Nagato vs Team Kage

[TRE MERCER]

Nagato gets his ass kicked to amegakure

Not even DMT. ​

 

[Braiyan]

Muu can lighten himself therefore he can lighten others since it's the same technique. "He doesn't know if the speed will be enough so he won't use it"...? What a poor argument. There's no reason he wouldn't try it against Nagato, intel isn't necessary to execute this combo. He's not just going to assume it's not fast enough.

Except the bolded wasn't my argument. My argument is why is Muu going to assume that he needs to lighten Raikage at all when the Raikage is plenty fast by himself, he has no idea of how well Nagato can handle the Raikage's unenhanced speed, and when that notion never occurred to him in the war, where he fought alongside the Raikage in canon and never even thought of doing so. Why is it a poor argument to state that an in character Muu has never used that strategy in canon and has no reason to use it here before finding out what Nagato is capable of?

Then you have to consider why Onoki and Ay used that strategy in canon in the first place.

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and the only reason he knew that is because he tried to do just that by himself at the start. Onoki had used up his chakra stalemating Muu in Jinton blasts for much of the war and stopping a meteor, got healed and some of his chakra recharged by Tsunade, and just witnessed Madara absorb a Rasenshuriken. Trying to break through Susano'o by lightening + increasing Ay's weight at the right moment only became their course of action because Onoki wasn't sure Jinton would work against Madara.

Which is all knowledge Muu would not be aware of until he uses Jinton on Nagato and Raikage attempts to blitz Nagato. Thus he isn't likely to use that strategy until he sees a need for it (which is too bad since either him or the Raikage will be dead/Soul Ripped by the time he does). What he is more likely to do is turn invisible and try to blindside Nagato with Jinton, seeing how he has no idea Nagato is a sensor with extra viewpoints or that Jinton can even be absorbed, and seeing how that was the way he fought in the war.

I've already countered that strategy in my initial post. If Nagato engages Raikage in close combat, Raikage punches his lights out.

Except for the fact that Nagato can

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and proceed to rip out his soul, which

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him during the process. Nevermind there is nothing indicating that a Raikage with no knowledge on Bansho Tenin is going to react so easily to being pulled when SM Naruto with

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reactions

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to do so.

...He doesn't need sensor sand. Spreads out his grains of dust around the battlefield = large invisible objects are revealed since the sand is hitting them like

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.

Except Nagato can also see this sand and would not be likely to just let his chameleon stand around and get coated in it. Unlike the clam, the chameleon can move quite quickly. Plus there's also the fact that other summons will be on the field for the Kazekage to occupy himself with.

Using rain to find the clam = revealing his location inside chamaleon since the two summons can be detected the exact same way. We are talking about four different kages here, you seriously think they will lose sight of the chamaelon when its position is plainly revealed by the rain? Or the kazekage's gold dust?

Once again, Nagato only needs the rain out for as long as it takes to detect the clam. After that, he destroys the clam, stops the rain and now they have their work cut out for them in finding the chameleon. Plus once again you ignore that other summons will be on the field to attack/distract the kages.

Even if the kages do keep track of the chameleon, Nagato himself just exits and makes them focus their attention on him and his other summons instead, taking out either the Kazekage or Mizukage with a boss toad sized ST, whilst putting on pressure with missiles and lasers. That'll leave the chameleon free to ambush.

If all the heads are cut off at once then more heads can't grow because the dog literally has no brain.

Except that's not how the Cerberus' replication works. It doesn't matter how quickly he cuts off their heads, the moment Raikage hits it is the moment that it replicates.

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. All the Raikage is going to achieve is creating more dogs to swarm him and the other kages.

Did I say Muu would target Nagato with jinton? No, he would target the summons behind the Raikage, not in front of him so Raikage wouldn't be in the way of his jinton. @Bold when has Bansho Tenin ever been used, where the target being drawn in is already behind another object?

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Because Nagato didn't react. He got hit by the attack, then absorbed the cloak.

If that were the case, Nagato and his cloak would have shown some form of damage much like how

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, despite him being fast enough to

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, and despite him also

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. Or like

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when he was hit by a Lariat. Being an Edo does not invalidate the fact that Nagato would have been shown taking some kind of damage in that instance. Yet not only is his cloak intact and Nagato himself showing no signs of being damaged, he wasn't even blasted back by the force of the attack like Kisame and Sasuke were, and ends up

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.

It's pretty clear Nagato absorbed Bee's V2 cloak before he could be damaged by Lariat. Thus he was fast enough to react to Lariat.

Nagato got nailed by the lariat, just like how the Raikage will nail him with a punch. Not to mention Lightened Raikage is faster than V2 Bee.

Except extra viewpoints + sensing is going to be assisting him in reacting to the Raikage's attacks, both of which he lacked when he absorbed V2 Bee's Lariat. And hypothetical Lightened Raikage is not as fast, or faster than Lightened Ay.

Nagato sensed Amaterasu before it was cast, but did that enable him to dodge it? Nope.

Because Nagato never attempted, of his own free will, to dodge/block/counter Amaterasu. At no point during that fight was Nagato actually willing to fight, so I'm not sure why you're using his refusal to act as evidence of him being unable to react.

Sensing something =/= reacting to it. Nagato's sensing being superior to Muu's is irrelevant as we're not talking about Muu's sensing here. We're talking about lightened Raikage's speed.

It's quite relevant seeing how Muu was able to dodge ambush attacks from KCM Naruto and

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due to his sensing abilities. And get himself in position to defend against lightened Ay + Onoki. Nagato having superior sensing abilities to what Muu has shown mean that he will have the mental reaction to be able to put up a Preta Path barrier/use a ST before he gets hit.

Nagato has poor reaction feats, seeing how he got blitzed by Bee's lariat,

Absorbing an attack before it can damage you =/= getting blitzed. It's anything but getting blitzed.
Nor does Nagato have poor reaction feats, considering he dodged Rasenshuriken through the Paths twice (just like the Raikage), and reacted to a blitz from 6TK Naruto.

@Bold, lol what? Muu got blitzed by base Ay (

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), he never reacted.

Ay and Tsunade literally teleported on the scene when that supposed blitz occurred. Mu and Madara had no way of anticipating that they would show up. Plus Mu did

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it's not his fault Ay was physically stronger than him.

@Underline, lol I'm in tears Muu was portrayed as superior to Onoki in every way. Speculating that Muu will be worse than Onoki at using lightened weight is not an argument.

The only thing that Muu has over Onoki is invisibility. They stalemated each other when it came to Jinton, and then Onoki showed greater feats with increasing weight when he immobilised that Muu half to be sealed. If Muu really was all that superior to Onoki he should have been able to counter it, or at least Onoki should have indicated that Muu would have been able to counter it in a better condition, yet he was positive that Muu would be unable to escape. Then there's Onoki's feats of lightening weight, where he lightened the island turtle and lightened a whole meteor. Onoki's shown feats with increased/lightened weight surpass Muu's by a landslide. Therefore I don't see why it's impossible for Muu to be worse at using lightened weight on others than Onoki is.

And I don't see any portrayal that implies otherwise. Not like that portrayal would matter much unless it's a direct statement that Muu is superior to Onoki in lightening/increasing weight (or in every way), since the rules of this thread state only shown feats can be used.

 

[Lariatoo]

Ha! My thread got five stars! Awesome!
But seriously here guys, loving the arguments. Reading it have been really fun...