Conditions: All characters are War Arc, Minato and Tobirama are both Edos without regeneration. We'll also assume that Tobirama has one fodder Chunin level Edo summon Intel: Manga Location: Juubito fight Restrictions: Kurama's Chakra for Naruto and Minato. Toad summons other than Ma and Pa
Scenario 2: Minato already has Naruto tagged and tagged Kunai spread around
Honestly not sure what Tobirama has going for him in regards to dispatching Boss Sized Summons other than Gojo, but SM Naruto and Base Minato both get raped if they try to tango with him in CQC. Tobirama literally outperformed KCM Minato in every way with a mere clone.
Honestly not sure what Tobirama has going for him in regards to dispatching Boss Sized Summons other than Gojo, but SM Naruto and Base Minato both get raped if they try to tango with him in CQC. Tobirama literally outperformed KCM Minato in every way with a mere clone.
Honestly not sure what Tobirama has going for him in regards to dispatching Boss Sized Summons other than Gojo, but SM Naruto and Base Minato both get raped if they try to tango with him in CQC. Tobirama literally outperformed KCM Minato in every way with a mere clone.
Ma and Pa could be dangerous due to Frog Song and Frog Call, but other than that, I can't really see the use for them considering they haven't been entirely useful in CQC other than throwing smoke bombs which is ineffective against a highly skilled sensor like Tobirama.
If people are gonna hype tobirama's reaction feat so much then what about naruto's reaction feat against same jubito. He has better feat since he had to make a chakra arm and then tag minato with it who was quite a bit away from him. And what about speed difference between minato and tobirama? Minato is faster by feats, doesn't that balance out the so called godly reactions? Minato wins this alone, Put in SM naruto and it becomes mid diff fight.
And it appears discussions here on NB are clouding people's judgement of manga. Minato also reacted to same jubito's surprise attack from underground. I know tobirama has better reactions but minato has better speed. So i don't see how tobirama has the edge here. Since minato has better ftg usage as well.
If people are gonna hype tobirama's reaction feat so much then what about naruto's reaction feat against same jubito. He has better feat since he had to make a chakra arm and then tag minato with it who was quite a bit away from him. And what about speed difference between minato and tobirama? Minato is faster by feats, doesn't that balance out the so called godly reactions? Minato wins this alone, Put in SM naruto and it becomes mid diff fight.
This has been addressed multiple times. Juubito's Gudoudama extension is by no means fast due to the fact that Hiruzen physically reacted to it. KCM Naruto can't react to Juubito's speed, not when he was completely dumbfounded when Juubito speed-blitzed the Kages and needed Sage Mode on top of a superior Kurama Form just to even react to Juubito.
Minato's physically faster in terms of Shunshin, but Tobirama is above him in everything else by feats due to his ability to react to Juubito while Minato stood there completely dumbfounded the entire time. The whole "god-like" reactions for Minato is totally baseless. He's not the "Yellow Flash" because of his reflexes, but because of his usage of Hiraishin which is also stated in the Databook. You'd be better off debating whether or not Raikage had better reactions than Tobirama as opposed to Minato honestly.
This has been addressed multiple times. Juubito's Gudoudama extension is by no means fast due to the fact that Hiruzen physically reacted to it. KCM Naruto can't react to Juubito's speed, not when he was completely dumbfounded when Juubito speed-blitzed the Kages and needed Sage Mode on top of a superior Kurama Form just to even react to Juubito.
Minato's physically faster in terms of Shunshin, but Tobirama is above him in everything else by feats due to his ability to react to Juubito while Minato stood there completely dumbfounded the entire time. The whole "god-like" reactions for Minato is totally baseless. He's not the "Yellow Flash" because of his reflexes, but because of his usage of Hiraishin which is also stated in the Databook. You'd be better off debating whether or not Raikage had better reactions than Tobirama as opposed to Minato honestly.
Well tobirama lost half of his body reacting while naruto didn't. And hiruzen only reacted due to long range attack. He didn't react when obito closed in at all. Obito had his hand on naruto's head. Doesn't that change anything? And it's not like tobirama was tracking obito or anything lol. He has that one feat in which he lost half his body. And unlike naruto and minato who were hit by a surprise attack tobirama was ready for obito at that time.
And that was my whole point. I admitted tobirama has better reactions but difference isn't a gulf and minato's better shunshin makes up for it. And what are you talking about in bold? Minato wasn't attacked, tobirama was. So what did you expect minato to do. Tobirama got luky that Obito wasn't in control of jubi otherwise you wouldn't have been making this argument to begin with. And minato has better use of hirashin so i don't see how tobirama bests him overall..
About raikage i think these guys are in same tier in reactions tobirama, Ay, minato.
Well tobirama lost half of his body reacting while naruto didn't. And hiruzen only reacted due to long range attack. He didn't react when obito closed in at all. Obito had his hand on naruto's head. Doesn't that change anything? And it's not like tobirama was tracking obito or anything lol. He has that one feat in which he lost half his body. And unlike naruto and minato who were hit by a surprise attack tobirama was ready for obito at that time.
How does getting sliced in half discredit the fact that he reacted to Juubito's Shunshin and tagged him before getting sliced in half while KCM Naruto and KCM Minato were completely oblivious until after Tobirama was sliced in half ? Had they been in the same situation, then they would've been blitzed with no reaction.
That's false, Hiruzen reacted to the Gudoudama after it extended, but if it were really as fast as you were claiming it to be, EMS Sasuke w/ his Susano'o (which impedes mobility) wouldn't have managed to out-maneuver and intercept the attack with ease. I don't necessarily care whether or not he reacted to it point-blank, the fact that he couldn't even react to Juubito's Shunshin prior to that the way Tobirama could implied that reacting to the Gudoudama's extension at point-blank range is significantly easier than reacting to his Shunshin.
And that was my whole point. I admitted tobirama has better reactions but difference isn't a gulf and minato's better shunshin makes up for it. And what are you talking about in bold? Minato wasn't attacked, tobirama was. So what did you expect minato to do. Tobirama got luky that Obito wasn't in control of jubi otherwise you wouldn't have been making this argument to begin with. And minato has better use of hirashin so i don't see how tobirama bests him overall..
About raikage i think these guys are in same tier in reactions tobirama, Ay, minato.
How does Shunshin matter here? Tobirama has no issues reacting to Minato's Shunshin, Shunshin is rendered useless in close combat, and his superior reaction speed is going to give him an advantage in CQC considering Tobirama has superior reaction time, superior body movement for evasion and attacking, superior sensory ability, and superior taijutsu skill in general through competing with Izuna. Obito easily outclassed KCM Naruto despite the disadvantages in Shunshin speed, so clearly Shunshin speed isn't going to nullify the disparity there is between both FTG users.
Doesn't matter if Obito was mindless. This is just flat out desperation. KCM Naruto and KCM Minato couldn't react to Mindless Juubito's Shunshin while Tobirama could. Doesn't matter if he was mindless because Tobirama performed better against the same individual.
The only thing Minato has going for him is superior usage of FTG, but he's literally outclassed in every single way.
How does getting sliced in half discredit the fact that he reacted to Juubito's Shunshin and tagged him before getting sliced in half while KCM Naruto and KCM Minato were completely oblivious until after Tobirama was sliced in half ? Had they been in the same situation, then they would've been blitzed with no reaction.
That's false, Hiruzen reacted to the Gudoudama after it extended, but if it were really as fast as you were claiming it to be, EMS Sasuke w/ his Susano'o (which impedes mobility) wouldn't have managed to out-maneuver and intercept the attack with ease. I don't necessarily care whether or not he reacted to it point-blank, the fact that he couldn't even react to Juubito's Shunshin prior to that the way Tobirama could implied that reacting to the Gudoudama's extension at point-blank range is significantly easier than reacting to his Shunshin.
How does Shunshin matter here? Tobirama has no issues reacting to Minato's Shunshin, Shunshin is rendered useless in close combat, and his superior reaction speed is going to give him an advantage in CQC considering Tobirama has superior reaction time, superior body movement for evasion and attacking, superior sensory ability, and superior taijutsu skill in general through competing with Izuna. Obito easily outclassed KCM Naruto despite the disadvantages in Shunshin speed, so clearly Shunshin speed isn't going to nullify the disparity there is between both FTG users.
Doesn't matter if Obito was mindless. This is just flat out desperation. KCM Naruto and KCM Minato couldn't react to Mindless Juubito's Shunshin while Tobirama could. Doesn't matter if he was mindless because Tobirama performed better against the same individual.
The only thing Minato has going for him is superior usage of FTG, but he's literally outclassed in every single way.
@bold 1 proof?
EMS sasuke again reacted to godudama from a distance not point blank.
No proof that reacting to Gudoudama is easier than reacting to shunshin but it's common sense i know that's why i said tobirama has a bit of edge in reaction but not much.
@bold 2, again proof? jus because he fought izuna he somehow has better taijutsu now? guess what minato fought and beat obito so doesn't that mean anything? I am pretty sure obito is more dangerous than izuna or so it has been portrayed. Obito had S/T jutsu while naruto didn't. Here both minato and tobirama have S/T and minato has superior one. Plus obito had sharingan which makes shunshin almost useless unless difference is enormous.
Doesn't matter if obito was mindless? lol tobirama was able to pull that feat off because obito was mindless.. let me show you something.
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Here minato reacted to a surprise attack from same jubito without losing half of his body. You take into consideration that it was surprise attack from underground while tobirama was ready for obito. And it becomes clear that minato isn't that far behind in reactions as you think.
And about CQC. it's literally impossible for these two characters to engage in cqc. Coz if they do, they both get tagged by each other and once that happens it's 50/50 but guess what who has better usage of hirashin?
here i'll show you these scans.
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hirashin with clones is slower that means one person can be slower than other in using hirashin. I know teleportation is instant but using a jutsu is not. It requires chakra build up and minato has been portrayed to have better chakra control.
Now i want you to interpret this scan for me. Was he talking about shunshin or is it about hirashin? In both cases it becomes relevant. Coz if this is hirashin than minato wins by default. And if it is shunshin then minato has not a little but huge advantage in shunshin. If you can get your hands on viz translation than it'll be great help.
The team wins in both scenarios. Once kunai are spread around Gojo can be dodged by Minato and Naruto, and Tobirama isn't going to beat both of them with just Hiraishin and Suiton.
