Naruto the Last Theory: Toneri Ōtsutsuki 's origins, Hyūga, True End Plan

[Vega]

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Hello NB, as you know the manga ended but on the bright side the movie is still there, so some speculation is still left to be made and hopefully I can make this seem interesting to you. So today I want to contemplate some ideas for the upcoming movie.

First off let's look at some of the things we know about Toneri/what he says:

• "The Ancestor of all Shinobi; the Sage of the Six Paths." (Nothing really important here, we already know about him.)
• "The Moon is Falling." (Again, obvious.)
• "Our clan has waited for 1000 years." (This seems very important.)
• Naruto: "You are Ōtsutsuki ?" (shows he's a descendant)
• "Mankind will be punished for using chakra as a weapon." (interesting, will address later)

Now with those things in the back of your mind I want to share something with you first:
I was reading the translation for the databook then stumbled upon this.

Ōtsutsuki Hamura (大筒木ハムラ)

For the sake of the world, the younger brother with the Byakugan paired up with his older brother to seal their mother.

Together with his older brother Hagoromo, he sealed the Ten Tails. After the battle, he became head of the Ōtsutsuki Clan, and together with the rest of the Clan, he migrated to the moon that was created from Chibaku Tensei to watch over the Gedō Mazō and the vessel of the Ten Tails.

So Hamura took over the Ōtsutsuki clan and went to the moon. I imagine that they kept reproducing after that to maintain a lineage that could monitor/be caretakers of the Moon and the Mazou (Off-topic but isn't that inbreeding lol?); or another option to keep this monitoring going which I will bring up later

Sounds nice, next here's more databook stuff:

Descent

To obtain the fruit of the Divine Tree, the Rabbit Goddess descended.

From the moment they assumed humanoid form, mankind had walked a world of strife waging war against one another. The ground was stained with blood, and as if drinking it in, the Divine Tree took root in the earth. In time, the Divine Tree bore a single fruit, and a clan migrated from another world in search of it. They were the Ōtsutsuki clan. Kaguya, leader of the Ōtsutsuki, ate the Divine Tree's fruit and became the originator of Chakra, and with that tremendous power subdued the world in the blink of an eye.

...

The twins, assuming that Ten Tails was an incarnation of the Divine Tree, and that it had attacked them to recover the Chakra from its stolen fruit, met it head on. After a desperate struggle, they invoked Six Paths Planetary Construction. Transforming it into the moon, they sealed it away.

The husk of Ten Tails, the Gedō Statue, was sealed in the moon. Hamura took leadership of the clan and decreed that they would stand guard over the statue.

Okay so this kinda does two things:

• As I and many a other theorized long ago, it confirms the Kaguya and her clan are not from this world, but likely to be extraterrestrials/ aliens (not the traditional from space as its still possible that "not from this world" refers to their home dimension, which I like the idea along with the space one as well.)
• And it also reiterates what the earlier post said about Hamura blah blah blah.

Next, here's where the actual theory comes in:

Theory:
So we know that Hamura took over the Ōtsutsuki clan and took them to the moon. First you might wonder as to how they got to the moon. I've come up with two ideas regarding this.

1. They used the same process to get to the moon that they did to get to the Earth.
2. A Teleportation jutsu

Spoiler

Regarding the first choice:
Considering the Ōtsutsukis are not from Earth in the first place, it means that they probably used some sort of technique/method to get to the Earth. It's possible that this method was going through a Space-Time "barrier" that was in the castles of the dimensions. The importance of the Castles have never really been explained and it would make sense if they were manual mediums for inter-dimensional travel. The principle would work similar to Minato's jutsu really, where one would go into the Castle's portal and enter into Earth.
If you want to hear more about this, the spoiler underneath this sentence recalls some points I made in a theory on this some time ago along with some additional info.

Spoiler

I believe the Castles are the manual link between Kaguya's Space-time dimensions.

Spoiler

The reason why I believe this first stems from what Obito told us.

Obito states that the Time-Space is really 'vast' (great in size) and for Kaguya to connect them instantly is amazing.

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In fact Black Zetsu mentions that using it requires an immense amount of Chakra.

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So that caused me to think, if Kaguya was to over-use this too much/didn't have any Chakra she'd be screwed and stuck there. But I think the Castles are essentially the hidden door in case this were to happen.

Or basically I believe the Castles have the entrances to each of the dimensions in case the User lacks sufficient Chakra to travel through the Time-Spaces. It's essentially a safe-guard for Kaguya.

But you might be wondering why they're in such weird locations.
Or at this point on the top of Volcano and the top of an Ice Cliff. [

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Spoiler

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But that actually favors Kaguya if you think about it. They're located in such odd places just in case someone other than Kaguya tries to use them. Imagine trying to find a random castle in the middle of nowhere. It's pretty hard unless you're Kaguya, for she already knows the dimensions as she lived with there before; and, she can use her Byakugan and quickly find the location.

Spoiler

My next reasoning to believe that these Castles may involve a manual entrance to the dimensions is something regarding Mount Fuji (this relates to what I started off with above.)

Now allow me to familiarize you with the term Axis Mundi.

Spoiler

The axis mundi is literally the axis of the world, although there are several different ways of viewing a religion's axis mundi. The axis provides a connection between the various realms. This can connects dimensions, or the physical world and spiritual worlds.

This is important because Mount Fuji is considered an Axis Mundi in Shintoism.

Spoiler

Mt. Fuji is the tallest mountain in Japan. Physically reaching farther into the sky than any natural or man-made structure, it is an obvious bridge between land and sky. Made of stone, it also reaches deep into the ground. This makes it an ideal way to connect the realms. And various religions have their own respective Axis Mundi

So in this case I'd find it fitting if each Castle was the dimension connecter.

Now this raises one last question, how was Kaguya able to access these dimensions?
Interestingly enough, the Tree of Life is considered an Axis Mundi/connects the various realms in Norse Mythology.
So in case I guess the key would be the Shinju/God-Tree itself. After taking root within the Earth, the chakra that perhaps synced into nature created portals between the separate dimensions. Then later, since Kaguya became apart of the Ten-Tails/ate the fruit, she was open to use these abilities.

This image relates well with the current dimensions.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

So Kaguya probably realized this was the opportunity for salvation; thus took her clan and left to eat the Fruit.
As she was naturally a princess, she probably had her clan build her castles every time she changed dimension for a royal residence (as the portal would only be in her control essentially, the nobility. Perhaps they had a feudalistic system going.)

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Regarding the second choice:
This seems more probable to me, being that after defeating the Juubi/Kaguya, Hagoromo and Hamura were so advanced in jutsu that I'm sure one of them was capable of Teleportation to send the others there. Afterwards Hagoromo probably used Shinra Tensei to push the moon into its orbit.

Moving on:

Spoiler

We know that Hamura went to the moon with the Otsutsukis, but the Hyūga clan also lived on the Earth. Therefore, I believe that Hamura already had children on Earth that became the Hyūgas . Hamura left for the moon along with the rest of the other Ōtsutsukis . This was because Hamura would need to keep watch over the Mazou and thus needed to continue the Ōtsutsukis Clan's purpose.

He left his Eldest Son to continue his own bloodline, and became known as the Hyūga Clan. The older brother then went on to have his own sons. His first son became the ancestor of the "Main House (宗家, Sōke) " and his second son became the "Branch House (分家, Bunke)".

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To maintain an idea of what was going on, Hamura told his son to use his Byakugan and zoom into the moon. Likewise, Hamura could do the same with his 360 degree vision.. This way constant monitoring could be kept by the Hyūgas . And to ensure that the secrets of the Byakugan or the fact that the Ōtsutsukis were on the moon (for it gave threat to the revival of the Juubi), the Main Son embedded the Hyūga curse-mark onto the Branch Son. The true purpose was eventually forgotten and it became a tool of manipulation.

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Now let me bring back Toneri's line: "Mankind will be punished for using chakra as a weapon."
This was very interesting me. To continue off our last ideas, I believe that for some time the Ōtsutsukis monitored the Mazou and all was well. But after a while, many of the Ōtsutsukis grew vengeful. They were forced to monitor the Gedo Statue for what seemed eternity all because of mankind's thirst for power. And at the same time, humans were abusing Ninshuu and exploiting it into Ninjutsu. But Most of all they were angry at the fact that Hamura had made their Clan the caretakers while his own bloodline the Hyūga remained free.
The lower-ranks of the Ōtsutsuki probably became sick of this; or specifically the one rank/man known as Toneri (舎人) (which was a title held by low-ranking servants of royalty and nobility during the 7th century. )

This created resentment within these Ōtsutsukis numbers, and they decided to revenge against humanity. They together and took power from Hamura/whoever the hell was in charge and thus began their waiting period until the time could come from their plan. The man to lead this rebellion was no other than Toneri Ōtsutsuki . Hence Toneri says, "Our clan has waited for 1000 years." Just before dying, Hamura destroyed his Byakugan. Toneri then took in his chakra and DNA to become stronger as he now directly had "Kaguya's blood."

After Toneri came into power people probably realized he was crazy, but Toneri became corrupt and ignorant from all the power and thus killed them all; essentially he is the "Last Otsutsuki."

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The plan? Simple, get to Earth and punish humanity for using chakra. In essence, Toneri was going to have the Moon crash into the Earth and decimate humanity.

Now why the 1000 year waiting period? I'm not entirely sure but I feel this is related: (bottom half)

Spoiler

Spoiler

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A Fruit is born once every millennium (1000 years). Considering Kaguya is sealed in another dimension, I don't think he wants to revive the Juubi/Shinju. So I can't really draw any connection here but thought I'd mention it regardless. I think some change might happen within the Earth every 1000 years, maybe chakra becomes unstable, IDK.

Anyways now with such a long waiting period, Toneri would need some way to stay alive, rather the entire Clan would. How did he do so? Simple:
Connection to the Gedo Mazou, as it has a huge life-force:

Spoiler

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Madara used the same tactic to prolong his death whilst old; Toneri used the same principle albeit he maintained his youth.

Spoiler

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However, there was one detriment to this. I believe that a certain problem arose for Toneri:

Spoiler

He over connected with the Mazou's chakra and thus the Mazou began to "become one" with him in a sense.
At first the chakra flowed into him, but over time it began to become apart of his very essence. That's right, Toneri overused the Mazou and thus it turned him to become:

• The monster from the Last
  
• Spoiler

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I've pointed out some similarities to help identify this connection:

• Similar Rikudou Symbols
• Similar Coloration
• Similar Overall appearance.

Spoiler

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(Also I want to say that this monster has hella resemblance to Hamura, but for Theory's sake I think its Toneri. That and from Hagoromo's indications it seems Hamura is a good guy.)

So I think it's possible that Toneri essentially became a Pseudo-Mazo. Eventually Madara would break the Sage's seal and summon the Mazou, but Toneri already had ample life-force to wait until the 1000th year. Also I believe that after the Mazou was summoned by Madara, the core of the Moon began to "deteriorate" and its collapsing now.

So why does Toneri need Hinata?
Possible two things.
First: Toneri may want to get closer to Kaguya's dojutsu, or in this case, specifically Byakugan. Toneri's eyes look normal in this picture here; but in this picture it looks as if he might have the Byakugan.

Spoiler

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Kaguya's Byakugan passed down to Hamura, which passed down to the Hyūga . In order to get the "purest Byakugan", Toneri may need to retrieve the Byakugan of a Main House member. Therefore he goes after Hinata, fails, then does the same with Hinabi and succeeds.

Spoiler

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Second: Toneri wants to eliminate mankind by crashing the moon then start anew. I feel he might be similar to what Sasuke and said and rebuild over the destroyed. With his power and unique Clan's bloodline, he'd be able to survive the moon's aftermath then start a new; or build a civilization in his image. In order to continue his bloodline he may want a Main Branch member of the Hyuuga, and thus restore the clan/kin he once slaughtered.

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TL;DR​

• Hamura took the Ōtsutsuki clan and went to the moon.
• There he guarded and monitored the Gedo Mazou.
• His sons became the Main and Branch families.
• Kaguya reached the human world by discovering a dimensional portal through her Castles
• Toneri and others became angry that humans were misusing chakra
• Toneri leads a uprising against Hamura, in which the latter seals away his Byakugan.
• Toneri connects himself to the Mazou for life-force and live until the 1000th year.
• Toneri wants to steal a Main house Byakugan to become close to Kaguya's power.
• He also wants to start a new and reproduce with a Hyūga.
• The over-connection with the Mazou turns Toneri into the Monster from The Last.
• Crashing the moon and starting a new is the "True End Plan."

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Sad to see the manga end, will hopefully make a thread on it soon. Overall I'll miss this manga.

And as always, thanks for reading, Vega

 

[Angelic.]

so hes another hypocritical crazy guy. great.

that means the gedo is not inside the moon or there is a underground city in it.

 

[Torche]

So... Antagonist what-his-face is going to "punish them for using chakra as a weapon" when he himself is doing the same? Dat hypocrisy. Lol

 

[Seventh Sama]

I don't completely agree but interesting, very interesting!

 

[Nelmanaly]

Man this is huge i read all and i have to say if this happens best Naruto movie ever not even Menma could take this down
This theory is gold

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[Rmstorm]

I love you no homo

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

Very Nice theory, I hope this Movie will make up all the loose ending.

 

[Vapid]

So, in the end, he loses and we already know he does.

 

[SkillMillTill]

Kishi didn't even think that hard

 

[naru998]

The stone tablet was changed to manipulate madara....... i wouldnt hold everything true

 

[HyuugaHeir]

I want a Hyuuga show

 

[KCMNaruto]

• Hamura took the Ōtsutsuki clan and went to the moon.
• There he guarded and monitored the Gedo Mazou.
• His sons became the Main and Branch families.
• Kaguya reached the human world by discovering a dimensional portal through her Castles
• Toneri and others became angry that humans were misusing chakra
• Toneri leads a uprising against Hamura, in which the latter seals away his Byakugan.
• Toneri connects himself to the Mazou for life-force and live until the 1000th year.
• Toneri wants to steal a Main house Byakugan to become close to Kaguya's power.
• He also wants to start a new and reproduce with a Hyūga.
• The over-connection with the Mazou turns Toneri into the Monster from The Last.
• Crashing the moon and starting a new is the "True End Plan."

1. agree
2. agree
3. partially agree, as I think Kaguya clan and Hyuuga clan came from Hamura. Also I believe Uzumaki came later from both Hamura and Hagoromo linage mixxing, probably Kaguya clan mixing with Senjuu clan lol.
4. Probably, However the question would arise how the castle was build up and who did it. I would preffer more theory of Ootsutsuki being deities as servants of Gods to create humankind or watch over them. As deities they could movie freely between worlds.
5. agree
6. Well I am not sure about it. I would prefer Hamura keeping them away believing in his brother way to solve conflict and misuse of chakra so when Hagoromo left, and even although peace was attained charka in fear of chakra being used again as weapons Toneri decided to punish Mankind
7. Most likely or possible he was the lastest of child from Ootsutsuki linage, he could be born recently.
8. Most likely or he tried to release Kaguya finding her way to deal with humankind as only way to remove chakra from the world.
9. Possible or use them as sacrifices to bring Ootsutsuki people back
10. doubt it. The monster looks more like Hamura, which shows That Toneri most likely merged dead Hamura body(idk how he died) with giant piece of rock or fused him with it using yang release he brought life to him but control him to bring judgement on humankind and against his own descendants, Hyuuga.
11. Indeed it would be like you said

Thanks for the thread I enjoyed reading it as it was well organised/structured with nice details and well connected/put together.

It was indeed worth of my time, I hope you will reply to my post sharing your thoughts.

There is no doubt this movie has really high potential, just wait and see how Kishi uses it

 

[Vega]

^Np and thanks for reading, will definitely give a more detailed response once I get the time

 

[11TailedBox]

Nice theory very detailed.

 

[bashkim]

Nice thread, but Naruto and Sasuke will kill this freak.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Very detailed and interesting thread as usual man!

The small pieces of information that we got from the databook were useful, but have raised many more questions. It appears that the entire Otsutsuki clan came with Kaguya to Earth when she searched for the fruit of the Shinju. Likely after consuming the fruit, she had her children with a human man (though it could also have been one of the Otsutsuki). This would have made Hagoromo and Hamura half human. After the Juubi was sealed in the moon, Hamura goes with the Otsutsuki to guard the Gedou Statues just like the databook states.

As for the means in which the Otsutsuki traveled to the moon I pretty much agree. The castles in Kaguya's dimensions were never explained in the manga, so them being some type of portal is possible. The Last probably has been in production for quite some time, so Kishi would have had to know how he intended to end the story in advance. Maybe he intentionally left Kaguya's back story vague so that it could be filled in by the movie. There also is the possibility that Hagoromo could have somehow used his Rinnegan's connection with the Gedou Mazou, to reverse summon the Otsutsuki to the moon just like how he was able to summon the bijuu and Team 7 from Kaguya's dimension.

I'd like to think that Hamura had several children which went on to become the ancestors of the Hyuuga, Kaguya (they must have some direct connection to Kaguya), as well as possibly Juugo's clan. Perhaps the full blooded Otsutsuki's viewed the human race as inferior, and after being on the moon for so long, they began to despise Hamura for being human himself.

As you stated, they likely became jealous that Hagoromo and Hamura's descendants were allowed to roam free on the Earth while they were forced to live on the barren, desolate moon for who knows how long. Also there's the fact that Hagoromo gave chakra away to humanity as a means to spread ninshuu. The Otsutsuki, who likely had some connection to the Shinju itself, were not happy that humanity was using what should rightfully belong to them (chakra), much less utilizing it as as weapon. They rebelled against Hamura's leadership, and as you stated, with Toneri as the leader. I like your idea that the absence of the Gedou Mazou in the moon is what causes it to crash to the Earth as it was the core of Chibaku Tensei.

You thought that the Otsutsuki were able to connect to the life force of the Gedou Mazou in order to stay alive. However, the Gedou Mazou is sealed in the very center of the moon. This would be extremely difficult to access as Madara had to be directly connected to the Mazou by those white chords to sustain his life. When I first saw the pic of that creature from The Last, I thought it looked more like Hamura than it does Toneri. It looked to me as if the creature/person had attempted to absorb too much senjutsu chakra and thus was turned into stone.

It has never been stated whether Kaguya had the Byakugan prior to consuming the fruit. As the pics of Toneri have shown, he does not have the Byuakugan. That is likely the reason he requires one of the Hyuuga for whatever his plan is. Toneri is also confirmed to be a wielder of puppets. If he did indeed wipe out his own clan for disagreeing with him, maybe he turned them into human puppets like Sasori.

 

[Vega]

Spoiler

1. agree
2. agree
3. partially agree, as I think Kaguya clan and Hyuuga clan came from Hamura. Also I believe Uzumaki came later from both Hamura and Hagoromo linage mixxing, probably Kaguya clan mixing with Senjuu clan lol.
4. Probably, However the question would arise how the castle was build up and who did it. I would preffer more theory of Ootsutsuki being deities as servants of Gods to create humankind or watch over them. As deities they could movie freely between worlds.
5. agree
6. Well I am not sure about it. I would prefer Hamura keeping them away believing in his brother way to solve conflict and misuse of chakra so when Hagoromo left, and even although peace was attained charka in fear of chakra being used again as weapons Toneri decided to punish Mankind
7. Most likely or possible he was the lastest of child from Ootsutsuki linage, he could be born recently.
8. Most likely or he tried to release Kaguya finding her way to deal with humankind as only way to remove chakra from the world.
9. Possible or use them as sacrifices to bring Ootsutsuki people back
10. doubt it. The monster looks more like Hamura, which shows That Toneri most likely merged dead Hamura body(idk how he died) with giant piece of rock or fused him with it using yang release he brought life to him but control him to bring judgement on humankind and against his own descendants, Hyuuga.
11. Indeed it would be like you said

Thanks for the thread I enjoyed reading it as it was well organised/structured with nice details and well connected/put together.

It was indeed worth of my time, I hope you will reply to my post sharing your thoughts.

There is no doubt this movie has really high potential, just wait and see how Kishi uses it

3. I agree with you, and lol.
4. Great point, I like your ideas of them being deities. I like to think of them as being natural "super-humans" in the sense they cannot survive in harsh environments/have certain physical advantages that the average "Humanoids" do not; I remember seeing something like this in the databook, not sure on this though. One thing that makes me wonder is the fact that Kaguya came to "earth" with the set goal of eating the Divine Fruit; therefore she must've had some sort of knowledge on it to come and do so.
6. Interesting idea, I wonder if the moon people were able to connect via ninshuu. I'd expect that that would allow them to bond, but then again Madara pointed out a good point that even if Ninshuu did work, people are fundamentally different in philosophy/nature/etc.
11. I must admit that it looks too similarily to Hamura to be a coincide, so I definitely understand what you mean. I just hope Kishi doesn't pull a Hamura is a bad guy move lol. I thought it might've been Toneri as perhaps he was trying to get closer to Hamura/Kaguya's power, but you make a good point. Tbh, I kinda think that is Hamura too so I think I should probably change that part of the theory maybe. An initial thought I had was that Hamura somehow became mutated by the Mazou/Toneri, but yeah I need to look more into this.

Spoiler

Very detailed and interesting thread as usual man!

The small pieces of information that we got from the databook were useful, but have raised many more questions. It appears that the entire Otsutsuki clan came with Kaguya to Earth when she searched for the fruit of the Shinju. Likely after consuming the fruit, she had her children with a human man (though it could also have been one of the Otsutsuki). This would have made Hagoromo and Hamura half human. After the Juubi was sealed in the moon, Hamura goes with the Otsutsuki to guard the Gedou Statues just like the databook states.
Thanks man! Good point, this databook has peaked my curiosity tbh. We still don't know who Kaguya's husband/etc. was and at the same time there's also this: It's explicitly stated that Kaguya came to ate the fruit, therefore she must've had knowledge on the Fruit/Shinju to do so. But how did she maintain/have said knowledge if she came from another world? I really hope Naruto the Last explains this.

As for the means in which the Otsutsuki traveled to the moon I pretty much agree. The castles in Kaguya's dimensions were never explained in the manga, so them being some type of portal is possible. The Last probably has been in production for quite some time, so Kishi would have had to know how he intended to end the story in advance. Maybe he intentionally left Kaguya's back story vague so that it could be filled in by the movie. There also is the possibility that Hagoromo could have somehow used his Rinnegan's connection with the Gedou Mazou, to reverse summon the Otsutsuki to the moon just like how he was able to summon the bijuu and Team 7 from Kaguya's dimension.

Good point, I think Kishi (hopefully) will explain all this in the movie. Though it probably would've been better writing wise to do some more development of Kaguya, I felt she was rather bland in the manga. Very interesting and it's definitely plausible. You brought up a great point yourself that he was able to summon Naruto/Co. despite the fact they were in another dimension. Only thing I wonder is that why might have the connection/form of communication been possibly severed by the Sage Brothers; and why didn't Hagoromo explain to Naruto/Sasuke more about Hamura.

I'd like to think that Hamura had several children which went on to become the ancestors of the Hyuuga, Kaguya (they must have some direct connection to Kaguya), as well as possibly Juugo's clan. Perhaps the full blooded Otsutsuki's viewed the human race as inferior, and after being on the moon for so long, they began to despise Hamura for being human himself.

Very intuitive thinking on Jugo's clan; upon second inspection; Jugo's Curse Form look rather similar to the Monster from the Last. And the inferiority perspective is also probably considered Kaguya's "royal/divine blood" and how they came to essentially "rule humanity." Perhaps Hamura was even condemned for being half-human presumably.

As you stated, they likely became jealous that Hagoromo and Hamura's descendants were allowed to roam free on the Earth while they were forced to live on the barren, desolate moon for who knows how long. Also there's the fact that Hagoromo gave chakra away to humanity as a means to spread ninshuu. The Otsutsuki, who likely had some connection to the Shinju itself, were not happy that humanity was using what should rightfully belong to them (chakra), much less utilizing it as as weapon. They rebelled against Hamura's leadership, and as you stated, with Toneri as the leader. I like your idea that the absence of the Gedou Mazou in the moon is what causes it to crash to the Earth as it was the core of Chibaku Tensei.

I love what you said about the possibility of the Otsutsuki disapproving of helping the humans. It reminds me of the Man of Steel part where General Zod condemns Superman for trying to help the humans instead of ruling over them.

You thought that the Otsutsuki were able to connect to the life force of the Gedou Mazou in order to stay alive. However, the Gedou Mazou is sealed in the very center of the moon. This would be extremely difficult to access as Madara had to be directly connected to the Mazou by those white chords to sustain his life. When I first saw the pic of that creature from The Last, I thought it looked more like Hamura than it does Toneri. It looked to me as if the creature/person had attempted to absorb too much senjutsu chakra and thus was turned into stone.

That's a great point, I hadn't thought much about the means of connection. Perhaps they had some method of connecting, or being that they were living on the Statue's sealed vessel, they were able to extract chakra similar to how one draws nature energy, as the Juubi is essentially nature energy itself. And again, I can't deny that the statue looks to familiar to Hamura. I'm starting to think its him to now tbh, so I might change some of this theory up. I feel this would be a good way to introduce more about Hamura. One initial thought that I had but didn't add to the thread (will do later though) is that Toneri is merely a puppet used by Hamura; but I'm still going on Hagoromo's story that Hamura is a good guy.

It has never been stated whether Kaguya had the Byakugan prior to consuming the fruit. As the pics of Toneri have shown, he does not have the Byuakugan. That is likely the reason he requires one of the Hyuuga for whatever his plan is. Toneri is also confirmed to be a wielder of puppets. If he did indeed wipe out his own clan for disagreeing with him, maybe he turned them into human puppets like Sasori.
I think its possible that Kaguya may've had some difference in genes from the rest of the Otsutsuki being she was the princess, and that she probably had some sort of Byakugan prior to eating the fruit; and after eating the fruit, it became what we know as "Byakugan." And good point about Sasori, that might be the case tbh, as to where the hell would he get puppets lol. He also kinda looks similar to Sasori tbh.

Very nice and Thoughtful response, put my response in red

 

[zeezzay]

Very detailed and interesting thread as usual man!

The small pieces of information that we got from the databook were useful, but have raised many more questions. It appears that the entire Otsutsuki clan came with Kaguya to Earth when she searched for the fruit of the Shinju. Likely after consuming the fruit, she had her children with a human man (though it could also have been one of the Otsutsuki). This would have made Hagoromo and Hamura half human. After the Juubi was sealed in the moon, Hamura goes with the Otsutsuki to guard the Gedou Statues just like the databook states.

As for the means in which the Otsutsuki traveled to the moon I pretty much agree. The castles in Kaguya's dimensions were never explained in the manga, so them being some type of portal is possible. The Last probably has been in production for quite some time, so Kishi would have had to know how he intended to end the story in advance. Maybe he intentionally left Kaguya's back story vague so that it could be filled in by the movie. There also is the possibility that Hagoromo could have somehow used his Rinnegan's connection with the Gedou Mazou, to reverse summon the Otsutsuki to the moon just like how he was able to summon the bijuu and Team 7 from Kaguya's dimension.

I'd like to think that Hamura had several children which went on to become the ancestors of the Hyuuga, Kaguya (they must have some direct connection to Kaguya), as well as possibly Juugo's clan. Perhaps the full blooded Otsutsuki's viewed the human race as inferior, and after being on the moon for so long, they began to despise Hamura for being human himself.

As you stated, they likely became jealous that Hagoromo and Hamura's descendants were allowed to roam free on the Earth while they were forced to live on the barren, desolate moon for who knows how long. Also there's the fact that Hagoromo gave chakra away to humanity as a means to spread ninshuu. The Otsutsuki, who likely had some connection to the Shinju itself, were not happy that humanity was using what should rightfully belong to them (chakra), much less utilizing it as as weapon. They rebelled against Hamura's leadership, and as you stated, with Toneri as the leader. I like your idea that the absence of the Gedou Mazou in the moon is what causes it to crash to the Earth as it was the core of Chibaku Tensei.

You thought that the Otsutsuki were able to connect to the life force of the Gedou Mazou in order to stay alive. However, the Gedou Mazou is sealed in the very center of the moon. This would be extremely difficult to access as Madara had to be directly connected to the Mazou by those white chords to sustain his life. When I first saw the pic of that creature from The Last, I thought it looked more like Hamura than it does Toneri. It looked to me as if the creature/person had attempted to absorb too much senjutsu chakra and thus was turned into stone.

It has never been stated whether Kaguya had the Byakugan prior to consuming the fruit. As the pics of Toneri have shown, he does not have the Byuakugan. That is likely the reason he requires one of the Hyuuga for whatever his plan is. Toneri is also confirmed to be a wielder of puppets. If he did indeed wipe out his own clan for disagreeing with him, maybe he turned them into human puppets like Sasori.

Good, I understood it very well

But going back to OP, so are u saying Humara is Ostuki and Hyuga????
I think Spark is right both bros could be half human and half aliens

 

[KCMNaruto]

3. I agree with you, and lol.
4. Great point, I like your ideas of them being deities. I like to think of them as being natural "super-humans" in the sense they cannot survive in harsh environments/have certain physical advantages that the average "Humanoids" do not; I remember seeing something like this in the databook, not sure on this though. One thing that makes me wonder is the fact that Kaguya came to "earth" with the set goal of eating the Divine Fruit; therefore she must've had some sort of knowledge on it to come and do so.
6. Interesting idea, I wonder if the moon people were able to connect via ninshuu. I'd expect that that would allow them to bond, but then again Madara pointed out a good point that even if Ninshuu did work, people are fundamentally different in philosophy/nature/etc.
11. I must admit that it looks too similarily to Hamura to be a coincide, so I definitely understand what you mean. I just hope Kishi doesn't pull a Hamura is a bad guy move lol. I thought it might've been Toneri as perhaps he was trying to get closer to Hamura/Kaguya's power, but you make a good point. Tbh, I kinda think that is Hamura too so I think I should probably change that part of the theory maybe. An initial thought I had was that Hamura somehow became mutated by the Mazou/Toneri, but yeah I need to look more into this.

Thanks a lot buddy I am glad you like some of my ideas. However I am curious why didn't you reffer to all points listed by me ?

8. Most likely or he tried to release Kaguya finding her way to deal with humankind as only way to remove chakra from the world.
9. Possible or use them as sacrifices to bring Ootsutsuki people back
10. doubt it. The monster looks more like Hamura, which shows That Toneri most likely merged dead Hamura body(idk how he died) with giant piece of rock or fused him with it using yang release he brought life to him but control him to bring judgement on humankind and against his own descendants, Hyuuga.

Coud you reffer to them and share your thoughts with me about them ?

 

[Vega]

^Yeah my apologies man, I forgot to address some. Tight on time atm so I will definitely give a more proper response when I can lol.