Naruto Storyline: An analysis.

[Trendy]

And for the Kishi being sexist, I already gave one proof. I could give more, if it's necessary.
Not to mention that he, himself recognized that he is somewhat sexist when she said he doesn't know how to handle powerful women.

well your not gonna call walt disney sexest because all the girls get recucued by a prince or always get captured by monsters!
its just the way most good stories are

 

[Houssem Uchiha]

Well that's was looong but i read it ( skipped the sakura parts ) and it's pretty good a job well done +Rep

 

[Chatte]

well your not gonna call walt disney sexest because all the girls get recucued by a prince or always get captured by monsters!
its just the way most good stories are

Well yeah, I know, but here we're talking about another level of stories. Those type of stories were 'damzel in distress', not implying war, female fighters and stuff like that.

Well that's was looong but i read it ( skipped the sakura parts ) and it's pretty good a job well done +Rep

It's not just Sakura there, lol.
Anyway, thank you! ^_^

 

[soggysombrero]

1. Its not a sexist thing.

other female ninjas besides sakura have badass fights, and powers

- ino was a total badass when choji was being wimpy vs asuma...for example

2. what is your point? u only explained what the will of fire is...nothing to do with levels of power, or comparison of power...all u said was what the will of fire is...u made no pont at all here

3. you constructively criticize people you know personally. it is impossible to constructively criticize kishimoto, because he cannot hear your complaints, hence he cannot change his ideas or story ine because u criticized it.

you contructively criticize, peers, co-workers, and siblings, not professional manga writers

if the person you are criticizing cannot hear your criticism, it is not contructive

it is gossip, or just complaining...do you understand? the manga naruto, is not some rough draft of an essay? and your complaints can in no way contribute to the manga

4. get some friends

I'm glad you dont make many threads

hope you don't take my reply as flaming, because it not supposed to be hurtful

its just constructive criticism

 

[Chatte]

1. Its not a sexist thing.

other female ninjas besides sakura have badass fights, and powers

- ino was a total badass when choji was being wimpy vs asuma...for example

2. what is your point? u only explained what the will of fire is...nothing to do with levels of power, or comparison of power...all u said was what the will of fire is...u made no pont at all here

3. you constructively criticize people you know personally. it is impossible to constructively criticize kishimoto, because he cannot hear your complaints, hence he cannot change his ideas or story ine because u criticized it.

you contructively criticize, peers, co-workers, and siblings, not professional manga writers

if the person you are criticizing cannot hear your criticism, it is not contructive

it is gossip, or just complaining...do you understand? the manga naruto, is not some rough draft of an essay? and your complaints can in no way contribute to the manga

4. get some friends

I'm glad you dont make many threads

hope you don't take my reply as flaming, because it not supposed to be hurtful

its just constructive criticism

1. Well, that was one example, when besides that have we seen Ino fight light that? So, as a counter example we can give Sakura's battle with Sasori.

2. My point is that people forget what the meaning of a Hokage is and they start fights where they shouldn't even begin them in the first place.

3. Where does it says that? Do you think movie critics for example know the whole cast of a movie? No, still, they criticize the movie. Be in constructively or not. Same goes here.
So yes it is constructive. The fact that it doesn't get to the author that another thing. I was talking about constructive critique in order for people to understand and stop flaming with no base.

4. I do have some friends, thank you for your concern.

Yeah, sure, it's constructive criticism... But then again, you contradict yourself a bit.
Anyway.
Thanks for taking your time to respond anyway.

 

[Invsblphntm]

Are you trying to imply Sakura crying as Sakura being a strong character? Nah, she just watches and cries and relies on Naruto, there is nothing sexist about it. I also think Choji is a weak character too, he also cries and relies on Shikamaru. Kishimoto did make a lot of girls weak, but the biggest, most obvious exception is Tsunade. Tsunade is the HOKAGE. The Hokage is said to be the strongest person in the village, obviously Naruto surpassed her (he is the main character after all), but no one else in the village can beat her. She is respected by every character in the manga even Madara at this point, Kishi obviously recognized her as a very strong, important, respectable character. Yes, he recognized HER.

 

[Cerox0]

Nice,+Rep but nothing we haven't talked about before.
Don't worry the thing is theres too many little kids who Idolize these adult male characters and wouldn't even know how to talk to a women. Hence why sexism flows around through NB

 

[htmwall]

I couldn't read the whole thing.sorry but it's too long.the only thing i learned from watching naruto is "life is not fair"

 

[Trendy]

4. I do have some friends, thank you for your concern.

<3im your friend!<3

 

[ChrisWolf]

Hello, everyone!​

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First of all, let me say that before doing this thread, I have been thinking about this for a long time, whether to do this thread or not. (PS: In case you decide to read it, I would recommend to listen to this on the background:

You must be registered for see links

)

Regarding myself, I am not such a big thread opener, if you count my threads, they're max. 6 or something like that.

Leaving that aside, I don't know how much I am going to be writing here so, if you are not prepared to read a quite long chit-chat thread, I would kindly ask you not to flame the thread - although I am prepared for the flaming, considering the types of subject I want to 'touch'.

My thread it's going to be about the storyline, generally, being it manga or anime - some have only read the manga, some have only seen the anime, some both -, about the whole meaning behind the Naruto tale, about us, the readers, about misconceptions, about us as people and what we have learned from this tale, about everything, don't know, you mean it!

Maybe I won't be touching some subject and you want to do it, please, do it! All I ask is to be presented in a respectful way, if not, than don't post at all, thank you!

I am going to be touching subject that have been very controversial.

So, let me start:

1. Sakura Haruno/Tsunade Senju hate

Just because they're females and they don't have flashy jutsus, they are one of the most hated characters in the whole Naruto verse. Why? Maybe because Kishimoto's sexism got to you too! And I am sure that to some of you it did.
And don't tell me it didn't because I won't believe it not in a million years. It's a proven fact, one leads the way, the others (the majority) follows. Look at the whole democracy thing where we are supposed to have free will but, as a mere fact, we're just some tools. We're given the ideea that we have freedom while we forget to THINK - a simple process - so, in that way, we became useful tools, as I previously stated.
If someone asks himself/herself what I am talking about all I'll have to say is that I am talking about mass-population control. Google it, do whatever you want to do about it, in order to find more about the thing.

Anyway, what I mean is that if Kishimoto is a sexist, it's logical that mostly of its readers become sexists, he just transposes his way to be to the readers through the story.

Why do I say he is sexist? Well look at it: compare the battles in which the men from Naruto series have been portrayed and compare the women's ones.
The most eloquent one: Chuunin exams. All the rest fights compared to Ino-Sakura fight. Clearly the men were the dominant power.
Which, if you ask me, not that I'm a girl, I am the one who believes in equality of the human being, be it woman or man, it's not right.
Ino - Sakura fight could have had the same awesomeness as the boys fights.
If that's not sexism, then what is it?
Secondly, the way he made Sakura all whinny little scared girl.
It's not like that, girls generally are known to be more mature and strong willing than boys - no offense! He just didn't gave her any type of bloodline, nothing. Just a great intellect - she was the one that was the best from team 7 in class.

Another thing is that you say that all she does is count on Naruto. It's not like that, the biggest thing that made the majority of you think that, was the Sasuke retrieval arc.

Well, let me say something to you: IF it wouldn't be for Sakura to ask Naruto to bring Sasuke back, the bond between both of them (Sasuke and Naruto) wouldn't have been that strong. Why? Because Sakura was the one who strengthened that bond, she told Naruto that HE was the only one able to bring him back so that made Naruto think more about his connection/bond to Sasuke.

Yes, that whinny little girl did that, she is the balance between Naruto and Sasuke. Sakura always loved Sasuke, who was too busy playing cool, who made Naruto in the progress of gaining more of Sakura's attention compete with him, who made Sasuke knowledge Naruto's power, which made them rivals/best friends.

Most of you don't understand these little hidden things because all you are busy with power displays and flashy jutsus.

Secondly, you don't seem to understand emotions. Sakura cries, yes, she does that a lot, but she doesn't cry because she's weak, she cries because she's too powerful mentally, that somehow she has to let it all out.

Tears are not of those who are weak, but of those who have been strong for too long.
​

And, yes! Even if you deny this, the facts show it, and maybe not in a regular day by day basis where you wouldn't understand, but in a fight.

Remember when she just kicked Ino out of her head? Well that's mental power! Pure raw mental power.
Besides that, let's bring it down to the human part - how many of you have loved? But truly loved! I am talking to those of you who know what love is. Do you know how it feels when your love is unshared? Do you have any ideea? Just because the majority of you are boys and boys usually don't display emotions, doesn't mean that you can hide the fact that we all feel/have feelings. Because, in the end, that's what Naruto is about. Human things like feelings, bonds etc.
Maybe someday when you'll love and get hurt and be somewhere alone in a corner, crying your asses out, maybe that some day you will remember this annoying character who just used to express her feelings too much - for some.

Another thing, you keep blaming her for telling Naruto that she loved him, that she doesn't love Sasuke anymore and you say that she was just being bitchy.

Does any of you have any idea on how much pressure was on her heart? Does any of you think about the torment in her mind? Having to protect her good friend and killing the one she loves.
She didn't tell Naruto she loved him because she was trying to act as a bitch, she did it because she was trying to PROTECT him. As best as she could! How do you think Naruto would have react if she just told him the truth? She just needed to know Naruto safe, not being exposed to any threats. Even if Naruto in the end found out and got there.

Which led me to the next subject I want to expose. That she was weak when she got there to kill Sasuke and then, again, she had to be saved. Ok, I agree, she had to be saved... but my question to you is this: how many of you can kill the one you love? Do you think it was so easy for Sakura to go there and try in doing it? No, it wasn't!

Maybe this was the wake-up call for her, this was necessary for her to finally see that Sasuke is not the Sasuke she once knew and that next time she will need to be more careful. Although she will keep hoping that someday Sasuke will come back and be the Sasuke she knew.
Admit it, we all hope! That's the main thing we do when things usually get ****ed-up, we still damn hope! Because this is what hope is, a lying bitch that makes us believe everything will get better and so she manages to lie ourselves until we're bye-bye, if you know what I mean.

Sakura once again has to be thanked because she saved both of them, Naruto and Sasuke. Remember the first part, against the Sound team. She wasn't that great, didn't had that many flashy jutsus but she fought until the last moment to protect both of them. She showed then how powerful is, how strong her will is! She didn't cared about the sacrifice she had to make in order to keep both Sasuke and Naruto alive. She cut her hair - a very precious thing for her. Tell me how many of you gave up to a very very very precious thing for your friends. But truly did. Because we have to admit, we tend to be pretty selfish people. Her will for the ones she love is just among the most powerful ones in the whole Narutoverse.

For example, here you have a pretty clear view of her will:

"I'll get you! Even if you blow off my arms and legs, if I take in your poison and it paralyzes me, I'll get you I swear it! No matter how much you resist, no matter what you do.... I'll beat you half to death and make you talk about Orochimaru!! Got it?"​

- this is Sakura to Sasori. So yes, she's strong willed when she wants something. Doesn't matter what she has to do, she just does it! And in the end she did it.

Now, most of you will probably say that it was thanks to Chyio, that it wasn't an unfair fight and so on.
Well, let me tell you, it wasn't!
If it wouldn't have been for Sakura, Chyio would have died more quickly. Tell me how Chyio would have been able to dodge the iron sand if it wasn't for Sakura?
It was a fair fight, Sasori had the main puppet, himself and the other 100 puppets while Chyio had Sakura and the 10 puppets. It was even in power display. So stop saying it was an unfair fight. It was! And Sasori himself acknowledged Sakura's power and admitted she is not a brat to be played with.

And don't worry, if Sasori was defeated, it's not such a big deal. He still remains the Sasori of Great Red Sand, a true worthy shinoby of his name. He just died with honor, fighting!
So in terms of will and raw power, Sakura rocks hard! Yes, even without all those flashy jutsus.

"I may not have amazing weapons in me like a puppet, but what I do have is my masters contempt for losing... what I also got from my master was unarmed combat skills" ​

So, yeah, whenever you say you hate her just because she's weak and she cries a lot, think about the cause first, don't go directly to the effect!

Speaking of will power, here I pass down to Tsunade.
The legendary kunoichi Tsunade. Just because she was Senju and happens to be Senju Hashirama's granddaughter, and just because she doesn't have a mokuton bloodline, no flashy jutsu, just raw power and EXCELLENT medical ninja skills, she is trashed/bashed/hated however you want to say.
Most of you criticized her in the Pein arc just because she stood there and, supposedly to you, didn't do nothing. But the fact that she kept alive the whole village, it's nothing to you.
Maybe she should have left everyone to die? Maybe that's how you would have loved her? I don't know.
That's a thing that bothers me, if it's not about pure flashy jutsus - as I like to call them, you don't care at all. You don't see behind that stuff, the human part, as I previously said.
You forget that big things are done from many small things. A small gesture here, a small gesture there, and in the end gets something big.
The spring doesn't come with one flower.
And to return at the Pein arc, even after she used most of her chakra, Tsunade came down to fight Pein, as weakened as she was. Only that Naruto appeared in the main stage and asked her to back off. She did that because Naruto asked her, not because that was her intention. NO!
Her intention was to protect the Leaf, even with the cost of her life.

"Why am I putting my life on the line? Because now… I am the Fifth Hokage of Konohagakure!"
​

Speaking of life, here I go to the next one.
Some of you keep accusing her that she left Jiraya die. No, she didn't! She actually wanted to go with him, be there with him, but Jiraya asked her to stay in the village. And she had to stay, the village cannot stay without a Hokage. Besides, she trusted him as he trusted her.
And that means with the title of Hokage! All of you keep saying that she is crappy as a Hokage but look at the war arc how badass she is. She was the only one who could smash into Madara's Susano'o. I don't think that's nothing. I mean, come on, she is best known for her raw power who cannot be matched by anyone in the Narutoverse. If she wouldn't have been great, Jiraya wouldn't have searched for her if he wouldn't have been sure she is a great candidate. Even with hall his power he admitted it that she is a strong ninja. Remember that he has been close to death twice. One of them was because of Tsunade.
But about Tsunade, so I won't make it long, I would love to show you some of Tazzilla's posts. That man is an encyclopedia when it comes to explaining her feats.
The most important thing that Tsunade has, even if it's not the most powerful from the Hokages and stuff like that, she has the most powerful will of FIRE! Besides Hashirama, of course.
Speaking of will of fire, I will pass to the next topic I want to share my opinion about.

2. Hokages display of power.

What do I refer on when I say Hokage's display of power?
Well, generally what I've seen on NB is people arguing on who is the most powerful Hokage. Whether is Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen or Minato.
All those threads started hatred amongst yourselves making you forget the true purpose of a hokage.
And when I say the true purpose, I refer to that little teaching Hiruzen gave to Asuma about the King, who later, passed to Shikamaru.
The true Hokage purpose lies withing the "king' theory and into the will of fire.

I will let you some quotes here, maybe you'll think more about this whole power thing, and maybe you'll start to appreciate/value more every Hokage Konoha had, instead of arguing amongst yourselves.

"Konoha is my home! The Hokage is one who continues to act as the main pillar of the house, protecting it!! He's the one who carries the will of Konoha, entrusted with it…"

"To me Konoha isn't just an organisation. Every year there are a lot of ninja born and raised in Konoha… They live, fight to protect this village and what is precious they would go to their death. Even if we are not related by blood, those of the village like these are, to me, my most precious, most important… family!"

"Even if you were to kill me, the pillar would not crumble. I'm the man who inherited the will of Konoha, the will of the First and Second. I am the Third Hokage!!! No matter how much you target Konoha, there'll be a new Hokage who'll inherit my will… and become the pillar to protect Konoha!"


"And Shikamaru. You're so smart… and have great sense as a shinobi. You could definitely become Hokage. But… you're too lazy… You'd probably hate it. I never even beat you once at shōgi… Ah, yes… Remember our talk about the King?…"

"The "kings" are the unborn children who will grow up to take care of the leaf."

Don't you get the message from all of it? Well if you don't, the great 3rd Hokage put it all together for us. So:

"In this society, true power is not attained from mastering all the world's techniques. This is something I have already taught you. When there is something important to protect… that's when a shinobi's true power emerges."

And with that, I rest my case with this topic. U_U

Another thing I want to discuss is about us, readers.

3. Expressing opinions about the Naruto storyline.

This ideea of mine started after reading SasukeTheViper EMS's thead about Neji.
Here is the link if anyone is interested:

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What the man was saying is that he was basically disappointed because Kishi kind of screwed-up with the storyline and, for example, he trolled one of the best characters from Part 1, Neji.
And well, he got the typical brainless response that 'gtfo, don't watch it, bla, bla'.
People, have some of you ever heard about constructive critique?
I'll quote myself from the topic, so I won't have to write again.



So, basically here you have the definition of constructive criticisim:

"Constructive criticism is criticism kindly meant that has a goal of improving some area of another’s person’s life or work. Often constructive criticism refers specifically to the critique of someone else’s written or artistic work."

So, if I say that I don't like this, or that, it's not because, oh my God, I hate the story/show, no! Because I want it to get better. Tell me, how many of you wouldn't have loved this war to be more bad-ass?
Because we have to admit it, until now, everything around this war was rushed, unfortunately. The Sage mode was too trolled, same as the Edo Tensei who was supposed to be pretty bad-ass, the Kages were too low-dropped on power, seemed like they haven't had anything compared to Madara who was OP'd as hell and so on and so forth.
Don't get me wrong, I love Madara, Madara was into the first things that got me into Naruto, the first Naruto avi/sig I did was with Madara, I loved the mistery that surrounded him, the legends that were told about him.
That's why, unfortunately I was a little disappointed in Madara's way of being now. I would have expected him to not be so full of himself. I agree, he is one of the most bad-ass shinobi in Naruto verse, and as I previously told you, I like him very much, only that I would have loved him to be a more..how should I say it? Upright? More of a 'do-er". Instead, until he does something he has to babble about how great he was and stuff like that.
Well, we all know that he was the legendary Uchiha Madara and the merely pronunciation of his name would make many tremble, we don't need to be reminded.
I mean, I personally don't like people who worship themselves, and that's how Madara is right now. I would have loved to be the way Kishi made us believe he is in the first part.
All I am talking about here is the personality part, not the powers. The powers, hands down! Speak right of himself.
But the personality has some gaps if you ask me.
Probably some of you are going to flame me, so that's why I feel the necessity to once explain you, this is a constructive critique.
I am just expressing my opinion on how could have Kishi made Madara even greater.
If he is going to show Hashirama, I hope his personality remains intact as in the first series. A righteous person, calm, calculated with the same will of fire.

Now you've probably asking yourself why the hell have I've written so much about some uninteresting things - for some of you, or why have I written so much about this story if it's just pure fiction.
Well, until a point I will agree with you... Until a point.

4. Naruto's connections to real life

Well, now I'm going to answer you why I have written so much about this.
Well, this story is very important to me as I have learned strong lessons from it. Naruto will mean a lot for me even when I'll be older. Why?
Because I have met many things from real life and Naruto made me learn values that I never knew they existed. That's why I cherish it so much.
As well Naruto made me ask myself questions over life that I don't know if I'll ever get the answer to them.
Of course, in the story everything will end nicely, because it has to, we have to learn again the good triumphs over evil every time, so all the problems will be done. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the good vs. evil thing, I like the fact that good always triumphs over evil but, what about real life?
Is it that way?
Many of Pein's questions got stuck in my head and I still ask myself those question and try to get answers. But, for now, I haven't.

And not to mention the right to the subject quotes. I read them and I can't amaze myself that they are so true! And I ask myself what's the resolve to all of this.

As I pleasure I will let some of his quotes.

"We're both of the same breed, after all… motives for war are of no concern. Religion, ideology, resources, land, grudges, love, or just because… No matter how pathetic the reason, it's enough to start a war. War will never cease to exist… Reasons can be thought up after the fact. Human nature pursues strife."


"We are both but men, driven to seek vengeance under the banner of justice. However… if there is justice in vengeance, then justice will breed only more vengeance… thus forging more links in a chain of hatred."

I see… That is noble of you. That is justice indeed. However… My family… My friends… My village… They suffered the same fate as this village by you ninja of Konoha. How is it fair to allow only you people to preach about peace and justice?"

"Dying like trash… never ending hatred… pain that never heals… that is war…"
​

And so many others. I bet you know them.
Well, for the moment I cease my pledge here.
I know it's long, many of you will probably show me the laughing faces with I haven't read, lol, but for those who did, I thank you!
I am waiting for opinions, comments, critiques, anything except bashing and being disrespectful.
If you don't like it, SIMPLY, don't answer it! Close it. You have many options.

I have to say that I can't find one thing in this post that I don't agree with, especially the sexism part, I think making tsunade one of the sanin was one of kishis small attempts to cover up his sexism. Naruto is actually the one who taught me the single most important and influential thing in my life....he taught me to never give up on what I want.

The tale of naruto displays and represents every fracture and error with the nature of humanity although it takes it to the extreme......an example would be the continous redundance in the molding of some of the super villains of naruto, the desire for peace. In our country that is a concept we see no need to explore since most of our lives are peaceful and it is the same in Japan. So I think he is going a little overkill in that being the main reasoning in Nagato,tobi,madara and hanzo. Even though the world of naruto is obviously less peaceful then our own still I wouldn't mind him giving the "evil" doers of naruto some more relatable motivations.

His portrayal of the relationships between men and women is too childish and cartoonish and he is killing the respect we as readers could of had for most of the female characters.

But the best and most positive thing I can say about naruto is that kishi is showing readers to never give up or give in which has been a central theme throughout most mangas over the years but I believe kishi really does it better with naruto.

 

[MissShakra]

I agree with you on everything, however you forgot to mention the fact that people only hate Sakura because Naruto loves her (at least as far as we know). I get sick of people hating on her when she is the glue that keeps Sasuke and Naruto together! The fact that she knows she can't do anything to help either of them is really sad. She wants to help them out so bad but she doesnt have the power to do anything but just get in the way (Kishi's fault...grrr) i think his idea for her character was excellent, but sadly most people only see certain aspects and not the whole picture.

Naruto's theme and life connections are very chilling too. Not just what Pein talked about but some of Kakashi's lessons to team 7 like the one about how if you leave behind teammates, then your trash. Teaching teamwork and trust is essential not only in the ninja world but in the real world. Itachi also had some good quotes about reality and its illusions and even some of the mindf*cking he did to Sasuke was true to some aspect and he showed his genius once again when he realized that he had truly failed Sasuke more than he helped him. Naruto's determination to take on the problems of the world is a trait very few people today even have. He will do anything to save anyone hes close to, he keeps promises, he doesn't take his friendships for granted, he truly is a one of a kind person.

Anyways though awesome job!! The women in Naruto are just as kickass, we just have to look harder for the proof

 

[LBeezy]

Chatte, this is a GREAT thread. I read the whole thing and thought it was very insightful!
One thing I've noticed is that, people in general tend to talk sh*t about other people or things that they themselves do not and cannot understand. A lot of Narutobase members especially do not fully grasp how important some characters really are. Or how intelligent and deep this story actually is. I believe you said it best in another post, that people need BRAINS to appreciate Naruto. And its true. I also said to you earlier, that without Sakura there's no Naruto. She's literally almost 1/3 of the story. Her character is the love part of the storyline. She's the one that wants to help, and change the outcome of certain things but can't. Her emotions are as equal, if not stronger, than her raw physical power. Kishi however made her this way, yes, but I think its because he made every single character in Naruto play a particular part and role, so that people in real life can find one or a few that they can relate to and feel where there coming from. Maybe help shape the way they live their lives in the real world. Its always nice to know someone is going through the same things as you, even if it is a fictional person. Hence me also agreeing with you on how much Naruto relates to real life.

I really liked the fact that you put in a lot of quotes from the characters you were discussing. It made your point even that much more powerful.

I'm not gonna lie, there will always be someone, somewhere, that just wants to disagree and argue with others. Its human nature. But the mature people won't even waste their time on foolishness like that. Its NarutoBase. A website intended on solely discussing Naruto. There's no reason for some members to act the way they do, but they do anyway. Lol. Carry on conversations with the ones that do agree and are "on the same wave" and ignore the ones who have attitude problems and confrontational cravings. Lol that's my advice at least. XD haha

Anyway, once again, great post! I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
+rep

 

[naruttebayo]

too lazy to read

but gotta give + rep for this colorful thread , and for huge effort .

 

[Simplified]

Woah, rep for you. Good points, skimmed through it. I'll probably look over the details when i have time.

 

[elxdark]

Woooow, Good job you did here
I'm with you in almost all.
Respect to sakura theme, oh god I would wish have the half of your knowledge in english to write my thoughts here as you did. I think like you about her, and as a man i think this community is too sexist...
I can't stand how almost all of this community says BS about her without sense.
Nice thread ))

 

[Chatte]

Are you trying to imply Sakura crying as Sakura being a strong character? Nah, she just watches and cries and relies on Naruto, there is nothing sexist about it. I also think Choji is a weak character too, he also cries and relies on Shikamaru. Kishimoto did make a lot of girls weak, but the biggest, most obvious exception is Tsunade. Tsunade is the HOKAGE. The Hokage is said to be the strongest person in the village, obviously Naruto surpassed her (he is the main character after all), but no one else in the village can beat her. She is respected by every character in the manga even Madara at this point, Kishi obviously recognized her as a very strong, important, respectable character. Yes, he recognized HER.

No, she just doesn't watch and relies on Naruto. If you would have observed her character in more depth you should have seen that.
Same thing goes for Choji. In part one, if you remember, when they fought with the Sound 4, Choji gave his life to protect Shikamaru and the others. He just didn't rely on him. Yes, probably his weakest part was when he had to fight Asuma, but he was lucky they had Ino. Ino is like MissShakra said, their glue.

"Ino, you are strong willed, and dependable. Chōji and Shikamaru, they are total goof-offs. Keep them in line."

Don't forget as well, his words for Choji: "Chōji, you're a kind man who cares for his comrades. That's why… you'll become a shinobi more powerful than everyone else.".

This is the thing most people don't tend to understand, that caring for someone and willing to protect them makes you a hell-bad of a powerful person. It's not just about raw power or jutsus. Is about the will you have.
That's one of the main values Kishi is trying to learn us.

And, yes, I agree, Kishi made up by making Madara recognizing her, but in the same time he showed his sexist part when Tsunade talking to Madara about the Senju inheritance and power: "And yes, I am a woman" - you can't deny that fact.
I agree that it was a good move there with Tsunade and if he will keep it that way, he will improve the quality.
Anyway, thank you for your time on reading and commenting!

Nice,+Rep but nothing we haven't talked about before.
Don't worry the thing is theres too many little kids who Idolize these adult male characters and wouldn't even know how to talk to a women. Hence why sexism flows around through NB

Thank you!
Well, maybe these things were discussed, but I never catched those types of discussions. Maybe I would'nt have needed to make this HUGE thread that got everyone so , lol.
The thing is that it's ok to idolize the male characters, we all did, I did as a child, but we have also to learn to see beyond every story in order to understand better that story.

I couldn't read the whole thing.sorry but it's too long.the only thing i learned from watching naruto is "life is not fair"

It's ok, don't worry. And yes, totally agree with you on that one!
Thank you for your time on replying

<3im your friend!<3

Yes you are! :hug:

I have to say that I can't find one thing in this post that I don't agree with, especially the sexism part, I think making tsunade one of the sanin was one of kishis small attempts to cover up his sexism. Naruto is actually the one who taught me the single most important and influential thing in my life....he taught me to never give up on what I want.

The tale of naruto displays and represents every fracture and error with the nature of humanity although it takes it to the extreme......an example would be the continous redundance in the molding of some of the super villains of naruto, the desire for peace. In our country that is a concept we see no need to explore since most of our lives are peaceful and it is the same in Japan. So I think he is going a little overkill in that being the main reasoning in Nagato,tobi,madara and hanzo. Even though the world of naruto is obviously less peaceful then our own still I wouldn't mind him giving the "evil" doers of naruto some more relatable motivations.

His portrayal of the relationships between men and women is too childish and cartoonish and he is killing the respect we as readers could of had for most of the female characters.

But the best and most positive thing I can say about naruto is that kishi is showing readers to never give up or give in which has been a central theme throughout most mangas over the years but I believe kishi really does it better with naruto.

Ah, so nicely said! I love to discuss with people such as you who say things so nicely, and also adds things to 'my theory' - if I can call it like that. +rep for that
And I totally agree with you on what you said. Also taught me the bolded part.
I have to agree with the last part as well, I think Kishi should develop that part better, as many others already done it and are kind of away ahead him. But know knows, maybe the next story he'll write will be like that. Or maybe we'll get to see that in Naruto. Who knows?
Thank you for your time on reading my thread!

I agree with you on everything, however you forgot to mention the fact that people only hate Sakura because Naruto loves her (at least as far as we know). I get sick of people hating on her when she is the glue that keeps Sasuke and Naruto together! The fact that she knows she can't do anything to help either of them is really sad. She wants to help them out so bad but she doesnt have the power to do anything but just get in the way (Kishi's fault...grrr) i think his idea for her character was excellent, but sadly most people only see certain aspects and not the whole picture.

Naruto's theme and life connections are very chilling too. Not just what Pein talked about but some of Kakashi's lessons to team 7 like the one about how if you leave behind teammates, then your trash. Teaching teamwork and trust is essential not only in the ninja world but in the real world. Itachi also had some good quotes about reality and its illusions and even some of the mindf*cking he did to Sasuke was true to some aspect and he showed his genius once again when he realized that he had truly failed Sasuke more than he helped him. Naruto's determination to take on the problems of the world is a trait very few people today even have. He will do anything to save anyone hes close to, he keeps promises, he doesn't take his friendships for granted, he truly is a one of a kind person.

Anyways though awesome job!! The women in Naruto are just as kickass, we just have to look harder for the proof

Well, mostly I saw that people hated her because of being a whiny character, but yes, you are right on that too. Didn't passed my mind at that time. That's why I posted and said that I am waiting as well for comments, feedback etc.
In the end, it's not Sakura's fault that Naruto loves her, it's not like she asked for it. It just happened him to love her and her to love Sasuke. How many times didn't this happen in real life as well?
And it's not like she hates Naruto, she loves him too, but in her own way.
Regarding the part with he help, yes, you are totally right!
How many times in real life we didn't want to help someone dear to us, but we couldn't? Some things, no matter how we want, won't get resolved the way we would want. It takes time, suffering etc and in the end it still doesn't get to be resolved, even if we wish for it badly.
Sakura's intentions are good, too bad no one sees that. And, well, it's mainly Kishi's fault, unfortunately.
But, as in real life, I'll say that when you like something/someone, you have to do it with the defects as well, because nobody is perfect.
That's the problem. Most of us tend to judge someone's actions believing that we could do better, where in the end, maybe we'll do worse than that person.

Regarding the Kakashi gaiden, ah! Thank you for remembering that part to me. Yes, that was one of the strongest lessons in Naruto verse in my opinion.
Obito wasn't a great character, he was something like Sakura is now, but look at his determination in the end and how much Kakashi feels sorry to have treated him the way that he did. And after his death he just feel the pain that he does, even if he doesn't show it that much.
And that's the main lesson he teached team 7, too. That's the lesson we should all learn. Cherish/protect your comrades, no matter how strong/weak they are! Cause tomorrow maybe they won't be here...
And that's the lesson Naruto learned and like you said, his friends are important to him as they are. Sakura being as whiny as others say and Sasuke being the evil friend that he is now.
Naruto doesn't care! He just loves them for who they are and what they are together with their defects as well. As simple as that. And yet, those who say they love Naruto they don't see that.

As I said, Naruto isn't a story for anyone, it's a story that many can read, but few can understand... you have to have some brains for that.

Also, agreed once more, the women in Naruto are kickass, too bad Kishi doesn't offer them more screen time.

Thank you for taking your time to read and reply! :hug:

Chatte, this is a GREAT thread. I read the whole thing and thought it was very insightful!
One thing I've noticed is that, people in general tend to talk sh*t about other people or things that they themselves do not and cannot understand. A lot of Narutobase members especially do not fully grasp how important some characters really are. Or how intelligent and deep this story actually is. I believe you said it best in another post, that people need BRAINS to appreciate Naruto. And its true. I also said to you earlier, that without Sakura there's no Naruto. She's literally almost 1/3 of the story. Her character is the love part of the storyline. She's the one that wants to help, and change the outcome of certain things but can't. Her emotions are as equal, if not stronger, than her raw physical power. Kishi however made her this way, yes, but I think its because he made every single character in Naruto play a particular part and role, so that people in real life can find one or a few that they can relate to and feel where there coming from. Maybe help shape the way they live their lives in the real world. Its always nice to know someone is going through the same things as you, even if it is a fictional person. Hence me also agreeing with you on how much Naruto relates to real life.

I really liked the fact that you put in a lot of quotes from the characters you were discussing. It made your point even that much more powerful.

I'm not gonna lie, there will always be someone, somewhere, that just wants to disagree and argue with others. Its human nature. But the mature people won't even waste their time on foolishness like that. Its NarutoBase. A website intended on solely discussing Naruto. There's no reason for some members to act the way they do, but they do anyway. Lol. Carry on conversations with the ones that do agree and are "on the same wave" and ignore the ones who have attitude problems and confrontational cravings. Lol that's my advice at least. XD haha

Anyway, once again, great post! I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
+rep

Thank you for reading it, hun! :hug:
Well, when I said that about Sakura, you were the one I was thinking at because you popped the words in my mind and I just made the connections. I have to give you credit for that!

And, yes, I said it, and I'm going to say it once more: Naruto is a story for people with brains!
I don't want to offend anyone, but there are so many backstories in every action that covers so many aspects that leads me to the idea that most of the readers just read it superficially. Besides every main story, Kishi hides other small motifs, teachings. Only if you read it carefully, in depth you will understand all of it.
Naruto isn't a ordinary tale, it's a very complex one, and if you read it superficially, you'll never get to see the big picture in its depths. That's why, I think, everyone's reactions are most of the times so childish.
And when I say with brains, I say for people that passed the age of puberty, that started to think deeper and understand those hidden messages.
Children only tend to see the flashy battles, wow what a power Madara has, wow look how Naruto glows, he is the best, so on and so forth. They only see the display of power and that's it.
Why do you think in some countries they just cut some scenes? Just because sometimes they are too bloody, implies to many violence and that's what some will see, not the whole teaching behind that fight.

Regarding the Narutobase thingie, well, I have had my matches here for expressing my beliefs and, at first, I got angry. But, in time, as you said, I've learned that I just have to surround myself of people on the same wave.

I stand for what I believe! Even if I stand alone. And when I stand for something, I do it after I analyze. I don't just stand for foolishness.

Thank you for your time on reading this, sweetie! :hug:
It was a pleasure to talk to you, once again.

too lazy to read

but gotta give + rep for this colorful thread , and for huge effort .

It's ok, don't worry!
Thanks for your time on replying, though.

Woah, rep for you. Good points, skimmed through it. I'll probably look over the details when i have time.

Thank you for the rep and for the reply.
Whenever you have time, if you want, do it and then I'm here to talk about it.
No matter the subject!
I just started these points, the ones that bothered me the most, but there's always space for other subjects as well.
That's why I made this thread. To talk to people about any type of thing, as long as it is in the limits of the common sense.

Woooow, Good job you did here
I'm with you in almost all.
Respect to sakura theme, oh god I would wish have the half of your knowledge in english to write my thoughts here as you did. I think like you about her, and as a man i think this community is too sexist...
I can't stand how almost all of this community says BS about her without sense.
Nice thread ))

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! ^_^
Well, I guess my University studies in English paid off, hehe.
Hmm interesting opinion from a man, I got to say. Really appreciated!
Thank you for your time on reading/posting. :hug:

 

[Ngylle]

i have to say that my fully respect to your Thread, i am not even a sakura-tard but i believe she does not deserved to be hate for nothing, lets get real she is not what people says, they just want to justify that they hate sakura because she love sasuke and not the main character.

anyway before starting a war.. respect i really enjoyed it.

 

[Chatte]

i have to say that my fully respect to your Thread, i am not even a sakura-tard but i believe she does not deserved to be hate for nothing, lets get real she is not what people says, they just want to justify that they hate sakura because she love sasuke and not the main character.

anyway before starting a war.. respect i really enjoyed it.

Thank you very much for your kind words and for taking time to read the thread!

Well, that's my belief. I mean, I like Sakura, I won't lie I don't, she's one of my faves along with Tsunade, but I will never understand the hate against her.
It's funny that this hate everyone has for her made me like her even much. xd

And I'm not even afraid to say it, even if I'll get flamed - not that it would be the first time, lol.

 

[Ngylle]

Thank you very much for your kind words and for taking time to read the thread!

Well, that's my belief. I mean, I like Sakura, I won't lie I don't, she's one of my faves along with Tsunade, but I will never understand the hate against her.
It's funny that this hate everyone has for her made me like her even much. xd

And I'm not even afraid to say it, even if I'll get flamed - not that it would be the first time, lol.

if you try to make a connection, like when or why she got all this hate it always related to the main character..

i am thanxfull because after reading this thread, i wonder myself, why there is so much hate between the fanbase.

what really makes a naruto fan hate on sasuke but a sasuke fan not hate sasuke and viceversal or itachi/minato, hiruzen/ harishama.. it is because of the person who is writing.

What make them realy hate?, why they can not agree each other? etc..

 

[LBeezy]

Thank you for reading it, hun! :hug:
Well, when I said that about Sakura, you were the one I was thinking at because you popped the words in my mind and I just made the connections. I have to give you credit for that!

And, yes, I said it, and I'm going to say it once more: Naruto is a story for people with brains!
I don't want to offend anyone, but there are so many backstories in every action that covers so many aspects that leads me to the idea that most of the readers just read it superficially. Besides every main story, Kishi hides other small motifs, teachings. Only if you read it carefully, in depth you will understand all of it.
Naruto isn't a ordinary tale, it's a very complex one, and if you read it superficially, you'll never get to see the big picture in its depths. That's why, I think, everyone's reactions are most of the times so childish.
And when I say with brains, I say for people that passed the age of puberty, that started to think deeper and understand those hidden messages.
Children only tend to see the flashy battles, wow what a power Madara has, wow look how Naruto glows, he is the best, so on and so forth. They only see the display of power and that's it.
Why do you think in some countries they just cut some scenes? Just because sometimes they are too bloody, implies to many violence and that's what some will see, not the whole teaching behind that fight.

Regarding the Narutobase thingie, well, I have had my matches here for expressing my beliefs and, at first, I got angry. But, in time, as you said, I've learned that I just have to surround myself of people on the same wave.

I stand for what I believe! Even if I stand alone. And when I stand for something, I do it after I analyze. I don't just stand for foolishness.

Thank you for your time on reading this, sweetie! :hug:
It was a pleasure to talk to you, once again.

Lol no problem. it was my pleasure to read!! :hug:

I gotta be honest, while I was reading your replies to other peoples posts I couldn't help but notice how nice of a person you are. Like even when some people might come on your thread with a little attitude, and they post some real negative comments. I see you, still calm and peaceful, replying to them without rudely arguing, but still stating how you feel, and your words are very very polite as well. I respect that Chatte. That's why I enjoy reading what you have to say.
Not to mention, you always seem to take the words right out of my head anyway. lmao!