Naruto and Kurama's strength

JUICEMON GENESIS · Apr 21, 2013

This question has been plaguing Daisy’s mind for ages. . .

WHY are Naruto and Kurama so much more powerful than the other 8 Jinchuuriki and Tailed beasts? I mean the 7 Tailed beasts (barring Shukaku the One Tail) were all relatively close in strength. Killer Bee and Gyuuki were a bit stronger and had a bit of a larger power difference, but I just figured it was due to the other 5 Tailed Beasts being manipulated by Obito. But Naruto and Kurama. . . I mean HOLY F**K, BRO!!!!! How on the Ten Tails' green earth are Naruto and Kurama SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more powerful than all the other Jinchuuriki and Tailed Beasts??? I know he's supposed to be the strongest tailed beast (barring the Ten tails, of course. . .), but just the sheer difference in power between Killer Bee and Naruto and Gyuuki and Kurama. . . It just doesn't make sense. . .

Now here's Daisy’s Analysis. . .

Now I have analyzed this information over and over and can't seem to come to a conclusion. . . How is Naruto able to achieve that unique form. . . And just WHY is he SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much stronger than Killer Bee??? If you look at Gyuuki and Chomei or Gyuuki and Saiken, you can see that Gyuuki is stronger, but not by leaps and bounds. . . And that is even farther proven when Gyuuki went up against Kokuou. But in Naruto and Kurama's case, their power is in a totally different universe!!! How is such an imperfect transformation powerful enough to completely punk all other Tailed Beasts and Jinchuuriki???

And although this is purely fan speculation, he supposedly still only has HALF of Kurama's chakra. . . Now I personally believe that this string of data becomes insufficient once Orochimaru causes the Etherial Reaper of the Eternal Reaper Death Seal to commit Seppuku and free all the trapped souls and other manifestations that were previously sealed and residing in its bowels. HOWEVER, If I count this information as truth, then that means Naruto and Kurama have the potential to become EVEN STRONGER!!!!! I mean. . . WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K???

Now I love the little guy and all, but I just CAN'T understand how his power leveling system works. . . I just can't see how as a normal Jinchuuriki, he is leaps and bounds stronger than his bretheren at (supposedly) only HALF STRENGTH! I mean HOW?????

Daisy just doesn't understand. . .

Domo Genesis · Apr 21, 2013

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=11262570" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-11262570">JUICEMON GENESIS said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent"> This question has been plaguing <span style="color: #FF8C00"><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="font-family: 'Georgia'"><b>Daisy’s</b></span></span></span> mind for ages. . .<br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 18px"><b>WHY</b></span> are Naruto and Kurama so much more powerful than the other 8 Jinchuuriki and Tailed beasts? I mean the 7 Tailed beasts (barring Shukaku the One Tail) were all relatively close in strength. Killer Bee and Gyuuki were a bit stronger and had a bit of a larger power difference, but I just figured it was due to the other 5 Tailed Beasts being manipulated by Obito. But Naruto and Kurama. . . I mean <b>HOLY F**K, BRO!!!!! </b> <span style="font-size: 15px"><b>How on the Ten Tails' green earth are Naruto and Kurama SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more powerful than all the other Jinchuuriki and Tailed Beasts???</b></span> I know he's supposed to be the strongest tailed beast (barring the Ten tails, of course. . .), but just the sheer difference in power between Killer Bee and Naruto and Gyuuki and Kurama. . . It just doesn't make sense. . .<br /> <br /> Now here's <span style="color: #FF8C00"><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="font-family: 'Georgia'"><b>Daisy’s</b></span></span></span> Analysis. . .<br /> <br /> <div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px"> <div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px"><input type="button" value="ANALYSIS" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;background: #fff; font-family: Verdana;" onClick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = ''; this.innerText = ''; this.value = 'Hide'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = 'none'; this.innerText = ''; this.value = 'ANALYSIS'; }"> </div> <div style="background: no-repeat right bottom #e2e2e2; margin: 0px; padding: 6px; border: 1px inset;"> <div style="display: none;"> Now Tailed Beast mode is the form of a Jinchuuriki when he/she uses the power of the Tailed Beast sealed within him/her. Now, let's look at Naruto for a minute. . .<br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> Now in this image, Naruto has his standard Nine Tails Chakra Cloak. At this time, Naruto hadn't tamed Kurama and his malevolent will ran wild. Whenever he got an intense fit of rage or was in an intense situation in which he had to utilize power that surpassed his own, he would enter this form.<br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> And this is Nine Tails Chakra Cloak: Version 2: 6 Tails. He enters Version 2 if the situation gets too intense and Kurama's grudging will completely overtook Naruto and suppressed his own will.<br /> <br /> Now my curiosity turns once Da Rappin' Killer Bee enters the picture and trains Naruto to tame Kurama. Now once Naruto tames Kurama, he robs Kurama of a good portion of his chakra. Now I was expecting Naruto to come out looking like he did in the past, coated in the usual Nine Tails Cloak Version 1. . . HOWEVER, He came out looking like THIS<br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> Now don't get me wrong, I think he looks epic, but my initial reaction was just. . . WHAT??? I was expecting something like. . .<br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> But instead got <br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> Now I pondered this for a while. . . Thinking that there <b>MUST</b> be a reason for this. <span style="font-size: 15px"><b>THEN IT HIT ME!!!</b></span><br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div><br /> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> Naruto STOLE Kurama's chakra, so he isn't synchronize with the fox, but just utilizing borrowed power!!! So I was ok with it!. . . UNTIL. . .<br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> THIS moment when Naruto and Kurama teamed up! Naruto released Kurama from the cage and melded their chakra together to achieve full Host Transformation. Now at THIS moment, I believed that Naruto was finally about to achieve his perfect Jinchuuriki Host transformation. . . So I was FULLY prepared to see<br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> But instead got. . .<br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> -_-<br /> <br /> Now THIS <span style="font-size: 18px"><u><b>REALLY</b></u></span> put me off. . . Naruto and Kurama were now SHARING chakra and were now a symbiotic unit. This should mean that they could achieve PERFECT Host Transformation. . . I mean just look at Killer Bee<br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div><br /> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div><br /> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div><br /> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div><br /> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div><br /> Now Killer Bee is in FULL control of Gyuuki's power. However, once he uses Tailed Beast Mode, he actually shrouds himself in the Eight Tails Chakra Cloak, goes Version 2, Can achieve Partial Host Transformations, AND go into a FULL Host Transformation. Now why can't Naruto??? <span style="color: #FF8C00"><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="font-family: 'Georgia'"><b>Daisy</b></span></span></span> just doesn't understand. . .<br /><br /> </div> </div> </div><br /> <br /> Now I have analyzed this information over and over and can't seem to come to a conclusion. . . How is Naruto able to achieve that unique form. . . And just WHY is he SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much stronger than Killer Bee??? If you look at Gyuuki and Chomei or Gyuuki and Saiken, you can see that Gyuuki is stronger, but not by leaps and bounds. . . And that is even farther proven when Gyuuki went up against Kokuou. But in Naruto and Kurama's case, their power is in a totally different universe!!! How is such an imperfect transformation powerful enough to completely punk all other Tailed Beasts and Jinchuuriki???<br /> <br /> And although this is purely fan speculation, he <b>supposedly</b> still only has <span style="color: #FF0000"><b>HALF</b></span> of Kurama's chakra. . . Now I personally believe that this string of data becomes insufficient once Orochimaru causes the Etherial Reaper of the Eternal Reaper Death Seal to commit Seppuku and free all the trapped souls and other manifestations that were previously sealed and residing in its bowels. HOWEVER, If I count this information as truth, then that means Naruto and Kurama have the potential to become <span style="font-size: 18px"><b>EVEN STRONGER!!!!!</b></span> I mean. . . <span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: #FF0000"><b>WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K???</b></span></span><br /> <br /> Now I love the little guy and all, but I just CAN'T understand how his power leveling system works. . . I just can't see how as a normal Jinchuuriki, he is leaps and bounds stronger than his bretheren at (supposedly) only HALF STRENGTH! I mean <span style="font-size: 18px"><b>HOW?????</b></span><br /> <br /> <span style="color: #FF8C00"><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="font-family: 'Georgia'"><b>Daisy</b></span></span></span> just doesn't understand. . . </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink"><a>Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>I'm gonna guess its because its the karuma is strong already and plus they have naruto who has great jutsu and them being together can make smarter decisions. Oh and sorry if I sound kinda dumb because of my grammar.</div>

FreakensteinAG · Apr 21, 2013

For the sake of consistency with how tailed beasts have played out, it took Toad Boss to suppress the Ichibi, while two Akatsuki members were required to deal with the Nibi. I believe that the progression of tails in tailed beasts represent a Logarithmic increase in raw power.

Furthermore, while it is true that Bee and Gyuki were stronger than Naruto at first, this is because Naruto did not have all the power that Kurama could have given him. Remember back when Naruto met his mother and they together suppressed the Kyubi so he could obtain Chakra Mode. He took a portion, but the Kyubi was still there, hinting there was still a bunch of chakra Naruto could have obtained. Now that the two are buddy-buddy, Kurama is more willing to confer his full strength to Naruto, hinting at Naruto's complete chakra form.

While Gyuki is the 8 tails and is second-most-powerful, if the chakra scale is logarithmic, it makes sense as to why the Naruto-Kurama combination is strongest. Perhaps it also stands to reason that, because Naruto is an Uzumaki and thus has so much more chakra to throw around and use as support, can dish out more power than Bee-Gyuki.

The Necromancer · Apr 21, 2013

It's plot. The only other reason would be that naruto is uzumaki, and that uzumaki have a special relationship with the beasts because of the Sage's lineage or something. That or the Sage put part of his soul into kurama in order to empower him or some asspull like that.

madara7uchiha · Apr 21, 2013

kyubi FTW....

Neonian · Apr 21, 2013

Simple.

It's Kishi's story, he tells it how he wants.

nymbabsy · Apr 21, 2013

A little bit true,but you see the power difference so distant because you underestimate bee. And we all know that the only things naruto got from kyubi are speed,chakra and tbb,others are due to his previous achievements

Arsenicpop · Apr 21, 2013

Somewhere they stated each tail beast is stronger than the last. like 1<2< 3<4<5<6<7<8<9

Not sure what issue that was in exactly.

Xlad · Apr 21, 2013

Maybe it's that damn Torii Seal that Naruto replaces the Eight Trigrams Seal with. Kurama did acknowledge that as something the SO6P possession. That may be the reason for the markings. This is just like why Sasuke showed MS instead of EMS.

You shouldn't underestimate Killer Bee however, for he has better Tailed Beast control than Naruto tbh.

JUICEMON GENESIS · Apr 21, 2013

FreakensteinAG said:
For the sake of consistency with how tailed beasts have played out, it took Toad Boss to suppress the Ichibi, while two Akatsuki members were required to deal with the Nibi. I believe that the progression of tails in tailed beasts represent a Logarithmic increase in raw power.

Furthermore, while it is true that Bee and Gyuki were stronger than Naruto at first, this is because Naruto did not have all the power that Kurama could have given him. Remember back when Naruto met his mother and they together suppressed the Kyubi so he could obtain Chakra Mode. He took a portion, but the Kyubi was still there, hinting there was still a bunch of chakra Naruto could have obtained. Now that the two are buddy-buddy, Kurama is more willing to confer his full strength to Naruto, hinting at Naruto's complete chakra form.

While Gyuki is the 8 tails and is second-most-powerful, if the chakra scale is logarithmic, it makes sense as to why the Naruto-Kurama combination is strongest. Perhaps it also stands to reason that, because Naruto is an Uzumaki and thus has so much more chakra to throw around and use as support, can dish out more power than Bee-Gyuki.

I guess I can see what you mean. However, I don't really consider Shukaku's power to be it's true power, simply because of the inconsistant power scale shift from part 1 tp part 2. But your overall analysis seems pretty accurate.

but my only statement against it was the deal with the Tailed beasts when they fought with Obito. They all seemed roughly the same strength, with their power difference being EXTREMELY subtle due to Obito's control. And Gyuuki and Killer Bee didn't seem THAT much stronger. . . I undeerstand all of your points and it sounds incredibly logical, but I just can't see it. . .

Necromancer4276 said:
It's plot. The only other reason would be that naruto is uzumaki, and that uzumaki have a special relationship with the beasts because of the Sage's lineage or something. That or the Sage put part of his soul into kurama in order to empower him or some asspull like that.

Yeah. . . That sounds like something Kishi would pull. . . IZAMANI ANYONE???

Trippy Sage of all Dank · Apr 21, 2013

Naruto is the reincarnation of the so6p imo. I believe this because of the 6 whisker marks he had at birth PRIOR to having kurama sealed into him. Plus he was a baby that could handle the strongest tailed beast being sealed into him. (due to Uzumaki blood AND/OR being the reincarnation of sage of six paths)

AND the fact that his bijuu transformation is unique and is somewhat similar to the actual so6p's silhouette (in flashbacks) further supports this idea.

JUICEMON GENESIS · Apr 21, 2013

Arsenicpop said:
Somewhere they stated each tail beast is stronger than the last. like 1<2< 3<4<5<6<7<8<9

Not sure what issue that was in exactly.

It's not an issue. I just don't understand why all other Tailed Beasts and Jinchuuriki are extremely close in strength, with the progression of tails delegating the power scale of the bunch. And then we look at Naruto an Kurama and their power is like looking at Base Goku vs Super Saiyan 4 Goku. . . It's absolutely ludicrous, bro. . .

Naruto D Luffy · Apr 21, 2013

Nice thread

TheSiege · Apr 21, 2013

It's true teamwork. If you look at the other tailed beasts thu just switch off forms. Bijou Mode is the perfect balance between beast and jinchuriki

JUICEMON GENESIS · Apr 21, 2013

TheSiege said:
It's true teamwork. If you look at the other tailed beasts thu just switch off forms. Bijou Mode is the perfect balance between beast and jinchuriki

I HIGHLY doubt that. If that were the case, then Killer Bee would be just as powerful. . .

Xlad · Apr 21, 2013

Well, Tailed Beasts with Jinchuurikis are stronger than Tailed Beasts alone. Naruto was already powerful as Kurama noted. Him merging his arsenal with Kurama's own is a powerful house to begin with. He didn't take out all the Tailed Beasts by himself. He only took out 3 of them while Killer Bee took out the other two.

Mystery God · Apr 21, 2013

They cannot achieve full transformation like bee because Minato sealed yin portion of Kurama's chakra. Now when i say this i don't mean that when Kurama will get this part of his chakra back he will get stronger, but will get a couple of new abilities. I speculated this because i think that yin chakra and yang chakra have different purposes, not the same.

Onion Soda · Apr 21, 2013

Some people say that naruto isn't using the tb chakra like the other jinchurikis. Jinchurikis use the tb chakra while the beast feeds on the user chakra. Naruto seems to mix that chakra with his own, add the fact that he is a chakra monster even without kurama and you will see other reasons for the difference.

JUICEMON GENESIS · Apr 21, 2013

Onion Soda said:
Some people say that naruto isn't using the tb chakra like the other jinchurikis. Jinchurikis use the tb chakra while the beast feeds on the user chakra. Naruto seems to mix that chakra with his own, add the fact that he is a chakra monster even without kurama and you will see other reasons for the difference.

That may be true, but my only valid counter to that is Killer Bee. . . He and Gyuuki the Eight Tails are doing the exact same thing, and yet THEIR Host Transformation is a flesh & blood Transformation. That's half my arguement.

nymbabsy said:
A little bit true,but you see the power difference so distant because you underestimate bee. And we all know that the only things naruto got from kyubi are speed,chakra and tbb,others are due to his previous achievements

Onion Soda's @BOLD portion & @Nymbabsy's ENTIRE comment: I FULLY understand THAT portion of Naruto's power. I'm solely talking about his Tailed Beast Powers. The ludicrous speed, the Chakra based Host Transformation, the STUPIDLY HUGE Tailed Beast Bomb that rivaled the full [power Tailed Beast bombs of 5 of his fellow Jinchuriki bretheren, DELEGATION OF TAILED BEAST CHAKRA TO OTHER INDIVIDUALS (I REALLY don't like that ability), and the fact that he's SUPPOSEDLY only running on half of Kurama's Chakra. The fact that he can fire off Rasengans, Rasenshurikens, and make Shadow Clones is not a big deal to me as I figured he would be able to do that anyway in a V1 or V2 Chakra Cloak.

Mystery God said:
They cannot achieve full transformation like bee because Minato sealed yin portion of Kurama's chakra. Now when i say this i don't mean that when Kurama will get this part of his chakra back he will get stronger, but will get a couple of new abilities. I speculated this because i think that yin chakra and yang chakra have different purposes, not the same.

Yeah. . . You may be right on that note. We'll have to wait and see once Kishi swiches back to the battlefield.

JUICEMON GENESIS · Apr 21, 2013

BlastIt said:
Well, Tailed Beasts with Jinchuurikis are stronger than Tailed Beasts alone. Naruto was already powerful as Kurama noted. Him merging his arsenal with Kurama's own is a powerful house to begin with. He didn't take out all the Tailed Beasts by himself. He only took out 3 of them while Killer Bee took out the other two.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. ^_^ Now I do agree with you there. That is kinda where my argument hits a standstill. I already know that Naruto's power with Kurama;s help would be devastating. However, I'm really trying to figure out how Naruto got the chakra shroud that we see now instead of a flesh & blood Host Trans formation. And even with his arsenal being fused with Kurama's, the base ammount of power that Kurama alone is giving him is just plain ludicrous. And I see this in no other Jinchuuriki. THAT's where my questions are stemming from.

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