubito, who is far faster and also has sensing feats, couldn't react to FTG.
