[Discussion] Naruto... abit of a mess?

[CasualMisfit]

DISCLAIMER
Although I believe in freedom of expression... I don't want this thread to turn into a flame war or a fanboy/girl soapbox... I am merely making an observation from an objective stand point! If you do not agree with me... or even take offence... please express this in a sensible manner! So as the prefix signifies... LET'S DISCUSS.​

Right... I personally feel that since Naruto defeated Pein... things have well... got abit messy... Why I say this is Kishi's style is often airtight and has a sense of coherence... composure... w/e... But lately there has been a MASS introduction of characters and their appearances seem awfully random and spontaneous...

Also I'd like to refer to the pace of the story.

We have witnessed Naruto gaining control of his Kyubii chakra... following this, we have Kisame do his thing. After this is concluded... We witness Konan vs Madara... Immediately after we are shown Madara's new look... and sudden appearance of Kisame's intel... We then return to the island (at what I presume to be a short time after Kisame got his info out)... With everyone making plans to move location.

Now my question here is... Chronologically... what the hell is going on... I'll assume Konan vs Madara was happening during the time Naruto was gaining his powers or during Kisame's escape attempt... But this doesn't explain how quickly the intel was retrieved by the remaining Akatsuki...

Oki! I know I risk being known as Narutobase's "Grumpy Old Git" and I do nit pick... but I just have this sense of randomness that is out of character for Kishi...

bleh so much ranting
My main point here is... the plot is bouncing all over the place... Have you noticed? If so/if not... how do you feel about it?

 

[The White Fang of Konoha]

The plot seems to have some elements long in the works, and some are being forced. I agree with this, the question is if the now-introduced concepts was planned to be like this to emphasize the war-time chaos and will have time to mature, or Kishi is rushing to end the series after planning it out so well thus far.

 

[Hammy120290]

The plot isnt messy if you keep track.

I mean after he defeated Pein logically Madara had to act quickly in obtaining more paths and also declaring the 3rd Shinobi War.

So after Pein died basically Madara had to step up and get things moving...hence why the plot has went into what I like to call (NO FILLER MODE) and basically every week a new element of history is revealed or new info on Madara, Zetsu the Kyuubi etc etc is revealed.

Naruto is at the stage were Kishi, I think, is setting us up for a huge WTF! as hes giving us so much info each week thats a bit WOW but thats what I guess anyway by the end of this year Kishi is gonna reveal something VERY BIG.

Anyway the plot being messy is just part of the way the story has become because Naruto needs to get powerful faster, Madara needs to complete his plans faster, Sasuke needs to get more powerful faster etc.

 

[CasualMisfit]

The plot isnt messy if you keep track.

I mean after he defeated Pein logically Madara had to act quickly in obtaining more paths and also declaring the 3rd Shinobi War.

So after Pein died basically Madara had to step up and get things moving...hence why the plot has went into what I like to call (NO FILLER MODE) and basically every week a new element of history is revealed or new info on Madara, Zetsu the Kyuubi etc etc is revealed.

Naruto is at the stage were Kishi, I think, is setting us up for a huge WTF! as hes giving us so much info each week thats a bit WOW but thats what I guess anyway by the end of this year Kishi is gonna reveal something VERY BIG.

Anyway the plot being messy is just part of the way the story has become because Naruto needs to get powerful faster, Madara needs to complete his plans faster, Sasuke needs to get more powerful faster etc.

It's not so much that I find it being hard to follow... as it is lacking a fluid consistency... It seems messy in the way that it is told... not so much what is happening... it is indeed war time and things will be accelerated... It simply seems to be lacking a fluid way of telling the story...

Also maybe even throwing TOO much information at us in such short spaces of time... and like I said... it's flittering too much between locations and characters... Not that there is anything particularly wrong with that... I just notice a shift in Kishi's story telling... as he never did this so consistently... and I don't think it suits him...

My personal opinion... I think it should be told from Naruto's perspective as often as possible... It puts us more in the shoes of the titular protagonist... helping us share his feelings...

Example... I think most of us have sussed out that Gaara will have his rematch with an undead Deidara...

I personally think it would have been far more dramatic, exciting and not so predictable... if while kabuto and deidara were on the attack... Gaara should turn up... and after/during the battle explain to us why he arrived in flashback or w/e... It's the kinda thing I would expect... if we are to think back to things like the sound 4 arc for example! xD

But Kishi' may surprise us yet! It's just an example!

The plot seems to have some elements long in the works, and some are being forced. I agree with this, the question is if the now-introduced concepts was planned to be like this to emphasize the war-time chaos and will have time to mature, or Kishi is rushing to end the series after planning it out so well thus far.

When you say this... it DOES seem a tad bit rushed... not in the sense that he is hurrying things along... but perhaps not planning out his delivery of certain concepts as carefully enough... good point you make there!

 

[Hammy120290]

I agree with you about the story should be more from Naruto's perspective.

But every week if it was Naruto's perspective Kishi would be moving the story TOO fast.

He has to show whats happening with Madara and the Kages etc because all of the different alliances and characters are going to come to a head soon imo.

 

[Honord Sage]

Sooner or later if Naruto had not defeated Pain, Madara would have taken on Pain, their over all strategy goes against each other.

 

[Hammy120290]

Sooner or later if Naruto had not defeated Pain, Madara would have taken on Pain, their over all strategy goes against each other.

From what Madara said after he found out Pein died it seems likely he was going to either fight him or that Nagato was meant to stay alive to use the technique that brought back the Konoha Ninjas from the dead I forget the name.

I assume this technique to bring back the dead was associated with Madara becoming whole again and getting a living body.

 

[Scary Yamato]

DISCLAIMER
Although I believe in freedom of expression... I don't want this thread to turn into a flame war or a fanboy/girl soapbox... I am merely making an observation from an objective stand point! If you do not agree with me... or even take offence... please express this in a sensible manner! So as the prefix signifies... LET'S DISCUSS.​

Right... I personally feel that since Naruto defeated Pein... things have well... got abit messy... Why I say this is Kishi's style is often airtight and has a sense of coherence... composure... w/e... But lately there has been a MASS introduction of characters and their appearances seem awfully random and spontaneous...

Also I'd like to refer to the pace of the story.

We have witnessed Naruto gaining control of his Kyubii chakra... following this, we have Kisame do his thing. After this is concluded... We witness Konan vs Madara... Immediately after we are shown Madara's new look... and sudden appearance of Kisame's intel... We then return to the island (at what I presume to be a short time after Kisame got his info out)... With everyone making plans to move location.

Now my question here is... Chronologically... what the hell is going on... I'll assume Konan vs Madara was happening during the time Naruto was gaining his powers or during Kisame's escape attempt... But this doesn't explain how quickly the intel was retrieved by the remaining Akatsuki...

Oki! I know I risk being known as Narutobase's "Grumpy Old Git" and I do nit pick... but I just have this sense of randomness that is out of character for Kishi...

bleh so much ranting
My main point here is... the plot is bouncing all over the place... Have you noticed? If so/if not... how do you feel about it?

I have to agree with you on this. It all seems to be rushed. After naruto gaining his uber powers, everything seems to be comming out of nowhere. Suddenly Nagato is an uzumake, There are weird living masses of the first hokage, Madara/tobi is collecting zetsu clones. It seems like kishi is pulling stuff out of his butt to try and fill plotholes.

 

[Hammy120290]

I have to agree with you on this. It all seems to be rushed. After naruto gaining his uber powers, everything seems to be comming out of nowhere. Suddenly Nagato is an uzumake, There are weird living masses of the first hokage, Madara/tobi is collecting zetsu clones. It seems like kishi is pulling stuff out of his butt to try and fill plotholes.

What plot hole needed filled about a giant army of Zetsu clones. What Plot hole needed fixed about Nagato being an Uzumaki?

These are all things Kishi has planned its all part of a bigger picture that he's leading up to obviously. We cant understand why its a mess until we find out the later Manga's.

 

[Scary Yamato]

What plot hole needed filled about a giant army of Zetsu clones. What Plot hole needed fixed about Nagato being an Uzumaki?

These are all things Kishi has planned its all part of a bigger picture that he's leading up to obviously. We cant understand why its a mess until we find out the later Manga's.

plot holes may be the wrong word, but (to me) it seems as if the story has gone out of control and now kishi is wondering to himself "what can I do to tie all this back together?"

I'm sensing some frustration on your end hammy ^_^

 

[Honord Sage]

The plot has thicken as Sherlock Homes would say, Madara fells its time to speed up the time table so now Kabuto goes for Bee and Naruto with D- man but it's not going to be simple as Kabuto may think it might be. Their bound to be a surprise in Kabuto's life for sure.

 

[niblack89]

Well there seemed to be a time gap between. Tobi had a full battle with Konan, then he translated the eye. That could have been a few hours to half a day seeing as Gai is still feeling the side effects of the gates.

Kish can't go into everything, doing that would be loots of fillers leave that to the anime. It does seemed kind of rushed.

Maybe that's why Kish is taking so many Naruto breaks. Last year kish only took holiday breaks and like two days off, he took at least 5 breaks in like 5 months I find that weird. It started with Dark Naruto, till last chapter. I think he's figuring ways to go.

 

[Hammy120290]

I'm sensing some frustration on your end hammy ^_^

A little lol ^^

It started with Dark Naruto, till last chapter. I think he's figuring ways to go.

Kishi knows exactly where he wants to go i regards to the plot and what he wants to happen.

I think its just the how do we get there he's struggling with tbh.

The Manga is still awesome rushed or not lol.

 

[Scary Yamato]

I just find it odd that they Madara is like, Oh yeah... btw I have a hashirama DNA mass in my basement wana see. Its growing out of my giant flower.

I have a feeling that flower is a key ingredient madara's recipe of madness

 

[niblack89]

A little lol ^^



Kishi knows exactly where he wants to go i regards to the plot and what he wants to happen.

I think its just the how do we get there he's struggling with tbh.

The Manga is still awesome rushed or not lol.

I never said the manga is getting bad but I don't think he is taking his time. Every writer has to sit and think of their next move sometimes they have to rush the plot to get to were they need to go. Kubo seems like he written himself in a crazy plot for Bleach that's why he's taking 2 weeks off.

 

[Hammy120290]

I never said the manga is getting bad.

I never said you said the manga is getting bad so lol

 

[CasualMisfit]

I really am enjoying all of this!

I agree with you about the story should be more from Naruto's perspective.

But every week if it was Naruto's perspective Kishi would be moving the story TOO fast.

He has to show whats happening with Madara and the Kages etc because all of the different alliances and characters are going to come to a head soon imo.

Yes yes I quite agree that in some respects we have to see what is going on from the perspective of other characters and locations... That's why I say as often as possible... But atm it is happening alil too often... Like my example... we could still have gotten the information about the most recent Kage summit from Gaara on his arrival... It's a trick... but it would still be from Naruto's perspective but told in flash back if that makes sense?

Why I think it's so important... is that Naruto is obviously the main and titular character... And I think being mostly from his perspective allows us to have an emotional attachment to his life... But recently with all the flittering about between characters, back stories, and battles... It has become difficult to do just that... :/ Well for me anyway!

I have to agree with you on this. It all seems to be rushed. After naruto gaining his uber powers, everything seems to be comming out of nowhere. Suddenly Nagato is an uzumake, There are weird living masses of the first hokage, Madara/tobi is collecting zetsu clones. It seems like kishi is pulling stuff out of his butt to try and fill plotholes.

I agree... not so much plotholes (as you said later on) More like... trying desperately to tie up loose ends... altho' this may all play apart abit later... it does have that current feeling of trying to rush out the info asap! Again... it comes down to deliverance!

...Maybe that's why Kish is taking so many Naruto breaks. Last year kish only took holiday breaks and like two days off, he took at least 5 breaks in like 5 months I find that weird. It started with Dark Naruto, till last chapter. I think he's figuring ways to go.

Good point there about the breaks... When I consider this... I see a Kishi who does indeed know where he is trying to go... but may have confused himself alil with all the details... I mean it is a pretty deep story with an extensive history... Not only that.. but he would probably have to read over old material to make sure there are no plot holes and things remain consistent (unlike kubo)... Hence all the breaks...

Failing that... who knows... something may be happening in his personal life.. or he may feel he is struggling to keep things fresh!

 

[maldoror]

You expressed my feelings, CasualMisfit. Each week, you cannot predict what scene the manga is going to jump next which is good but also bad; unpredictability / shifting gives dynamism to a story, but it lose its strength if you do it every week, even multiple times in one single chapter. Introduction of new characters & events are exciting when there is already an ongoing solid story at hand. Now story has been more like flashes from here to there. Even the major fights taking 1 chapter at best. (Oh, Naruto hurting his ankle was the lamest thing in the whole manga so far.)

Before we even digested Naruto's fight with Kyuubi (which by the way, was the only solid sub-arc since invasion of pain), major stuff keep happening multiple times even in a single chapter. And they shift so quickly that manga started to become a historical chronology instead of a storytelling. Or say, a imdb style "plot summary".

This shinobi war thing also feels like a forced event to me. I find no sense Madara going to the summit and declaring a war forcibly making the villages join forces against him when they were fighting against each other, which was sweet for Madara. And why are the villages getting so worked up against this individual, gathering 80000 shinobi. Every single Akatsuki was handled by mere duels. What is the point of gathering & feeding a huge army when your enemy is in hiding and probably a single person with tailed beast powerup.

 

[X Ventus X]

DISCLAIMER
Although I believe in freedom of expression... I don't want this thread to turn into a flame war or a fanboy/girl soapbox... I am merely making an observation from an objective stand point! If you do not agree with me... or even take offence... please express this in a sensible manner! So as the prefix signifies... LET'S DISCUSS.​

Right... I personally feel that since Naruto defeated Pein... things have well... got abit messy... Why I say this is Kishi's style is often airtight and has a sense of coherence... composure... w/e... But lately there has been a MASS introduction of characters and their appearances seem awfully random and spontaneous...

Also I'd like to refer to the pace of the story.

We have witnessed Naruto gaining control of his Kyubii chakra... following this, we have Kisame do his thing. After this is concluded... We witness Konan vs Madara... Immediately after we are shown Madara's new look... and sudden appearance of Kisame's intel... We then return to the island (at what I presume to be a short time after Kisame got his info out)... With everyone making plans to move location.

Now my question here is... Chronologically... what the hell is going on... I'll assume Konan vs Madara was happening during the time Naruto was gaining his powers or during Kisame's escape attempt... But this doesn't explain how quickly the intel was retrieved by the remaining Akatsuki...

Oki! I know I risk being known as Narutobase's "Grumpy Old Git" and I do nit pick... but I just have this sense of randomness that is out of character for Kishi...

bleh so much ranting
My main point here is... the plot is bouncing all over the place... Have you noticed? If so/if not... how do you feel about it?

I agree with you entirly. When i 1st saw the spoilers i was wondering if they were fake because a giant Zetsu army apearing out of nowhere seemed a bit hard to believe. But yeah Kishi has chucked alot of stuff at us the last couple of chapters but it has to be shown or whats going to happen wouldnt make sense.

Confused? me 2

 

[Crutch Kaguya]

I agree. Things seem to be going on much faster then before, when Kishi was taking it slow and allowing the plot to flow along. Now, he seems like he's in a hurry. The giant Zetsu army was quite freaky and a bit out of nowhere. The plot isn't messy as long as you think it out but it is a little out of control.