Wood is ninjutsu
Wood is made totally from chakra
Wood was never said to be anything apart from chakra.
Wood will be absorbed, not absorbed to leave dead wood but totally absorbed. People think because Hashi's trees can later grow means there not jutsu anymore but ask yourself, if Sasuke shoots a fireball at a forest and the fire is capable of spreading and burning down the whole forest, does that mean Sasuke's fireball wasn't a jutsu? If he shoots the same fireball at Nagato, would it or would it not get absorbed? In the same vein, just because Hashirama's wood was capable remaining and forming the landscape of Konoha doesn't mean its not a jutsu, it would still be easily absorbed. Another argument is because it is 'chakra converted to life force' that it can't be absorbed, well fire techniques are chakra transformed into fire and they get absorbed, you know why? Because according to the Databook, Pain absorbs jutsu 'regardless of transformation'
Conclusion: Mokuton on Nagato is just about as good as Naruto continually attacking Nagato will Rasengan and Sasuke continually attacking Nagato with fireballs: it's a pointless waste of chakra.
Without Mokuton, Hashirama's only other known jutsu is genjutsu of darkness, Nagato is a sensor so its also another fruitless waste of chakra as Nagato will ever be able to locate him.
As for Nagato's attacks: Shinra Tensei would be of much use as Hashirama has healing techniques that don't require seals and he can grow wood from his body to take the impact much like Katsuyu protected Konoha's citizens, however Bansho Ten'n will pull him in without fail, holding on to something with Mokuton is pointless as Kakashi tried that and still got pulled in, plus Nagato can launch missiles to destroy the Mokuton he's holding on to or destroy him while he's motionless between Bansho Ten'n pull and Mokuton's hold or have one of his summons destroy him.
Gedo Mazo is a level of destructive power I deem unnecessary but if Nagato feels like a quick battle, he can use this. The sealing dragon would be able to evade Mokuton and take Hashi's soul. Another option is Chibaku Tensei which would crush Hashirama to dust. He has no defense whatsoever
EMS Madara is an even worse match up.
Susanoo, Yasaka Magatama, Perfect Susanoo, Kyubi's attacks, large fire techs can ALL be absorbed. Nagato would get loads of chakra from his own attacks then kill him by drawing him in with Bansho Ten'n then ripping out his soul, while he's being drawn in he has no options as fire techs, Susanoo and its attacks would be easily absorbed. Madara's genjutsu is visual only and Nagato's not an idiot, he'll avoid eye contact.
Wood is ninjutsu
Wood is made totally from chakra
Wood was never said to be anything apart from chakra.
Wood will be absorbed, not absorbed to leave dead wood but totally absorbed. People think because Hashi's trees can later grow means there not jutsu anymore but ask yourself, if Sasuke shoots a fireball at a forest and the fire is capable of spreading and burning down the whole forest, does that mean Sasuke's fireball wasn't a jutsu? If he shoots the same fireball at Nagato, would it or would it not get absorbed? In the same vein, just because Hashirama's wood was capable remaining and forming the landscape of Konoha doesn't mean its not a jutsu, it would still be easily absorbed. Another argument is because it is 'chakra converted to life force' that it can't be absorbed, well fire techniques are chakra transformed into fire and they get absorbed, you know why? Because according to the Databook, Pain absorbs jutsu 'regardless of transformation'
Conclusion: Mokuton on Nagato is just about as good as Naruto continually attacking Nagato will Rasengan and Sasuke continually attacking Nagato with fireballs: it's a pointless waste of chakra.
Without Mokuton, Hashirama's only other known jutsu is genjutsu of darkness, Nagato is a sensor so its also another fruitless waste of chakra as Nagato will ever be able to locate him.
As for Nagato's attacks: Shinra Tensei would be of much use as Hashirama has healing techniques that don't require seals and he can grow wood from his body to take the impact much like Katsuyu protected Konoha's citizens, however Bansho Ten'n will pull him in without fail, holding on to something with Mokuton is pointless as Kakashi tried that and still got pulled in, plus Nagato can launch missiles to destroy the Mokuton he's holding on to or destroy him while he's motionless between Bansho Ten'n pull and Mokuton's hold or have one of his summons destroy him.
Gedo Mazo is a level of destructive power I deem unnecessary but if Nagato feels like a quick battle, he can use this. The sealing dragon would be able to evade Mokuton and take Hashi's soul. Another option is Chibaku Tensei which would crush Hashirama to dust. He has no defense whatsoever
EMS Madara is an even worse match up.
Susanoo, Yasaka Magatama, Perfect Susanoo, Kyubi's attacks, large fire techs can ALL be absorbed. Nagato would get loads of chakra from his own attacks then kill him by drawing him in with Bansho Ten'n then ripping out his soul, while he's being drawn in he has no options as fire techs, Susanoo and its attacks would be easily absorbed. Madara's genjutsu is visual only and Nagato's not an idiot, he'll avoid eye contact.
How the F**k is that healthy???????? Pretty retarded statement. :flaw::flaw:
What you mean is "Nagato after gaining access to ALL his powers (basically Gedo Mazo)". Healthy Nagato is Nagato before he summoned Gedo Mazo against Hanzo, and chakra rods impaled him. THAT Nagato could move, run, fly etc, and that Nagato can take Hashirama and EMS Madara in 1 vs 1 fight.
Healthy Nagato wouldnt even need Gedo Mazo to deal with Hashirama/EMS Madara. Just imagine 20 Nagato clones, all with the powers of EVERY PATH; unless you're a Rinnegan user, you're not beating that...
Stop talking out of the side of your neck...How much have you seen about healthy Nagato???Really you have no clue whatpower he had other than the all elements because that was the only think we got to see and know he could use. Again If Nagato was so powerful why did he call upon the power of the Gedo Mazo in the first place? Basicaly what your saying is he was stronger before he got power from the gedo mazo and I think that's BS. I don't remember Nagato ever calling out the Gedo Mazo after he got the chakra rods either but maybe were reading different mangas. I don't remember nagato being able to make 20 clones of himself either but maybe im wrong...
BS I have countered everything you have said,and gave scenerios on how hashi and Madara can win the battles.Both fight would be close but in the end Hashi or Madara would be the victor.
I stopped after reading this okay you keep giving madara all these power ups that he didn't have (not the way your saying anyways) lets get some stuff straight madara didn't have hashi cells while he had the 9 tails under his control so he didn't have mokuton or increased healing 2 Nagato fights naruto in kyuubi mode which is way better than 8 tailed mode and Nagato does pretty good so really what I'm saying is ether pick madara with the 9 tails or pick him with hashi cells not both also we don't know what is needed for perfect susanoo yet soo.....
I gave 2 versions Madara: Either EMS with the 9 tails or EMS/Rinnegan/Hashi cells
never mixed both was talking about ne or the other. I also believe both versions can defeat Nagato. 100% with rinnegan .
What do you mean we don't know what is needed lol? Sasunoo is from EMS you don't need Hashi cells to create it you just need to evolve it.
Wood is ninjutsu
Wood is made totally from chakra
Wood was never said to be anything apart from chakra.
Wood will be absorbed, not absorbed to leave dead wood but totally absorbed. People think because Hashi's trees can later grow means there not jutsu anymore but ask yourself, if Sasuke shoots a fireball at a forest and the fire is capable of spreading and burning down the whole forest, does that mean Sasuke's fireball wasn't a jutsu? If he shoots the same fireball at Nagato, would it or would it not get absorbed? In the same vein, just because Hashirama's wood was capable remaining and forming the landscape of Konoha doesn't mean its not a jutsu, it would still be easily absorbed. Another argument is because it is 'chakra converted to life force' that it can't be absorbed, well fire techniques are chakra transformed into fire and they get absorbed, you know why? Because according to the Databook, Pain absorbs jutsu 'regardless of transformation'
Conclusion: Mokuton on Nagato is just about as good as Naruto continually attacking Nagato will Rasengan and Sasuke continually attacking Nagato with fireballs: it's a pointless waste of chakra.
Without Mokuton, Hashirama's only other known jutsu is genjutsu of darkness, Nagato is a sensor so its also another fruitless waste of chakra as Nagato will ever be able to locate him.
As for Nagato's attacks: Shinra Tensei would be of much use as Hashirama has healing techniques that don't require seals and he can grow wood from his body to take the impact much like Katsuyu protected Konoha's citizens, however Bansho Ten'n will pull him in without fail, holding on to something with Mokuton is pointless as Kakashi tried that and still got pulled in, plus Nagato can launch missiles to destroy the Mokuton he's holding on to or destroy him while he's motionless between Bansho Ten'n pull and Mokuton's hold or have one of his summons destroy him.
Gedo Mazo is a level of destructive power I deem unnecessary but if Nagato feels like a quick battle, he can use this. The sealing dragon would be able to evade Mokuton and take Hashi's soul. Another option is Chibaku Tensei which would crush Hashirama to dust. He has no defense whatsoever
EMS Madara is an even worse match up.
Susanoo, Yasaka Magatama, Perfect Susanoo, Kyubi's attacks, large fire techs can ALL be absorbed. Nagato would get loads of chakra from his own attacks then kill him by drawing him in with Bansho Ten'n then ripping out his soul, while he's being drawn in he has no options as fire techs, Susanoo and its attacks would be easily absorbed. Madara's genjutsu is visual only and Nagato's not an idiot, he'll avoid eye contact.
First Wood has a physical form, like sand it cannot be absorbed.Sasuke flames, Narutos rasengan are all energy that can be absorbed,and when that path is taken out that defense cannot be used anymore. if Nagato absorbes himself he's leaving himself open for an attack,no mobility to counter.
The argument that Mokuton is useless just makes no sense. That cannot be a logical argument one way or the other.If it made Nagato expend his chakra alone it would be useful, and it would do a lot more then that.
Hashi abilities were Genjutsu,Sealing jutsu,Kinjutsu,taijutsu/Water/Earth, and this is just what we know. Mokuton was only his kekkei genkai.
You say it would be a very quick fight but this makes no sense. In the fight against Naruto, path were being taken out extreamly quickly. As soon as he figured out which had what ability he took that path out. Keep in mind Hashi Is also a genious and has a lot more battle experince.I like your argument because you at least backed p what you said but I still believe you are wrong.
There is no proof anywhere that Nagato can even call the Gedo Mazo out seeing that he never did after he had the chakra rods in him.The thing I noticed was Tobi and Nagato seem to use the gedo mazo very differently. Tobi has no chakra rods and uses the gedo Mazo directly.Nagato has chakra rods and seemsto use the power from the gedo mazo directly.Also we have never not seen Madara call out the gedo mazo either. I can';t say for certain that he can or can't use the gedo mazo bu one thing I can say was he never did the way tobi uses it.
The whole argument that mokuton would be useless because of bansho ten is also false. This is very easy to figure out. Instead of holding onto something do the opposite push off of the path that is pulling him in. Mokuton can be used in so many versitile ways and that what makes it so dangerous. Shinra tensai and Bansho ten would not be so effective against Hashi like it was to Naruto. And Naruto still figured out how to overcome it keep in mind...
The dragon is also easy to avoind. There are multiple ways. Creating a rock/wood barrier would be one way and the other which makes the most sense would be simple to bury yourself. Hashi Never would really have to life a finger in the whole fight hiself after he buried himself. He could use clones and Nagato would not know the difference.
Nagato can sense chakra but his paths cannot. They did not sense where the path was when Boss gama had the path in his mouth, and if the path were taken out it woudn't matter to much if he could sense or not because he would be beat very easily. Because Nagato lacks mobility he cannot defend from all angles at one time. If he is absorbing from one direction a clone or 2 or 10 could easily attack from multple direction.Even if he used shinra tensai he could only hold out so long before he would be defeated.
Ok i gave 2 Madaras: 1) Ems with the 9 tails, 2) madara rinnegan/ems/hashi cells
There is no chance to win against against Rinnegan Madara, he can do what Nagato does and a lot more.
The fight would be much more interesting with ems Madara.But that is also a fight that Nagato is unlikely to win.we saw how much chakra Nagato had to expend to stop the 6 tailed fox, and the 8 tails. The 9 tails unleashed without a host is a much much stronger foe. the first path that would be taken out would be the one that can absorb enegy. leaving the other open to get taken out pretty quicklly.Madara has nomany different weapon.Genjutsu,Perfect sasunoo,his wind fan,9 tails,fire, and himself. What stops the perfect sasunoo? Madara could easily use his fan to blow the paths toward his sasunoo then cut them to pieces. Deva path would have his hands full trying to keep the 9 tails at bay while Madara and sasunoo would pick apart the other paths.Comes down to way to may powerful attacks and ounce Madara takes out the path that can absorb it would be a matter of picking paths off.
After the paths are all taken out Nagato does not have much of a chance.
There is no basis other than he never did. But at the same time because he never did we don't know if he can use it this way. Tobi seems to be the only one that used the Gedo Mazo in this way, and Tobi also is the only person with the rinnegan that we have not seen use any of its powers.
Please also keep in Mind, Nagato said himself with info Jman could have beat him....And Naruto was only in SM when he faught him.Jman and SM Naruto are nowhere close to the power of Hashi or either Madara's Ems/Rinnegan. They both have a much better arsenal and Mor experience. Well Jman had a lot of exp but Naruto not even close.
Either way this is a great topic to debate and thnx to all that added thier opinions.
Chibaku Tensei. Attracts the surroundings in its direction and forms into a huge sphere. How Hashirama can counter this? Quite easily.
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Do you see Madara coming out from this huge tendril? He merged with this tendril and was hiding in there. If Chibaku Tensei begins to attract the surroundings, Hashirama, who is the user of the Mokuton, can simply cover and merge himself with his trees, what giving him a perfect hideout from being crushed by Chibaku Tenseis attractions. Now we have Owarij who claims that the attraction would release the power to literally splinter the trees and thus render Hashiramas hideout useless. But by that logic, Chibaku Tensei wouldn't even consist out of huge, compressed stones but would pulverize all matters it has attracted.
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Here you can even see trees being attracted by Chibaku Tensei without rendering into splinters. Considering, that Hashiramas trees are not only way huger, Chibaku Tensei itself will consist largely out of trees Hashirama created before. So in this case this will be a perfect hideout for Hashirama to avoid from being crushed. Sounds may simple for you as Nagato fans, but a good counter don't have to be always spectacular.
Shinra Tensei. Isn't even worth talking about. It blows away objects but don't really cause damage. While the toads were knocked down by their own weight, a normal sized and weighted person would tank this very well
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Bee is getting pushed away without any caused damage on him. And as for Hashiramas tree world, which is claimed to be repel by the Shinra Tensei, Hashirama is able to cover the whole landscape with his trees, not even Konohagakure, where a large scale Shinra Tensei with a long interval was needed, is comparable in size. The little forest that Nagato pushed away with his Shinra Tensei is also no comparison, since a single tendril is at least 20 times bigger than a tree. Furthermore, Hashirama has a direct counter for the Shinra Tensei, too.
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Narutos Chakra explosion was comparable to a large scale Shinra Tensei but was countered by Yamato by this way quite easily, though his Mokuton is not even a comparison to Hashiramas.
Bansho Tenin. Can be countered by many ways. Kakashi used a Bunshin, Hashirama can also.
Naruto countered Bansho Tenin by using his Chakra arm; Hashirama has a similar option.
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This Jutsu allows Hashirama to counter Bansho Tenin, it can crush the rock Nagato is using and can above crush Nagato - Bansho Tenin is more suicide for him than a help.
Jutsu-Absorption. You said, Preta can absorb the Mokuton, but this is wrong. Preta Path cannot absorb any kind of Ninjutsu, this is a mistake. It allows you to ban Chakra in big amounts. Furthermore it allows you to create a barrier in order to stop Ninjutsus. And here is your fault by comparing Jiraiyas oil with the Mokuton. Here, it does not matter from which matter the oil is, the technique itself is Chakra and cannot pass through the barrier - Here I would even agree that Preta can absorb Susanoo, since it consists out of Chakra, too. The Mokuton on the other hand does not consist out of Chakra, it is in fact a natural and physical matter which is created and controlled by using Chakra. Therefore Preta Path have to touch the wood in order to absorb its Chakra. But the trees of the Mokuton doesn't consist out of Chakra. Here, Hashiramas woods don't even differ from a human. Both are living beings which are living due to their Chakra. Absorb its Chakra and you leave dead wood, absorb all of a humans Chakra to 0 and he will die as well. What my point is, since Preta can't repel the Mokuton by its barrier but have to come into contact with it, the impact will simply crush him. If I am wrong, we have to see at least one example were Preta Path is absorbing in fact a natural matter.
Ningendou. It have to touch its target in order to remove his soul. This is kinda difficult, since a close combat would be a suicide as well for Nagato. In his battle against Jiraiya, s single kick was needed in order to stop Ningendou from coming close to him and during the whole battle Ningendous soul removal technique wasn't even useful. Now we have Ryuu who is claming that Hashirama will be caught by Nagatos Chameleon, whereby Nagato could take out his soul quite easily. First of all I doubt that Nagato would have taken his soul if Naruto had acted smarter (crushing the chameleon with his Rasengans instead of attacking Nagato). For Hashirama, the Chameleon isn't a problem, too. After being caught, all Hashirama has to do is to use his Mokuton in order to crush the Chameleon and Nagato as well.
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Do you see the huge stone Golem being crushed? This will await Nagato and his Chameleon as well. By a closer look, many of Nagatos techniques are more suicide for him than a help.
Asura Path. Isn't even worth talking about. Its physical strength is not comparable with the Mokuton and I think here we both agree. Against its rockets and lasers, Hashirama can simply cover himself with his Mokuton. Sasuke by himself covered himself with mere snakes in order to avoid Deidaras explosions.
What is to say about Naraka Path? Not useful.
Nagato can use all 5 elements but yet we haven't seen any of them. Hashirama can also use the Doton and Suiton to an unknown extent, but its extent is also a mere assumption.
Here you see, all of Nagatos techniques are countered. I could go on and show you how Hashirama could overrun Nagato with his techniques, but I think I'll make a break here.
he is having rinnegan + EMS still he says hashi can stop him.
so how can nagato who only have rinnegan can beat him ?
and i never saw nagato throwing 2 HUGE meteors, with help of his rinnegan :shrug:
the point is , madara knows almost everything about rinnegan and he also have EMS, still he says hashi can stop him... so i repeat again : so how can nagato who only have rinnegan can beat him ?
Its not how strong you are it's how you use your strengths, nagato has never had a need to use giant meteor's an madara was trying to test his power/overwhelm his enemy/show off, nagato doesnt have to do any of those thing. Not to metion Any woodstyle jutsu shown is countered by someone who can fly easy. In taijutsu nagato can take his soul, an since the 1st doesnt even know rinnegan powers he'll try an fail. But if he doesnt it doesnt matter, the planetary devastation can also finish the 1st. He has nothing strong enough to break out an nothing to stop him from getting sucked in. Nagato also mastered all the elements at the age of 10 so he's not only using the rinnegan. Not to metion that the rinnegan enables him to use any jutsu which is stated in his bio.
Its not how strong you are it's how you use your strengths, nagato has never had a need to use giant meteor's an madara was trying to test his power/overwhelm his enemy/show off, nagato doesnt have to do any of those thing. Not to metion Any woodstyle jutsu shown is countered by someone who can fly easy. In taijutsu nagato can take his soul, an since the 1st doesnt even know rinnegan powers he'll try an fail. But if he doesnt it doesnt matter, the planetary devastation can also finish the 1st. He has nothing strong enough to break out an nothing to stop him from getting sucked in. Nagato also mastered all the elements at the age of 10 so he's not only using the rinnegan. Not to metion that the rinnegan enables him to use any jutsu which is stated in his bio.[/QUOT
Before you read the rest read this........Coudn't Kishi have made edo Nagato the main baddass if he was as strong as some of you ppl say???????????? And instead he made Kabuto create Edo Madara right?? ok now feel free to read the rest
First your assuming the first would be in the fight instead of his clones.The first is one of the characters who created a kekkai genkai he woudn't be so dumb as to run out without figuring out his enemy. That is what clones are for , we have seen this by many lesser shinobi that the 1st honestly. Planetary devastation may not even work on the first, seeing that he has a way to shield himself with earth/wood jutsu. Naruto did not have this.It's funny I keep hearing so much about Nagato mastered all the elements but Kishi himself made him use rinnegan attacks instead. maybe this is due to the arrogance of thinking you are the next so6p or not , that we are not sure but in both fights Jman and Naruto,Nagato only used rinnegan attacks.Also maybe he knew the element attacks were not worth using or they would take to much chakra, we have no idea.Seems to me element attacks alone are not that amazing unless you create a kekkei genkai with them and add them together. Itachi still uses fire but it's more as a diversion and Tobi kabuto don't even use seingle elements. Sasuke created Kirin but needed someone else to use it .What we do know is after Nagato got the rods we only see him use attacks from the rinnegan.And is element attacks also don't seem to be on the klevel of Madara's either.
You want to use the Bio and the databook but why not just use what we have seen him do in the habits he has? In the Bio does it say he lost 2x? No....For kishi to make Nagato say that Jman himself with info could have beat him what does this mean?would there ever be a thread Jman with info could beat hashi or Madara...Hell no. Cause we all know this is not possible.
When you talk about a character you have to factor in there mental state and mental views.let's be real although Naruto took out all the paths Nagato killed himself(which dosn't mean Naruto coudn't)because he believed in naruto and thought he was wrong. Nagato thought to highly of himself and it shows when he underestimated the 9 tails. Kishi wrote it like this on purpose to explain the character.
On the other hand what Kishi writes about Hashi is much much difference. He not only has no weaknesess that we know but he was extreamly intelligent and stayed level headed. He's a thinker and a leader. Unlike Nagato who followed Tobi. This is a strength in battle. Not counting the only person to defeat Madara and gain the Mokuton.Nagato never made up his own kekkei genkai he just used what came to him. there are very few characters in the Naruto anime who even have the intellect to create a kekkei genkai.
Nagato was amazing I will not ever say he is not. But the way you ppl make him out to be a god is rediculous. Nagato was in a wheelchair lets be honest.In a fight this matters.he used the paths because it was better for him but Naruto in SM....again SM took all the paths out. If i made a thread about Hashi/Madara against the paths it would go anywhere because we all know they would take the paths out.Nagato was always amazing but after ppl saw him in his Edo or from what some ppl say complete form he became a god and that's BS. If he had that form in life we woudn't have this thread and he woudn't have lost 2x. But the paths weakened him greatly and having no mobility.it is not me who is making this odvious it was Kishi....You all saw when he got his perfect body and still lost, this is what Kishi wrote. Maybe Kabuto thought that would be another trump card but he lacked mobility. And Itachi is a beast .
I do not say nagato is not a beast but a god has no weaknesses ,Nagato does , and has a couple of them. Mobility + Ego.What are Hashi's weaknesses again???
What are Mokutons weaknesses?? None that Kishi has shown us. Acyually he continues to show us more, hashi using his life energy to infuse his Mokuton , Hashi being able to heal hmself with mokuton. I see nothing new about Nagato,actually we see him lose again while Madara takes on 5 Kages. 3 on 1 Nagato losses , % on 1 Madara hasn't yet.And bee and Naruto didn't kill Nagata, Itachi Did. This is because Nagato was never as strong as Madara.
Plain and simple. If Nagato was as bad as you ppl say Edo Nagato would be fighting the 5 kages ......not Edo Madara. This shows you what the writer of the anime thinks and who he makes stronger... Let's just be real. And the person fighting the 5 kages also says.....wghat again?????/ the Only person that can defeat him is whoooo??? Nagato????? NO..... Hashirama Senju....
Its not how strong you are it's how you use your strengths, nagato has never had a need to use giant meteor's an madara was trying to test his power/overwhelm his enemy/show off, nagato doesnt have to do any of those thing. Not to metion Any woodstyle jutsu shown is countered by someone who can fly easy. In taijutsu nagato can take his soul, an since the 1st doesnt even know rinnegan powers he'll try an fail. But if he doesnt it doesnt matter, the planetary devastation can also finish the 1st. He has nothing strong enough to break out an nothing to stop him from getting sucked in. Nagato also mastered all the elements at the age of 10 so he's not only using the rinnegan. Not to metion that the rinnegan enables him to use any jutsu which is stated in his bio.[/QUOT
Before you read the rest read this........Coudn't Kishi have made edo Nagato the main baddass if he was as strong as some of you ppl say???????????? And instead he made Kabuto create Edo Madara right?? ok now feel free to read the rest
First your assuming the first would be in the fight instead of his clones.The first is one of the characters who created a kekkai genkai he woudn't be so dumb as to run out without figuring out his enemy. That is what clones are for , we have seen this by many lesser shinobi that the 1st honestly. Planetary devastation may not even work on the first, seeing that he has a way to shield himself with earth/wood jutsu. Naruto did not have this.It's funny I keep hearing so much about Nagato mastered all the elements but Kishi himself made him use rinnegan attacks instead. maybe this is due to the arrogance of thinking you are the next so6p or not , that we are not sure but in both fights Jman and Naruto,Nagato only used rinnegan attacks.Also maybe he knew the element attacks were not worth using or they would take to much chakra, we have no idea.Seems to me element attacks alone are not that amazing unless you create a kekkei genkai with them and add them together. Itachi still uses fire but it's more as a diversion and Tobi kabuto don't even use seingle elements. Sasuke created Kirin but needed someone else to use it .What we do know is after Nagato got the rods we only see him use attacks from the rinnegan.And is element attacks also don't seem to be on the klevel of Madara's either.
You want to use the Bio and the databook but why not just use what we have seen him do in the habits he has? In the Bio does it say he lost 2x? No....For kishi to make Nagato say that Jman himself with info could have beat him what does this mean?would there ever be a thread Jman with info could beat hashi or Madara...Hell no. Cause we all know this is not possible.
When you talk about a character you have to factor in there mental state and mental views.let's be real although Naruto took out all the paths Nagato killed himself(which dosn't mean Naruto coudn't)because he believed in naruto and thought he was wrong. Nagato thought to highly of himself and it shows when he underestimated the 9 tails. Kishi wrote it like this on purpose to explain the character.
On the other hand what Kishi writes about Hashi is much much difference. He not only has no weaknesess that we know but he was extreamly intelligent and stayed level headed. He's a thinker and a leader. Unlike Nagato who followed Tobi. This is a strength in battle. Not counting the only person to defeat Madara and gain the Mokuton.Nagato never made up his own kekkei genkai he just used what came to him. there are very few characters in the Naruto anime who even have the intellect to create a kekkei genkai.
Nagato was amazing I will not ever say he is not. But the way you ppl make him out to be a god is rediculous. Nagato was in a wheelchair lets be honest.In a fight this matters.he used the paths because it was better for him but Naruto in SM....again SM took all the paths out. If i made a thread about Hashi/Madara against the paths it would go anywhere because we all know they would take the paths out.Nagato was always amazing but after ppl saw him in his Edo or from what some ppl say complete form he became a god and that's BS. If he had that form in life we woudn't have this thread and he woudn't have lost 2x. But the paths weakened him greatly and having no mobility.it is not me who is making this odvious it was Kishi....You all saw when he got his perfect body and still lost, this is what Kishi wrote. Maybe Kabuto thought that would be another trump card but he lacked mobility. And Itachi is a beast .
I do not say nagato is not a beast but a god has no weaknesses ,Nagato does , and has a couple of them. Mobility + Ego.What are Hashi's weaknesses again???
What are Mokutons weaknesses?? None that Kishi has shown us. Acyually he continues to show us more, hashi using his life energy to infuse his Mokuton , Hashi being able to heal hmself with mokuton. I see nothing new about Nagato,actually we see him lose again while Madara takes on 5 Kages. 3 on 1 Nagato losses , % on 1 Madara hasn't yet.And bee and Naruto didn't kill Nagata, Itachi Did. This is because Nagato was never as strong as Madara.
1st off madara was used because 1 he had both rinnegan an sharingan, but more importantly because of who he was. Which is why the episode was called "power in the name" not to metion he would make greater impact with the 1st cells because he's the only one who's actually seen them that was brought back.
2 your forgeting nagato's a sensory type so he can tell if its a clone.
3 If you read an watch the show, you saw deva path punch the ground an create an ocean so his usage of the water element at least kage level. AND i dont wanna hear that "if it's not in the manag it's not true" bullshit cause i dout kishi would allow the show to show a bunch of on true bullshit.
An yea J man could beat the paths, but nagato is a whooooooooole never fight. The other paths honesty only do one thing it's not like hardly any of them were super strong besides deva path. Not to mention deva path was not even part of the fight really until the very end. In both J man an espeacially naruto's fight. If it was all 6 from the begining fight, i think it would of been completely different.
An last his fight in edo. He would of killed bee an naruto easy an we all saw that. Itachi got off a lucky hit with a one hit weapon. But i wouldnt judge nagato off that fight because you have to remember he was a mindless puppet at that point an being control by someone who really knows very little about the rinnegan or nagato's true power...
1st off madara was used because 1 he had both rinnegan an sharingan, but more importantly because of who he was. Which is why the episode was called "power in the name" not to metion he would make greater impact with the 1st cells because he's the only one who's actually seen them that was brought back.
2 your forgeting nagato's a sensory type so he can tell if its a clone.
3 If you read an watch the show, you saw deva path punch the ground an create an ocean so his usage of the water element at least kage level. AND i dont wanna hear that "if it's not in the manag it's not true" bullshit cause i dout kishi would allow the show to show a bunch of on true bullshit.
An yea J man could beat the paths, but nagato is a whooooooooole never fight. The other paths honesty only do one thing it's not like hardly any of them were super strong besides deva path. Not to mention deva path was not even part of the fight really until the very end. In both J man an espeacially naruto's fight. If it was all 6 from the begining fight, i think it would of been completely different.
An last his fight in edo. He would of killed bee an naruto easy an we all saw that. Itachi got off a lucky hit with a one hit weapon. But i wouldnt judge nagato off that fight because you have to remember he was a mindless puppet at that point an being control by someone who really knows very little about the rinnegan or nagato's true power...
B.S, B.S ,B.S and B.S.
The fact is he lost twice.
At first you say he lost bcuz all the paths werent there.
Then when he was "complete", you say he was a mindless puppet. According to the logic from Nagato fans I have seen, it shouldnt matter whether he was mindless or not becuz of what he is capable of with his "mini god" powers. Yes his paths were awesome, but not perfect. If they were perfect and Nagato was so great, someone like Itachi with only a MS wouldnt have been able to take him out.
Its not how strong you are it's how you use your strengths, nagato has never had a need to use giant meteor's an madara was trying to test his power/overwhelm his enemy/show off, nagato doesnt have to do any of those thing. Not to metion Any woodstyle jutsu shown is countered by someone who can fly easy. In taijutsu nagato can take his soul, an since the 1st doesnt even know rinnegan powers he'll try an fail. But if he doesnt it doesnt matter, the planetary devastation can also finish the 1st. He has nothing strong enough to break out an nothing to stop him from getting sucked in. Nagato also mastered all the elements at the age of 10 so he's not only using the rinnegan. Not to metion that the rinnegan enables him to use any jutsu which is stated in his bio.[/QUOT
Before you read the rest read this........Coudn't Kishi have made edo Nagato the main baddass if he was as strong as some of you ppl say???????????? And instead he made Kabuto create Edo Madara right?? ok now feel free to read the rest
First your assuming the first would be in the fight instead of his clones.The first is one of the characters who created a kekkai genkai he woudn't be so dumb as to run out without figuring out his enemy. That is what clones are for , we have seen this by many lesser shinobi that the 1st honestly. Planetary devastation may not even work on the first, seeing that he has a way to shield himself with earth/wood jutsu. Naruto did not have this.It's funny I keep hearing so much about Nagato mastered all the elements but Kishi himself made him use rinnegan attacks instead. maybe this is due to the arrogance of thinking you are the next so6p or not , that we are not sure but in both fights Jman and Naruto,Nagato only used rinnegan attacks.Also maybe he knew the element attacks were not worth using or they would take to much chakra, we have no idea.Seems to me element attacks alone are not that amazing unless you create a kekkei genkai with them and add them together. Itachi still uses fire but it's more as a diversion and Tobi kabuto don't even use seingle elements. Sasuke created Kirin but needed someone else to use it .What we do know is after Nagato got the rods we only see him use attacks from the rinnegan.And is element attacks also don't seem to be on the klevel of Madara's either.
You want to use the Bio and the databook but why not just use what we have seen him do in the habits he has? In the Bio does it say he lost 2x? No....For kishi to make Nagato say that Jman himself with info could have beat him what does this mean?would there ever be a thread Jman with info could beat hashi or Madara...Hell no. Cause we all know this is not possible.
When you talk about a character you have to factor in there mental state and mental views.let's be real although Naruto took out all the paths Nagato killed himself(which dosn't mean Naruto coudn't)because he believed in naruto and thought he was wrong. Nagato thought to highly of himself and it shows when he underestimated the 9 tails. Kishi wrote it like this on purpose to explain the character.
On the other hand what Kishi writes about Hashi is much much difference. He not only has no weaknesess that we know but he was extreamly intelligent and stayed level headed. He's a thinker and a leader. Unlike Nagato who followed Tobi. This is a strength in battle. Not counting the only person to defeat Madara and gain the Mokuton.Nagato never made up his own kekkei genkai he just used what came to him. there are very few characters in the Naruto anime who even have the intellect to create a kekkei genkai.
Nagato was amazing I will not ever say he is not. But the way you ppl make him out to be a god is rediculous. Nagato was in a wheelchair lets be honest.In a fight this matters.he used the paths because it was better for him but Naruto in SM....again SM took all the paths out. If i made a thread about Hashi/Madara against the paths it would go anywhere because we all know they would take the paths out.Nagato was always amazing but after ppl saw him in his Edo or from what some ppl say complete form he became a god and that's BS. If he had that form in life we woudn't have this thread and he woudn't have lost 2x. But the paths weakened him greatly and having no mobility.it is not me who is making this odvious it was Kishi....You all saw when he got his perfect body and still lost, this is what Kishi wrote. Maybe Kabuto thought that would be another trump card but he lacked mobility. And Itachi is a beast .
I do not say nagato is not a beast but a god has no weaknesses ,Nagato does , and has a couple of them. Mobility + Ego.What are Hashi's weaknesses again???
What are Mokutons weaknesses?? None that Kishi has shown us. Acyually he continues to show us more, hashi using his life energy to infuse his Mokuton , Hashi being able to heal hmself with mokuton. I see nothing new about Nagato,actually we see him lose again while Madara takes on 5 Kages. 3 on 1 Nagato losses , % on 1 Madara hasn't yet.And bee and Naruto didn't kill Nagata, Itachi Did. This is because Nagato was never as strong as Madara.
Internet is giving problems, so I won't be posting alot of pics
I'll start of with preta path once again, seeing that that's one of the biggest deciding factors in this match up
Once the wood passes through the barrier and starts getting its chakra Drained, yes the dead chakra less wood would get through.. I'm not saying Preta will absorb the wood as a whole, No, I'm saying that he can drain the chakra OUT of the wood, and cause it to be normal wood..
You see gaara attached some sand to Madara's sand, he sucked the chakra out of it and the sand just fell to the ground. .This is exactly what will happen to the wood, it will be completely useless in the fight, and since the wood is normally connected to all the others, the draining process will take place on a wide scale, If you check the sand , They were all connected, and all got drained
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You can't use that as an excuse, claiming that only fodder died from it etc.. That my friend is called Plot no jutsu.. Kishi has no reason to kill off any main or important side characters of the konoha 11 like that..
But he did show how dangerous it is when it killed SEVERAL anbu and other ninja easily.. It's no difference..
You should know that plot no jutsu isn't a factor what so ever in a hypothetical versus thread
Of course Nagato will know if Hashirama survived , As i've said already he's a sensor, and you are underestimating what he's capable of, He'll know what Hashirama does the moment he did it
Once again, the Forest was large, but it was NOT the size of an entire village.. Just look at Madara's Katon, Look how large it is, and the sheer area it covered..... The entire drawing there just looks large, But madara's katon would have never covered even half of konoha...
My point of mentioning the summons was that they would play a part in this fight.. But you are underestimating them totally.. This is summons + nagato + Gedo mazo ( with a purple dragon flying around doing his swoops)
And hashirama has to defend against them ALL...He can't escape the dragon if he's being pulled in by deva..Let's not forget the many homing rocket missiles that will also becoming at him
I shall end this now. I will counter your arguments and give mine as well, I will make you realize who is the superior one in this battle, Owarij.
Once the wood passes through the barrier and starts getting its chakra Drained, yes the dead chakra less wood would get through.. I'm not saying Preta will absorb the wood as a whole, No, I'm saying that he can drain the chakra OUT of the wood, and cause it to be normal wood..
You see gaara attached some sand to Madara's sand, he sucked the chakra out of it and the sand just fell to the ground. .This is exactly what will happen to the wood, it will be completely useless in the fight, and since the wood is normally connected to all the others, the draining process will take place on a wide scale, If you check the sand , They were all connected, and all got drained
With already your first post you have miscalculated yourself. Madara did not absorb the Chakra out of the sand. Mizukage mixed her Ninjutsu with sand; Madara absorbed the Ninjutsu itself but was not able to do it with the sand.
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Do you see what Gaara is saying? 'It is just sand' - and Madara gets bury.
I already explained, that the barrier can only keep away Chakra, but since the Mokuton is not Chakra by itself but a physical and natural mattar, it cannot be stopped by the barrier. This fact was confirmed by Madara himself.
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Madara: 'They know that only physical attacks work against me - Further it was shown by the fact that Madara cannot absorb the Chakra of the sand, though Gaara is controlling him.
Secondly. The third databook confirmes by indirect things, that the Mokuton does not consist out of Chakra, whereby the absorption won't work. The third databook confirms, that the Mokuton is a duplication of Cells - Of Hashiramas ones. If he creates a forest out of his cells, he controls the trees due to the Chakra in its source of life; further its root. The trees itself are just a duplication of his cells, what goes also for the Mokuton shooting out of his body. And even if it was shallow said that any Ninjutsu can be absorbed, so is Chakra the prerequisite to do this. So we have several facts which are based on the Manga and Databook which say that the Mokuton cannot be absorbed.
Madara confirms that only physical attacks are working on him and surprisingly the Chakra out of the sand cannot be absorbed - the Mokuton is physical as well
The Mokuton is rather a duplication of cells than out of Chakra, its control happens due to an additional production of cells and the controlling in its roots (their source of life), further confirmed by the third databook
And since Preta-Path neither absorbs or stop physical things nor absorbs cells, your argument is invalid - The Mokuton cannot be absorbed.
You can't use that as an excuse, claiming that only fodder died from it etc.. That my friend is called Plot no jutsu.. Kishi has no reason to kill off any main or important side characters of the konoha 11 like that..
But he did show how dangerous it is when it killed SEVERAL anbu and other ninja easily.. It's no difference..
You should know that plot no jutsu isn't a factor what so ever in a hypothetical versus thread
Well, taking 'Plot no Jutsu' as an argument is kinda poor from your side since we know that fodders are low Ninjas that can't resist much. The Shinra Tensei, as for you to know, is not meant to kill its opponents but rather to keep a distance by pushing any objects away. No skilled Ninja would be seriously damaged by the push since the actual impact with the ground causes the damage and can be escaped by keeping his balance. Nagatos 'large scale' Shinra Tensei didn't show any effect on bee apart from pushing him away:
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In fact the Shinra Tensei never caused serious damage apart from pushing someone away, neither normal sized or large sized.
Of course Nagato will know if Hashirama survived , As i've said already he's a sensor, and you are underestimating what he's capable of, He'll know what Hashirama does the moment he did it
Even if Nagato will know that Hashirama has survived, it will not make the difference. One way or other, Hashirama will have survived Chibaku Tensei by a simple way. Whether he will keep Chibaku Tensei up or not will not make any difference, since Hashirama is in safe there. Nagato will be the only one who have to fit Chibaku Tensei always with Chakra. Think twice before posting.
Once again, the Forest was large, but it was NOT the size of an entire village.. Just look at Madara's Katon, Look how large it is, and the sheer area it covered..... The entire drawing there just looks large, But madara's katon would have never covered even half of konoha..
And again the thing with the size. First of all, the by Madara created forest overcomes the size of Konoha indeed:
Do you see how large is only one part of this forest? Madaras Susanoo, whose single hand is huger than a human, is nothing compared to it, not even Madaras extremely huge Katon. And in this picture was not even shown the full size, for example the part with the meteors.
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Do you see the tendrils continue? They are going to an end we cannot even see. One of the many Susanoos you are seeing, have only the diameter size of one tendril at least.
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Above this was only a taste of someone who is using the Mokuton with just Hashiramas implanted cells. Hashirama, who is the original performer of the Mokuton with the strong cells everyone is seeking for, would create forests even bigger.
Anyway I don't get your point. Even if Nagato repels such a huge forest, Hashirama will able to control the tendrils furthermore and let them grow again, while the huge interval of Nagatos Shinra Tensei will render Deva-Path useless (though Nagatos techniques are faster according to Naruto, the interval is a part of this technique, at least when proven otherwise).
My point of mentioning the summons was that they would play a part in this fight.. But you are underestimating them totally.. This is summons + nagato + Gedo mazo ( with a purple dragon flying around doing his swoops)
And hashirama has to defend against them ALL...He can't escape the dragon if he's being pulled in by deva..Let's not forget the many homing rocket missiles that will also becoming at him
Your last statement is a pity as well. As I explained, the summonings won't cause him trouble, since they are not even resist. A single Mokuton technique in form of a little tree should crush all summonings, since they couldn't even resist a merely Katon-Technique, Jiraiyas hair or Sakuras hair. Considering that Hashirama can control his tendrils in order to crush his opponents and the fact that no one is sending out all of his summons at once, 'cause they would just disturb the fight and make it confused, the summonings are no matter for him. Especially if Hashirama can send out his Bunshins who can use the Mokuton as well. The cerberus by the way can be paralyzed by the Mokutons pollen, aside from Nagato. Since the pollen are not chakra, they neither can be sensed nor absorbed, Nagato can't avoid them.
The thing with Gedo Mazo may sounds as an acceptable argument but is also very faulty. First of all we have to take a look at its size. It has a monstrous size, where normal sized people are ants compared to it. Its monstrous size and power is for both, Hashirama and Nagato a problem, since Gedo Mazo will go on a rampage while both will fight between its feet. What would be the sense of sending out this thing, if Gedo Mazo starts to destroy the surroundings and go on a rampage, while Nagato is on its radius when fighting Hashirama? Therefore, Gedo Mazo is a usefu technique in order to clean the maps, but in an actual fight against the opponent and the user, Gedo Mazo is more an obstacle than a help. This was the first flaw. The second one is, that Hashirama possesses the power to suppress the Bijuchakra, what counts for Gedo Mazo as well. After all he fought Kurama, too and sealed him away. The third fault is your 'purple dragon' argument. Our current state of knowledge is, that Nagato has to be connected with Gedo Mazo, what requires to be pierced by rods and giving his whole Chakra away by turning into a cripple - After all the Outer-Path grant you the ability to 'stand' between life and death, what has nothing to do with Gedo Mazo. Once the purple dragon is used, this move can be seen as his last option, since he won't be able to fight after this. Counters for this are simple.
He can cover himself with wood in order to grant himself protection. The purple Dragon showed that he cannot pass through solid objects such as the ground. The same will go for the Mokuton and the Doton Hashirama can use.
Taju Mokuton Bunshins. These clones are capable to fight since they are out of his cells, too and cannot be killed by a hit. Since the clonces do not have a sould, the purple dragon cannot work. All Hashirama has to do when seeing Nagato using an unknown technique, is to send out 10 clones in order to 'test' it. while hiding himself in any tree or tendril. May sounds simple for people like you, who are only based on a Ninjutsu spam which has to be countered by a Ninjutsu spam as well, by this is a solid, of evidence supported fight. The purple dragon will not take out any soul from a clone, while the clones by themselves will be able to use the Mokuton as well. Not only the purple dragon will only be a self-harming technique, this situation will grant the clones an open attack too, in order to crush him
Last but not least, who says, that the Bijus power belongs to Nagato? Yeah, he sealed away the Biju into Gedo Mazo in his lifetime but is death now. Also Hashirama possessed all the Biju in his lifetime. So actually this is a point of contention whether and why Nagato should use the tailed beasts as his own instead of Hashirama. So a fair fight would be, that both, Hashirama and Nagato are using their own powers.
Many flaws, but expected from you.
Now let us go the other way around, I will show you how Hashirama will overrun Nagato.
First of all, let's take a look at Nagatos options that I refuted in the main.
Preta-Path won't work against the Mokuton, stated by several facts from the Manga and databook I have posted before.
Chibaku Tensei can be countered by a simply way, as we already discussed.
Bansho Tenin can be countered as well
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Asura Path is no worth talking about, his strength is inferior to the Mokuton and will being crushed in the case of a direct combat.
Ningendou have to come to a close combat with Hashirama in order to take his soul. With Jiraiya it ended with a kick into his face, Hashirama can use his powerful Mokuton in any close battle in order to crush its opponents and grant himself protection as well. For the chameleon who could catch Hashirama, he has a good counter as well in order to crush it aside of Nagato:
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The counter for Bansho Tenin and the soul removal would also be a direct one hit for Nagato, as simply as that. But there is an other option, too. Let 20 of his clones to take place on the fight aside him. The Tajuu Mokuton Bunshins are very capable for fight, since they are not out of Chakra but created by duplicating his cells - This clones do not disappear when being hit, can use the Mokuton as well and most importantly no soul to be removed. Nagato on the other side won't figure out where the original Hashirama is.
For your Animal-Path I gave my arguments already, they are not resistant and nothing but fodder for Hashiramas clones and his Mokuton, just like they were fodder for a merely Katon, Jiraiyas Hair and Sakuras punch. For Gedo Mazo I gave my statement as well.
Naraka-Path, we both agree that it is useless for this battle.
And now, what stays is the Shinra Tensei as the only useful option. And unfortunately, this technique can't even cause serious damage.
Now let us look on Nagatos options in order to counter Hashiramas techniques.
How Nagato will avoid the pollen, caused by the flowers of Hashiramas tree world? Once the forest is created, the flowers are starting to produce pollen in vast amounts. Since the pollen are not Chakra, they neither can be seen nor sensed. The pollen will cover the whole air and will cause a paralyzing effect. Now I would gladly see Nagatos counter for this.
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. Do you see all five Kages falling asleep after enhaling the pollen?
What will Nagato do, if Hashirama sends out 20 Tajuu Mokuton Bunshins to face Nagato? The difference of Kage Bunshins and Mokuton Bunshins is, that the former are just out of chakra made shadow clones, while the Mokuton Bunshins are created by reproducing real, human cells. Thus, they cannot be killed by a hit but can fight furthermore. Though the Shinra Tensei will may push them away, this won't stop the Clones from further attacking Nagato. Not only the Clones are more resistant and comparable to a human body, the clones can use the Mokuton as well in order to crush Nagato and protect themselves. Above Clones do not have a soul, whereby the soul removal will be useless. If the summonings are not already crushed, the clones can handle them by using their Mokuton as well, considering Hashirama can produce even more clones (Madara with just from Hashirama implanted cells used 25 clones easily). So what Nagato have to face Hashiramas Tajuu Mokuton Bunshins? Preta Path is useless against the Clones and the Mokuton, Bansho Tenin is useless as well, the soul removal will not work, the summonings are a pity, Asura-Paths rockets can be countered by just using the Mokuton as a protection and its physical strength isn't compareble to the Mokuton Bunshins using their Mokuton, and Naraka-Path is anyway useless. Chibaku Tensei is, as I explained with facts, countered too. So what Nagato has actually to face a bunch of Mokuton Bunshins who are resistant and use the Mokuton as well? Only the Shinra Tensei to keep his distance from them, without even causing damage. And remember, after a few Shinra Tenseis Kakashi already figured out its weak spot.
How Nagato intend to kill Hashirama? As for the Tajuu Mokuton Bunshins, Nagatos techniques will cause on Hashirama less damage as well, since he can counter almost anything by using his Mokuton as a good defense or overwhelming offense. Especially if we are talking about the original Hashirama. The only think Nagato could do here is also to rely on his Shinra Tensei in order to keep his distance. All the other techniques, such as Asura, Ningendou, Preta and Chikushodo were already countered by me. And here we have the next factor - Hashiramas recovery. Hashirama was known as the best healer, he was able to heal wounds without even forming hand seals. Tsunade, who is known as the best healer of the world right now, is accoring to Madara nothing compared to him. Only when she activated her seal, Madara mentioned, that this is Hashiramas recovery. And should I show you, what Tsunades recovery is capable of? Resisting Susanoos swords, heal huge flesh wounds and fighting while being pierced by two of Susanoos swords.
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Even if Nagato manages to seriously damage Hashirama (what I highly doubt), Hashiramas recovery will render all that useless.
Hashirama has a counter for any of Nagatos technique, Nagato has not.
Now what will happen if Nagato will face Hashirama, who is using his Mokuton, possesses an overwhelming recovery, can use a bunch of Mokuton Bunshins who can use the Mokuton as well, on a battlefield Hashirama has changed into his advantage and pollen spreading around the air which brought all five Kages falling asleep?
Do you seriously continue to say, that Hashirama will be overrun of Nagatos techniques and is inferior to him?
To be honest, you are pathetic.
Do you realize, why Hashirama has his reputation? A power considered a fairy tale, a man who collected several Bijus by suppress their power with Mokuton, a man who faced and defeated Madara with his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, what includes aside of Genjutsus and Amaterasu the perfect Susanoo, and the Kyuubi on top? Do you realize somewhat? Your statements are invalid, nothing but assumptions and idiocy. Hashirama is stronger than Nagato and this is a fact boy, you compare the greatest legend apart from the Rikudo Sennin with Nagato.
I hope that now all will accept the fact, that Hashirama is stronger.
Well firstly you quoted the wrong picture, and you're attacking an entirely different argument
When i said madara soaked up the sand, I was reffering to when gaara latched sand onto his arm and pulled him to naruto's rasenshruiken..
The next scan after he uses preta, the sand and all that was connected to it falls to the ground lifeless
The answer is YES he can absorb the sand...But the sand was never MADE from chakra.. he picks normal sand up and controls it WITH chakra..
The wood as uzumaki 16 already covered in detail, is made from chakra, it is chakra, and is controlled by chakra.. Just like haku's ice.. These things are all ninjutsu....
I've already countered flower world.. I've said it already, Shinra tensei will blow it down, It was on a much larger scale than onooki's technique by FAR, and onoki did a great job at destroying it
Even mei realized there was pollen in the air.. Shinra tensei will easily blow it away
Once again, kage bunshins? Firstly you are listing a feat of Edo madara, who has chakra amounts of madara +hashirama + the edo source... First flaw..
2ND Flaw is counters have already been said.
It's called gedo mazo, and his soul dragon...
Hashirama can't "supress" its chakra, because the bijuu's are all sealed within it.... You have no proof what so ever that hashirama can even supress a Jinchuriki like bee..
Is that what you're saying? Because madara would have easily done that to naruto ....
You have literally no good argument to defend against gedo mazo, except that one piece of bs excuse
When you can even formulate a good defence for gedo mazo, reply to me
And hashirama's abiltiies were a fairytail like so6p
NAGATO'S ABILITIES ARE THAT OF THE SAGE OF 6 PATHS...
and according to tobi he is the third sage of six paths
pathetic indeed
You try to counter his summonings with more bs excuses
Firstly as I said, Flower world is out the moment it goes up via shinra tensei... His cerebrus etc will not be affected..
You also seem to not realize that one of the summonings can fly, the other can go invisible...
okay... i didn't read that huge post U_U and i will like to post my argument to why hashi > nagato .
First of all,
Hashi would start off with his wood clone , just to know what opponent he is fighting.
Hashi's clones are so perfect, that only madara could detect them with his special EMS . - fact.
Just like all nagato fans are saying , nagato would use gedo mazo in his first turn because of no particular reason and try to kill him, since a clone don't have a soul of its own, it will remain uneffected and nagato's technique will be backfired on him only.
first of all nagato has to find a way to detect if its a clone or not, to beat hashi.
and also hashirama clone can use all of the hashirama abilities such as self healing without jutsus and mokuton , as madara's clone could use susano.
Even gaara was not able to detect that madara he sealed was just a mere clone.and we all know how good gaara is at sensing as he detected even muu.
...
Gedo Mazo
Gedo mazo contains chakra of 7 bijjus.
Hashirama once had some bijjus in his control since he CAN suppress their chakra.
So he can even suppress gedo mazo's chakra as gedo mazo contain's bijju's chakra only.
Yamato have shown multiple times how he can suppress chakra with his mokuton.
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He even suppressed kisame's chakra (when he trapped him to get intel)
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So, the hashirama, who is the real owner of wood release ,and was able to own some bijjus, can obvioulsy suppress gedo mazo's chakra and also, nagato's chakra.
And shinra tensei and chibaku tensei can be countered by this
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also if any of the attacks by nagato hits hashi, he can heal himself without even using handsigns...
You people say, nagato would just fly away with his summon to get away from mokuton and flower world jutsus...
but even nagato don't know about hashi's abilities , so he would inhale them because he don;t know its poison...
Remember, kages knew , its poison , and only thats why they flew away, nagato don't know it,
so, he will not react like that and get paralyzed/poisoned...
and once he get caught in this, i don't have to say what will be the consequences.
Well firstly you quoted the wrong picture, and you're attacking an entirely different argument
When i said madara soaked up the sand, I was reffering to when gaara latched sand onto his arm and pulled him to naruto's rasenshruiken..
The next scan after he uses preta, the sand and all that was connected to it falls to the ground lifeless
The answer is YES he can absorb the sand...But the sand was never MADE from chakra.. he picks normal sand up and controls it WITH chakra..
The wood as uzumaki 16 already covered in detail, is made from chakra, it is chakra, and is controlled by chakra.. Just like haku's ice.. These things are all ninjutsu....
I've already countered flower world.. I've said it already, Shinra tensei will blow it down, It was on a much larger scale than onooki's technique by FAR, and onoki did a great job at destroying it
Even mei realized there was pollen in the air.. Shinra tensei will easily blow it away
Once again, kage bunshins? Firstly you are listing a feat of Edo madara, who has chakra amounts of madara +hashirama + the edo source... First flaw..
2ND Flaw is counters have already been said.
It's called gedo mazo, and his soul dragon...
Hashirama can't "supress" its chakra, because the bijuu's are all sealed within it.... You have no proof what so ever that hashirama can even supress a Jinchuriki like bee..
Is that what you're saying? Because madara would have easily done that to naruto ....
You have literally no good argument to defend against gedo mazo, except that one piece of bs excuse
When you can even formulate a good defence for gedo mazo, reply to me
And hashirama's abiltiies were a fairytail like so6p
NAGATO'S ABILITIES ARE THAT OF THE SAGE OF 6 PATHS...
and according to tobi he is the third sage of six paths
pathetic indeed
You try to counter his summonings with more bs excuses
Firstly as I said, Flower world is out the moment it goes up via shinra tensei... His cerebrus etc will not be affected..
You also seem to not realize that one of the summonings can fly, the other can go invisible...
The reason I haven't posted argument is due to the fact that i'm late and a whole lot of biased and unrealistic posts have been made that I simply cant counter them all.
First of all, I never said that hashi> nagato. But I said it is a fact nagato has no relevant physical attacks which KO's hashi(meaning the fight will be more complex than u make it seem)
Secondly, it assumed that hashi wont mukoton clone when fighting multiple opponents which leaves him wide open for attacks.
Thirdly, if nagato has gezo, do we say hashi also has 7 bijuus? In which case gezo doesnt have bijuus? The summoning of gezo takes a considerable amount of time, the piercing of the rods b4 the dragon comes out gives hashi(an experienced warlord) time to counter gezo(am certain he knows of). Seeing as hanzo had time to make a slow ass hand seal even when the dragon was upon him.
There is soo much flaw in the way u have narrated this fight that i cant possibly begin an argument
And nagato in my opinion is more powerful but is 1/2 s06p. Hashi was not known to progress to the equivalent of the sages body but like EMS, he was close. Maybe its just me misinterpreting u but u seem to think hashi isnt even close to nagato in terms of pure power
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