Naruto: True "Fire" of the Leaf (second of two threads)

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This is the second of two threads describing the difference between 火影 (hokage, fire shadow) and will display using facts that Naruto is the fire of the hidden leaf, whereas Sasuke is the shadow. In other words, they cannot possibly exist without one another (fire will ALWAYS create its OWN shadow) and can never defeat one another. This thread will focus on the “fire” part, or Naruto’s role in the duo.

Naruto is interpreted by many Sasuke fans as a simpleton that was lucky to have a chakra beast sealed into his body by his parents, but Naruto himself is in actuality the truest inheritor of the will of fire started by the ORIGINAL fire of the leaf, Hashirama. Hashirama was depicted as strong, willing to protect his home at the cost of his life, but even more than that, he was able to connect to and understand others on a “human level.” He was able to discern that Madara, an outwardly volatile man, was actually a man who carried deep love for his family (brothers) and understood that Madara’s sharingan activation meant Madara was suffering too (Madara felt in advance the pain of his duty to kill Hashirama.) He was also able to convince Madara, the Uchiha, and other clans to join together. This is the original will of fire, and he passed it onto his student Hiruzen. Hiruzen was the “fire” of his generation, having all of the traits of Hashirama besides the mokuton, and he passed that onto his student Jiraiya, who in turn passed it onto Minato, and it eventually reaching Naruto.

Naruto is the combined positive traits of all of the previous hokage, the “wills of fire” of the leaf. He is the reincarnation of Hashirama, grew up with Hiruzen as his reigning kage therefore being most influenced by him, mastered Tobirama’s kage shadow clone technique, is the son of Minato, held a familial bond with Tsunade, and was personally trained by Kakashi as a student. Jiraiya, the “fire” of his generation, also trained Naruto. He is also the main character of the story, and is physically in a constant state of cooperation. He is special in that he is never alone (Kurama is sealed in him) but BECAUSE he is never alone he CANNOT be defeated. That is his character, similar to how Gaara once said “as long as I have sand, I can do anything” in response to being told that without sand he is nothing. Naruto cannot defeat Sasuke, and at the same time he won't let Sasuke defeat him again. Fire and shadow. Sasuke sealed this by saying he always felt that Naruto was walking ahead of him, in his mind relegating himself to the role of a shadow following that which casts it, i.e. Naruto.

It is easier to write about Naruto by directly debating, so what do you think?
 
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NukaCola

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Kage is a title to recognize the leaders of the elemental villages and and the element goes according to the name of each village. It doesn't have some deeper meaning exclusive to Konoha.
 
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Kage is a title to recognize the leaders of the elemental villages and and the element goes according to the name of each village. It doesn't have some deeper meaning exclusive to Konoha.
I think that it does have a special meaning to konoha for the mere fact that THEY started the trend. Also, the relationship between fire and shadow is different than the relationship between earth, lightning, water, wind and shadow. Fire being a light source in an of itself means that it's existence cannot be completed without a shadow, whereas earth and water in the dark have no shadow, lightning itself happens so quickly that it's shadow cannot be recognized, and wind does not cast a shadow by itself but rather casts shadows of things moving within it.

What do you think?
 

NukaCola

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I think that it does have a special meaning to konoha for the mere fact that THEY started the trend. Also, the relationship between fire and shadow is different than the relationship between earth, lightning, water, wind and shadow. Fire being a light source in an of itself means that it's existence cannot be completed without a shadow, whereas earth and water in the dark have no shadow, lightning itself happens so quickly that it's shadow cannot be recognized, and wind does not cast a shadow by itself but rather casts shadows of things moving within it.

What do you think?
I think you need to post facts instead of silly theories to give Sasuke relevance where he is not needed. Also, they are called shadows because they are ninjas.
 
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I think you need to post stone cold facts instead of silly theories to give Sasuke relevance where he is not needed.
My response was initially in respect to you questioning the relevance of shadow in the leaf village as compared to other villages. What are these facts that you want, ones that give Sasuke relevance? Because I believe I did that in the previous thread. This thread was a focus on Naruto, hence I wrote primarily about him. If you would like a quick "stone cold fact" that gives Sasuke relevance, the answer can be found with Naruto. Naruto keeps making Sasuke relevant. This is not a bad thing, as Sasuke himself keeps making Naruto relevant.

What do you think?
 
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Similar to Danzo and Hiruzen's relationship.
It started before Danzo and Hiruzen, they were only the second generation of the duality.

The first generation was Hashirama being the "fire" with both Tobirama and Madara playing the "shadow role."
Hiruzen and Danzo inherited the roles after Tobirama died, Jiraiya and Orochimaru inherited the roles during and after Hiruzen's reign, and the current holders of the roles are Naruto and Sasuke.
 

UzumakiRyu

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It started before Danzo and Hiruzen, they were only the second generation of the duality.

The first generation was Hashirama being the "fire" with both Tobirama and Madara playing the "shadow role."
Hiruzen and Danzo inherited the roles after Tobirama died, Jiraiya and Orochimaru inherited the roles during and after Hiruzen's reign, and the current holders of the roles are Naruto and Sasuke.
Danzo was the "Shadow" of Konoha doing the jobs that Hiruzen couldn't do becoming the darkness he couldn't.
 

NukaCola

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My response was initially in respect to you questioning the relevance of shadow in the leaf village as compared to other villages. What are these facts that you want, ones that give Sasuke relevance? Because I believe I did that in the previous thread. This thread was a focus on Naruto, hence I wrote primarily about him. If you would like a quick "stone cold fact" that gives Sasuke relevance, the answer can be found with Naruto. Naruto keeps making Sasuke relevant. This is not a bad thing, as Sasuke himself keeps making Naruto relevant.

What do you think?
You are talking about the title Hokage as if it were something beyond a title and want to include a third person on it.
@Are you saying that Naruto is not relevant enough by himself in the manga called Naruto?

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Danzo was the "Shadow" of Konoha doing the jobs that Hiruzen couldn't do becoming the darkness he couldn't.
Yes, I agree with that interpretation of Danzo. There had to be some reason that Hiruzen allowed Danzo such leeway. Despite not agreeing with the METHODS, the shadow was still in sync with the fire, meaning that everything was done for the village just like Hiruzen did everything for the village. Danzo's was a perverted interpretation of Tobirama's will, and he passed this onto Orochimaru who perverted it even more. This is why their successor (Sasuke) was the one to defeat them (or allow them to live in Orochimaru's case) because he is the pure version of what they should have been.

Since this is the "fire" thread, I would appreciate if we could keep the comments related to those that became the hokage (Hashirama, Hiruzen, Naruto, etc.) Danzo would be better discussed in my other thread about Sasuke.
 

NukaCola

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If you stopped including the title Hokage (that doesn't have anything to do with Sasuke) and replace the words Fire and Shadow for Yang and Yin everything would make more sense.
 
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