Naruto is running out of counter-arguments

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

What do you expect from the guy who idolize his parents murderer ?

 

[Nagi]

I'm not assuming anything, the nations have already rallied behind Naruto and shown sign of change(change of ideals). You're conveniently de-emphasizing that and claiming that everything will revert back since the threat is gone.

In real life, cooperation has always won over might, and no one is saying that there will be no problems, but at least Naruto's way gets everyone involved with those problems, instead of shouldering the entire thing alone-Sasuke.

Cooperation has always won over might in real life. But in Naruto, Naruto is the core of that cooperation. Removing Naruto from the picture, the nations are doom. Which is why a lot of people can't agree with him. Naruto can lead people to peace, but can't show them how to hold on to it without him.

I really hear you. I really do. Naruto need to dial down on his dream. He should stick to being the best shinobi, not hokage. By far, he is the best shinobi. Being Hokage is just not for him. He is just a white knight.

 

[Nagi]

What do you expect from the guy who idolize his parents murderer ?

lol Right! No matter how you look at it, I can't follow a leader who idolize his parents murderer! It just too inhuman and wrong.

 

[V h o]

Cooperation has always won over might in real life. But in Naruto, Naruto is the core of that cooperation. Removing Naruto from the picture, the nations are doom. Which is why a lot of people can't agree with him. Naruto can lead people to peace, but can't show them how to hold on to it without him.

I really hear you. I really do. Naruto need to dial down on his dream. He should stick to being the best shinobi, not hokage. By far, he is the best shinobi. Being Hokage is just not for him. He is just a white knight.

It's like we aren't even reading the same manga. Has Naruto's ideals not rubbed off on the SA? How is it that you figure his death will unravel all what has happened?

 

[KingHashirama]

There's more proof for him not having an answer. Naruto's shown that when he's frustrated he actually screams at the person, I don't ever remember him staying quiet.

Then you should check his talk with obito.

 

[Nagi]

It's like we aren't even reading the same manga. Has Naruto's ideals not rubbed off on the SA? How is it that you figure his death will unravel all what has happened?

It have rubbed off on the SA. But that SA really can't operate on a large scale without Naruto as shown in this NV. Naruto give them all his power. Take naruto out of the picture, they all will drop to their knee just last week's episode. So do you see what im saying? Naruto can lead the SA to peace and hold on to peace as long he exist. But once he is gone, the SA can't hold on to peace for long without him. That is like telling the Z fighters to beat kid buu without Goku.

To top it off, There wasn't a war when the 1st hokage was alive right? If so, that prove my point even more.

 

[Trea]

No everyone does not follow the same ideals and people do carry the torch just like Hashi's will of fire has been passed down to future generations. People are not following Naruto because they fear him or because he's the strongest. They admire his will of fire and his ninja way. He doesn't give up, he listens to other peoples opinions and gripes and when he doesn't know something he doesn't lie about it, he says so and looks to those he trusts to help him figure it out. Even Shikamaru, who I think you'll agree is intelligent, thinks Naruto is worth paying attention to. Hashi's final words to Madara were about not having to finish all yourself because if you raise the next generation correctly they will finish it for you.

You don't know whether or not he has an answer just because he's choosing not to debate it with Sasuke. He might just want Sasuke to spill his whole plan so he knows how to counter his arguments when they do talk. Naruto has to get Sasuke in the mood to listen first. Also Sasuke is not taking the transmigrations into account. If he kills Naruto without this being resolved, there will only be a temporary peace because Ashura will transmigrate into someone else. Although the sage would like Naruto to end this he will continue to keep an eye on the transmigrants if he does not. Whose to say SO6P will not help the next Ashura to be even more powerful the next time so he can take down Sasuke. The sage already feels as though giving the power to Sasuke was a mistake.

You have to have someone who is willing to listen in order to have a debate. Sasuke is not willing to listen at the moment. As for the alliance it has more chances of staying together than breaking apart. Both Ay and Onoki who have committed the most wrongs out of the 5 Kages have admitted they have made mistakes. Onoki especially seems pretty proud of the alliance and is happy to be of use to the younger generation.

Many of the problems of the past had to do with Danzo, Hanzo, Oro, Kabuto, Madara, Obito and Black Zetsu pulling the strings in the background. All of them except Oro and Kabuto are gone now. Kabuto is looking forward to going home now because he remembers where that is and who he is. Oro is the only one left who can cause any turmoil. Things should be fairly calm once IT is released. Atleast until everyone gets wind of Sasuke's plan.

 

[Nagi]

No everyone does not follow the same ideals and people do carry the torch just like Hashi's will of fire has been passed down to future generations. People are not following Naruto because they fear him or because he's the strongest. They admire his will of fire and his ninja way. He doesn't give up, he listens to other peoples opinions and gripes and when he doesn't know something he doesn't lie about it, he says so and looks to those he trusts to help him figure it out. Even Shikamaru, who I think you'll agree is intelligent, thinks Naruto is worth paying attention to. Hashi's final words to Madara were about not having to finish all yourself because if you raise the next generation correctly they will finish it for you.

You don't know whether or not he has an answer just because he's choosing not to debate it with Sasuke. He might just want Sasuke to spill his whole plan so he knows how to counter his arguments when they do talk. Naruto has to get Sasuke in the mood to listen first. Also Sasuke is not taking the transmigrations into account. If he kills Naruto without this being resolved, there will only be a temporary peace because Ashura will transmigrate into someone else. Although the sage would like Naruto to end this he will continue to keep an eye on the transmigrants if he does not. Whose to say SO6P will not help the next Ashura to be even more powerful the next time so he can take down Sasuke. The sage already feels as though giving the power to Sasuke was a mistake.

You have to have someone who is willing to listen in order to have a debate. Sasuke is not willing to listen at the moment. As for the alliance it has more chances of staying together than breaking apart. Both Ay and Onoki who have committed the most wrongs out of the 5 Kages have admitted they have made mistakes. Onoki especially seems pretty proud of the alliance and is happy to be of use to the younger generation.

Many of the problems of the past had to do with Danzo, Hanzo, Oro, Kabuto, Madara, Obito and Black Zetsu pulling the strings in the background. All of them except Oro and Kabuto are gone now. Kabuto is looking forward to going home now because he remembers where that is and who he is. Oro is the only one left who can cause any turmoil. Things should be fairly calm once IT is released. Atleast until everyone gets wind of Sasuke's plan.

lol Hanzo. I see you not listing any of Hokage on the list... 3 Great ninja wars and not a single Uchiha was part of it cause.. What problem Orc had caused in the past? He attacked that hidden leaf village because it a false ass village who think they are the only one that allow to attack other villages.

 

[Nagi]

Hanzo was holding it down trying to bring peace with the 5 nations. Didn't belong to any of the strongest clan, but yet was able to stand against the 5 nations. Gotta give him credit until he realize how pointless his dream is because war will always be wage.

 

[Sharingan King]

Even if Naruto's TNJ works and there is peace, 10000 yrs into the future he will be regarded as myth and people will forget his teachings. War will ensue and everything goes back to square one.

It is also unrealistic to assume that Naruto will be able to TNJ everyone in the Narutoverse.

Sasuke's plan ensures permanent peace because it involves immortality. He will always be there to ensure peace is maintained. If aliens were to attack earth all nations would come together to defend the planet. If there are aliens invading for all eternity, then humans would be united for all eternity.

Sasuke also doesn't plan all out war. He will be like batman; only showing up to administer justice and then quickly disappearing.

 

[Joe Black]

Sasuke's way is already debunked:

You must be registered for see links

 

[V h o]

It have rubbed off on the SA. But that SA really can't operate on a large scale without Naruto as shown in this NV. Naruto give them all his power. Take naruto out of the picture, they all will drop to their knee just last week's episode. So do you see what im saying? Naruto can lead the SA to peace and hold on to peace as long he exist. But once he is gone, the SA can't hold on to peace for long without him. That is like telling the Z fighters to beat kid buu without Goku.

To top it off, There wasn't a war when the 1st hokage was alive right? If so, that prove my point even more.

Are you literally saying the world is unable to protect itself without Naruto? That all the clans, villages, etc. together can not maintain order as a collective? You're basically stating that Naruto's cooperation method will die with him, and that it didn't effect or change the people/SA.

Were the clans/villages together back in Hashirama's time like they are now in the form of the SA? No, they weren't.

 

[Nagi]

Are you literally saying the world is unable to protect itself without Naruto? That all the clans, villages, etc. together can not maintain order as a collective? You're basically stating that Naruto's cooperation method will die with him, and that it didn't effect or change the people/SA.

Were the clans/villages together like they are now in the form of the SA? No, they weren't.

YUP! That is what im saying! Can not maintain order as a collective if somebody powerful come into play to be a villain. Naruto's cooperation method will most likely die with him unless another shinobi decided to be as foolish as him. It is very super rare, well legendary to find a person who will forgive anybody after having their family destroy.

umm most clan/villages was sort of together like they are now until some of of them got their hands on a tail beast.

 

[Kamui Sama]

Honestly Naruto has been focusing too much about the past and pulling Sasuke from darkness when he was talking. I'd like him to talk more about his potential plans after the fight because at this point I'm not impressed

 

[V h o]

YUP! That is what im saying! Can not maintain order as a collective if somebody powerful come into play to be a villain.

I don't even know how to approach this.... Explain to me how the world can not maintain order.

Naruto's cooperation method will most likely die with him unless another shinobi decided to be as foolish as him. It is very super rare, well legendary to find a person who will forgive anybody after having their family destroy.

Then you're basically disagreeing that ideals change over time, since you're saying Naruto's ideals will die alongside him and people will return to their old ways....

umm most clan/villages was sort of together like they are now until some of of them got their hands on a tail beast.

What clans/villages were allied together? Leaf and Sand? The akatsuki?

 

[LeSauce]

Then you should check his talk with obito.

You must be registered for see links

That doesn't really look like he stayed quiet, in fact he kept trying to tnj Obito throughout.

Doesn't matter about clan, was Gai a part of a "powerful clan"? Were the akatsuki members, baring Itachi? Talent, genetic mutation, drive, whatever can and could breed a superior ninja/person. It may not be in 10 years or even 500 years but there is a possibility that Sasuke's power can be outmatch or equaled by people.

Gai is the only one who even comes close to his level, and that's definitely not enough. I guess there is that possibility, but then we'd be making up new powers.

 

[Nagi]

I don't even know how to approach this.... Explain to me how the world can not maintain order.



Then you're basically disagreeing that ideals change over time, since you're saying Naruto's ideals will die alongside him and people will return to their old ways....


What clans/villages were allied together? Leaf and Sand? The akatsuki?

1. They can maintain order til a group of people as powerful as the akatsuki cause problems and since nobody not godly strong as naruto won't be able to stop them.

2. Naruto's ideals are forgive no matter what and protect your friends no matter what. That whole SA can agree with that "protect your friends no matter what" But I know at least 80 percents will not agree with that "forgive no matter what" part. That shit gonna die with Naruto for sure.

3. A lot of clan/villages adopted the system that the 1st hokage created. Everything was cool until somebody's greed got out of control. The point is if the 1st hokage was still alive, there wouldn't be any wars due to him finding peace by talking or force.

 

[Nagi]

Sasuke's way is already debunked:

You must be registered for see links

All that bashing on Sasuke but yet nobody preaching about how naruto's ideas are better than his or having a better chance of bringing peace. Only Volk being a better lawyer for Naruto than most of you folks.

 

[Joe Black]

All that bashing on Sasuke but yet nobody preaching about how naruto's ideas are better than his or having a better chance of bringing peace. Only Volk being a better lawyer for Naruto than most of you folks.

Maybe read that thread. It exactly explains why Naruto's ideals are better, without bashing Sasuke Lol

 

[V h o]

1. They can maintain order til a group of people as powerful as the akatsuki cause problems and since nobody not godly strong as naruto won't be able to stop them.

Are you implying that the akatsuki could beat the SA? Akatsuki prospered because of the division and distrust between the villages/clans.

2. Naruto's ideals are forgive no matter what and protect your friends no matter what. That whole SA can agree with that "protect your friends no matter what" But I know at least 80 percents will not agree with that "forgive no matter what" part. That shit gonna die with Naruto for sure.

Doesn't mean you're intolerant to crime....You can punish without becoming consumed by hatred or blinded into revenge.

3. A lot of clan/villages adopted the system that the 1st hokage created. Everything was cool until somebody's greed got out of control. The point is if the 1st hokage was still alive, there wouldn't be any wars due to him finding peace by talking or force.

The first hokage supposedly died in war. Secondly all these clans/villages from the past were divided, they may have came together as a village, but boundaries were still there dividing other villages, and still fueling the general problem of diversion and distrust.