Naruto Shippuden Episode 462 " Fabricated Past" Discussion

[123fire]

Not without using the Mazo, but rather not having it inside of them. Like I said, provide any manga/databook evidence that proves Hagoromo not having it inside of him when he was a Juubi Jin, please. It's a rhetorical request, though, I know there is none.



We don't know that for a fact. What we know, though, is that every single Juubi Jin we've seen so far had the bijuu sealed into the Mazo beforehand.




To be honest, I don't see how this is relevant. I'm well aware of the fact that we can go into pseudo sophistic discussion on what is what in a shonen manga and what the author meant here and there, and I don't feel like doing so.




Because the Mazo is the vessel for them, why does he need to mention it? In nutshell, yes, Juubi is the fusion of the bijuu. Just like the fusion of floor, eggs and milk can become a pancake. But in order for them to fuse into the Juubi, you need them to be sealed into the statue first, otherwise the whole sealing issue would've been pointless, much like you need to bake the fused mass of the ingredients I mentioned in order for them become a pancake. I hope you get the analogy now, it's not that complicated and to be honest, I think you're arguing just for the purpose of arguing right now.




Naruto has the chakra of all the bijuu inside of him right now. Why doesn't he become a Juubi Jin? Exactly how do you estimate the amount of chakra needed for that? Why did both Obito, and especially Madara (considering that the Juubi has just been dismembered again, and the beasts obviously don't need, as you called it, 'rejuvenation'), have to re-seal all the tailed beasts back into the statue when they intended to become Juubi Jins? Obito had a very small portion of Hachibi's chakra, and even a smaller one of Kyuubi's. On top of that, why didn't Obito just seal all the bijuu inside of him as Akatsuki collected them? Why wait and bother with the Mazo?

The answer is the following: Yes, the Mazo is a crucial part of the Juubi. You can deny it all you want, I don't really care, because my initial intention of entering these debates was to possibly reconsider something about the manga I've known so far given that I'd receive some valid arguments/manga evidence, but, as expected, I've received nothing but a waste of time.



I don't think it can, for I've just pointed out a dozen of holes in your explanation. Sorry, but I don't accept it.



Just like Naruto contains portions of all the Bijuu now, so he has all the necessary ingredients... oops?




And we should think that there is a borderline amount of the chakra you need to gather in order to become a Juubi Jin rather than just sealing it all into the Mazo which turns into Juubi after that, much like we've seen in the manga a few times, because... why, exactly?

We just proved you wrong providing scans what are you babbling about? Just stop and deal with it

 

[malieduard]

How did Kaguya know of Ashura and Indra if they were born after she was sealed?
Also, dunno if you paid attention, but along with Kinshiki and Momoshiki there was a 3rd shadow...maybe a new villain in Boruto:The New Generations?

 

[Troyg39]

Oh i have to say that you're wrong! He broke up the juubi inside him means the nine tailed beast inside him that he already had. Oh god these are just narration the anime showed us eevrything hagoromo meant . This doesn't mean he created them after knwoing about Ashura its just he scattreed them

Dude he literally broke the story down in order. The reason he split the 9 bijuu was because he was inspired by seeing Ashura gain power through cooperation, so he broke up the Juubi and gave them names. It didn't happen until well after Ashura was born, the anime barely waited until after the fight. I showed you the scans, you've been proven wrong. Now go apply your butt cream and stfu. The anime's version is clearly not the same story as the manga. Nothing wrong with that, but yall need to chill trying to tie it in with the manga and just except SP is doing their own thing here

 

[123fire]

Dude he literally broke the story down in order. The reason he split the 9 bijuu was because he was inspired by seeing Ashura gain power through cooperation, so he broke up the Juubi and gave them names. It didn't happen until well after Ashura was born, the anime barely waited until after the fight. I showed you the scans, you've been proven wrong. Now go apply your butt cream and stfu. The anime's version is clearly not the same story as the manga. Nothing wrong with that, but yall need to chill trying to tie it in with the manga and just except SP is doing their own thing here

I agree with you that he SPLITTED them not create them , this episode just showed us him taking the bijuus into his body becoming the jinchuuriki , now what does splitting them have to do with today's episode he didn't do any splitting

 

[123fire]

How did Kaguya know of Ashura and Indra if they were born after she was sealed?
Also, dunno if you paid attention, but along with Kinshiki and Momoshiki there was a 3rd shadow...maybe a new villain in Boruto:The New Generations?

You do know that BZ is her will??? Her consiosness

 

[Troyg39]

I agree with you that he SPLITTED them not create them

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It's the same thing. Shows how much you actually know about the manga. When he split them and gave them names is when he created the other 9 bijuu. Before that happened there was only the 10 tailed beast. And as I already showed you, as confirmed by Hago himself, he didn't split them until after being inspired by Ashura.

this episode just showed us him taking the bijuus into his body becoming the jinchuuriki , now what does splitting them have to do with today's episode he didn't do any splitting

@bold: You just said it yourself. There was no splitting. In the manga, he split them, well after his sons were born and after his fight with the juubi as told by Hago himself. In the filler, there was no splitting involved because he never actually sealed the juubi like he did in the manga.

You become the juubi's jin by absorbing the juubi, which has it's own form and is a separate beast from the other 9. That's what Oliver has been trying to tell you guys. You can't be the juubi jin unless you seal the actual juubi. Why do you think in the manga Madara and Obito waited until the actual 10 tails manifested if all they had to do was put the beasts they already had inside of them?

SP is telling their own version of the Naruto story.

 

[Angelic.]

Sounds like a cluster****

 

[11TailedBox]

4/5. It was a nice episode, had more canon than I originally thought. The animation was decent.

Next week looks amazing.

 

[123fire]

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It's the same thing. Shows how much you actually know about the manga. When he split them and gave them names is when he created the other 9 bijuu. Before that happened there was only the 10 tailed beast. And as I already showed you, as confirmed by Hago himself, he didn't split them until after being inspired by Ashura.



@bold: You just said it yourself. There was no splitting. In the manga, he split them, well after his sons were born and after his fight with the juubi as told by Hago himself. In the filler, there was no splitting involved because he never actually sealed the juubi like he did in the manga.

You become the juubi's jin by absorbing the juubi, which has it's own form and is a separate beast from the other 9. That's what Oliver has been trying to tell you guys. You can't be the juubi jin unless you seal the actual juubi. Why do you think in the manga Madara and Obito waited until the actual 10 tails manifested if all they had to do was put the beasts they already had inside of them?

SP is telling their own version of the Naruto story.

It was never shown in the manga how Hagoromo sealed the juubi inside him , in today's episode they didn't even show us the splitting you're talking about it was off-panel just like in the manga off-panel . Whats the problem? But it WAS TOLD IN THE ANIME TOO!

 

[123fire]

4/5. It was a nice episode, had more canon than I originally thought. The animation was decent.

Next week looks amazing.

At least a member that understands the manga and anime

 

[Marin]

Not without using the Mazo, but rather not having it inside of them. Like I said, provide any manga/databook evidence that proves Hagoromo not having it inside of him when he was a Juubi Jin, please. It's a rhetorical request, though, I know there is none.



We don't know that for a fact. What we know, though, is that every single Juubi Jin we've seen so far had the bijuu sealed into the Mazo beforehand.




To be honest, I don't see how this is relevant. I'm well aware of the fact that we can go into pseudo sophistic discussion on what is what in a shonen manga and what the author meant here and there, and I don't feel like doing so.




Because the Mazo is the vessel for them, why does he need to mention it? In nutshell, yes, Juubi is the fusion of the bijuu. Just like the fusion of floor, eggs and milk can become a pancake. But in order for them to fuse into the Juubi, you need them to be sealed into the statue first, otherwise the whole sealing issue would've been pointless, much like you need to bake the fused mass of the ingredients I mentioned in order for them become a pancake. I hope you get the analogy now, it's not that complicated and to be honest, I think you're arguing just for the purpose of arguing right now.




Naruto has the chakra of all the bijuu inside of him right now. Why doesn't he become a Juubi Jin? Exactly how do you estimate the amount of chakra needed for that? Why did both Obito, and especially Madara (considering that the Juubi has just been dismembered again, and the beasts obviously don't need, as you called it, 'rejuvenation'), have to re-seal all the tailed beasts back into the statue when they intended to become Juubi Jins? Obito had a very small portion of Hachibi's chakra, and even a smaller one of Kyuubi's. On top of that, why didn't Obito just seal all the bijuu inside of him as Akatsuki collected them? Why wait and bother with the Mazo?

The answer is the following: Yes, the Mazo is a crucial part of the Juubi. You can deny it all you want, I don't really care, because my initial intention of entering these debates was to possibly reconsider something about the manga I've known so far given that I'd receive some valid arguments/manga evidence, but, as expected, I've received nothing but a waste of time.



I don't think it can, for I've just pointed out a dozen of holes in your explanation. Sorry, but I don't accept it.



Just like Naruto contains portions of all the Bijuu now, so he has all the necessary ingredients... oops?




And we should think that there is a borderline amount of the chakra you need to gather in order to become a Juubi Jin rather than just sealing it all into the Mazo which turns into Juubi after that, much like we've seen in the manga a few times, because... why, exactly?

Not to confuse things but what I think dude is trying to say is that the juubi is literally it's own separate beast. Putting all 9 broken parts inside of you is not the same thing as sealing the already combined beast. That's why both Madara and Obito had to wait until the juubi was revived aka combined into one before they could seal it even though they already had parts of all bijuu.

If it were that simple Obito would've just put each beast inside of him as he obtained them instead of putting it in the gedo first. I believe the point of the gedo was to first combine the chakra, which isn't as simple as just sticking them all together.

I know dude asked you something like "has anyone been a juubi without sealing the gedo", but the real question is, has anyone ever been a juubi without sealing at least a weaker version of the actual 10 tails beast...which the answer to that is no.

After going back to re-read and re-watch the whole thing I remembered certain things I had forgot.

I concede.

 

[Markovko]

9 bijuu do not equal the Juubi. Otherwise Naruto were a Juubi Jin. Kindly read the whole discussion before repeating the arguments that's already been countered.

Then kindly explain, what exactly is ten tails, Gedo statue, Shinju and Kaguya? First we knew, that all 9 tailed beasts make Juubi. Then to make Juubi, someone, who had Rinnegan, had to summon Gedo statue which was sealed inside "moon" via Hagoromo's and Hamura's chibaku tensei. Then we found out that 10-tails itself is form of Kaguya together with Shinju (God tree).
So basically Ten Tails jinchuriki = someone who seals Juubi inside of himself. So even before this new episode, it was f'd up unexplained. If they sealed Gedo statue inside "moon", where Rinnegan can summon it, then what exactly did Hagormo seal inside him?

 

[Troyg39]

It was never shown in the manga how Hagoromo sealed the juubi inside him , in today's episode they didn't even show us the splitting you're talking about it was off-panel just like in the manga off-panel . Whats the problem? But it WAS TOLD IN THE ANIME TOO!

Dude, they told us in the manga when the splitting took place. They even told us why the splitting took place. If SP comes back and shows Ashura already grown and has Hago saying he split the beasts because of Ashura inspiring him then the anime is following the manga version. If not then SP is clearly doing their own thing which is OK. It's not hard to comprehend

Then kindly explain, what exactly is ten tails, Gedo statue, Shinju and Kaguya? First we knew, that all 9 tailed beasts make Juubi. Then to make Juubi, someone, who had Rinnegan, had to summon Gedo statue which was sealed inside "moon" via Hagoromo's and Hamura's chibaku tensei. Then we found out that 10-tails itself is form of Kaguya together with Shinju (God tree).
So basically Ten Tails jinchuriki = someone who seals Juubi inside of himself. So even before this new episode, it was f'd up unexplained. If they sealed Gedo statue inside "moon", where Rinnegan can summon it, then what exactly did Hagormo seal inside him?

It's was explained. Hago sealed the entire thing at first, then split it later after his sons were mature and being inspired by the way Ashura lived. Hago sealed the entire juubi, gedo and all. Then when he decided to make the 9 beasts from the juubi, he put the shell on the moon.

The juubi=the actual beast known as the 10 tails=9beasts chakra+10tails body

 

[Animelyfe]

disappointed that hamura was not given shown any abilities, they made him look soo weak, i was hoping to see him show some awesome ass kicking power ups being on par with hagoromo but man he looked like hagoromos sidekick, and to revive kaguya i thought that hamuras bloodline was needed to?

 

[YellowFang]

Can't believe how wrong it all is...

One time we're witnessing Kaguya shredding PS to pieces and the other time, the legendary Hago using PS like WTF???
And other than, Juubi spamming TBBs... What exactly happened on the battlefield? If Kaguya can do what we've seen her doing, how a Rinnegan user and a Byakugan user held their own against the mighty Kaguya???

I just got reminded why I avoid fillers... I just wanna burn something now!!

 

[Marin]

Can't believe how wrong it all is...

One time we're witnessing Kaguya shredding PS to pieces and the other time, the legendary Hago using PS like WTF???
And other than, Juubi spamming TBBs... What exactly happened on the battlefield? If Kaguya can do what we've seen her doing, how a Rinnegan user and a Byakugan user held their own against the mighty Kaguya???

I just got reminded why I avoid fillers... I just wanna burn something now!!

Haha, c'mon man, we didn't even see the whole fight. XD

 

[Kushina san]

What the **** has smoked studio Pierrot?

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

This was a good episode, good to know they even brought up Momoshiki and Kinishiki. I wonder whos the third villain, maybe they will show it in boruto manga. I give a nice 4/5, wish we could see more fight between Hagoromo and Hamura vs Kaguya.

 

[Michael92]

Am I the only one enjoying the discussion on here going back and forth, from a neutral perspective? xd

I'm not going to take any sides though but there's this one intriguing bit that I'd like to discuss, and that is the God Tree and Kaguya turning into the Jubi (manga fact, right? That is why Hagoromo apparently didn't know that they were fighting their mother). While this week's episode showed a different version of that, and I'm okay with that (after all I wrote my own story about the Sage of Six Paths' life), but still the following comes to the top of my mind. I'll use the following quote to demonstrate:

It's was explained. Hago sealed the entire thing at first, then split it later after his sons were mature and being inspired by the way Ashura lived. Hago sealed the entire juubi, gedo and all. Then when he decided to make the 9 beasts from the juubi, he put the shell on the moon.

Okay so if Hagoromo actually sealed the entire Jubi inside of himself, what exactly was it that was caught in the Chibaku Tensei which thus created the moon? If he only needed to seal the Jubi inside of himself, I fail to see how the whole deal with the moon needs to happen, unless the Jubi was actually trappen inside the moon, and then Hagoromo "extracted" the Jubi itself from the moon and sealed it inside of himself, leaving Kaguya and the Divine Tree still within the moon. Then again, in order for that to happen, Hagoromo either had to realize that his mother was part of the Jubi as well, or Kaguya was so well fused with the Tree that he didn't notice.

Or maybe he actually did something like Minato did with the Nine-Tails where he just sealed up the husk of the Jubi (The Gedo Mazo) inside the moon and extracted the Jubi's chakra alone and thus enabling him to become the Jubi-Jin without the actual husk, sort of like how Minato and Naruto were able to become the Jins of each their part of Kurama?

So many questions!:hyper:

 

[Angelic.]

Besides kaguya herself That was bad lol
what did hago seal inside himself the juubi shriveled up and let ppl go who were supposed to become zetsu -_- kaguya didn't even transform.