Naruto and sasuke now

[Uchiha Sutona]

OK what's initial form? Cause I'm pretty sure that naruto needed to go into 1 tail kurama cloak to even handle sasuke with 3 tomoe.

What are you saying that KC v2, I'm thinking that he has two tails in KC, is equal to MS. I don't even have to explain why this is wrong. I'll let the base handle that.

Also SM is not equal to MS FS. I honestly don't understand how you came to that conclusion Sasuke's Susanoo is stronger, has more defense and attacks are faster to prepare than in Naruto's Sage mode. Sasuke is also faster. The only thing Naruto has over Sasuke really is stamina, amount of chakra and recovery.

Also EMS is stronger than KCM, the past chapters just showed more of Sasuke's powers. KCM is stronger than mangekyou in ways but it's debatable. Basically they would be even if they were to fight eachother using these.

The rest is fine.

Initial form is when he just uses kyuubi chakra to enhance his abilities, similar to the battle with neji.

KC V1 is 1 tails - 3 tails. "Cloak #1"
KC V2 is 4 tails - 8 tails. "Cloak #2" - Nagato battled this one, with the Rinnegan, the strongest ocular ability, and he was defeated. Telling me Sasuke can defeat him in this state with MS is naive.

"Also SM is not equal to MS FS. I honestly don't understand how you came to that conclusion Sasuke's Susanoo is stronger, has more defense and attacks are faster to prepare than in Naruto's Sage mode. Sasuke is also faster. The only thing Naruto has over Sasuke really is stamina, amount of chakra and recovery."
- I never came to the conclusion that Sasuke is stronger. I am stating that Sasuke would need Full MS susanoo in order to challenge Naruto. Naruto has become such a master of Sage Mode I believe he can take him on. He can dodge his arrows, as well as Amaterasu, all his abilities have been increased, as well as speed. And when Naruto took down the nine tails, all his clones were in Sage mode. The defense capabilities of susanoo would help him, but against all those giant rasengans naruto can make with his speed + Rasenshuriken, I think sasuke would need some power up.

But remember dude, the rest of the list after KCM---------EMS cannot be confirmed because we haven't seen Sasukes true ability in EMS. However I still do believe EMS=KCM. It makes sense because of the Chronological pattern.

 

[Johndoesknowall]

Initial form is when he just uses kyuubi chakra to enhance his abilities, similar to the battle with neji.

KC V1 is 1 tails - 3 tails. "Cloak #1"
KC V2 is 4 tails - 8 tails. "Cloak #2" - Nagato battled this one, with the Rinnegan, the strongest ocular ability, and he was defeated. Telling me Sasuke can defeat him in this state with MS is naive.

"Also SM is not equal to MS FS. I honestly don't understand how you came to that conclusion Sasuke's Susanoo is stronger, has more defense and attacks are faster to prepare than in Naruto's Sage mode. Sasuke is also faster. The only thing Naruto has over Sasuke really is stamina, amount of chakra and recovery."
- I never came to the conclusion that Sasuke is stronger. I am stating that Sasuke would need Full MS susanoo in order to challenge Naruto. Naruto has become such a master of Sage Mode I believe he can take him on. He can dodge his arrows, as well as Amaterasu, all his abilities have been increased, as well as speed. And when Naruto took down the nine tails, all his clones were in Sage mode. The defense capabilities of susanoo would help him, but against all those giant rasengans naruto can make with his speed + Rasenshuriken, I think sasuke would need some power up.

But remember dude, the rest of the list after KCM---------EMS cannot be confirmed because we haven't seen Sasuke's true ability in EMS. However I still do believe EMS=KCM. It makes sense because of the Chronological pattern.

1st bold: Naruto was about to lose if it weren't for his father to seal the Kurama back in Naruto. He then escaped to the outside of that gigantic boulder in the sky. Also I believe Sasuke at MS is stronger due to the fact he has genjutsu, amaterasu and susanoo. Even if we leave out susanoo, Naruto would lose to Sasuke's genjutsu due to not being teammates with Kurama yet, so he cannot nullify it

2nd Bold: First discredit Naruto fighting Kurama because he went into himself which he can basically defy logic and fly. So him using that many sage kage bunshin is irrelevant. Whatever Naruto does when he enters his mind can not be used in this argument because he is fighting with his mind and not physically. Also I'm not saying he can't do any of that stuff, I'm just saying he has done stuff in his mind that he hasn't done in reality so stating what he can do by what he has done in his mind is a weak, if not a completely irrelevant statement.

I'll agree about not seeing full EMS and not knowing enough about it but from what I see I can comfortably say that it is stronger than KCM.

 

[xxSAGExx]

Hi guys. I'm going to discuss here a little bit of naruto and sasuke, their current powers, and the relation between these powers. Differently from my other threads, I'll try to make it small this time, but I can't guarantee this. Let's go.

We've seen that in the lastest chapter, it seems that sasuke finally took his susanoo to the final lvl, the final PS. His susanoo is like madara's now(the stage of the susanoo).
We know that the PS has enough power to rival the bijuus. What does this mean? It does NOT mean that PS= 1 bijuu, this is a mistaken thought. But it does NOT mean that PS= all bijuus either. It's likely that the PS has the power to face and even beat most bijuus. The PS is most likely beyond the hachibi, as we've seen by feats. Considering the destruction range of the atacks, the PS must be below kurama, but not by far. We've seen that the PS can even a reflected bijuu dama of the kyuubi.
This is sasuke's new power, so we have to keep in mind all the abilities he displayed.
Another thing, sasuke is now "borrowing" juugo's senjutsu power, so that powers up his susanoo even more, as we've seen what the CM can do.

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Naruto, on the other hand, has recently mastered the BM, he mastered the chakra of the kyuubi inside of him(50% kurama). We've seen that naruto BM also can rival the bijuus. He managed to face 5 bijuus together, as we've seen.
Naruto also managed to enter the BSM, he managed to sync the natural energy with kurama's chakra perfectly, entering SM while in BM. So, we apply the SM multipliers to the BM Naruto, and he is now even more powerful.

Spoiler

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For more details, make a quick visit to these 2 threads

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Now, how is the relation between those 2? We've got naruto with his BM and sasuke with his PS, both being powers that rivals the bijuus. Sasuke's PS might reveal itself to be beyond 50% kurama, maybe equal to 100%, but not with what we've seen. Sasuke has the potential to surpass madara, so this might happen, but to have the potential doesn't mean that he is already beyond madara, it means that he can/will, one day, surpass madara. So, for now. Naruto BM= Sasuke PS
Both are also using senjutsu. Naruto is using his SM, sasuke, however, is using the power of juugo's sage transformation. The CM is a version of juugo's sage transformation, which is an incomplete SM. This means that naruto's control over natural energy is bigger. So the PS with juugo is slightly below a PS with an SM user, for exemple.
This puts us with Naruto BSM>/= Sasuke senjutsu PS

So, we've got, for now
Naruto BM(50% kurama)= Sasuke PS
Naruto BM(100% kurama)> Sasuke PS
Naruto BSM(50% kurama)>/= Sasuke senjutsu PS
Naruto BSM(100% kurama)> Sasuke senjutsu PS

As I said, sasuke can still improve his susanoo to take it to full kurama lvl, which would put him as equal to naruto BM 100% kurama. But his PS is new, he has still a lot to master about it. He might also gain another power up(in exchange for juugo's power) that would establish the equality between Naruto BSM(100% kurama) and future sasuke PS.
Thanks for the attention. Again, I wanted to make a small thread, but it didn't work. Sorry for the long post.
Remember, no fanboyism. Make smart repplies. Thanks again.

I have to disagree, Madara said "The Bijuu" have power comparable to PS power which means even the 1 tails has power for that amount of destruction (

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). Yang Kurama matched the power of 5 combined Bijuu's tbb which would be like 5x PS sword would it not? This was after Naruto used up a lot of it's power in the war via 12 clones (

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).

There's also the fact that Madara who has PS still needed full Kurama to try and beat Hashirama. If PS was right below Kurama in power then it would be equal or close to Hashirama's power which it wasn't. Hashirama compared Kurama's chakra to his own (

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) but remember Yang Kurama was low or out of chakra and asked Yin Kurama for chakra so this was like 60%-65% of Kurama's total chakra since Yang Kurama was trying to gather more chakra

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so 100% Kurama has more power than Hashirama.

Don't confuse Hashirama's ability to control and suppress Bijuus using his Wood jutsu and his Wood jutsu being able to absorb Bijuu chakra with power. Kurama has more chakra so has more power because he can put more chakra into an attack for more power. So the fact that Madara needed Kurama puts PS below the some higher ranked Bijuus. You do know Madara controlling Kurama doesn't means he was using Kurama to his full potential right? He was simply making Kurama attack where as a Jinchuuriki focuses the power of the Bijuu.

Yang Kurama is above the 8 tails, Hachi mentions how powerful Yang Kurama's power was while he was in defense mode covering himself to shield from Kurama's and the other Bijuu's tbbs (

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). All of the Bijuus are about the same size, Look at the size of their combined tbb to their body

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Yang Kurama matched that. Now Look at the size full Kurama used (Note Full Kurama would be around the same size as the other Biijuus)

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and

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. Those weren't charged with more power because Madara was just controlling and not focusing the power as a Jin would.

Sasuke is said to have the potential to one day surpass Madara but from Tobirama many comparison of Naruto and his brother, we can see Naruto has the potential to surpass Hashirama. Naruto is even being compared to the Sage by the Bijuus. Sasuke is on Bijuu level but is not even power wise but that's ok, we see Naruto beat chunins and jounins as a genin level, Shikamaru beat Hidan (kage level) as a chunin so Sasuke being on the same level and have his own effective way of fighting is good enough. Naruto is like Goku (main character and dumb a lot of the times) while Sasuke is like Vegeta (was evil, has pride, thinks he should be stronger cause he's an elite/prince of saiyans).

Both times Naruto went BSM, he borrowed chakra from Yin Kurama so he was never at full power. SM doubles BM chakra since you have to balance it with the same amount of natural energy so he would be equal to full Kurama but with the SM enhancement as well. Naruto didn't master his KM, BM or BSM yet, he was training just before the war and never finished, he still not great at his shinshun as Yamato said. Naruto only used it 3x in the war.

 

[Xāvî1]

Well, what did You expect by saying that Sasuke solos a 100% Kurama Naruto?

not to mention senin mode with it