[Discussion] Naruto and Sasuke are equals

[Mr Hiru]

Naruto got friends (Konoha 11, it was his own effort, demonstrated by actions). Sasuke got tools (Hebi/Taka, it was his own effort, capacity to convince).

Naruto got Kurama (against his will), Sasuke got Heavenly Curse Mark (against his will).

Naruto started to demand Kurama's chakra (his own will), Sasuke demanded Heavenly Curse Mark upgrade (his own will).

Naruto created the Fuuton - Rasen Shuriken (tremendous effort, training his wind nature), Sasuke awakened the Mangekyou Sharingan (tremendous effort, defeating Itachi)

Naruto got Sage Mode (his own efforts, incredibly extensive training), Sasuke got Itachi's eyes (his own efforts, he defeated Danzou before this, aside of Team 7 fight).

...and now...

Sasuke is Indra's transmigrant, while Naruto is Ashura's transmigrant (both cases against their respective will)

Sasuke awakened the Rinnegan, while Naruto awakened the Senjutsu of Six Paths (both cases borrowed power)

Naruto relies on the strength given by his friends (which is borrowed power, but his merit is that Naruto has the Body to contain this power), while Sasuke relies in the strength of his own to keep sucking Naruto's friends power (ergo, borrowed power, but his merit is that Sasuke has the mean to absorb power).

---

These facts stated, it is safe to assume that both of them are equals, and there is no sense in discussing how superior is one or the other.

 

[ANiMUS]

Still won't stop the fan war

 

[Varial]

I agree with you.

 

[My Username]

Like your thread would end the fan war

And i disagree because Naruto is stronger

 

[maggioso]

Unnecessary constantly stated fact level: over 9000

 

[Mr Hiru]

didn't read naruto>sasuke

Like your thread would end the fan war

And i disagree because Naruto is stronger

I'm expecting for both of you to come with a reasonable explanation of your claims, because baseless conjecture is not proof at all.

 

[ComplexCity]

When Sasuke called upon the power of the Bijuus while having the Rinnegan and needed them to match Naruto, that "they are equal" crediblity was lost

 

[take it easy]

Naruto got Sage Mode (his own efforts, incredibly extensive training), Sasuke got Itachi's eyes (his own efforts, he defeated Danzou before this, aside of Team 7 fight.)

Stopped reading after this.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Stopped reading after this.

But it is a fact that Sasuke only accepted this power only when he got blind due his MS overuse. He didn't have motive before this.

Edit: Also, he stated that he wanted to crush Naruto will all his power. The motives only appeared after the Team 7 fight. So, as the EMS was the way for this purpose, Sasuke demanded these eyes... and Tobi was the one in charge of the surgery. Well, this again is a way to suck power, nonetheless. But the fact that he got an upgrade in this point remains.

 

[PlatinumTitan]

This is the one of the most reasonable thread about the Naruto/Sasuke fights there is.
Enjoy your reputation man. XD

 

[Chaoz]

I agree in that sense, and in actuality that they are equal. But when you think about equality and mindset, attitude and will there can become a handicap or an advantage. In this evident case, of course....as we know and as stated by Naruto, he is not attempting to kill Sasuke, and seems to be only blocking, blow for blow. While i believe it can be argued that Sasuke is in killing intent or not.. its arguable, but he's been on the offensive almost the entire time so i will postulate that he is trying to kill Naruto, whether he wants to or not, since hes shown discernible emotional turmoil in his facial features.

but basically, their difference in attitude handicaps naruto and even if he was superior and would beat sasuke, this puts them on a fairer playing field as well. just suggesting another factor

 

[Gerkak]

They were equal before, but not any more the manga makes this clear. Having the same number of power ups does not make their power equal

 

[take it easy]

But it is a fact that Sasuke only accepted this power only when he got blind due his MS overuse. He didn't have motive before this.

Ok .

 

[Mr Hiru]

I agree in that sense, and in actuality that they are equal. But when you think about equality and mindset, attitude and will there can become a handicap or an advantage. In this evident case, of course....as we know and as stated by Naruto, he is not attempting to kill Sasuke, and seems to be only blocking, blow for blow. While i believe it can be argued that Sasuke is in killing intent or not.. its arguable, but he's been on the offensive almost the entire time so i will postulate that he is trying to kill Naruto, whether he wants to or not, since hes shown discernible emotional turmoil in his facial features.

but basically, their difference in attitude handicaps naruto and even if he was superior and would beat sasuke, this puts them on a fairer playing field as well. just suggesting another factor

They were equal before, but not any more the manga makes this clear. Having the same number of power ups does not make their power equal

Sensible opinions, I see. In fact, I agree. This is something I touched in other thread before. Let me quote myself.

The point of view of the word defeat doesn't reduce to be bested in terms of power. That's a narrow minded way to see it. Moreover, it's wrong.

People knows that Naruto speaks in terms of fulfilling his wish and promise to bring Sasuke back to the village. A true defeat from Naruto would have been one in which he convinced Sasuke to stop his revenge. But Sasuke was blind... in all senses.

So, my humble opinion is that reducing all the discussion to argumentation with only power as the only variable in the game is absurd.

Naruto, in his own terms, NEVER defeated Sasuke after the last one became nukenin. Naruto will only defeat him when he turns hatred into love. Due the same reason, Sasuke has never defeated Naruto in Naruto's terms... because Sasuke has never been able to break Naruto's will to save him.

That's why I think you catch my drift when I say that, under Naruto's perspective, he needs "practically" to overwhelm Sasuke, but they are equal in terms of power at this rate. Naruto's objective is incredibly more difficult than Sasuke's.

It's unfair to say that Sasuke defeats Naruto only because Naruto can't keep fighting, when in reality, the objective of each one is quite different.

...if these two are equal in terms of power, the handicap is set by the objective of each individual. Sasuke can just kill Naruto and end of story... but Naruto needs to capture him alive, or convince him... this is something else.

Naruto is not fighting because he wants, he is defending himself while trying to convince Sasuke. This said...

...let's be frank. I know that, if Naruto kills Sasuke, Sasuke fans will just say that Naruto lost because he could not save Sasuke. They would never accept that 'Sasuke was soloed'. All I say is that the concept of defeat under Sasuke's eyes is completely different and easier that Naruto's concept of defeat.

The thing is quite easy, right now. If The Last were canon... well... both Naruto and Sasuke will lose this battle.

I'm feeling like Sasuke won't kill Naruto (Sasuke is defeated in this perspective) but Naruto also won't change Sasuke (Naruto is defeated in this perspective).

In terms of strength, both are equals. There is no practical way to deny this.

So, you would understand that this thread is focused in the powerups and the sources for these powers. It is not focused in the objectives of both parties (they are quite different, so there is no point in comparing them).

Come on, they even went fighting with taijutsu... none of them had strength left. Kurama is being countered by Sasuke's Rinnegan. It's common sense in terms of power.

 

[Chaoz]

Sensible opinions, I see. In fact, I agree. This is something I touched in other thread before. Let me quote myself.







So, you would understand that this thread is focused in the powerups and the sources for these powers. It is not focused in the objectives of both parties (they are quite different, so there is no point in comparing them).

i agree with everything here, well written. But i'll keep the two separate, i didn't know about the other thread and just wanted to bring up a point.

 

[1Told]

agree nice thread OP!

 

[Liquid Snake]

Naruto is stronger u give Naruto the bijuu chakra like sasuke in recent chapters and give sasuke the bijuu to even tho it's impossible but if they both are maxed out Naruto stomps because he would have all bijuu and then can still add senjutsu like he did which would have destroyed sasuke plus after the clash he would have enough power to finish sasuke also Naruto could have absorbed more senjutsu while sasuke was out of chakra but he chose to fight in base his clones could have absorbed senjutsu while he himself and only one or two clones blitzed sasuke

 

[Mr Hiru]

Naruto is stronger u give Naruto the bijuu chakra like sasuke in recent chapters and give sasuke the bijuu to even tho it's impossible but if they both are maxed out Naruto stomps because he would have all bijuu and then can still add senjutsu like he did which would have destroyed sasuke plus after the clash he would have enough power to finish sasuke also Naruto could have absorbed more senjutsu while sasuke was out of chakra but he chose to fight in base his clones could have absorbed senjutsu while he himself and only one or two clones blitzed sasuke

Your logic is flawed due one reason: Sasuke has the capacity to absorb chakra.

Your point holds only because Naruto can ask for power (which is, to borrow power).

But Sasuke can forcefully steal power (which is, to borrow power).

As both parties borrow power (different ways to do, but the nature of the action being the same), they are equals in this point. Both of them have a way to ask for power. This is an undeniable fact.

Now, if you want proof...

Let's get in the scenario where Naruto have more chakra than Sasuke (which is, of course, quite like your argument). What would happen?

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My case rests.

 

[Milojko]

He got curse mark aganist his will , but after fight on rooftops he go to Orochimaru voluntarily.

 

[Mr Hiru]

He got curse mark aganist his will , but after fight on rooftops he go to Orochimaru voluntarily.

Naruto got Kurama (against his will), Sasuke got Heavenly Curse Mark (against his will).

Naruto started to demand Kurama's chakra (his own will), Sasuke demanded Heavenly Curse Mark upgrade (his own will).

Exactly, that's a fact. I only wrote it in a different manner.