Naruto chapter 606: Clearing some things up

[Bogard]

Not sure if everyone will believe in this, but when i was checking for some japanese translations and found the one of Naruto chapter 606 and this is what is said

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mada: you cannot active the rinnegan unless you don’t posses both the power of the uchiha and the senju\\
mada: furthermore, you cannot manipulate the demonic statue well\\
mada: you have the senju cells attached to the right half of your body…\\
mada: probably you will be able to control the demonic statue even without activating the rinnegan\\
obi: first we have to tame nagato just as madara said\\
sfx: *step*\\
obi: we have to gather the scattered parts of the juubi\\ and use nagato’s rinne tensei on madara…\\
mada: obito… I will teach you the forbidden techniques of the uchiha and the techniques of the six paths…\\
mada: plus the yin yang release techniques…\\

- In those bold part, Madara implies that Rinnengan isn't enough to control Gedo Mazo well. You will need Uchiha and Senju DNA for that. So it means Nagato wasn't able to control Gedo Mazo well(possibly the reason why konan warned him about it against Hanzo)

- The second bold part also show that Madara taught Uchiha forbidden techniques to Obito(possibly Izanagi and Izanami then)

 

[OnPoint]

I made a thread about this. Anyway, I wouldn't use mangahelpers' translations without looking at others' as well. VIZ implies that the Rinnegan gives you limited control but allows you to summon the beast, something supported by various translations. Senju and Uchiha DNA gives you control over the Mazou, but you cannot summon it without the Rinnegan.

 

[Bogard]

I made a thread about this. Anyway, I wouldn't use mangahelpers' translations without looking at others' as well. VIZ implies that the Rinnegan gives you limited control but allows you to summon the beast, something supported by various translations. Senju and Uchiha DNA gives you control over the Mazou, but you cannot summon it without the Rinnegan.

Thanks for the advice. I'll try to check some others then, but i think basically mangahelpers translation explains it just fine. Can you link me your thread btw?

 

[Amazeballs]

Not sure if everyone will believe in this, but when i was checking for some japanese translations and found the one of Naruto chapter 606 and this is what is said

You must be registered for see links

- In those bold part, Madara implies that Rinnengan isn't enough to control Gedo Mazo well. You will need Uchiha and Senju DNA for that. So it means Nagato wasn't able to control Gedo Mazo well(possibly the reason why konan warned him about it against Hanzo)

- The second bold part also show that Madara taught Uchiha forbidden techniques to Obito(possibly Izanagi and Izanami then)

I think Nagato had the Uchiha powers via transplanted Rinnegan, even if he lacks actual Uchiha DNA, and his Senju powers were covered by his Uzumaki lineage. I think Nagato's condition is part of the reason why Obito originally wanted to "sync" Sasuke with the Gedo Mazou. Wish we had more information on Sasuke's role in Obito's plan at this point; seems like Obito forgot about Sasuke.

 

[Bogard]

I think Nagato had the Uchiha powers via transplanted Rinnegan, even if he lacks actual Uchiha DNA, and his Senju powers were covered by his Uzumaki lineage. I think Nagato's condition is part of the reason why Obito originally wanted to "sync" Sasuke with the Gedo Mazou. Wish we had more information on Sasuke's role in Obito's plan at this point; seems like Obito forgot about Sasuke.

I don't think so, or it would mean that Kakashi has Uchiha DNA via Sharingan, but it's proven in part1 by Itachi that it's wrong

 

[Minator93]

Exactly! I believed in both. But I never actually thought about Nagato's failure against Hanzo in that aspect.

 

[OnPoint]

Narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=291882/

Also, the VIZ says Nagato was the only one other than Madara who could summon the Mazou (on the page when Spiral Zetsu and Obito are looking at him).

 

[Omnipotent]

Not sure if everyone will believe in this, but when i was checking for some japanese translations and found the one of Naruto chapter 606 and this is what is said

You must be registered for see links

- In those bold part, Madara implies that Rinnengan isn't enough to control Gedo Mazo well. You will need Uchiha and Senju DNA for that. So it means Nagato wasn't able to control Gedo Mazo well(possibly the reason why konan warned him about it against Hanzo)

- The second bold part also show that Madara taught Uchiha forbidden techniques to Obito(possibly Izanagi and Izanami then)

To that second part, we already know.
Why else would Obito be able to use izanagi against Konan?

 

[Bogard]

Exactly! I believed in both. But I never actually thought about Nagato's failure against Hanzo in that aspect.

Well i always wondered about that tbh but i didn't know why until Madara's explanation

Narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=291882/

Also, the VIZ says Nagato was the only one other than Madara who could summon the Mazou (on the page when Spiral Zetsu and Obito are looking at him).

Thanks for the link man

To that second part, we already know.
Why else would Obito be able to use izanagi against Konan?

We knew he could use Izanagi, but Izanami was uncertain by some eventhough i never doubted it

 

[KingHashirama]

Its basically the same as the original page:

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[FloriGlori]

That's a point I considered to be obvious, since all three translation I've seen so far imply the same condition. In order to assume perfect control over the Mazou, one must unify Uchiha and Senju blood. Nagato lacks the former, as Itachi implied that the Uchiha's eyes alone are not enough to imitate the entire bloodline during his conversation with Kakashi.

In conclusion, Nagato's control over Gedo Mazo pales in comparisson to Obito's, which is further confirmed by the latter himself.

Spoiler

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I feel there's another part of the chapter which requires further attention, namely the part where Madara explains he'd going to teach Obito the Jutsu of the six paths, or rather Rikudo no Jutsu. [

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]. That made lots of people believe Madara actually teached him the techniques of Tendo, Chikushodo, Shurado, Gakido, Ningendo and Shurado, which is wrong, as long as the VIZ translation isn't completely different. What he actually refers to with 'Jutsu of the six paths' is the outer path's ability to control foreign bodies; that becomes clear when Madara tells him to use the black rods, which form the said technique's basis, for Rikudo no Jutsu. [

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]

 

[OnPoint]

Spoiler

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I feel there's another part of the chapter which requires further attention, namely the part where Madara explains he'd going to teach Obito the Jutsu of the six paths, or rather Rikudo no Jutsu. [

You must be registered for see links

]. That made lots of people believe Madara actually teached him the techniques of Tendo, Chikushodo, Shurado, Gakido, Ningendo and Shurado, which is wrong, as long as the VIZ translation isn't completely different. What he actually refers to with 'Jutsu of the six paths' is the outer path's ability to control foreign bodies; that becomes clear when Madara tells him to use the black rods, which form the said technique's basis, for Rikudo no Jutsu. [

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]

No, Madara wouldn't have mentioned the Jutsu of the 6 paths if Obito was only to be taught the Outer Realm (which isn't even part of the traditional '6 paths' which was mentioned, rather, the 7th path, Gedou). The black rods would still be relevant if Obito wished to use Gakidou or the like through the dead bodies. Obito has already indicated that he is able to freely use the Rikudou no Jutsu in its entirety [

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][

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].

 

[Strict]

You act as if this chapters translation wasn't clear.

 

[Waltz]

@ OP: The translation was clear.

Personally, i believe the entire Nagato situation was a setup.When Nagato summoned the Gedo, it came from directly under the earth instead of a regular summoning. Also, unlike Obito's case it started doing the "Soul removal" jutsu on it's own. That is un-natural for a summoning...unless nagato was the one who made it

That's a point I considered to be obvious, since all three translation I've seen so far imply the same condition. In order to assume perfect control over the Mazou, one must unify Uchiha and Senju blood. Nagato lacks the former, as Itachi implied that the Uchiha's eyes alone are not enough to imitate the entire bloodline during his conversation with Kakashi.

In conclusion, Nagato's control over Gedo Mazo pales in comparisson to Obito's, which is further confirmed by the latter himself.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I feel there's another part of the chapter which requires further attention, namely the part where Madara explains he'd going to teach Obito the Jutsu of the six paths, or rather Rikudo no Jutsu. [

You must be registered for see links

]. That made lots of people believe Madara actually teached him the techniques of Tendo, Chikushodo, Shurado, Gakido, Ningendo and Shurado, which is wrong, as long as the VIZ translation isn't completely different. What he actually refers to with 'Jutsu of the six paths' is the outer path's ability to control foreign bodies; that becomes clear when Madara tells him to use the black rods, which form the said technique's basis, for Rikudo no Jutsu. [

You must be registered for see links

]

Flori,
I disagree on one thing. If you can explain how he would know to use Gedo Renne Tensei without have shown any training i'd be in full agreement. You said that he was only thought Human path, how would he know Naraka's abilities?

 

[FloriGlori]

No, Madara wouldn't have mentioned the Jutsu of the 6 paths if Obito was only to be taught the Outer Realm (which isn't even part of the traditional '6 paths' which was mentioned, rather, the 7th path, Gedou). The black rods would still be relevant if Obito wished to use Gakidou or the like through the dead bodies. Obito has already indicated that he is able to freely use the Rikudou no Jutsu in its entirety [

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][

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].

Which is exactly my point; Madara wasn't talking about the six paths' techniques in the first place. If he was, like you claim, referring to the traditional six paths used by Pein, and only them, there would be no point in mentioning the black rods at all, as they're only of relevance to Gedo. ***********'s translation made it quite clear to me that he's talking about the same thing on both pages, which is Rikudo no Jutsu, Gedo's ability to remotely control bodies.

It seems unrealistic at all to teach him techniques whose requiremens he hadn't even met yet and thus could not even use them, while there was a certain connection between Obito and the black rods already before he actually acquired the Rinnegan. [

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] I'm aware of both situations which pointed towards Obito having some of the Rinnegan's powers at his command, but they do not indicate that he can utilize the Dojutsu's full power. I'm not denying that he can use its power to some extent, as he's incredibly skilled and proved amazing talent at using new powers [

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], but I highly doubt that Madara teached him how to use the Rinnegan's paths in their entirety.

Flori,
I disagree on one thing. If you can explain how he would know to use Gedo Renne Tensei without have shown any training i'd be in full agreement. You said that he was only thought Human path, how would he know Naraka's abilities?

Wrong. I said he was only taught Rikudo no Jutsu, the ability to control bodies originating from Gedo, the outer path.

Your doubt is that Obito could not have learned the technique without any form of training, but there would have been no point in teaching him the Rinne Tensei no Jutsu either way, as the original plan was to have Nagato execute the technique. For now, it's not even proven if Obito can acually use it, but even then, he might have very well taught himself how to do it. For a person like him, having refined most of his techniques already in young age, it seems by far not impossible.

 

[KuroKaze]

1)those who have awakened their rinnegan(madara) have (a)full control over the mazo...coz they possess both senju and uchiha power....by default....b)including gaining the special knowledge of the seal to unlock/retrive juubi's body from the moon and c)summon it as per the requirement...
2)those who r worthy of recieving a rinnegan (uzumaki for example)and have recieved rinnegan like nagato can a)summon gedo mazou...but face difficulty controlling the mazo.
3)those who have [senju dna and uchiha dna both ...like obito can control the gedo mazo even without rinnegan....when obito got rinnegan he got another ability that to summon it aywhere....