Naruto and Sasuke vs Hagoromo

[Holy God]

Ok.

But then that doesn't help show that him + Naruto are better than Hagoromo, because the only reason his Rinnegan is "better" than the rest is because he retains abilities he already had prior.

I'm not saying his Rinnegan-based abilities themselves are superior, just the eye, which it is. And the reason why I mentioned them was because DrProof had said what he did as if the given powers were somehow much inferior to Hagoromo's own.

-Juubi's chakra arms are the Juubi's physical strength. That's a benefit Hagoromo doesn't have.
-Bijuu Dama is another.
-Regeneration is another.

The only things Hagoromo shares w/ the Juubi are the Gudo Dama. Getting the Juubi itself is a large boost to every single ability the user already has so Hagoromo or anyone who becomes the Jin is clearly getting a large boost.

I agree with Hagoromo gaining more chakra (thus stronger/larger abilities), regeneration, chakra arms (if he didn't already have them), and Tailed Beast Bombs. His attributes aren't going to increase much though since he was already at Six Paths Sage Mode level. You've already before said Naruto and Sasuke can "neg diff" Holy Madara, who has the same abilities as this Hagoromo and more, so I don't get what makes you think he's any different than Nagato with the Ten-Tails right now. If you can clear that up it'd be easier to discuss.

Yeah, but Hagoromo has the Juubi. Sharingan, Kurama and 8 pieces of the other Bijuu aren't cancelling out the tremendous increase in raw power alone that the Juubi grants. The only way to argue that these abilities change the outcome is if there was some sort of hax that they could take advantage of, but there isn't.

I'm not sure if you're referring to Hagoromo himself or if you're saying if Hagoromo were to summon the Ten-Tails out of himself.

 

[KidGamer65]

I'm not saying his Rinnegan-based abilities themselves are superior, just the eye, which it is. And the reason why I mentioned them was because DrProof had said what he did as if the given powers were somehow much inferior to Hagoromo's own.



I agree with Hagoromo gaining more chakra (thus stronger/larger abilities), regeneration, chakra arms (if he didn't already have them), and Tailed Beast Bombs. His attributes aren't going to increase much though since he was already at Six Paths Sage Mode level. You've already before said Naruto and Sasuke can "neg diff" Holy Madara, who has the same abilities as this Hagoromo and more, so I don't get what makes you think he's any different than Nagato with the Ten-Tails right now. If you can clear that up it'd be easier to discuss.



I'm not sure if you're referring to Hagoromo himself or if you're saying if Hagoromo were to summon the Ten-Tails out of himself.

The power themselves aren't, but the techniques that come from those powers are because Hagoromo has more and stronger chakra by far.

How does the bold make sense? Your level doesn't determine how power ups affect you. Your level with respect to the power up is what determines how the power up effects you. His physical abilities may not be drastically above that of people like Madara and Naruto, but his chakra and his Ninjutsu will be.

If I ever said that Naruto and Sasuke would neg diff Madara I was either talking about Madara with one eye and I was clearly exaggerating. War Naruto and Sasuke would need to team up to defeat Madara at full power and they'd still have a large chance of losing. That and Madara and Hagoromo sharing the same abilities doesn't mean that the scale of those abilities are the same. The scale of abilities goes up with chakra amount and/or chakra strength. Madara is on the same level as the Hagoromo who gave Naruto and Sasuke their power. (As Naruto and Sasuke are capable of fighting on par with him together) The Juubi takes Hagoromo above that level.

 

[Holy God]

The power themselves aren't, but the techniques that come from those powers are because Hagoromo has more and stronger chakra by far.

I agree.

How does the bold make sense? Your level doesn't determine how power ups affect you. Your level with respect to the power up is what determines how the power up effects you. His physical abilities may not be drastically above that of people like Madara and Naruto, but his chakra and his Ninjutsu will be.

I am basically saying the same thing as you. I meant attributes as in physical ability, which is why I separated that and the power of his techniques.

If I ever said that Naruto and Sasuke would neg diff Madara I was either talking about Madara with one eye and I was clearly exaggerating. War Naruto and Sasuke would need to team up to defeat Madara at full power and they'd still have a large chance of losing. That and Madara and Hagoromo sharing the same abilities doesn't mean that the scale of those abilities are the same. The scale of abilities goes up with chakra amount and/or chakra strength. Madara is on the same level as the Hagoromo who gave Naruto and Sasuke their power. (As Naruto and Sasuke are capable of fighting on par with him together) The Juubi takes Hagoromo above that level.

I don't understand how you come to such a conclusion. You're correct in saying the strength of one's techniques goes up with chakra potency and volume. I'm going to assume you think the Hagoromo who gave Naruto and Sasuke power is him without the Ten-Tails. In this case, do you not contradict yourself? Holy Madara has far more chakra than Hagoromo and with stronger potency, so how are they on the same level? How does Host Hagoromo, who has the same level of chakra as Holy Madara (although maybe lacking in potency due to not having the Holy Tree), reach a completely different level?

 

[KidGamer65]

I agree.



I am basically saying the same thing as you. I meant attributes as in physical ability, which is why I separated that and the power of his techniques.



I don't understand how you come to such a conclusion. You're correct in saying the strength of one's techniques goes up with chakra potency and volume. I'm going to assume you think the Hagoromo who gave Naruto and Sasuke power is him without the Ten-Tails. In this case, do you not contradict yourself? Holy Madara has far more chakra than Hagoromo and with stronger potency, so how are they on the same level? How does Host Hagoromo, who has the same level of chakra as Holy Madara (although maybe lacking in potency due to not having the Holy Tree), reach a completely different level?

Both of them having the Juubi doesn't mean that their chakra is on the same level. Getting the Juubi is just like getting Sage Mode or RSM, it's a multiplier. That's why

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despite them both being Juubi Jinchuuriki. Rinnegan Hagoromo is far stronger than Rinnegan Madara, thus when they both get the Juubi Hagoromo is still superior, and he's superior in the first place because the two shinobi carrying half of his power are on par w/ Peak Madara when fighting together.

So JJ Madara only has far more chakra, which is the less important of the two hence Sasuke and Naruto always being on the same level despite Naruto's chakra reserves being far larger.

 

[Holy God]

Both of them having the Juubi doesn't mean that their chakra is on the same level. Getting the Juubi is just like getting Sage Mode or RSM, it's a multiplier. That's why

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despite them both being Juubi Jinchuuriki. Rinnegan Hagoromo is far stronger than Rinnegan Madara, thus when they both get the Juubi Hagoromo is still superior, and he's superior in the first place because the two shinobi carrying half of his power are on par w/ Peak Madara when fighting together.

So JJ Madara only has far more chakra, which is the less important of the two hence Sasuke and Naruto always being on the same level despite Naruto's chakra reserves being far larger.

It's pretty obvious the Ten-Tails does not multiply your chakra level. It has a set amount of chakra. If you give the Ten-Tails to two people, the difference in their chakra is only the difference they had in the first place. Minato could tell Madara was more powerful because Madara had a more complete Ten-Tails than Obito did. And like I said, Madara reaps more benefits from the Ten-Tails than Hagoromo, so the thing that made any such big difference between both of their Rinnegan versions in the first place, Six Paths Sage Mode, becomes irrelevant.

Naruto and Sasuke are not verifiers of Host Hagoromo being so above Holy Madara, because then it completely throws away the chakra being the source of one's power concept, which both are equivalent in.

 

[KidGamer65]

It's pretty obvious the Ten-Tails does not multiply your chakra level. It has a set amount of chakra. If you give the Ten-Tails to two people, the difference in their chakra is only the difference they had in the first place. Minato could tell Madara was more powerful because Madara had a more complete Ten-Tails than Obito did. And like I said, Madara reaps more benefits from the Ten-Tails than Hagoromo, so the thing that made any such big difference between both of their Rinnegan versions in the first place, Six Paths Sage Mode, becomes irrelevant.

Naruto and Sasuke are not verifiers of Host Hagoromo being so above Holy Madara, because then it completely throws away the chakra being the source of one's power concept, which both are equivalent in.

No, I said the the power boost it grants is a multiplier. That's irrelevant to chakra amount. So this point is moot. Weak Person + Juubi will still be weaker than Strong Person + Juubi. That's a fact and has been a fact for almost every single type of power up. Madara's power caps at him being on par w/ Naruto + Sasuke, who are only as strong as they are because they carry half of Rinnegan (without the Juubi) Hagoromo's power. If you want to argue that Madara and JJ Hagoromo are on par you're going to have to show that the Juubi doesn't increase Hagoromo's power, which you can't because the very notion that it doesn't is ridiculous.


Madara reaping more benefits is false and doesn't make sense. Madara only gets more abilities (not actual boosts in power) because Hagoromo already had those abilities to begin with, and the only abilities he shares w/ Juubi Jins are flight, the Gudo Dama, and sensing. They have the same abilities, no one benefits more than the other overall in that field. What you are saying literally makes zero sense.

The bold is false. There is no difference between Obito and Madara's Juubi that'd cause a difference in power. The Juubi was born in the first state shown to us because Obito used pieces of Gyuki and Kurama. The Juubi then advanced to it's matured and strongest stage on it's own by absorbing Nature Energy. Madara's Juubi being born in the final stage when Madara had more Bijuu than Obito is what clearly shows to be true.

Yes, they are verifiers. Underlined doesn't make sense. Hagoromo and Madara are not equivalent in chakra in the first place nor have you been able to properly support such in this argument, so using that as evidence to prove another argument doesn't help your point. What is fact is that Naruto and Sasuke are roughly half of Hagoromo and together they can fight on par w/ Madara. Meaning Hagoromo alone has the power to fight on par with Madara without the Juubi let alone with it.

 

[Holy God]

Madara's power caps at him being on par w/ Naruto + Sasuke, who are only as strong as they are because they carry half of Rinnegan (without the Juubi) Hagoromo's power. If you want to argue that Madara and JJ Hagoromo are on par you're going to have to show that the Juubi doesn't increase Hagoromo's power, which you can't because the very notion that it doesn't is ridiculous.

Naruto and Sasuke do not accurately represent halves of Hagoromo's power or how he'd do against Madara. Not only did neither sides use their full power, but the only valid hits they got on Madara were due to Amenotejikara, a technique Hagoromo doesn't have. Not to mention fighting two people is different than one and their teamwork is stated to be perfect. Let's imagine Naruto and Sasuke against Hagoromo, who, from what we know, only has the Rinnegan and Six Paths Sage Mode. Are they, or are they not going to have a much easier time against a couple of Rinnegan techniques, chakra arms, and Tailed Beast Bombs from the ground than they would against Madara's entire arsenal (which includes all of that in the first place)?

Madara reaping more benefits is false and doesn't make sense. Madara only gets more abilities (not actual boosts in power) because Hagoromo already had those abilities to begin with, and the only abilities he shares w/ Juubi Jins are flight, the Gudo Dama, and sensing. They have the same abilities, no one benefits more than the other overall in that field. What you are saying literally makes zero sense.

You just contradicted yourself. Hagoromo already had those abilities like you said, which means they aren't benefits to him from becoming the Ten-Tails' host, thus meaning Madara reaped more benefits.

The bold is false. There is no difference between Obito and Madara's Juubi that'd cause a difference in power. The Juubi was born in the first state shown to us because Obito used pieces of Gyuki and Kurama. The Juubi then advanced to it's matured and strongest stage on it's own by absorbing Nature Energy. Madara's Juubi being born in the final stage when Madara had more Bijuu than Obito is what clearly shows to be true.

It's not false. Madara's Ten-Tails had Kurama and Gyuuki. It obviously had more power. Minato sensed "Six Paths power", and the only way to be able to sense such a thing is through the Ten-Tails' chakra, which Madara had more of.

Yes, they are verifiers. Underlined doesn't make sense. Hagoromo and Madara are not equivalent in chakra in the first place nor have you been able to properly support such in this argument, so using that as evidence to prove another argument doesn't help your point. What is fact is that Naruto and Sasuke are roughly half of Hagoromo and together they can fight on par w/ Madara. Meaning Hagoromo alone has the power to fight on par with Madara without the Juubi let alone with it.

We've both agreed the chakra potency and volume are what determines that strength of a technique. Madara and Hagoromo have the same potency, if not with the former's being stronger, right? Then that means you are only basing Hagoromo having more power upon the volume of his chakra being greater, right? However, it's not who has more chakra, but who puts more chakra into their techniques. Madara and Hagoromo both have vast amounts of chakra. Hagoromo's abilities can only be stronger if he were to put more chakra in his than Madara could, which would require at least the entire amount of Madara's chakra, which would be something like 80% of Hagoromo's if you agree on that.

 

[KidGamer65]

Naruto and Sasuke do not accurately represent halves of Hagoromo's power or how he'd do against Madara. Not only did neither sides use their full power, but the only valid hits they got on Madara were due to Amenotejikara, a technique Hagoromo doesn't have. Not to mention fighting two people is different than one and their teamwork is stated to be perfect. Let's imagine Naruto and Sasuke against Hagoromo, who, from what we know, only has the Rinnegan and Six Paths Sage Mode. Are they, or are they not going to have a much easier time against a couple of Rinnegan techniques, chakra arms, and Tailed Beast Bombs from the ground than they would against Madara's entire arsenal (which includes all of that in the first place)?

I never once referenced Naruto and Sasuke vs. One Eyed Madara. I'm just saying that Naruto and Sasuke vs. Madara would be an even match. Sure, teamwork is a large part of fighting together, but when it comes to large scale battles raw ability is the biggest factor and if two halves of Hagoromo's power can fight on par with Madara it's ridiculous to argue that Hagoromo himself + the Juubi is still on that level.

And yes, they are close enough to half of his power for me to make this comparison unless you think the difference makes up for the fact that we're adding the Juubi to Hagoromo's power.

To answer your question, they have a harder time against Juubi Jin Hagoromo because he's far stronger. Idk why you are under the impression that them having the same abilities puts them on the same level of power.

You just contradicted yourself. Hagoromo already had those abilities like you said, which means they aren't benefits to him from becoming the Ten-Tails' host, thus meaning Madara reaped more benefits.

No. I said no one benefits more than the other at the end of it all. Madara gaining more abilities from the Juubi is irrelevant when discussing who's stronger because Hagoromo already has those abilities. Thus they have the same abilities. Where they came from and who had them first doesn't matter.

It's not false. Madara's Ten-Tails had Kurama and Gyuuki. It obviously had more power. Minato sensed "Six Paths power", and the only way to be able to sense such a thing is through the Ten-Tails' chakra, which Madara had more of.

This isn't a rebuttal to what I said, so go read that and then respond cause it answers this sentence 100%.

We've both agreed the chakra potency and volume are what determines that strength of a technique.

Yes, chakra potency and/or volume determines the power of techniques. That all depends on what technique is being discussed. Having more chakra doesn't automatically make your jutsu stronger.

Madara and Hagoromo have the same potency, if not with the former's being stronger, right?

Jin Madara and Jin Hagoromo? No. Jin Hagoromo is levels above him.

Then that means you are only basing Hagoromo having more power upon the volume of his chakra being greater, right?

This is what I'm saying:

Hagoromo~Jin Madara when it comes to potency.
Jin Madara>Hagoromo when it comes to volume.
Jin Hagoromo>Jin Madara in potency due to the former now getting the Juubi.
Jin Hagoromo>Jin Madara in amount since he now has the Juubi.

Jin Hagoromo is stronger because his chakra is greater and stronger. Regular Hagoromo is on par with Jin Madara at best.

Jin Hagoromo>>Jin Madara>=Hagoromo.

However, it's not who has more chakra, but who puts more chakra into their techniques. Madara and Hagoromo both have vast amounts of chakra. Hagoromo's abilities can only be stronger if he were to put more chakra in his than Madara could, which would require at least the entire amount of Madara's chakra, which would be something like 80% of Hagoromo's if you agree on that.

Also true, but Hagoromo has stronger and more chakra, so his techniques are better by default.

 

[Holy God]

I never once referenced Naruto and Sasuke vs. One Eyed Madara. I'm just saying that Naruto and Sasuke vs. Madara would be an even match. Sure, teamwork is a large part of fighting together, but when it comes to large scale battles raw ability is the biggest factor and if two halves of Hagoromo's power can fight on par with Madara it's ridiculous to argue that Hagoromo himself + the Juubi is still on that level.

And yes, they are close enough to half of his power for me to make this comparison unless you think the difference makes up for the fact that we're adding the Juubi to Hagoromo's power.

To answer your question, they have a harder time against Juubi Jin Hagoromo because he's far stronger. Idk why you are under the impression that them having the same abilities puts them on the same level of power.

You're just overestimating the power the Ten-Tails gives Hagoromo in my opinion. Clearly the Naruto and Sasuke argument isn't going to work until we discuss the comparison of Madara and Hagoromo below.

No. I said no one benefits more than the other at the end of it all. Madara gaining more abilities from the Juubi is irrelevant when discussing who's stronger because Hagoromo already has those abilities. Thus they have the same abilities. Where they came from and who had them first doesn't matter.

Except it does matter, because you're basing Hagoromo being so much stronger than Madara because of their respective Rinnegan versions, where one already has Six Paths Sage Mode. If you take that away, you can't argue in Hagoromo's favor, because he's then basically a stronger Nagato, and even you think the Rinnegan is no match for Perfect Susano'o.

Once you agree on that, we then have to go to my main point, which is that since Rinnegan Hagoromo already has Six Paths Sage Mode, it's not a benefit for him after getting the Ten-Tails. Do you not agree that giving two versions of Rinnegan Hagoromo, one with Six Paths Sage Mode and one without it, the Ten-Tails, they'll be at the same level? The Sage Mode he had before does not stack with the new one.

This isn't a rebuttal to what I said, so go read that and then respond cause it answers this sentence 100%.

You said there is no difference between the two Ten-Tails to make any mark, and yet I clearly showed you over a Tailed Beasts' worth of chakra difference. You then claim that the Ten-Tails' chakra grew and reached it's final form, which is true, but does not counter my post at all. It being in it's final form does not mean it's at it's maximum chakra threshold, and even if it was, Madara still added even more chakra, so it is undeniably stronger.

Jin Madara and Jin Hagoromo? No. Jin Hagoromo is levels above him.



This is what I'm saying:

Hagoromo~Jin Madara when it comes to potency.
Jin Madara>Hagoromo when it comes to volume.
Jin Hagoromo>Jin Madara in potency due to the former now getting the Juubi.
Jin Hagoromo>Jin Madara in amount since he now has the Juubi.

Jin Hagoromo is stronger because his chakra is greater and stronger. Regular Hagoromo is on par with Jin Madara at best.

Jin Hagoromo>>Jin Madara>=Hagoromo.



Also true, but Hagoromo has stronger and more chakra, so his techniques are better by default.

This doesn't make the slightest of sense. The Holy Tree has the purest and most potent chakra source. The Ten-Tails comes second. Holy Madara draws his chakra from the Holy Tree and Ten-Tails, so Hagoromo who draws upon his diluted genetic chakra is clearly not equal to Madara in this regard. Host Hagoromo and Holy Madara both draw from the Ten-Tails, and Madara also has the Holy Tree, so Hagoromo has no source of chakra greater than his. His past chakra does not merge with the Tailed Beast's, which is the only way what you're saying could be true.

 

[Eng nawashi]

I don't think we can base how would Non jin Hagromo's performance be against DR JJ Madara or his power level relative to madara off Naruto and Sasuke's hypothetical performance against Madara .while it is true that they got powered up by hagromo ,Naruto and Sasuke have completely different arsenal .their strongest techniques aren't something that Non Jin Hagromo even had .Hagromo didn't have TTB ,kuarma avatar ,Kuarma's extra NE ,RS varients ,Rasengan ,Bijus,TTBRS ,PS ,Ameno,Indra arrow...etc .I think it is pretty clear that DR JJ Madara is above Non Jin Hagromo from what we know .They both have Rikudo senjutsu cloak .they both have Rinnegan but Madara have much more chakra which means he can use it on a larger scale .on top of that Madara has Juubi damas,Juubi chakra arms,IT and its chakra ,World wide Jukai kotan,Mouktun,Susano,Regeneration ,Immortality ..etc you can look at it that way .Madara has Rinnegan and Juubi while Hagromo has Rinnegan and was given birth by someone who had Juubi .the only way Hagromo can be close to Madara is having some haxed abilities that make up for the difference in firepower and scale .
It is important to note that DR JJ Madara VS Non Jin Hagromo isn't going to be an easy match up .even though Madara has apparently better arsenal ,Hagromo can counter some of Madara's strongest attacks like Juubi damas,IT and CT by just his TSB ,onmyudmoun and Rinnegan immunity to IT .

JJ Hagromo isn't far above Madara either when you take into consideration that Madara still has Immortality, Rinnesharingan ,susano,Moukton and IT unless Hagromo has some pretty haxed abilities that we don't know about or know about but not to its full potential in a real combat .also I am not sure if Hagromo hadn't Susano and mouktun .

As for the topic ,JJ Hagromo beats them .Juubi damas is GG once Hagromo decides to use it.that or some massive meteorite CT ends it .

 

[5nationer]

One who says Sasuke and Naruto wins is an idiot or high af
Hagoromo Wins

 

[5nationer]

Obviously he gave them power. It doesn't deter from my point.

you are a retard.
Be like that and stay mad
Hagoromo wins and you loose

 

[Holy God]

you are a retard.
Be like that and stay mad
Hagoromo wins and you loose

Please explain to a retard like me how Hagoromo wins with just a Rinnegan and the Ten-Tails.

 

[Disaster]

hagoromo wins mid diff

 

[KidGamer65]

You're just overestimating the power the Ten-Tails gives Hagoromo in my opinion. Clearly the Naruto and Sasuke argument isn't going to work until we discuss the comparison of Madara and Hagoromo below.

We've seen how much power it grants everyone else. Hagoromo is not an exception nor have you given any good reason for why he should be.

Except it does matter, because you're basing Hagoromo being so much stronger than Madara because of their respective Rinnegan versions, where one already has Six Paths Sage Mode. If you take that away, you can't argue in Hagoromo's favor, because he's then basically a stronger Nagato, and even you think the Rinnegan is no match for Perfect Susano'o.

Hagoromo doesn't have any kind of Sage Mode. The power he has is what he was born with, Six Paths Senjutsu.

Once you agree on that, we then have to go to my main point, which is that since Rinnegan Hagoromo already has Six Paths Sage Mode, it's not a benefit for him after getting the Ten-Tails. Do you not agree that giving two versions of Rinnegan Hagoromo, one with Six Paths Sage Mode and one without it, the Ten-Tails, they'll be at the same level? The Sage Mode he had before does not stack with the new one.

This makes zero sense.

1. Hagoromo's power is natural born.

2. He doesn't have any kind of Sage Mode. Literally never even hinted at, and no, him giving Naruto the ability RSM doesn't mean that he himself can use it. RSM is only a thing in the first place because it's Six Paths Senjutsu combined with Naruto's Sage Mode, which is literally called "Sage Mode", hence Six Paths Sage Mode.

3. Bold is not how power ups work. This would only make sense if it were a case like Naruto's, where Naruto has a Base state where his chakra is not any kind of Senjutsu, because then Naruto's natural state (Base) is bolstered by his new mode (RSM) instead of his other states being thrown into the mix. The other glaring issue with this comparison is that a "mode" isn't what powers you up. The chakra made available by said mode, or rather the chakra that let you enter said mode in the first place is what powers you up.

If you want to argue that JJ Hagoromo=Regular Hagoromo then you'll need to show that Hagoromo's chakra+Juubi's chakra=Hagoromo's chakra in power and size, but you can't because that doesn't make any logical sense. 2+2 does not equal 2.

You said there is no difference between the two Ten-Tails to make any mark, and yet I clearly showed you over a Tailed Beasts' worth of chakra difference. You then claim that the Ten-Tails' chakra grew and reached it's final form, which is true, but does not counter my post at all. It being in it's final form does not mean it's at it's maximum chakra threshold, and even if it was, Madara still added even more chakra, so it is undeniably stronger.

What are you even talking about? :lol If you understood what was being said then you'd know it counters it perfectly. You said Madara's Juubi>Obito's Juubi because of the missing Bijuu, but I already told you what the Juubi looks like with Bijuu missing.

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. It being at it's final form means it's at it's strongest, hence the term "final". If you want to argue that it doesn't you'll need to give a plausible reason. Madara's Juubi w/ all the Bijuu is identical to Obito's Juubi after it has matured. What reason have you given me to believe they are of different strengths? The underlined is irrelevant and false. Madara didn't add anything to Obito's Juubi.

>Juubi is born from 7 Bijuu and 2 pieces of 8 and 9.
>Juubi is in weakened state.
>Juubi gathers NE to reach matured state.
>Juubi is broken apart into the Bijuu.
>Juubi is reborn using all 9 Bijuu this time.
>Juubi is in matured state.

Obito's Juubi was separated back into the Bijuu. This isn't Obito's Juubi+gathered NE+the chakra Madara added.

This doesn't make the slightest of sense. The Holy Tree has the purest and most potent chakra source. The Ten-Tails comes second. Holy Madara draws his chakra from the Holy Tree and Ten-Tails, so Hagoromo who draws upon his diluted genetic chakra is clearly not equal to Madara in this regard. Host Hagoromo and Holy Madara both draw from the Ten-Tails, and Madara also has the Holy Tree, so Hagoromo has no source of chakra greater than his. His past chakra does not merge with the Tailed Beast's, which is the only way what you're saying could be true.

All that is irrelevant, and false. Madara taking in the Juubi and the Shinju doesn't make his chakra equal to what he's taking in overall. Otherwise every Juubi Jin or bearer of Hagoromo's chakra would be equal, but they are not. By this logic Kaguya=Madara in chakra yet the opposite was already stated. Also the strongest chakra in this verse is KAGUYA's. Not the Juubi. Not the Shinju. Kaguya's. Kaguya's chakra is directly from the Shinju. Hagoromo's chakra comes directly from her.

Your argument will continue to fall flat on it's face until you can provide a logical explanation for why Hagoromo in his normal state is equal to Hagoromo with the Juubi. The Manga has said multiple times that Hagoromo became like a God after getting the Juubi yet you expect me to believe that they are more or less on the same level? Lmao. Even your own argument contradicts itself.

-Jin Hagoromo and Regular Hagoromo are on the same level.
-But the Juubi's chakra>Hagoromo's chakra.
-Meaning when Hagoromo gets it he'd be stronger than before.

 

[Edogawa]

If it's so blatantly clear than you should be able to prove it, no? You claim Naruto and Sasuke can't win because not even themselves at Valley of the End can, but you provide literally no reason for either case except "he gave them power".

Kurama said Adult Naruto became clumsy when fighting Shin. That should prove Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke are weaker than their war arc versions.

It's about time we stop pinning non-Jubi Characters against Jinchuriki of the Jubi. There is such infinite gap in power. Naruto's and Sasuke's full power is destroying mountain ranges, whereas Base Hagoromo creates moons let alone what he can do with the Jubi.

 

[Megax Rocker7]

Man, Hagoromo is OP as f#ck.

He even created the seals that beat Kaguya, without external power.

He might even beat both without the juubi tbh, JJ Hagoromo is overkill.

 

[AlphaMaleLion]

JJ Hagoromo neg diffs, normal Hagoromo also wins but high diff. Hagoromo is the one who gave Naruto and Sasuke that much power.

 

[AlphaMaleLion]

Man, Hagoromo is OP as f#ck.

He even created the seals that beat Kaguya, without external power.

He might even beat both without the juubi tbh, JJ Hagoromo is overkill.

Indeed

 

[Peculiar Chester]

Hagoromo's a lover, not a fighter.