[Theory] NARUTO 688 Miconceptions.

[CDT23]

I think we need to look a little deeper. Not being able to copy KKG isn't just an arbitrary rule. The reason Kakashi couldn't do it is because he didn't have prerequisite in order to use the jutsu. It's the same reason he can't just copy any regular elemental jutsu. Since the prereq for Susano'o is double MS, he can copy it.

Secondly no one has every seen "training" their susano'o. Seems it gets stronger with the skill level of the user. Few are more skilled than Kakashi.

^this sums it up. Some one gets what I mean.

 

[sLm]

Everybody wanted to see Obito's susanoo. Well, consider this susanoo as Obito's, just in the body of Kakashi. Because it's actually Obito who made this possible, by being within Kakashi as a soul, moving the threads.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

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so i basically reread the whole chapter and noticed few things.

look at the panels below.

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I know some people are supposedly ‘freaking’ out on Obito coming back to life and bashing Kishi for writing illogically, firstly lets find out whats actually happening;

Obito simply used the Spirit Transformation jutsu, he was able to freely move his spirit at will, entering people’s bodies/minds, even transferring his Chakra to them.

We first see Dan Katō use the techinque in order to speak to Tsunade.

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see the similarity..??

Next we see Tobirama try use this technique in order to save Sasuke sadly since he was restricted from Madara’s jutsu he was unable to move and perform any jutsu.

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Even Madara himself used the jutsu to return his soul to his undead body.

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Proving what Obito did was not impossible.​

​

It is funny to see blind people trying to lead other blind people. However, it is even funnier when someone is having his own interpretation of a given fact. I mean someone who can see clearly is funny when he see the wrong thing from what is presented. My friend, this part of your post is funny because Obito did not use any spirit transfer jutsu. We all saw and read what happened. Obito said clearly that the two world can be connected by chakra, and this is how he was able to connect to Kakashi. See, connecting two people through chakra and transfering one's spirit are different.

Here, Obito sent his chakra in the real world, connect it to Kakashi, then the two of them were able to communicate. Next, Obito gave his Sharingan power to Kakashi in the inter-world.

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Now the second misconception.

Obito giving Kakashi both his eyes.

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Many people may have not noticed but Kakashi’s eyes and powers are ‘Temporary’ like Obito said:

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Obito used the technique Itachi used on Sasuke to protect Sasuke from Obito/Tobi.

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Itachi transferred his power to Sasuke exactly what Obito did to Kakashi this chapter. Right now Kakashi is using Obito’s chakra, the MS or the ability to summon a Susano’o is not his but Obito’s. Right now Obito’s spirit and chakra is inside Kakashi, exactly what Itachi did to Sasuke. Once Kakashi/Obito tires out Kakashi automatically loses the ability of having MS.[/INDENT]

Here again, you interpreted your own way. You have minterpreted Obito's world as well, and it is also funny that everyone want everything to be temporary. Rikudo gave permanent power to Sasuke and Naruto. Indra and Ashura gave permanent power to Sasuke and Naruto. All these are transmigration of chakra.

in what Obito said, only the gift expired because by the time Kakashi will become Hokage, the gift will be already old. Obito even linked the fact to when kakashi was genin. he also gave an expired gift because it was not on time. See, all Sasuke fanboys should accept and deal with the fact that Uchiha power is jsut the same as tailed beast power. It is mere chakra that can move from one person to another. In fact, there is no difference in giving the eye and giving the content of the eye.

To be clear, every Uchiha can deactivate Sharingan, which means the chakra withdraw and go back in the head. Simply put, Obito took all his Sharingan chakra and gave it to Kakashi making Kakashi a full-fledged Uchiha.

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And finally the last misconception.

Kakashi using Perfect Susano’o, with just Mangekyō Sharingan.

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Kakashi simply copied the ability to summon Perfect Susano’o from Sasuke, yes he copied a Susano’o, well he is known as the copy cat ninja why not take a step further and copy a entire Susano’o?

Thats the reason behind Naruto saying “Thats why he’s known as the famous copy cat ninja”.

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And look at the panel below, Naruto thought Sasuke saved Sakura due to the Susano’o kinda looking like Sasuke’s. Until he turned back and realized Sasuke is right behind him and confused as much as Naruto.

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So everyone calm down this isn’t ass pull is just the way Kishi writes, everything shown in this chapter was shown before but in a more epic proportion.

any problem..?!![/INDENT]

Whether Kakashi copied Susanoo or not is not that a big deal. The truth is that there were only two people with PS before Kakashi, and the two PS were almost identical with tiny differences in the nose or weapons. So, if Kakashi copied Sasuke's Rinnegan, maybe Sasuke copied Madara's.

 

[sgt]

Actually this susano is a bit different by looks i think. It might just be me but if you look close enough @ the last panel where you can see PS, ''its'' face has the exact same scar that kakashi has on his left eye. I think because kakashi is the one using Susano with obito's eyes for the very first time and beeing its first user for it, it kind of has his trademark, in this case kakashi's scar.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Hagoromo solos

 

[Hata Hideaki]

but kakashi's susanoo is too fast

yeah, it was way too fast. but kishi cant just show us everything like using susano for the first time and failing at it, and then trying it again and so on. if he did that it would take a lot of time and a few more chapters. since it at its ending stage(manga) kishi just made it faster and showing readers how skillful kakashi is.

 

[AMIan]

Kakashi got the Mangekyo and then a minute later he suddenly pulls a wild PS out of his ass. Sasuke, a guy with both parents of Uchiha blood, couldn't do that. It took like him what? 150+ chapters and DEATH to activate his PS?

 

[Scooby Doo]

The first point seems legit but I disagree with the 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Hata Hideaki]

yeah, but wait, since when does obito know that jutsu. No my friend this is just dumb

why shouldnt he know..? there is nothing like spirit transformation jutsu only belongs to dan. obito must have researched about some forbidden techniques or madara might have taught him when he was in the cave.

this tread is very nice and all.
but what you don't understand is that. no person can just summon a susanoo at an instant. i mean seriously it takes so much training.
and copying a susanoo is impossible! and i don't think chakra can be transferred in that sort of wway!

the thing i dont understand with your post is about training to summon susano. did you see anyone train to summon susaso in the entire naruto verse..? no right..!! and i did mention that it is obito's chakra that is able to summon susaso not kakashi's. please read it clearly.

First - Susanoo is a Kekkei Genkai, the Sharingan can't copy a Kekkei Genkai.

Second - Sasuke needed a lot of time and "training" before he could use PS, while Kakashi a non-Uchiha can use it right away.

This doesn't seem right to me.

true dat, susano is kkg. and sharingan cant copy them. what i said is the ability to summon susano from watching sasuke and with the help of obito's chakra he was able to bring forth susano. and sasuke didnt train to summon his susano. and no one in the entire naruto verse trained to do that.

 

[Leinad Sotam]

Kakashi can´t do that he can´t do this... The story isn´t yours is Kishi's. So stay butthurt.
Good analysis of the chapter !

 

[Hata Hideaki]

A few issues with this theory.....When did Obito learn the Spirit Transformation Jutsu? Dan didn't teach it to him and he "died" when he was like 13 after barely awakening his Sharingan.

How did he use this jutsu after he was turned to Doritoes?

Madara didn't use that jutsu, he simply cancelled the ending of the edo Tensei and remained. But this is debatible as the technique Madara used is probably akin to the Spirit Transformation so I can give you that.

Itachi was alive when he programmed the Amateratsu into Sasuke's eyes. The tap on the forehead is what brought it about. As I mentioned above. Obito's body had already been destroyed.

Also The Sharingan is not suppose to be capable of copying Kekkei Genkai. Susanoo is an ability of the Sharingan....A Kekkei Genkai. This just shows that Kishi is throwing out rules he once had in places.

everything else I agree with....

But just because it is somewhat plausible doesn't make it any less of an asspull.

ok here i go:

1. i cant really say when he learned it but im sure that madara taught him the technique when he was in the cave or obito researched some forbidden jutsus and found it.

2. he did mention that with rin right..? when she asked "will you go right away". he said "chakra is what connects to this world and other world".

3. yes, he didnt use it but it is similar to spirit transformation jutsu.

4. like you said, the tap on sasuke's forehead made itachi transfer his powers to him. now in kakashi's case you did see that obito's chakra touched him right..! at that point the powers got transferred to kakashi.

5. as you said, susano is a kkg and cannot be copied with a sharingan. but kakashi copied the ability to summon it by watching sasuke and obito helped him to bring forth since obito's chakra is transferred to him.

 

[Athlus]

Great interpretation but your point regarding the spirit transformation jutsu lacks a bit of precision.

Similar to how Naruto has the sage's yang chakra which provided him the sage chakra and the gudoudama
as well as how Sasuke has the sage's yin chakra which provided him with the 9-tomoe sharingan or Rinnegan,

Obito has given his chakra to Kakashi which provided him with both MS. Considering how the Kamui MS had awakened when Obito had the right eye and Kakashi had the left eye, they did always hold a connection.

The way how Obito handled it is unique in the sense that he fused the STJ and his Kamui to transmigrate his chakra to Kakashi. Even then the bond Kakashi and Obito share through the Sharingan is older than Sasuke and Naruto alike. Furthermore, Kakashi had the Mangekyo Sharingan for a time that is greater than Sasuke's age.

One of the problems we have with how the Kamui doujutsu works is we didn't see it in action when Obito did not have the Hashirama cells, a regenerative booster that was special to Hashirama-only.

Furthermore, considering how the dimensional travel sucks up the chakra as we had seen in Kaguya's case, it might be possible that the Kamui doujutsu or techniques in its caliber (Sasuke's eye technique) might very well be the highest chakra consuming doujutsus.
In like manner how the Hashirama cells had helped its users in better utilizing Koto Amatsukami and Izanagi, a similar relation can be between the cells and Kamui.

Now, upon taken these into consideration, the only reason Kakashi would get his chakra drained out of using his MS was due to using the Kamui. This opens up the possibilities of Kakashi perhaps having a larger pool of chakra than Sasuke.

At last, we never saw anyone train to perfect the susanoo so it might very well be connected how much the shinobi using it is skilled in forming a construct like the susanoo and if it indeed is related with the skill level, Kakashi had always been a resourceful ninja who never failed in proving his genius over his peers or subordinates.

To the careful eye, chapter 688's revelation is as much as an asspull as much as the whole transmigrant ordeal between the Sage, Naruto and Sasuke. Hence, it is not an asspull

 

[Hata Hideaki]

Great interpretation but your point regarding the spirit transformation jutsu lacks a bit of precision.

Similar to how Naruto has the sage's yang chakra which provided him the sage chakra and the gudoudama
as well as how Sasuke has the sage's yin chakra which provided him with the 9-tomoe sharingan or Rinnegan,

Obito has given his chakra to Kakashi which provided him with both MS. Considering how the Kamui MS had awakened when Obito had the right eye and Kakashi had the left eye, they did always hold a connection.

The way how Obito handled it is unique in the sense that he fused the STJ and his Kamui to transmigrate his chakra to Kakashi. Even then the bond Kakashi and Obito share through the Sharingan is older than Sasuke and Naruto alike. Furthermore, Kakashi had the Mangekyo Sharingan for a time that is greater than Sasuke's age.

One of the problems we have with how the Kamui doujutsu works is we didn't see it in action when Obito did not have the Hashirama cells, a regenerative booster that was special to Hashirama-only.

Furthermore, considering how the dimensional travel sucks up the chakra as we had seen in Kaguya's case, it might be possible that the Kamui doujutsu or techniques in its caliber (Sasuke's eye technique) might very well be the highest chakra consuming doujutsus.
In like manner how the Hashirama cells had helped its users in better utilizing Koto Amatsukami and Izanagi, a similar relation can be between the cells and Kamui.

Now, upon taken these into consideration, the only reason Kakashi would get his chakra drained out of using his MS was due to using the Kamui. This opens up the possibilities of Kakashi perhaps having a larger pool of chakra than Sasuke.

At last, we never saw anyone train to perfect the susanoo so it might very well be connected how much the shinobi using it is skilled in forming a construct like the susanoo and if it indeed is related with the skill level, Kakashi had always been a resourceful ninja who never failed in proving his genius over his peers or subordinates.

To the careful eye, chapter 688's revelation is as much as an asspull as much as the whole transmigrant ordeal between the Sage, Naruto and Sasuke. Hence, it is not an asspull

this says it all. you clearly explained everything.

 

[Hata Hideaki]

Kakashi can´t do that he can´t do this... The story isn´t yours is Kishi's. So stay butthurt.
Good analysis of the chapter !

well thank you for the compliment and you said it correct: "Kakashi can´t do that he can´t do this... The story isn´t yours is Kishi's. So stay butthurt.

 

[Colonel Armstrong]

wow what a thread...gotta re read later

 

[FreeTanner17]

I agree with you that it all has a perfectly logical explanation, but I have to correct you on a few points. Obito did not use that forbidden jutsu, he used kamui to teleport his spirit to kakashi since the real world and the afterlife are just different dimensions in the narutoverse. Second, madara just loosed himself from the bindings of the reanimation jutsu caster by forming the hand seals and undoing it.

 

[B00m]

I just amazed at the Obito/Amaterasu scan, it's obvious that is Obito.

As for the OP, I don't question the writer, he can do whatever he wants. You proved valid points which I knew and agree with all with the exception of PS. Only 2 UCHIHAS that have reached EMS have been able to produce PS, so it doesn't really make sense but I don't care at this point.

 

[Hata Hideaki]

I agree with you that it all has a perfectly logical explanation, but I have to correct you on a few points. Obito did not use that forbidden jutsu, he used kamui to teleport his spirit to kakashi since the real world and the afterlife are just different dimensions in the narutoverse. Second, madara just loosed himself from the bindings of the reanimation jutsu caster by forming the hand seals and undoing it.

you are right, he kamuied himself. but what did he do after returning..?? you cant just roam with your chakra like that around. it may or may not be the same technique but it is similar to that jutsu. even in madara's case once a soul is out of his body, they cant control it, even he used a similar technique to return to his body.

 

[Hata Hideaki]

I just amazed at the Obito/Amaterasu scan, it's obvious that is Obito.

As for the OP, I don't question the writer, he can do whatever he wants. You proved valid points which I knew and agree with all with the exception of PS. Only 2 UCHIHAS that have reached EMS have been able to produce PS, so it doesn't really make sense but I don't care at this point.

yeah, now that we know that obito was the masked man, everyone can recognize him by looking at his wrinkles in the early shippuden. and im glad you agree with my theory.

 

[Hata Hideaki]

It is funny to see blind people trying to lead other blind people. However, it is even funnier when someone is having his own interpretation of a given fact. I mean someone who can see clearly is funny when he see the wrong thing from what is presented. My friend, this part of your post is funny because Obito did not use any spirit transfer jutsu. We all saw and read what happened. Obito said clearly that the two world can be connected by chakra, and this is how he was able to connect to Kakashi. See, connecting two people through chakra and transfering one's spirit are different.

Here, Obito sent his chakra in the real world, connect it to Kakashi, then the two of them were able to communicate. Next, Obito gave his Sharingan power to Kakashi in the inter-world.


Here again, you interpreted your own way. You have minterpreted Obito's world as well, and it is also funny that everyone want everything to be temporary. Rikudo gave permanent power to Sasuke and Naruto. Indra and Ashura gave permanent power to Sasuke and Naruto. All these are transmigration of chakra.

in what Obito said, only the gift expired because by the time Kakashi will become Hokage, the gift will be already old. Obito even linked the fact to when kakashi was genin. he also gave an expired gift because it was not on time. See, all Sasuke fanboys should accept and deal with the fact that Uchiha power is jsut the same as tailed beast power. It is mere chakra that can move from one person to another. In fact, there is no difference in giving the eye and giving the content of the eye.

To be clear, every Uchiha can deactivate Sharingan, which means the chakra withdraw and go back in the head. Simply put, Obito took all his Sharingan chakra and gave it to Kakashi making Kakashi a full-fledged Uchiha.


Whether Kakashi copied Susanoo or not is not that a big deal. The truth is that there were only two people with PS before Kakashi, and the two PS were almost identical with tiny differences in the nose or weapons. So, if Kakashi copied Sasuke's Rinnegan, maybe Sasuke copied Madara's.

lets take it your way, you said obito didnt use the jutsu right? ok, now tell how did he move his chakra from the ashes of his body..? it may or may not be the same technique but it is similar to that technique.

naruto's and sasuke's power ups are permanent and there is no doubt in it. but in kakasi's case it is not 'cause compared to naruto and sasuke, obito is not a transmigrant. once again, ashura and indra reincarnated into naruto and sasuke and their chakra's are attached to them or connected to them until they die. but in obito's/ kakasi's case, obito did say that he will be back to rin and he cant stay with kakashi forever, so once he goes out of kakashi he will lose his powers.