Naives/Dreamers/Fakes vs Realistics/Logicals/sensible

[KingHashirama]

Basically in a nutshell the debate is about, people like Hashirama/Naruto/Jiraiya/Rikudou vs Madara/Danzo/Itachi/Tobirama in regards to their thought process and the way they act.

Words you need to know about:

Spoiler

Realistic: having or showing a sensible and practical idea of what can be achieved or expected.

Naive: (of a person or action) showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment.

Dream: contemplate the possibility of doing something or that something might be the case.

The case:
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- People like Hashirama, Naruto, Jiraiya and Rikudou are called dreamers or characters that are naive and unrealistic.

- While on the same note characters like Madara, Danzo, Itachi and Tobirama are called realistic characters.


So what needs to be evaluated is that is it really that way, or is it quite the opposite? Are the dreamers the realistic ones and the "Logicals" are the Naive ones?

Is it Naive to bow down your head in front of the 4 strongest people of your era, while trying converge their countries into a peace with yours (that you created for that sole purpose)?

Or is it naive to believe if you oppress and put the blame on a group , they won't coup or react back?


So give your opinions men and women on what you think.

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PS: Debate and not troll please.

 

[FreakensteinAG]

There's a better term for this: Idealism, the philosophy where you can somehow achieve something great without negative consequences that come with it.

Hashirama, Naruto, and Hagoromo are Idealists. Obito and Madara are Realists. "Hey, I wish your idea would actually work, but since I strongly believe it doesn't, I'm going the way that has the best net gain out of this."

 

[MetalGundam]

I'd personally subscribe to Danzo's ideology

 

[saw2097]

People often use the word naïve and dreamers without understanding the meaning.

Like the above guy said, Naruto and Hashirama and Jiraya are idealists.

However, Madara, Danzo, Itachi, and Tobirama are all idealists as well, they just have drastically different ideals.

Naïve is a word for someone who doesn't understand the world, but really who does understand the world, we all have different opinions and views of the world, so who is to say who is naïve.

The words logical, sensible, and realist don't coincide with each other, logical means using reasoning and facts to comet to a conclusion, but different people use logic differently, so two people can use the same facts and come up with two different logical conclusions.

And the Hashirama and Naruto crowd aren't that unrealistic, there are people like that for instance Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi were idealists that use speeches to win people over to their ideologies.

 

[KingHashirama]

There's a better term for this: Idealism, the philosophy where you can somehow achieve something great without negative consequences that come with it.

Hashirama, Naruto, and Hagoromo are Idealists. Obito and Madara are Realists. "Hey, I wish your idea would actually work, but since I strongly believe it doesn't, I'm going the way that has the best net gain out of this."

In the end same as a Dreamer.

Obito and Madara believe their lil genjutsu will cast peace. Yet they do not understand what peace is. Is it realistic??

Danzo believes he can protect the village with his dirty things, but can he? couldn't stop pain, in fact he was the cause of the village getting destroyed.

 

[Noni]

I think the dreamers are much more better. They want peace and will try whatever to achieve it even if it seems like it can only be achieved in a dream.

 

[Retsu]

People often use the word naïve and dreamers without understanding the meaning.

Like the above guy said, Naruto and Hashirama and Jiraya are idealists.

However, Madara, Danzo, Itachi, and Tobirama are all idealists as well, they just have drastically different ideals.

Naïve is a word for someone who doesn't understand the world, but really who does understand the world, we all have different opinions and views of the world, so who is to say who is naïve.

The words logical, sensible, and realist don't coincide with each other, logical means using reasoning and facts to comet to a conclusion, but different people use logic differently, so two people can use the same facts and come up with two different logical conclusions.

And the Hashirama and Naruto crowd aren't that unrealistic, there are people like that for instance Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi were idealists that use speeches to win people over to their ideologies.

this was a nice read, and I agree 100%

 

[Drakengard]

The thing is that Hashirama and Naruto want long-term peace, not just for one or two generations. I guess they're sticking to their values in hope that people can follow their role. If they forced their way into it obviously their relationships won't be concrete. I guess that's why they're the possible counter to Obito/Nagato's logic on how there can only be short-term peace, the examples for the world.

 

[KingHashirama]

The thing is that Hashirama and Naruto want long-term peace, not just for one or two generations. I guess they're sticking to their values in hope that people can follow their role. If they forced their way into it obviously their relationships won't be concrete. I guess that's why they're the possible counter to Obito/Nagato's logic on how there can only be short-term peace, the examples for the world.

They want it... but they aren't naive enough to think it will exist forever. Hell Hashirama clearly state it out to the Gokage.

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[USSJ Future Trunks]

However, Madara, Danzo, Itachi, and Tobirama are all idealists as well, they just have drastically different ideals.

itachis only idealistic belief was that konoha would somehow defeat akatuski without a shred of help from him and that sasuke would somehow end up becoming hero despite itachis effforts to drive him insane

 

[HiddenSound]

Team Danzō > Team Dreamers