Nagato (KidGamer65) vs Kabuto (Prince Charles)

[Prince Charles]

Ill post my counter in a few mins

EDIT: scratch that make it maybe a hour

 

[Zexion~]

Beast matchup,two of my bro's. lol going to have to read this over when i have time ...

 

[Prince Charles]

Agreed with the venom part.

Indeed

As Sasuke also said, it only impairs their ability to use techniques that require constant concentration. Sensing doesn't require constant concentration so White Rage wouldn't impair it at all. There's also the fact that Itachi managed to hold up Susanoo even when White Rage was active.

Except you're not taking into consideration of Itachi's Edo state which most certainty played a factor in him being able to bring up back sussano. I honestly I will not dwell on this sensing conflict Im merely saying taking white rage into consideration his sensing will be at his highest peak. Im sure you can see where im coming from when I say that but it's a stalemate. Worse case scenario I'll agree with you regarding Nagato still being able to sense dsm kabuto while in the white rage but theirs still the fact that his body will hardly be capable of reacting due to the immense pain from white rage. Even when still taking his sensing abilities into consideration he still a disadvantage while in the white rage.

Actually, it fired off, then stopped and started to coil around the orb. Next panel we see Itachi running to get closer to Sasuke. With full knowledge on that starting distance. Its likely he'll never even get that close to Kabuto in the first place which makes it more likely for him not to be caught in White Rage's Area of effect.

It stopped and coiled because it was already well within the radius of Itachi and sasuke[

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]. It only seems logical that if Nagato is at a further distance the dragon will simply go a further distance until the radius between them is minimum so the effect will still cause trouble.

That's where you're wrong. The closed space of the cave walls allow the Sound and Light waves to bounce off the nearby walls, which in turn amplifies the effect. The hole behind them was too small to change the fact that the rest of the cave they were in was closed off, meaning the Sound and Light waves bounce off of each other and become amplified. In this outside area, the Sound and Light waves will do no such thing and will be spread out a large distance all over the place, making the effect weaker.

I acknowledge the fact that the cave make the technique stronger, no debate there. But as this should already be well known with Muki tensei he can simply create a cave of sort similar to the one where he fought Itachi and sasuke.

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Heres a sketch I made of how it would turn out. Kabuto creates a cave like structure before nagato can even react and immediately releases white rage. Even so Like I said cave or not white rage is still a troublesome technique for nagato.

If he fires a projectile at the thing. The damage will only be in front of him, there is no way he'd get caught in the blast when he is in this open area.

He will get caught in the blast radius when he fires off the blast so close to the dragon when it's near him.

That could be anything, not just liquid. For example it could be plasma, but regardless. It being liquid won't stop explosives from blowing it away or destabilizing its form or something of the like. As seen when Suigetsu got hit by Bijuu Dama.

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Thats a different scenario, Suigetsu also has a human form while the white dragon does not. Worst case scenario Nagato does hit the dragon but it destroys the orb which potentially makes the white rage still go off. Either way you look at it he isnt escaping white rage because if he out runs it, it will simply follow him. If he destroys it theirs always the possibility that it simply make it detonate which will still be harmful to nagato.

Don't forget he has a

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, just like Bijuu Dama. So even if it is liquid (Which I doubt) it'll get blown away which saves Nagato.

Read above already explained the possibly 2 scenarios that can take place regarding the white dragon.

It being liquid won't stop it from being pushed away via Shinra Tensei. Shinra Tensei is simply a repulsive force.

Can't disagree here valid point but then it trails back to the point of potentially destroying the orb thus still still releasing white rage.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that he wouldn't be able to sense him or that his sensing would be impaired. When sensing doesn't require concentration to be active. It only requires you to be

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Something Nagato will clearly be doing when he is in battle. So sensing really doesn't require concentration and focus.

I already expressed my thoughts on this matter. Refer back to the top.

Scenario 1 Counter: He'd be pulling up large rocks, debris from the destroyed Konoha village, and the rocks on the Hokage Mountain. At the end of the day, the spikes he formed are made from ordinary rocks. They would be completely crushed by the incoming rubble, they wouldn't deflect any rubble coming towards him and the orb.

Wrong. The spikes he forms from the use of MT while I admit would probably get destroyed but your wrong when you say it wouldnt protect him from incoming rubble. If the spikes are taking the incoming rubble obviously that means that kabuto is safe.

Scenario 2 Counter: Impossible. Even if he took control the of the rocks. The black orb in the middle has too strong a gravitational pull. Regardless of Kabuto's wishes it would pull any rubble under his control to the center and it would keep it there.

Well I did say it was a theory. O_O

Scenario 3 Counter: Where is he going to go? Chibaku Tensei's area of effect was larger than a whole Mountain Range.

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He has nowhere to run. Even if he finds a place to go. He'll eventually need to come back to fight Nagato (Unless he'd like to run away and forfeit, lol), so when he comes back. Nagato starts the gravitational pull once again. Note that he says

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Where would he go? Sorry but im having trouble taking you seriously. For one a obvious route he would tech once the body flame technique is in place would be to get away from the gravitational pull from the CT. Not too mention kabuto already has knowledge on CT and how it works. Surely once he sees the black orb go up he will immediately go into action to prevent it from activating.

Nagato clearly saids he needs time and concentration while forming the black Orb for CT[

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]. Not only will he be vulnerable but this will give kabuto a chance to counter.

While Nagato is standing still prepping the black orb he will fall victim to a muki tensei spike attack theres no debating this. Now lets say he manages to throw the orb into the air. This is where Manda 2 new enhancements come into play here.

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With manda already being capable of reaching towards the Orb, with his new arms installed by kabuto he will be capable of grabbing the orb before rubble starts to draw near to it and potentially destroy the Orb. Also regarding the body flame tecnique its questionable if nagato will be able to sense kabuto once he disappears which may leave him vulnerable to kabuto sneaking up behind him with a chakra scrapel ready and decapitate him.

Addressed

Owned.

Addressed.

Owned

Addressed.

you aint ready for the big boys yet.

I guess I can agree here. Though CT will end this so Gedo will never be used.

@BOLD what else can you do? and CT is not ending nothing. And what do you think think will happen to kabuto if he gets trapped in CT? The rubble will kill him?? LOL his regeneration saids otherwise. Honestly tell me how Ct will kill kabuto when physical attack have no effect on him? will he die from starvation lol?

Chibaku Tensei.

:leaf:

I can't say that I disagree. Then again the Soul Dragon takes the soul of anything it makes contact with. Kabuto still has a soul even in liquid form. But the Muki Tensei counter is good though.

But then again im most likely right. I don't see the soul dragon taking his soul when his body is dispersed everywhere in a liquid state.

lol? Nagato mastered Yin Release at Age 10.

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(6 Nature Transformations refer to the 5 basic ones, and also Yin-Yang) Sage Mode may power up his Genjutsu but still, Sakura was able to break it in Part 1. Nagato, a Genjutsu master, who has mastered Yin Release (

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), along with his Chakra Disruption Blades, also coupled with the fact that a bunch of ninja already helped with that Genjutsu to amplify it. I don't see it being threat or a factor in this match.

That was back in part 1 as you said obviously now the technique will be leveled up now due to DSM. Him mastering Yin release I admit is troublesome but as the manga displayed , Itachi's tysukuyomi is only breakable from other uchiha with the same blood as him.( exluding jinchuriki) so what does that say to Nagato mastering Yin release? As I said Kabuto will use the genjutsu in the heat of moment. If nagato doesnt react fast enough he will fall asleep. Manga fact

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Lmaoooo, honestly, I think Prince Charles is my favorite debater on this site. Dis nigga is hilarious.

Great debate so far though.

 

[Prince Charles]

Lmaoooo, honestly, I think Prince Charles is my favorite debater on this site. Dis nigga is hilarious.

Great debate so far though.

3hunna
#Sosa baby

 

[Strict]

@KidGamer, you ain't ready for the big boys yet.

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[Smd]

nagato would win.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

3hunna
#Sosa baby

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[Optimistic]

"you ain't ready for the big boys yet"

Something about that part released such a badass aura.Astonishing.

 

[Zexion~]

Soul Dragon not working in liquid form ? :/ ...

Anyways great debate by both of you, eagerly awaiting next post

 

[Prince Charles]

zexion i already gave my reasoning for why the soul dragon wouldnt work on kabutos in his liquid form.

How many times will u make me correct you?

 

[pateuvasiliu]

zexion i already gave my reasoning for why the soul dragon wouldnt work on kabutos in his liquid form.

How many times will u make me correct you?

He still has a soul, water or not.

 

[Zexion~]

zexion i already gave my reasoning for why the soul dragon wouldnt work on kabutos in his liquid form.

How many times will u make me correct you?

Lmao there you go again acting all cocky,

I saw your reasoning and i still have my doubts my man,


*edit-Your other counter was pretty good tho

 

[Prince Charles]

I wont bother debating this. You guys are entitled to disagree. As I said kabuto disperes everywhere in a liquid form. Saying.the dragon will take his soul when its only been shown to take the soul of solid body humans is mere speculation.

@zexion
Hell yeah im cocky. Im fken prince charles.

 

[Zexion~]

I wont bother debating this. You guys are entitled to disagree. As I said kabuto disperes everywhere in a liquid form. Saying.the dragon will take his soul when its only been shown to take the soul of solid body humans is mere speculation.

@zexion
Hell yeah im cocky. Im fken prince charles.

Saying it will is also speculation ,

 

[Prince Charles]

Saying it will is also speculation ,

I guess its a stalemate then. Anyways i provided and still have counters for gedo like muki tensei as I pointed

@everyone try not to spam the thread.

 

[genii96]

KG,loose with Nagato and i'll cut out your intestines:|

 

[KidGamer65]

Except you're not taking into consideration of Itachi's Edo state which most certainty played a factor in him being able to bring up back sussano. I honestly I will not dwell on this sensing conflict Im merely saying taking white rage into consideration his sensing will be at his highest peak. Im sure you can see where im coming from when I say that but it's a stalemate. Worse case scenario I'll agree with you regarding Nagato still being able to sense dsm kabuto while in the white rage but theirs still the fact that his body will hardly be capable of reacting due to the immense pain from white rage. Even when still taking his sensing abilities into consideration he still a disadvantage while in the white rage.

I did take his Edo state into consideration, my point was that Itachi (Despite being an Edo, he did feel pain from the effects of White Rage based on his expression

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) was able to put up a technique that did require concentration so Nagato should be able to sense him coming when it doesn't require concentration. Just wanted to clarify that.

Nagato's body doesn't need to react to Kabuto coming at him. Shinra Tensei isn't activated with bodily movements, its activated via

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.

It stopped and coiled because it was already well within the radius of Itachi and sasuke[

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]. It only seems logical that if Nagato is at a further distance the dragon will simply go a further distance until the radius between them is minimum so the effect will still cause trouble.

I concede Nagato being able to outrun it then. Though he can still blow it away via ST before it activates.

I acknowledge the fact that the cave make the technique stronger, no debate there. But as this should already be well known with Muki tensei he can simply create a cave of sort similar to the one where he fought Itachi and sasuke.

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Heres a sketch I made of how it would turn out. Kabuto creates a cave like structure before nagato can even react and immediately releases white rage. Even so Like I said cave or not white rage is still a troublesome technique for nagato.

If he makes this structure from by utilizing the ground as his material, Asura laser cannons would blow it apart making it impossible for him to completely create this thing. Kabuto has to shape the ground into the cave like structure, so that gives Nagato enough time to counter via Asura.

If he uses Jirobo's Doton to do it, Preta can absorb it.

He will get caught in the blast radius when he fires off the blast so close to the dragon when it's near him.

That's like saying he would get caught in the blast radius when he used

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against Killer B. Which I highly doubt would have happened.

The chain of missiles he used, I admit, that would get him caught in the explosion, but the one he used to destroy the houses in Konoha (Which is the same one he used on Killer B, but just on the arm instead of on the head) I highly doubt he'd get caught in it.

The blast is just like shooting a Bijuu Dama in its uncompressed form. The attack goes straight forward, it doesn't explode in all directions like a bomb.

Thats a different scenario, Suigetsu also has a human form while the white dragon does not. Worst case scenario Nagato does hit the dragon but it destroys the orb which potentially makes the white rage still go off. Either way you look at it he isnt escaping white rage because if he out runs it, it will simply follow him. If he destroys it theirs always the possibility that it simply make it detonate which will still be harmful to nagato.

Suigetsu can become liquid. He was fused with the ocean itself. It doesn't matter if he had a human form because he wasn't using said form at the time. He was pure liquid. Having a human form doesn't change what happens to liquid if hit by that kind of explosion.

Bold is impossible. The orb and the dragon are both vital part of White Rage.

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You can clearly see the light burst from the orb. Its safe to say that the effects of White Rage all come from that orb and the dragon initiates it. Without either one the technique will not activate.

Can't disagree here valid point but then it trails back to the point of potentially destroying the orb thus still still releasing white rage.

His Shinra Tensei was strong enough to blow Killer B and Naruto back several meters, along with blowing down the trees in the path. White Rage would be blown far enough that it activating wouldn't even hurt anybody.

And again, the technique shows that both the dragon and the orb are necessary for it to activate.

-The Dragon to initiate the effect.
-The orb to release the effect.

Wrong. The spikes he forms from the use of MT while I admit would probably get destroyed but your wrong when you say it wouldnt protect him from incoming rubble. If the spikes are taking the incoming rubble obviously that means that kabuto is safe.

If they get destroyed, they'll end up getting pulled back against the orb making it become a complete round object again, meaning Kabuto would end up getting crushed. He'd need the spikes to be able to stay intact for the whole forming process of Chibaku Tensei to protect, and to continue protecting him from the incoming rubble.

Where would he go? Sorry but im having trouble taking you seriously. For one a obvious route he would tech once the body flame technique is in place would be to get away from the gravitational pull from the CT. Not too mention kabuto already has knowledge on CT and how it works. Surely once he sees the black orb go up he will immediately go into action to prevent it from activating.

I was saying that if he gets out of the range of CT, he can't do anything to Nagato from there so he'd have to come back. And if he does he gets caught in the gravitational pull.

Nagato clearly saids he needs time and concentration while forming the black Orb for CT[

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]. Not only will he be vulnerable but this will give kabuto a chance to counter.

While Nagato is standing still prepping the black orb he will fall victim to a muki tensei spike attack theres no debating this. Now lets say he manages to throw the orb into the air. This is where Manda 2 new enhancements come into play here.

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lol, no. Nagato via Deva Path has shown the ability to levitate.

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A Muki Tensei spike isn't killing Nagato. Not a chance. He can just levitate above it.

With manda already being capable of reaching towards the Orb, with his new arms installed by kabuto he will be capable of grabbing the orb before rubble starts to draw near to it and potentially destroy the Orb. Also regarding the body flame tecnique its questionable if nagato will be able to sense kabuto once he disappears which may leave him vulnerable to kabuto sneaking up behind him with a chakra scrapel ready and decapitate him.

lol? Not sure if serious.

-The black orb reaches heights far above Mountains.

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Since when was Manda II even as tall or as large as a Mountain let alone at heights the orb reaches?

-How would he make it to the orb before rubble starts to collect on it? Seconds from the orb reaching its place in the sky, rubble starts to collect on it.

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Don't even forget the fact that Manda is not that large.

If you are saying he'll use the gravitational pull to get to the orb, that isn't happening before rubble has collected on it, and Manda II isn't destroying all the rubble surrounding the orb to get to the orb so that still makes this point invalid.

Body Flame Technique is nothing but a transportation jutsu. There is zero reason to believe that this jutsu will allow him to mask his chakra from Nagato to initiate a sneak attack. Its not happening. Especially when chakra scalpel covers his hand in chakra, chakra that Nagato can sense. If Kabuto tries this, chakra scalpel gets absorbed by the Preta barrier leaving nothing but Kabuto's hand there, and then Nagato grabs him and rips his soul out.

Owned.



Owned



you aint ready for the big boys yet.

lmao, the cockiness is strong with this one.

@BOLD what else can you do? and CT is not ending nothing. And what do you think think will happen to kabuto if he gets trapped in CT? The rubble will kill him?? LOL his regeneration saids otherwise. Honestly tell me how Ct will kill kabuto when physical attack have no effect on him? will he die from starvation lol?

lol? Kabuto is trapped so the battle is over. Unless he pulls a way to escape the orb once its been formed out of his arse, then he's done. Whoever said CT had to kill him to end this match? CT can be used as a prison as Nagato had exclaimed

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Not to mention Rikudo Sennin used Chibaku Tensei to trap the Juubi inside it.

There's also the fact that Kabuto can't breathe while in there, and regeneration isn't going to help when he's been squished in between tons of rock.

But then again im most likely right. I don't see the soul dragon taking his soul when his body is dispersed everywhere in a liquid state.

At the end of the day no matter what form he is in, he still has a soul, not to mention the bold, is not what his technique does. He doesn't scatter his own body apart as a bunch of different liquid pieces.

He leaves behind trails of chakra infused liquid from his real liquefied body which prevented the Uchiha bros from figuring out which liquid form was Kabuto's real body.

The snakes Itachi was holding turned to liquid, also helping Kabuto hide his real body (Which was indeed liquid at the time)

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Itachi mentions he doesn't know which one is the real Kabuto.

Notice his real body comes out of a snake instead of the liquid coming together to reform himself.

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I'd also like to mention one more thing about the Soul Dragon. Its strong enough to smash rock and Nagato can control its movements, and it doesn't vanish until he wants it to.

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You did mention that he can make a shield using the ground via Muki Tensei, but as at the end of the day, it is nothing but ordinary rock/ground. Soul Dragon can smash through it or go around it and attack Kabuto.

That was back in part 1 as you said obviously now the technique will be leveled up now due to DSM. Him mastering Yin release I admit is troublesome but as the manga displayed , Itachi's tysukuyomi is only breakable from other uchiha with the same blood as him.( exluding jinchuriki) so what does that say to Nagato mastering Yin release? As I said Kabuto will use the genjutsu in the heat of moment. If nagato doesnt react fast enough he will fall asleep. Manga fact

The overall effect of that Genjutsu was amplified as Kabuto had several other ninja helping him. Even with the Sage Mode bonus. The boost the technique will get is not going to be so substantial that its going to go from being reacted to and countered by a Part 1 Sakura, to being able to put Nagato to sleep without him even being able to react. The idea is completely laughable at best.

Um, Itachi's Tsukuyomi is leagues above this Genjutsu that Sakura broke. Bringing Tsukuyomi up here helps nothing.

These people are ninja, being in the heat of battle isn't going to stop him from countering the obvious Genjutsu that has been used. (As he has full knowledge)

KG,loose with Nagato and i'll cut out your intestines:|

lol, I got this.

 

[Prince Charles]

Ill post my counter later.

My little cousin is playing games on my laptop on cartoonnetwork U_U

 

[NarutoKage2]

Nice debate. Carry on , one small point:
@Kidgamer65: shinra tensei is not a valid counter to kabuto's white rage tech. As stated in the manga, this jutsu has 2 effects:
1. to blind an opponents eyes via an orb of high intensity light
2. attacking a victim's ears via vibrations of the air in the surrounding environment.

Air vibrates in all directions, and unless shinra tensei is capable of generating a force capable of dispelling air 360 degrees in increasing semi circles and maintaining it, (in which case a vacuum would be generated, rendering nagato unable to breathe), it isnt cancelling the effects of the hakugeki. Imagine a force expanding outwards from a single point in ALL directions, physical objects wont be the only thing repelled by it, as long as the pressure of this force(shinra tensei) is greater than the ambient air pressure it would create a vaccum within the radius of application of the force(as long as the pressure is maintained). Since the blood in our veins is adapted to the earths atmospheric pressure, such an effect would cause nagatos veins to bulge and pop out. And also render him unable to breathe.

Nothing of the kind has been observed whilst nagato performed shinra tensei, therefore its safe to say this jutsu cannot overcome the effects of a tech that affects the surrounding air molecules as described.

A better option may be to hide in one of his summons, preferably the chameleon to render himself invisible and to escape the first effect, while greatly reducing the effects of the 2nd part of this tech.