Naruto v. Sasuke | Symbolism ☯

[shelke]

Good thread. Haven't seen a decent one in a while on here. I like the fact that you have brought out few aspects of the symbolism between Naruto and Sasuke - full dissection of it would have been impossible for Sasuke's side. My favourite portion was the realization on Naruto's part; it was a slow realization, but he gradually began to understand what loss meant.

Naruto never knew his parents so he craved relations, pined for them. But he never lost any, so understanding Sasuke for him at the onset was an impossibility. After he lost Jiraiya, talked to Nagato, who was wronged by Konoha like Sasuke, and saw Neji's death ... only then he fully began to grasp Sasuke's personality. Before that it was just childish desire on his part to keep Sasuke as that one relationship he never wanted to let go of.

I also liked the eye of the storm light thinning on Naruto's forehead. It reminded me of the footprints Sasuke left in mud before he met Itachi towards the same eye of the storm after Madara created a large thunderstorm through the Juubi. It felt like Sasuke was walking towards Naruto, though reluctantly.

Good job with this slice of Sasuke's character. Repped.

 

[lndra]

Good thread. Haven't seen a decent one in a while on here. I like the fact that you have brought out few aspects of the symbolism between Naruto and Sasuke - full dissection of it would have been impossible for Sasuke's side. My favourite portion was the realization on Naruto's part; it was a slow realization, but he gradually began to understand what loss meant.

Naruto never knew his parents so he craved relations, pined for them. But he never lost any, so understanding Sasuke for him at the onset was an impossibility. After he lost Jiraiya, talked to Nagato, who was wronged by Konoha like Sasuke, and saw Neji's death ... only then he fully began to grasp Sasuke's personality. Before that it was just childish desire on his part to keep Sasuke as that one relationship he never wanted to let go of.

I also liked the eye of the storm light thinning on Naruto's forehead. It reminded me of the footprints Sasuke left in mud before he met Itachi towards the same eye of the storm after Madara created a large thunderstorm through the Juubi. It felt like Sasuke was walking towards Naruto, though reluctantly.

Good job with this slice of Sasuke's character. Repped.

I agree. Which is why I sadly left out big portions of Sasuke's growth through his VoTE one battle, all the way to VoTE2. That would have made the thread way too long for one, and I would have gotten lost in it number two. So I sticked with symbolism through their battles instead.

Right. It felt throughout the story that Naruto's characterization was to understand Sasuke and what he went through, which is why when Shippuden actually started I feared for a lot of his friends life. Including Kakashi, not really much of Sakura, but of course that would have been nice too. I wish that Kishimoto himself incorporated more onto Naruto's loss in understanding Sasuke, rather than him repeating really horrible lines like "I've learned everything from the people in my past, when you fall down you have to get right back up!" -- Isn't that something Naruto understood already? Kishimoto could have done better, but the meaning in those words I understood, even if Kishimoto was not pointing in that direction fully. I still give respect where respect is due.

Yes the enjoyment of this thread was indeed finding panels, and showcasing the symbolism in those panels, some that people might have skipped. I truly enjoyed that and sometimes I laughed at myself when I did not notice them before. Glad you liked the thread man, thanks for the review!

 

[loj]

U know,and then ppl tell me Sasuke has no heart.

That guy was in total darkness and bond between Naruto and Sasuke is just beautiful.
Sasuke should be thankful to have a friend like Naruto.Im still waiting for their moments in Naruto Gaiden.I want to see them like brothers like a family.

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This picture holds big meanings. :')

Sasuke is a great guy who was influenced by wrong ppl.

Every time I think about Naruto & Sasuke this song is in my head.
[video=youtube;IcseamG7ReY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcseamG7ReY[/video]

Don't try to live so wise.
Don't cry 'cause you're so right.
Don't dry with fakes or fears,
'Cause you will hate yourself in the end.

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

This was a very well thought out, put together, and presented thread.
Naruto and Sasuke's entire journey was never one meant to end in destruction. Ashura and Indora, and in fact their reincarnations themselves, were never meant to fight throughout eternity. The goal of the transmigrations were for one thing: to eventually, in SOME lifetime, come to understand one another.

Jiraiya stated that hatred was something difficult to battle, and it would take many generations. He also believed that one day he believes that even those of the greatest hatred could one day come to understand one another. Indora's hatred was not something that he could have gotten over in his lifetime, and the reason for that is because he could not UNDERSTAND why his father chose Ashura over himself. We as readers have been manipulated into agreeing with this to a certain extent due to how Sasuke (Indora's current incarnation) is treated. Indora was a genius, was capable of being independent, and he thought that this would be sufficient to be the inheritor of Ninshu because he was aiming to be like, and ultimately overcome his father, Hagoromo. Hagoromo was the strongest man in his time, and only needed help from one person to save the world, so by becoming an existence that needs NO ONE's help, Indora (in his mind) had gone beyond the qualifications to be the inheritor. He could not understand why he wasnt, and this lead to almost 1000 years of hatred.

Finally, in Naruto's timeline, the two souls were able to understand one another (love, loss, pain, hatred) but it should not be confused as being solely due to Naruto. It can be argued that this generation was able to understand each other due to this generation of Ashura not willing to give up on Sasuke, and this generation's Indora willing to listen to what Naruto had to say (this is thanks to the two having no choice but to listen, as they could not move.) There cannot be peace if only one side is willing and the other side is being coerced. This is why they both had to come to the table willingly, and this is poignantly represented by willingly holding hands to do the seal of ending the infinite tsukuyomi.

What do you think?

 

[Narusenpou]

real good bro

 

[Uzumaki Naruko]

Great thread, one of the best I read in this site (although I haven't been there for long XD) and it perfectly describes the relationship within Naruto and Sasuke, without being blinded by debating if one is stronger than the other.

I particularly liked your view on the "This is my loss" panel, as I had a similar thought, viewing Sasuke's admission as both the loss of his Revolution plan, and his belief of not needing others, him being alone...I actually had in mind to make a thread about Naruto and Sasuke's opposite situations about the need of company/acknowledgement from others, and also about the hidden meaning of Sasuke accepting his old headband from Naruto, and the promise to settle things back.

One last question..how much time did you need to make such a huge thread? XD

Beautiful thread but I think you missed some important stuff that happened after the fight .

Sasuke finally seeing the light for the 1st time as he recalls his memories while away in Konoha.

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He decides to leave again because he wants to see the world again without hatred in his eyes. He wants to use what he learned about himself and Naruto to help others. In a true sense Sasuke is spreading the meaning of ninshuu like the sage maybe? Well that kind of what this panel implies.

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I think you are right about that..I don't know if is effectively the spreading of ninshuu that the Sage had thought when alive, but it comes pretty close.

 

[Legendary Saiyan]

Naruto understands revenge but since he's not an Uchiha, he doesn't stick to that hatred until he gets his revenge. It's like you said, he stays to the light.

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

SASUNARU CONFIRMED!

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I agree with this.

 

[UnknownJin]

good thread man

 

[Romy9]

Beautiful thread from an objective member. A true rarity right there. Nice job!

 

[Complex]

I read this thread in the past, and now reading it again I've been reminded on how detailed Kishi's manga is. I swear I should learn to appreciate this manga, and Kishi's work more. Sasuke and Naruto's development is just astonishing. Just bravo kishi, you may be shit at times but bravo.
Phenomenal thread Indra 10/10. I would rep your post again if I could. You deserve an award for your great analysis.

 

[ChicagoJhawk]

This post brought me to tears

 

[Complex]

This post brought me to tears

Lmaoo I know how you feel

 

[To Whatever]

Disclaimer:

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A few things..

Yes I made this thread already, however when I wanted to actually finish it, I could not edit the post. Maybe it had to do with the time-frame? No clue. Anyway here is my old

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and here I have improved that, with a few edits and more content. I still hope you enjoy it all the same ~

Lastly, there is more symbolism between these two (obviously), and more parallels to pick out. However I decided against it, and picked out the one's I felt that were most important to me. Maybe one day I'll finally finish this thread and complete each and every detail. I suppose it would be up to the readers ... If you guys actually want that anyway.

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Placement ​

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VOTE - 1

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Now here we see Naruto going after Sasuke to the Madara statue:

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Which Parallels VOTE 2 -

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In VOTE1: Sasuke already had an answer to Naruto's wishes to bring him back, and he is determined to find Orochimaru. It was already too late at this point in time, and Kishimoto in my point of view was already implying the distance between them both, which is why we see Naruto trying to shorten the distance by going after Sasuke first.

In VOTE2; Naruto already had an answer to Sasuke's Revolution. Even before hearing the entirety of the plan he was not going to allow Sasuke to repeat the same mistakes as Indra/Madara. He was going to save him, at all costs.

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This time however they both attack together symbolizing the conflicting sides of two open ideas, but these two conflicting ideas cannot coexist with each-other. Unlike Part one Sasuke's determination was stable, while Naruto's justification for bringing back Sasuke was faltering throughout the battle (Ex: "You never had family to begin with, what do you understand?!").

Sasuke's pride​

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As you can see, the symbolism I wanted to point out is that Sasuke is the first one to throw Naruto from the Madara/Hashirama statue. I personally believe that Kishimoto is implying that Sasuke's character still does not feel as if Naruto equals him. The reason for the removing of Naruto from the statue, is simply for what they represent. Both opposite sides of Madara and Hashirama, who were represented as equals in combat (varying of course), but the representation is two conflicting sides which balance each other out. So Sasuke in turn will not accept any belief that Naruto will equal him in power. So in turn he removes Naruto from the statue that is supposed to represent them as equals from two conflicting sides (Light v. Dark, and Yin v. Yang).

This is also clear from what Sasuke says here:

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Kishimoto also proves that point as he continues through with the story. With Sasuke standing above Naruto.

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VOTE 2 -
Sasuke decides to remove Naruto from the statue's much like VOTE1:

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Much like VOTE1, I believe Sasuke still does not believe Naruto is par or higher than himself. He strictly believes he might be the strongest person on the planet:

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As the fight continues Sasuke releases the strongest attack he has in his skill-set. He has no belief at that point in time that Naruto will stalemate him, nor survive the blast once it is over.

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Sasuke's reaction:

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Sasuke's reaction as the battle continues:

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End Result:

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The reason why this picture is so symbolic (despite it being used in the wrong way) is that it finally represents the Sasuke that would never accept himself as an equal to anyone. His belief was that no one could stand up to him, nor stop him. He ultimately realizes that his way was flawed. Sasuke then begins to question Naruto on what would happen if he decides to stand up to him again, which Naruto continues to reply that Sasuke would never try something like that again, and if he did Naruto would stop him. Which is why when Sasuke submits and understands, he begins to cry. This is something that both Indra and Madara failed to do in their lifetimes before it was already too late.


Look at the past example of when Indra and Ashura failed to recompense. Both Hashirama and Madara considered themselves to be rivals, but in the end there was no representation of that:

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Now look back to when Naruto and Sasuke fought at VoTE for the first time:

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Do you know what the Seal of reconciliation means? It is used in Traditional Shinobi Sparring as a demonstration that the two opponents are still comrades after sparring. So understanding that much, after that battle Sasuke and Naruto from deep in their hearts STILL believed they were friends. Which is why the ending scene is so powerful because the Sasuke that was devoured by revenge came back to the Sasuke who used to love.

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Headband - Scratch vs. Chest - Impale ​

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​

Before VOTE1:

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Naruto's reaction:

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VOTE1 Naruto vs Sasuke: Chidori - Chest

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VOTE1 Naruto vs Sasuke: Rasengan - Scratch

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VOTE2:

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In the scene both Naruto and Sasuke are drained and exhausted, unconsciously Sasuke is still aiming his attacks at Naruto's chest, and unconsciously Naruto is still aiming attacks at Sasuke's forehead. No need to explain further on why this is so.

Their pain ... and Understanding​

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​

During the earliest stages of VoTe 1, when the fight started, Naruto never really understood Sasuke. They both were similar, but at the same time they both walked different paths.

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How could Naruto understand him, truly? Sasuke had lost everything ...

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While Naruto only began to create these bonds of friendship and family

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You see Naruto and Sasuke were only similar in the sense of understanding how it felt to connect, when there was no one else to connect to. They felt alone, they were hurting, but at the same time ... They had this urge to connect to those around them, even if it was a little chance.

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NOTE: I'm going to continue the parallel on the next spoiler

Naruto's Growth​

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Naruto never really understood Sasuke in the sense of losing people who were close to you, who meant everything to you (aside from Sasuke himself). That was not enough, however. When Jiraiya died Naruto began to understand how Sasuke felt.

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Now let's take a look back at their original clash at VoTE.

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Notice how Naruto contemplates on what Sasuke means, and then we fast forward into their future meeting near Samurai Bridge.

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Why would Naruto understand though? Because he understands what it would feel like for wanting revenge, not just by his recent altercations between Pain, but because in the past he too wanted revenge for the people that treated him as if he was nothing.

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"To understand his pain, the boy who knew nothing, had to go through everything just to reach him."

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Sasuke's Conversion​

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Now this is going to be a little bit different. I'm going to parallel two things here, but I'm going to start from VoTE 2 and go back up.

It is believed that the moon exerts a considerable degree of influence on human beings. It has been observed that people suffering from mental ailments invariably have their passions and emotional feelings affected during full moon days. I wanted to share this piece of history as I show you the first scan:

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Sasuke after leaving Konogakure fell into "darkness"... The best understanding of what this means is the scan right here:

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Now back onto the original scan in VoTE2. When Sasuke woke up he faced a change in his own self: For the first time, in a long time Sasuke woke up and saw everything clearly. Which is why immediately Sasuke began to question Naruto:

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The reason why Naruto did not fall asleep (in my opinion) was because he never strayed from the wrong path, he always kept himself in the light while straying true to his ideals, and that light was able to reach out to everyone who fell into despair.

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Now after Sasuke wake's up, and after his talk with Naruto, he begins to contemplate on Naruto and the feelings that tried to reach him before.

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Now after his realization -- Hours pass and Sasuke/Naruto both wake up, but there is a complete difference in the Sasuke who woke up next to Naruto at night, and the Sasuke who woke up as the sun rose. Notice the dialogue between Sasuke and Naruto:

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Did you see it? The Sasuke who woke up at night still questioned Naruto in the same arbitrary reason as before. "Why would you do this for me?" ... While the Sasuke who woke up during the day questions Naruto, but in the sense of not really expecting a change in answer. He seems to be confirming what he believes to be true, and funny enough Naruto himself states it:

"What if I oppose you again?"
"You won't do that anymore"

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"How can you be so sure?"
"I'm not going to keep repeating myself to you!! Jeez don't you get...?!"

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Now the parallel between both fights is here:

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Naruto is the only one to fall unconscious, but did you notice something strange about the scene itself? The light that illuminates the area begins to slowly become smaller, and smaller. But who exactly is it falling on? Naruto. Even as the light begins to whither and disappear, the last touch of it hits Naruto and Naruto only. Representing his ideals of staying "true to himself" in the sense of never straying on the wrong path. Afterwards the area begins to darken and the rain ensues, which directly represents Sasuke:

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Now when we have the final parallel ... When the sun comes up, Kishimoto is clearly representing the parallel of the light touching both Naruto and Sasuke. Showing that Sasuke is now back on the right path. One doesn't really need to argue on this ... because Sasuke in Chapter 699 states that he himself is now able to see things differently than before, which is why he goes on a redemption journey. Food for thought.

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Ending​

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"They say every world is connected by one great big sky. So maybe there's somebody up there in all those worlds who's really hurting, and they're waiting for you to help them."​

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Human souls are like reflecting water. People often speak or act opposite of their true feelings. But essentially, the human heart wishes to connect with and accept each other. And I know one day there will be someone who will protect, redeem, and shepherd you.

受 (Acceptance) + 心 (Heart) = 愛 (Love)​

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​

Nice thread brate.