Naruto has shown, far and away, the best chakra control in this manga.

xxSAGExx

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Naruto's chakra control is still inferior to that of Tsunade, Sakura, Neji and any elite Hyuga
But he does have a godly insane large chakra reserve thanks to Kurama

Well if you read my posts then you'll know Naruto in fact has better chakra control then those you mentioned. Kakashi in part 1 said it was harder for Naruto because of his large stamina plus having the fox makes it even harder and that's why Naruto would use more stamina than needed. After learning to walk on water training, Naruto was able to use the precise amount of chakra needed. More chakra=harder to control so the fact that Naruto is control Kurama's chakra puts his chakra control skills far above the people you mentioned.

Tsunade and Sakura's enhanced strength uses the tree walking training and water walking training as I explained in my other post, Tree-you focus your max chakra into your fist and water-precise chakra control. The rasengan uses both tree and water chakra control in it's first step as Jiraiya told Naruto and later on Kakashi called the rasengan an extremely advanced spatial recomposiotion, 1 of 2 chakra control Naruto needs for FRS, Naruto learned the 2nd one by learning wind, then he had to combine them which is something Kakashi and Minato couldn't do.

Learning to use KM was also chakra control, he had to learn to make chakra arms and learn to not smash boulders just from trying to hold it. Also if just the basic rasengan is extremely advance chakra control then what do you think all of Naruto's other rasengans are? much much more advanced.
 

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They both do well with the chakra they have. Sakura doesn't have Kurama inside her to utilize KCM, but being able to channel enough chakra to pulverize huge rocks and chunks of the earth while she was storing chakra inside her forehead (for three years might I add), with the little chakra she have (compared to Naruto)...let's just say impressive doesn't do her justice.

If she had the same amount of chakra as Naruto? Bye bye to the ground you're standing on. If she had Kurama insider her as well? It wouldn't even be funny.

Naruto did learn the rasengan, and probably many other abilities that may attest to his chakra control. Sakura however, never got the chance to learn such techniques. The only one who really even bothered to teach her anything is Tsunade; whose style revolves around taijutsu and medical jutsu.

This is something I'd have to wait for Kishi to clear up, until then, I'm going with Sakura.
 
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xxSAGExx

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Okay then. You are coming at me with the same thing, tree climbing and walking on water << Sakura i proved that before so you can go back if you want didn't understand the first time, trying to prove rasengans difficulty by referencing tree climbing and walking on water is meaningless. I have nothing else to say. I'm not really interested in reading your book.


All that matters to me is Sakura is at the pinacle of chakra control and that's that, noone can take that from her because it's written in black and white.

Naruto cannot be better than her. Maybe equal if it's confirmed by the manga and it never will most likely.


So keep speculating. I already have my proof stated plain as day.


P.S:
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That should shut you up about tree climbing and having learnt to walk on water perfecting his chakra control. Jiraya said this after all of that so

Again, your pic of Naruto failing to walk on water is out of context, it was because Oro's seal that blocked Kurama's chakra that stopped him from walking on the water, I already showed where Ebisu said learning to walk on the water is an advance chakra control training that allows Naruto to use set amount of chakra which Jiraiya even referred to as precise chakra control which proves me right about it teaching him how to use his chakra. You're using scans that shows Naruto messing up due to a seal as Jiraiya said so himself and after releasing that seal Naruto was about to walk on water .

You saying Sakura>Tree/Water control without knowing that she uses those principals for her chakra control and if she didn't use them then she wouldn't be as good as she is since they're both play a part in her enhance strength which was praised by Kakashi for it's precise chakra control. Shizune said it was extremely precise chakra control . Kakashi even said Naruto had trouble with his chakra control because he had a larger stamina plus Kurama so High stamina=harder chakra control and that's part 1 Naruto, Naruto has much more chakra in part 2 and can control it even better than in part one, he shows this by being able to make clones much faster



Highly false Tsunade IS the creator of the medical system = Manga fact. Provide evidence to refute, your opinion and evaluation have no point or value to counter a valid Manga statement. She countered Lady chiyo like Chiyo was a noob... Tsunade >>> Lady chiyo when it comes to medical ninjutsu.. hell Sakura >>> LAdy Chiyo..

Kurama knows of the standards of yin seal?? Hashirama knows of the requirement and process of yin seal?? Madara knows of the process of yin seal?? Please provide evidence.

Your assumption and evaluation are futile, when Sakura was already levels ahead of the lil boys from team 7 in the starting of part 1.

You praise Naruto for giving out chakra to others.. while Sakura did the samething THROUGH Katsuyu, something Naruto hasn't done. Not only that she was able to give chakra to Darui for his attack.

Chakra control is defined by how precisely you can use your chakra. If you are saying Naruto can control is on a microscopic cellular level... than provide evidence.

Oh not only that the feat Naruto accomplished can only be done with Kurama's chakra and can't do it with his own. So much for him having chakra control.

PS: Sakura is a natural genius in chakra control... while Naruto and Sasuke had to train to get it good.

I took her creating the medical system as in creating medical jutsus which we know she didn't, she did create the system that governs medical ninjutsu from being the best at it from those alive. My point was that Tsunade didn't create medical ninjutsu, just the system, just like how Hashirama and Madara created the system of how a village works.

Sakura's chakra control was mostly described as extremely precise chakra control while Naruto was off learning extremely advance chakra control in the form of the rasengan, a spatial recomposition and . It took 2 advance chakra control types just to make the spatial recomposition, climbing trees which Kakashi said is hard for even skill ninjas and walking on water which is more advanced form of chakra training which the rasengan makes use of both. Tsunade even said only Jiraiya and Minato could use the rasengan which is all chakra control.

The yin seal is just that, a sealing jutsu same as CM, 8 triagram, ect... We seen Sasuke's CM feed of his chakra and Naruto's naturally mix Kurama's chakra to his so do you know if the seal doesn't do someof the work for them? Yes Shizune said she couldn't do it but could she do enhanced strength which was also said to be precise chakra control like the yin seal? No, not everyone can do a jutsu just like how not everyone can learn SM. Tsunade uses the seal to do something Hashirama can do normally and he does have great chakra control to do that because it was never said he had a ability he was born with to do that. That's like comparing Minato creating the Rasengan from observing a tbb and naruto being taught how to make it from Jiraiya, Minato's feat is better.

I know Sakura was a natural genius at it, my point is that since it was her strongest point that she didn't have to work on it as much as she had to on her other aspects such as learning medical jutsus, poison, super strength, how to handle herself in a fight, ect while all of Naruto's training have a form of chakra control training in it. He was already able to use precise chakra that he needed after learning to walk on water as Ebisu explains what the purpose of walking on water provides. Kakashi also said Naruto was only worst at it because he had a larger stamina plus having Kurama. Large chakra=harder to control chakra as Kakashi told Naruto (I know it said stamina but you turn that stamina into chakra is why I said chakra here).

Also the yin seal isn't microscopic cellular level control, Tsunade uses her chakra to stimulate production of enzymes that accelerates her cell duplications. Stimulate means to cause to be alert and energetic (Ex: coffee stimulate you); cause to occur rapidly, stir feelings in. So her chakra only makes her cells reproduce faster which Shizune stated shortens her life. The only thing precise chakra control was referring to was focusing chakra at a single point which is what they do for their enhanced strength but they use the seal to keep the chakra in that spot.

Edit: And Naruto was unconscious right by Tsunade when she said that and Kurama isn't knocked out when Naruto is, it was only getting dark for him when Naruto was dying which Tsunade healed so actually he does know how the seal works
 
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xxSAGExx

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They both do well with the chakra they have. Sakura doesn't have Kurama inside her to utilize KCM, but being able to channel enough chakra to pulverize huge rocks and chunks of the earth while she was storing chakra inside her forehead (for three years might I add), with the little chakra she have (compared to Naruto)...let's just say impressive doesn't do her justice.

If she had the same amount of chakra as Naruto? Bye bye to the ground you're standing on. If she had Kurama insider her as well? It wouldn't even be funny.

Naruto did learn the rasengan, and probably many other abilities that may attest to his chakra control. Sakura however, never got the chance to learn such techniques. The only one who really even bothered to teach her anything is Tsunade; whose style revolves around taijutsu and medical jutsu.

This is something I'd have to wait for Kishi to clear up, until then, I'm going with Sakura.

You do know it's harder to control your chakra when you have large stamina/chakra right? That's what Kakashi told Naruto in part 1, he then goes on to think how worst it is cause he has the 9 tails. Sakura had the least amount of chakra than Sasuke and Naruto and was a book worm so not hard to see that she was able to have better chakra control
 

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You do know it's harder to control your chakra when you have large stamina/chakra right? That's what Kakashi told Naruto in part 1, he then goes on to think how worst it is cause he has the 9 tails. Sakura had the least amount of chakra than Sasuke and Naruto and was a book worm so not hard to see that she was able to have better chakra control

@Bold, this is the only relevant point in your argument. And I'm going to need proof.


I see what you're talking about, he says stamina, not chakra. Furthermore, we don't know how much of a factor it is. On a difficulty scale from 1-10, having 10x the stamina could make it only a 2.5 when it would normally be a two. It's anyone's guess. As you pointed out, Naruto was able to "Jesus the water" as soon Kurama wasn't a hindrance.

In that case, Tsunade and Sakura in my opinion. The former has lots of stamina. Shizune has less stamina than Tsunade, is a med-nin, yet wasn't good enough at chakra control to activate the Yin Seal. Med-nins are skilled in chakra control, this shows how difficult the Yin Seal is. Shizune isn't your average med-nin (who are specially good at chakra control, I can't emphasize this enough, others really need to get this), yet STILL couldn't do the Yin Seal, it really is a whole new level of chakra control. Sakura could do it... just because Naruto is adept at chakra control, doesn't automatically mean he's better at it with those who have lower stamina. Simply because, we don't know how much of a factor stamina plays. We haven't, and most likely won't ever see what Sakura/Tsunade can do with Kurama or a rasengan. Kishi emphasizes their chakra control. Is Naruto better than what he originally was? Without a doubt, much better. I'd wait to hear it from Kishi though, I'm almost sure he thinks differently.


Saving chakra for three years, these two have been controlling chakra in their sleep...
 
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Joshutsu

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Again, your pic of Naruto failing to walk on water is out of context, it was because Oro's seal that blocked Kurama's chakra that stopped him from walking on the water, I already showed where Ebisu said learning to walk on the water is an advance chakra control training that allows Naruto to use set amount of chakra which Jiraiya even referred to as precise chakra control which proves me right about it teaching him how to use his chakra. You're using scans that shows Naruto messing up due to a seal as Jiraiya said so himself and after releasing that seal Naruto was about to walk on water .

You saying Sakura>Tree/Water control without knowing that she uses those principals for her chakra control and if she didn't use them then she wouldn't be as good as she is since they're both play a part in her enhance strength which was praised by Kakashi for it's precise chakra control. Shizune said it was extremely precise chakra control . Kakashi even said Naruto had trouble with his chakra control because he had a larger stamina plus Kurama so High stamina=harder chakra control and that's part 1 Naruto, Naruto has much more chakra in part 2 and can control it even better than in part one, he shows this by being able to make clones much faster

I took nothing out of context. You said the tree climbing and walking on water perfected his chakra control. That page says you are wrong. That's all.

The fact Naruto could walk on water and climb the tree with this handicap(his seal). Shows how little they require any measure of REAL chakra control. I rest my case.

Or have you forgotten what your original arguement.

Jiraya's main purpose for unlocking it was so Naruto could use more chakra. He even told Naruto in that very chapters using large chakra will make up for the chakra control lacking part.



Here he tells Naruto that if they can get him to be able to utilise his huge chakra via kyubi along with his stamina. He can make up for the control part by focusing on power more.


@ your second paragraph.

Sakura techniques are indeed >> those because they are PRINCIPLES a.k.a BASICS.

Shizune was talking specifically about Sakura's technique. Nothing more nothing less, same as kakashi with her CES.

You saying this just reinforces my arguement on why tree climbing and water walking is BASIC. This is what i've been trying to drill into your brain! she's surpassed that basic stuff ages ago.


I feel sorta relieved now so i guess you can think what you want now lol ill see yo uaround in some other thread, some other time. I'm done here

Sakura is at the pinnacle. If you want Naruto to be there to be my guest. She's already there i'm happy. :O
 
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xxSAGExx

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@Bold, this is the only relevant point in your argument. And I'm going to need proof.


I see what you're talking about, he says stamina, not chakra. Furthermore, we don't know how much of a factor it is. On a difficulty scale from 1-10, having 10x the stamina could make it only a 2.5 when it would normally be a two. It's anyone's guess. As you pointed out, Naruto was able to "Jesus the water" as soon Kurama wasn't a hindrance.

In that case, Tsunade and Sakura in my opinion. The former has lots of stamina. Shizune has less stamina than Tsunade, is a med-nin, yet wasn't good enough at chakra control to activate the Yin Seal. Med-nins are skilled in chakra control, this shows how difficult the Yin Seal is. Shizune isn't your average med-nin (who are specially good at chakra control, I can't emphasize this enough, others really need to get this), yet STILL couldn't do the Yin Seal, it really is a whole new level of chakra control. Sakura could do it... just because Naruto is adept at chakra control, doesn't automatically mean he's better at it with those who have lower stamina. Simply because, we don't know how much of a factor stamina plays. We haven't, and most likely won't ever see what Sakura/Tsunade can do with Kurama or a rasengan. Kishi emphasizes their chakra control. Is Naruto better than what he originally was? Without a doubt, much better. I'd wait to hear it from Kishi though, I'm almost sure he thinks differently.


Saving chakra for three years, these two have been controlling chakra in their sleep...

The point was that Naruto would used either too much or too little stamina to make chakra and Kakashi said it was due to Naruto having a larger stamina than Sakura and Sasuke as Ebisu explained here . It makes a big difference with not being about to use the precise amount because you might make a larger amount of chakra than you need then use an even smaller amount. This is with the chakra Naruto had as a genin so the difficulty should increase as well, by how much, we don't know. Kakashi did say when with Kurama that it becomes even more difficult so that can be used as evidence than the larger the stamina, the harder it is and he said it in a serious tone so it wasn't nothing.

I took nothing out of context. You said the tree climbing and walking on water perfected his chakra control. That page says you are wrong. That's all.

The fact Naruto could walk on water and climb the tree with this handicap(his seal). Shows how little they require any measure of REAL chakra control. I rest my case.

Or have you forgotten what your original arguement.

Jiraya's main purpose for unlocking it was so Naruto could use more chakra. He even told Naruto in that very chapters using large chakra will make up for the chakra control lacking part.



Here he tells Naruto that if they can get him to be able to utilise his huge chakra via kyubi along with his stamina. He can make up for the control part by focusing on power more.

@ your second paragraph.

Sakura techniques are indeed >> those because they are PRINCIPLES a.k.a BASICS.

Shizune was talking specifically about Sakura's technique. Nothing more nothing less, same as kakashi with her CES.

You saying this just reinforces my arguement on why tree climbing and water walking is BASIC. This is what i've been trying to drill into your brain! she's surpassed that basic stuff ages ago.

I feel sorta relieved now so i guess you can think what you want now lol ill see yo uaround in some other thread, some other time. I'm done here

Sakura is at the pinnacle. If you want Naruto to be there to be my guest. She's already there i'm happy. :O

Jiraiya released the seal because it was creating an imbalance in Naruto's chakra, he had 1 seal made to mix it with his and another stop that , Naruto was still able to walk on water as he started to with Ebisu but couldn't maintain it. Jiraiya noticed this the first time Naruto try it with him and asked him to do it again and that's when he saw the seal and .

Jiraiya wanted to teach Naruto the summoning jutsu which required more chakra than he had with his normal chakra and that's why he wanted Naruto to start working on learning to control Kurama's chakra, so he can perform larger jutsus. Naruto already learned to use set amount of chakra when he walked on the water.

He also wanted Naruto to learn to use Kurama's chakra instead of having it coming out when he had heighten emotions or was in danger plus cause he knew Minato made the seal mix with Naruto's to protect him. Naruto didn't even know the red chakra was the fox's.

That scan you provided is Jiraiya saying up until now his training was focused on producing (tree training) and releasing a set amount of chakra (water training) and now he should focus on power now, Naruto already learned the control aspect from the very thing Jiraiya said what Naruto's training were before. It said nothing about his lack of chakra control because Naruto's training gave him the control to use his chakra perfectly now (use what he needs).

How are they "Basics" when Kakashi said even skilled ninjas can have a hard time with the tree walking chakra control? and walking on water is much more difficult . Another thing, Kakashi said chakra control was harder for Naruto because he have more stamina than Sakura and Sasuke and even more difficult with Kurama's chakra . So you can say Sakura's chakra control is as good as it is due to low stamina, not saying she's not but it's easier for her.

So you're saying medical ninjas have perfect chakra control but why can't Shizune do CES? She was Tsunade's student a lot longer and only said she couldn't do the yin seal yet she can't do the CES? Kakashi called the CES precise chakra control, same as Shizune did with Sakura's Seal. How is she going to be at the pinnacle of chakra control when there are more than one type of chakra control and Sakura has shown precise chakra control mostly if at all while Naruto shown more aspects of chakra control that are all extremely advance chakra control.

If Medical ninjas need perfect chakra control, perfect defined as "Precisely accurate or exact; being complete of its kind and without defect or blemish.", and Sakura chakra control was said to be at the pinnacle, which is defined as "a lofty peak; the highest level or degree attainable". How can she attain a higher level of chakra control when medical ninjas are said to have perfect chakra control. You can't go higher than perfect or else it's not perfect so you're either saying Tsunade is wrong or saying Sakura have better chakra control than Tsunade who came and healed Shikamaru when Sakura couldn't.
 

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The point was that Naruto would used either too much or too little stamina to make chakra and Kakashi said it was due to Naruto having a larger stamina than Sakura and Sasuke as Ebisu explained here . It makes a big difference with not being about to use the precise amount because you might make a larger amount of chakra than you need then use an even smaller amount. This is with the chakra Naruto had as a genin so the difficulty should increase as well, by how much, we don't know. Kakashi did say when with Kurama that it becomes even more difficult so that can be used as evidence than the larger the stamina, the harder it is and he said it in a serious tone so it wasn't nothing.


You're completely missing the point and ignored key parts of my arguments. My point was that we don't know how much of a factor it is. Shizune was unable to do the Yin Seal despite having lower stamina than Tsunade. As soon as Jiraiya undid Orochimaru's seal, Narut could walk on water. Obviously the seal played a huge part, but the stamina? It's anyone's guess. As stated, Shizune, despite be a med-nin EXPERT, couldn't do the Yin Seal despite having lower stamina than Tsunade. This right here blows your argument out the water.

The Fox was a hindrance to Naruto. Check. Naruto's stamina made it harder. Check.

I already understand these points. There's no need to repeat them. This isn't evidence he's better than Sakura or Tsunade. If they were given Kurama as well, or bothered to learn the rasengan, for all we know, they could be doing a thousand times better than Naruto.

I'd rather just see what Kishi thinks. Until then, I'm going to believe Tsunade and Sakura is better.
 
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Using the Rasengan is a huge chakra control feat if I'm not mistaken.. And Naruto's use of the Rasengan is so advanced that it's far and away beyond its previous users.

Regardless, Naruto's done too much with his chakra to not be considered the best. He's saved so many lives and strengthened so many individuals to near perfection.

Seriously, the only argument against Naruto not being the best is this flimsy definition of Chakra Control.
 

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You're completely missing the point and ignored key parts of my arguments. My point was that we don't know how much of a factor it is. Shizune was unable to do the Yin Seal despite having lower stamina than Tsunade. As soon as Jiraiya undid Orochimaru's seal, Narut could walk on water. Obviously the seal played a huge part, but the stamina? It's anyone's guess. As stated, Shizune, despite be a med-nin EXPERT, couldn't do the Yin Seal despite having lower stamina than Tsunade. This right here blows your argument out the water.

The Fox was a hindrance to Naruto. Check. Naruto's stamina made it harder. Check.

I already understand these points. There's no need to repeat them. This isn't evidence he's better than Sakura or Tsunade. If they were given Kurama as well, or bothered to learn the rasengan, for all we know, they could be doing a thousand times better than Naruto.

I'd rather just see what Kishi thinks. Until then, I'm going to believe Tsunade and Sakura is better.

It had to have been a big enough factor to devote Naruto's training to learning to use the precise chakra needed for a jutsu. Shizune was also unable to do enhanced strength which Kakashi called précised chakra control ( ) and Shizune called the yin seal extremely precise chakra control ( ). Precise chakra control is just 1 form of chakra control, the base rasengan was said to be extremely advance spatial recomposition ( ), it's 1 of the 2 chakra control techniques that Kakashi mentioned that Naruto needed for FRS ( )

Yin seal and enhanced strength takes 1 form of chakra control which is precise chakra control. You can say Sakura has better precise chakra control but can't say overall better chakra control when Naruto shown more aspects of advanced chakra control.
Yin-yang chakra control from mini tbb and BM tbb, Extremely advanced spatial recompostion chakra control from rasengan and it's even more advance for Naruto's rasengan variations which are larger in size and need more chakra control, and a combination of spatial and physical composition for the FRS which even Tsunade can't heal and labeled a forbidden jutsu (said he shouldn't use it due to it high drawbacks but Naruto learned to throw it).
 

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Using the Rasengan is a huge chakra control feat if I'm not mistaken.. And Naruto's use of the Rasengan is so advanced that it's far and away beyond its previous users.

Regardless, Naruto's done too much with his chakra to not be considered the best. He's saved so many lives and strengthened so many individuals to near perfection.

Seriously, the only argument against Naruto not being the best is this flimsy definition of Chakra Control.

Agreed, Kakashi called base Rasengan extremely advanced spatial recomposition which is a chakra control technique. and . So what about Oodama rasengan which is larger so need more chakra control for it, same with Chou oodama rasengan, double rasengan, planet rasengan (2 rasengans around a oodama rasengan), the 6-7 rasengans Naruto used on the white zetsus at once, multi-Shadow clones+ oodama rasengans for Rasengan barrage. Wind Rasengan, Mini FRS, FRS, chou FRS that all use 2 advance chakra control which are physical and spatial recomposition.

Sakura was mostly praised on her precise chakra control and not another type while Naruto has shown 2 extremely advanced chakra control.
 

Disquiet

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It had to have been a big enough factor to devote Naruto's training to learning to use the precise chakra needed for a jutsu. Shizune was also unable to do enhanced strength which Kakashi called précised chakra control ( ) and Shizune called the yin seal extremely precise chakra control ( ). Precise chakra control is just 1 form of chakra control, the base rasengan was said to be extremely advance spatial recomposition ( ), it's 1 of the 2 chakra control techniques that Kakashi mentioned that Naruto needed for FRS ( )

Yin seal and enhanced strength takes 1 form of chakra control which is precise chakra control. You can say Sakura has better precise chakra control but can't say overall better chakra control when Naruto shown more aspects of advanced chakra control.
Yin-yang chakra control from mini tbb and BM tbb, Extremely advanced spatial recompostion chakra control from rasengan and it's even more advance for Naruto's rasengan variations which are larger in size and need more chakra control, and a combination of spatial and physical composition for the FRS which even Tsunade can't heal and labeled a forbidden jutsu (said he shouldn't use it due to it high drawbacks but Naruto learned to throw it).


@Bold, not a big enough factor for Shizune's incapability to learn Yin Seal. That point has long been proven moot.

@Underlined ...You're obviously not grasping the argument. You're only helping me. If you keep trying to disprove an experinced med-nin with lower stamina than Tsunade couldn't perform more precise chakra control, you not only display the sheer difficulty it takes to manage the technique, but also prove stamina isn't much of a factor.

@Blue, that's redundant. You really feel that Kishi is portraying Jiriaya, who could do the ransengan with one hand to be better at chakra control than Tsunade? If so, there's really no need to read further. The rasengan alone isn't proof Naruto is better at chakra control. Furthermore, and I must emphasize since you keep missing the point and thus keep repeating it to me, Sakura hasn't bothered to learn the rasengan.

You think Konohamaru, who can do the rasengan as well, is better at chakra control than Sakura and Tsunade? Seriously. Just because Naruto can now do it with one hand isn't going to convince me he's better at it than Sakura and Tsunade.

@Green, Yes I can. Konohamru have displayed this "advanced" chakra control" as well. It's laughable to think Kishi is portraying Konohamaru to have better chakra control than Sakura. Also, it's not advanced control in the sense that it surpassed Sakura's chakra control. Spatial recomposition happens when one starts channeling chakra. Recomposing simply means to reorganize, spatial recomposition means doing so within a confined space; this is usually within the body. In this scenario, advanced spatial recompostion is recomposing the chakra outside the body, while limiting the chakra quantity and manipulating the shape. Some of it is already learned since Naruto can do it when he manipulates chakra within the body. Advanced is not insinuating better chakra control, just an advanced form of chakra flow so to speak. That's what the rasengan is, a ball of flowing chakra. Granted, there's some chakra control involved.


As for that last part, all could easily be nowhere near the chakra control needed to activate the Yin Seal. You're just going off how it looks. Appearance can be deceiving. Like I said, I'd rather wait for Kishi.

And again: Tsunade and Sakura haven't bothered to learn such techniques.


Anyways I'm off. ^^

There's really no point in continuing if you're gonna tell me Konohamaru is better at chakra control than Tsunade and Sakura. It's OBVIOUS that Kishi is portraying the rasengan to be much lower in the chakra control department compared to what Sakura can do. Most likely nowhere near it. This is further backed by the fact of Kakashi's statement after seeing what Sakura can do, even after witnessing the rasengan from Naruto. This is Kishi's message to the readers. Yin Seal and such is on a whole other level. FURTHER backed by the fact it was said to the pinnacle of chakra control.
 
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xxSAGExx

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@Bold, not a big enough factor for Shizune's incapability to learn Yin Seal. That point has long been proven moot.

@Underlined ...You're obviously not grasping the argument. You're only helping me. If you keep trying to disprove an experinced med-nin with lower stamina than Tsunade couldn't perform more precise chakra control, you not only display the sheer difficulty it takes to manage the technique, but also prove stamina isn't much of a factor.

@Blue, that's redundant. You really feel that Kishi is portraying Jiriaya, who could do the ransengan with one hand to be better at chakra control than Tsunade? If so, there's really no need to read further. The rasengan alone isn't proof Naruto is better at chakra control. Furthermore, and I must emphasize since you keep missing the point and thus keep repeating it to me, Sakura hasn't bothered to learn the rasengan.

You think Konohamaru, who can do the rasengan as well, is better at chakra control than Sakura and Tsunade? Seriously. Just because Naruto can now do it with one hand isn't going to convince me he's better at it than Sakura and Tsunade.

@Green, Yes I can. Konohamru have displayed this "advanced" chakra control" as well. It's laughable to think Kishi is portraying Konohamaru to have better chakra control than Sakura. Also, it's not advanced control in the sense that it surpassed Sakura's chakra control. Spatial recomposition happens when one starts channeling chakra. Recomposing simply means to reorganize, spatial recomposition means doing so within a confined space; this is usually within the body. In this scenario, advanced spatial recompostion is recomposing the chakra outside the body, while limiting the chakra quantity and manipulating the shape. Some of it is already learned since Naruto can do it when he manipulates chakra within the body. Advanced is not insinuating better chakra control, just an advanced form of chakra flow so to speak. That's what the rasengan is, a ball of flowing chakra. Granted, there's some chakra control involved.


As for that last part, all could easily be nowhere near the chakra control needed to activate the Yin Seal. You're just going off how it looks. Appearance can be deceiving. Like I said, I'd rather wait for Kishi.

And again: Tsunade and Sakura haven't bothered to learn such techniques.


Anyways I'm off. ^^

There's really no point in continuing if you're gonna tell me Konohamaru is better at chakra control than Tsunade and Sakura. It's OBVIOUS that Kishi is portraying the rasengan to be much lower in the chakra control department compared to what Sakura can do. Most likely nowhere near it. This is further backed by the fact of Kakashi's statement after seeing what Sakura can do, even after witnessing the rasengan from Naruto. This is Kishi's message to the readers. Yin Seal and such is on a whole other level. FURTHER backed by the fact it was said to the pinnacle of chakra control.

I never even brough Konohamaru up, you did and his rasengan was far smaller then any other rasengan users. There are more than one type of chakra control and Naruto displayed more of them than Sakura. Shizune was not even shown when Naruto was passing chakra out but we got Kurama praising him of how skilled Naruto was, even surpassing both of his parents which he made sound like a big deal by how he said it. Naruto uses at least 3 chakra control techniques to give chakra, He uses the tree walking chakra control to build up the chakra amount, the water walking chakra control to release the set amount (precise amount) of chakra, and Physical recomposition chakra control to transform the chakra to meet the ninja's chakra. Like how Kakashi use Physical recomposition to resemble electricity, Naruto use it to resemble a person's chakra and he does this in seconds with large chakra amounts and with the slap of a hand

There are more than 1 type of chakra control so to say it's the pinnacle and not the type of chakra control doesn't seem accurate. Many people talk about how Tsunade said medical nins have perfect chakra control but how can Sakura be at the pinnacle of chakra control if she had prefect chakra control unless it's not really perfect but great chakra control. Perfect means "precisely accurate or exact; being complete of it's kind and without defect or blemish." Pinnacle means "a lofty peak; the highest level or degree attainable".

Medical nins probably need precisely accurate chakra control because Sakura's chakra control mainly revolve precisions. It can be the highest chakra control of a type of chakra control but not going to refer to other types they work in different ways.
 

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I never even brough Konohamaru up, you did and his rasengan was far smaller then any other rasengan users. There are more than one type of chakra control and Naruto displayed more of them than Sakura. Shizune was not even shown when Naruto was passing chakra out but we got Kurama praising him of how skilled Naruto was, even surpassing both of his parents which he made sound like a big deal by how he said it. Naruto uses at least 3 chakra control techniques to give chakra, He uses the tree walking chakra control to build up the chakra amount, the water walking chakra control to release the set amount (precise amount) of chakra, and Physical recomposition chakra control to transform the chakra to meet the ninja's chakra. Like how Kakashi use Physical recomposition to resemble electricity, Naruto use it to resemble a person's chakra and he does this in seconds with large chakra amounts and with the slap of a hand

There are more than 1 type of chakra control so to say it's the pinnacle and not the type of chakra control doesn't seem accurate. Many people talk about how Tsunade said medical nins have perfect chakra control but how can Sakura be at the pinnacle of chakra control if she had prefect chakra control unless it's not really perfect but great chakra control. Perfect means "precisely accurate or exact; being complete of it's kind and without defect or blemish." Pinnacle means "a lofty peak; the highest level or degree attainable".

Medical nins probably need precisely accurate chakra control because Sakura's chakra control mainly revolve precisions. It can be the highest chakra control of a type of chakra control but not going to refer to other types they work in different ways.

@Bold, Come on man, if you can't understand the significance of the Konohamaru mention, then this discussion isn't worth it. You called it advanced chakra controlling, it was to blow that agument out the water. Even if it's smaller, you're claiming he's capable of superior chakra controlling. So yes, I bought him up for a reason. Sorry, you can't wiggle through this one. You're either gonna have to tell me that Konohamaru is more skilled than Tsunade and Sakura at chakra control, or drop the rasengan argument. You also neglected my point about Jiraiya. He was able to do it with one hand. You cannot possibly believe Kishi wants the readers to believe Jiraiya is superior at chakra controlling than Tsunade and Sakura. The rasengan was never particularly praised for its chakra control. You're simply judging it off it's appearance. Even though Naruto learned the odama rasengan, he STILL had trouble manipulating his chakra for the kai technique. One would think if the rasengan was really that much of a feat of chakra control, then Naruto would have no problem with genjutsu kai, something Sakura could do since part 1. In fact, Jiraiya had to teach Naruto genjutsu kai after learning the rasengan. Utilizing genjutsu kai; one needs to have excellent control of their chakra, learning how to stop it, then applying a greater amount. Again, something Naruto couldn't do after the learning the rasengan. He couldn't even do it proficiently after learning the odama rasengan. At this point, it's just refusing to accept the obvious; rasengan isn't remotely a great chakra control feat. I reiterate, Sakura could do it since part 1. This rasengan argument really needs to sleep, even with its variants (TBB, RS), we don't know if it comes anywhere close to the chakra control Tsunade and Sakura accomplished. The rasengan argument is not persuasive to those who actually think about it. Hell Rock Lee can open his chakra gates, are you going to constitute that to greater control than Sakura as well? You're basing it off appearance. To sum it up, we don't know if rasengan is a better feat of chakra controlling. Due to what I listed above, I'm inclined to believe it's far below what Sakura and Tsunade can do.

@Underlined, I'll get that to later.

@Red, Kakashi and Shizune praised Sakura for her chakra control. They made a big deal about it. No point here.

@Blue, What? First of all, the fact that Shizune praised Sakura for her precise chakra control, despite knowing of Sakura's strength (which Kakashi commented on the skill of control), says a lot. It's even more advanced than what Kakashi thought was impressive. Shizune is already aware of the chakra control Kakashi commented on, yet praised Sakura for the Yin Seal. Yes, that says a lot...

Yes he can give it out in large quantities, because he has large amount of chakra. We have no idea what's going on when Naruto matches chakra with his recipients. The rasengan destroys, the chakra scalpel cuts. Yet, Sakura can do the Mystical Palm, which actually heals. She's just not forming chakra and applying it to wounds, hoping that it heals. There's skill involved, something is going on there. I know that Naruto can match his chakra with others, that's all I know; there's some level of skill in doing it. More skilled than what Tsunade and Sakura could do? We can't say that.

. lol she doesn't even have a visual of what she's looking at o_O. She's somehow using the chakra to locate the poison, then she somehow removes the poison without effecting anything else. She somehow heals flesh with the mystical palm. Naruto somehow matches his chakra with others. I'm not convinced Naruto is better at chakra control...give Sakura the 9tails and a large chakra pool, and who knows what she can do with it? Give it to Tsunade, and who knows what she can do with it?

Pinnacle is used to convey her level of chakra control, it doesn't get any higher than this. She can learn more difficult techniques, yes, but she's at the pinnacle of chakra control. It doesn't mean she's perfect in it, just that she's reached that top level.

Kishi's portrayal is clear. Sakura and Tsunade are the best at chakra controlling.
 
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Booker

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I can't believe helpless Sakura fans are still arguing this.

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^ This scan puts all of your arguments to shame. Naruto can effortlessly change and deliver his chakra to fit others with a single tap on the shoulder. This is chakra control at its finest. ^
 

SharinganisOP

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Well, I'm saddened that no one responded to my previous post, I thought it had some very good information in it.

Anyways here is an example of Naruto's expert chakra control abilities. And some responses to some things other people have said.

Naruto literally controls the kyuubi chakra and makes arms with it. He is able to control this chakra so precisely he is able to stack a pyramid's tip on the top of another pyramid's tip and then continue stacking, and that is also underneath several other blocks. He controlled his chakra very well to do this, yes other people who don't have bijuu level chakra can't do this, but this still shows great precision on Naruto's part (not to mention he learned to do this in an extremely short time). You can find more examples of Naruto controlling chakra throughout the war, and he also gains the ability to combine black and white chakra during the war... He learnt an advanced technique on the fly when he had to. And The TBB definitely requires advanced chakra control, and needs to be extremely precise.

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why are people so adamant on believing "precise" chakra control is the only chakra control there is, or that it stands above all other forms of chakra control? There is physical chakra control and spatial chakra control as well. There is controlling chakra that has been made with natural energy. There is the ability to pass one's chakra from one's self to another person, which I showed in my last post (Tsunade and Naruto could do, but Sakura couldn't), which is controlling your chakra and adapting it to another persons. Controlling chakra Natures is also chakra control. I don't even know if that is all the versions of chakra control there are but there definitely isn't one type.

The yin seal is definitely hard to do and of course requires precise chakra control. But I'm sure that over time it becomes something you do unconciously, just like how walking on water or walking on trees becomes an unconcious thing to do. Kakashi stands on the water, while in a genjutsu and even when he collapses he takes a knee on the water. I'm sure I could provide much more examples for such things happening unconciously. I say that it happens unconciously because Tsunade, while in a coma, was able to compose her yin seal. So it is clearly something you can do while you are sleeping which means someone can provide chakra to the seal unconsciously. Even something that requires precise chakra control can be done unconsciously, must not be too hard to do if you can do it unconsciously yeah? Perhaps shizune just lacked the talent Sakura had, but that doesn't mean that other people other than Sakura and Tsunade can't learn it. Naruto is the son of the fourth hokage, and has been shown to learn techniques incredibly fast. Even ones that need great and precise chakra control. As I showed in my last post Naruto concentrated so much chakra in one spot in his hand (about the size of the yin seal too) that he actually burned his hand. I bet he could learn it if Tsunade tried teaching him. In response to this one guy saying Tsunade and Sakura havn't bothered trying to learn those techniques, well guess what. Naruto has not tried to learn the yin seal either,

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There are how many rasengan users ever? 5? Minato, Jaraiya, Kakashi, Naruto, and Konohamaru. Tsunade seemingly thought it to be impossible for anyone besides Jaraiya and Minato to know. Kakashi copied it with his sharingan and Konohamaru was taught by Naruto. Konohamaru was raised to become a hokage, he was raised to be powerful. He has had his own personal trainer since the very beginning of the series. Konohamaru is also the grandson of the third hokage, so we know that great blood runs through his veins, and his potential is high. He very well could have really great chakra control, but we haven't really seen enough of him to determine his chakra control. All we know is that he can use the rasengan, so at the very least that should show he has above average chakra control. I won't compare his chakra control to Sakura's or Naruto's though, because we really don't know that much about Konohamaru, we know much more about Sakura and Naruto and their various feats. Konohamaru should not be taken lightly for various reasons, one reason being as he does know an ultra high grade A rank technique which is the pinnacle of spatial chakra composition (rasengan).

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Oh not only that the feat Naruto accomplished can only be done with Kurama's chakra and can't do it with his own.

It is stated that the chakra cloaks given to the army are Naruto's chakra. Converted to Naruto's chakra from the Kyuubi's chakra, but still Naruto's chakra. It would be simple to assume that with Naruto's above average chakra level, even without Kurama, he would still be able to give away chakra.

Still I think Naruto's chakra control is put to complete shame by Juubito's though.

I think thats all I have for now, hope everything made sense.
 

Disquiet

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I can't believe helpless Sakura fans are still arguing this.

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^ This scan puts all of your arguments to shame. Naruto can effortlessly change and deliver his chakra to fit others with a single tap on the shoulder. This is chakra control at its finest. ^

Yeah, looking at it without going through the factors, and expounding on Sakura's ability. One would think, "Daaaaamn, he's a gazillion times better."

Being as neutral as you can, carefully read the following.

Yes he can give it out in large quantities, because he has large amount of chakra. We have no idea what's going on when Naruto matches chakra with his recipients. The rasengan destroys, the chakra scalpel cuts. Yet, Sakura can do the Mystical Palm, which actually heals. She's just not forming chakra and applying it to wounds, hoping that it heals. There's skill involved, something is going on there. I know that Naruto can match his chakra with others, that's all I know; there's some level of skill in doing it. More skilled than what Tsunade and Sakura could do? We can't say that.

. lol she doesn't even have a visual of what she's looking at o_O. She's somehow using the chakra to locate the poison, then she somehow removes the poison without effecting anything else. She somehow heals flesh with the mystical palm. Naruto somehow matches his chakra with others. I'm not convinced Naruto is better at chakra control...give Sakura the 9tails and a large chakra pool, and who knows what she can do with it? Give it to Tsunade, and who knows what she can do with it?

Now look at this.



Sakura is linking her chakra through Katsuyu to heal others. lol how exactly is this even done? Katsuyu is an external being, not even making contact. Yet somehow Sakura is able to give it to Katsuyu, who then gives it to the injured.

In that page, that's Kurama's chakra. Kurama's chakra is able to adapt, unlike regular chakra. This is one of it's benefits. Kurama even says well "I can also pass chakra through him". Naruto is exploiting that benefit of Kurama's chakra; being able to adapt to others. It's not his chakra that's matching the chakra type, it's Kurama's. Is it a notable feat? Hell yes. Does it mean he's better at chakra control than Tsunade and Sakura? No it doesn't. They don't have Kurama or a chakra that's capable of adapting to others. Naruto has that benefit.

Keeping in mind what I quoted above, I do hope you see the point here.
 
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Booker

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Yeah, looking at it without going through the factors, and expounding on Sakura's ability. One would think, "Daaaaamn, he's a gazillion times better."

Being as neutral as you can, carefully read the following.

That's impossible. Everyone is biased in some form. Only good arguments will sway somebody else.


Now look at this.



Sakura is linking her chakra through Katsuyu to heal others. lol how exactly is this even done? Katsuyu is an external being, not even making contact. Yet somehow Sakura is able to give it to Katsuyu, who then gives it to the injured.

Give me scans stating that she's delivering her chakra through Katsuyu.

In that page, that's Kurama's chakra. Kurama's chakra is able to adapt, unlike regular chakra.

Once again, scans please. Everyone's chakra can adapt, it's how medics work. They just do it on a much smaller scale

This is one of it's benefits. Kurama even says well "I can also pass chakra through him". Naruto is exploiting that benefit of Kurama's chakra; being able to adapt to others.

ERNT wrong.

Kurama even said Minato did the same thing without Kurama's chakra, meaning it's not Kurama's chakra that can only adapt. Naruto is doing the same technique his father did, except leagues above him.

It's not his chakra that's matching the chakra type, it's Kurama's.

Wrong again, pay attention to the scan. The chakra starts as Kurama's, is converted to Naruto's, and then Naruto converts it to other's.

Is it a notable feat? Hell yes. Does it mean he's better at chakra control than Tsunade and Sakura?

Yes.

No it doesn't. They don't have Kurama or a chakra that's capable of adapting to others. Naruto has that benefit.

Again, re-read the manga. All chakra can be adapted. Sakura can barely adapt hers to one person at a time to transfer chakra, Naruto does it effortlessly racing through an entire alliance.

Keeping in mind what I quoted above, I do hope you see the point here.

There is no signifigant point.
 

Disquiet

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That's impossible. Everyone is biased in some form. Only good arguments will sway somebody else.




Give me scans stating that she's delivering her chakra through Katsuyu.



Once again, scans please. Everyone's chakra can adapt, it's how medics work. They just do it on a much smaller scale



ERNT wrong.

Kurama even said Minato did the same thing without Kurama's chakra, meaning it's not Kurama's chakra that can only adapt. Naruto is doing the same technique his father did, except leagues above him.



Wrong again, pay attention to the scan. The chakra starts as Kurama's, is converted to Naruto's, and then Naruto converts it to other's.



Yes.



Again, re-read the manga. All chakra can be adapted. Sakura can barely adapt hers to one person at a time to transfer chakra, Naruto does it effortlessly racing through an entire alliance.



There is no signifigant point.

I'll find the scans later, assuming I still have the energy to continue this. As for being neutral, I said as much as you can. If one doesn't have a liking to a particular character, then they're going to be less bias than a fanboy/fangirl.

But TWD, did I just understand you right? Did you just say that medical nins adapt their chaka type to others...? That Sakura can do the same as Naruto? That if I find a scan proving she's channeling her chakra through Katsuyu, it will prove she's able to do so on a massive scale (even though you just stated that she do so, but on a much smaller scale)?

It may take a while to get those scans.
 
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