My thoughts on if Hagoromo ever had Sharingan

Did Hagoromo ever have a Sharingan?

  • Nope, just Rinnegan

    Votes: 9 64.3%
  • Yes, I believe in the Anime!

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • Nope, and only his DNA is required to get Rinnegan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nope, but unlocking DNA does require Sharingan

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14

Floydical

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After reading and responding to the threads about the recent anime fillers, I've come to a conclusion on the matter. My short answer is no, I do not think its logical for Hagoromo to have ever had sharingan in the first place. Now its not that I didn't give it considerable consideration either, because I certainly did. At first I thought it made great sense, then later I was torn on the idea. Now, however, I'm fairly certain he never had it in the first place and I'll try my best to convey why I believe this.

First and foremost, Hagoromo is unique. By this I mean no one has ever been born quite like him since. So if ANYONE possessed the capability to skip the Sharingan phase of the Uchiha's doujutsu, it would be him. Its logical, if you ask me, that Hagoromo awakened Rinnegan, and Rinnegan alone, at some point in his life. Not necessarily at birth, but at some point. One could argue that the Sharinnegan portion of Kaguya's chakra, afforded to her by the divine fruit, could not manifest fully in her offspring. Therefore, an incomplete variation of it arose in Hagoromo, that being the Rinnegan.

Now, continuing this line of thought, it would make sense that an offspring of Hagoromo, being of even LESS divine chakra than he was, could not fully possess the Rinnegan in its true form. This might be why Indra only awakened a Sharingan, the DNA was weakened again in a single generation, causing an even more degraded doujutsu to spawn. This time it was in the form of the Sharingan. After this second devolution, the chakra influence stabalized and the Sharingan stayed within the heritage. At this point, however, no one would ever be able to unlock Rinnegan (like Hagoromo did) unless they progressed though Sharingan evolution to do so.

With all that said, I'm a firm believer that Sharingan is a strict requirement to unlock Rinnegan in the MODERN era of Uchiha and Senju. Even acquiring Hagoromo's chakra would not be enough because the DNA is now spread far too thin. Take Naruto for example. He was given a portion of Hagoromo's chakra when he was dying yet he did not unlock Rinnegan, only Sasuke did. Even if Hagoromo's chakra alone was enough to unlock it, no one is attaining that DNA unless they are a transmigrant or they combine the Uchiha Sharingan with the Senju body DNA.

Bottom line? Hagoromo having Sharingan doesn't make much sense. He even states he unlocked both MS and Rinnegan at the same time in the anime yet we never see an MS pattern. That plus the fact he just instantly decides the names of the doujutsu out of nowhere? Like WTF, seriously.

In addition, while Hagoromo unlocked Rinnegan without Sharingan, that is not the case with the modern era. To reach Hagoromo's status, you have to attain both Indra and Ashura's chakra, which means Uchiha eyes + Senju body. Only transmigrants would have direct access to his DNA and potentially skip the Sharingan stage, but Naruto's case shows us that attaining his chakra alone is not enough for a non-uchiha to awaken Rinnegan. Now a Senju implanting an Uchiha's Sharingan might allow them to unlock it, but lets not get too crazy.

TL;DR since this went so long:

Hagoromo having sharingan doesn't make much sense because he was one of Kaguya's first offspring and therefore had more access to her pure DNA than a Modern Uchiha would. Him sprouting a mutated Sharinnegan in the form of a Rinnegan, on the other hand, does makes sense. His son sprouting a mutated Rinnegan in the form of a Sharingan also makes sense because Indra has even less of Kaguya's chakra than his father did. I consider both logical because with each generation Kaguya's charka influence was decreasing in their bloodlines. At that point, however, the DNAs stabilized and the Sharigan stayed in the bloodline, along with Byakugan.

Once the Sharingan was a staple in the DNA, the only way to obtain Rinnegan was to combine the Uchiha Sharingan with the Senju Body DNA. This step could perhaps be bypassed by being a transmigrant, where one could obtain Hagoromo's DNA directly. Yet, we can tell from Naruto's case that even transmigrants who are given his DNA won't unlock Rinnegan unless they have an active Sharingan. The bottom line comes down to Hagaromo's case being far too unique to extend to any modern humans. The rules of the doujutsu changed once Kaguya's chakra influence became so watered down.

Note: In the 4th option of the poll, it should read, 'Nope, but unlocking Rinnegan does require Sharingan'.
 
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NarutoX28

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You're correct, Hagoromo never had the Sharingan's Powers in the first place. His Power was simply a stepping stone to reach Kaguya's Power which actually contained the Sharingan's power as well.
 

SenseiSama

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Hagormo didn't have Sharingan because his chakra is for Rinnegan and nothing else. Indra's eyes and Hagorom's eyes are two separate KKG that only Kaguya can possess in one dojutsu.

Sasuke is an exception because he had Indra's KKG when he was given Hagoromo's chakra as opposed to Madara who only added Ashura's chakra. Tomoe Rinnegan is closer to RinneSharingan hence why Sasuke kept his Sharingan abilities.
 

wanderingcactus

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Hagormo didn't have Sharingan because his chakra is for Rinnegan and nothing else. Indra's eyes and Hagorom's eyes are two separate KKG that only Kaguya can possess in one dojutsu.

Sasuke is an exception because he had Indra's KKG when he was given Hagoromo's chakra as opposed to Madara who only added Ashura's chakra. Tomoe Rinnegan is closer to RinneSharingan hence why Sasuke kept his Sharingan abilities.
Basically what you said.

A lot of people believe that his rinnegan is the same as the purple one but I don't believe so.

it is rather less than that as it is a mixed of MS and rinnegan.

That is why I cannot confirm whether he really does have ALL six paths even though he used one of them.

His eye changed into that because Hagoromo directly gave him his chakra/seal. but he still lacks Yang.

That's why I believe that Naruto can use 3 of the six paths and Sasuke the OTHER 3 of the 6 paths.

until we get some clarifications, you believe what you want and I'll believe with what I was provided with.

Hagoromo did not have sharingan as it was a diluted form of rinnegan.

However I do have conflicting opinion whether he unlocked it or whether he was born with it.

Hagoromo had the Yang seal (body) and Hamura had Yin seal (mind)

whoever had the Yin seal/chakra normally is the more developed one and as it is mind, they possess ocular KKG.

Then again BOTH of them had them.

We know that Hamura was born with byakugan, as that is the only way you could ever gain the byakugan as a pure blood.
Yin seal also backs this theory up.

The inconsistency arises as to when he awakened his tenseigan. We know that he used that around when the moon was created.

That breaks the parallel. Yin seal parallels the talented. They had everything when they were born.

Yang are the hard workers because they had to mature to unlock their full potential so in order to get by until then they had to work hard.

Hagoromo had the Yang. He already had the rinnegan when they fought Kaguya. It would be ok if he was born with the sharingan then awakened rinnegan sometime later. Which would then become a straight copy of Hamura's development.

So with all the parallels, Yin is supposed to be developed from the start but Hamura didn't awaken tenseigan until later in life.
Yang was the late bloomers and would not accomplish anything great until they mature their body. Yet somehow Hagoromo had his rinnegan when he fought his mother and Hamura was still using byakugan.

All this is because it is retconned. And character development did not go in pace with story development. So the tenseigan was introduced after Kishi had finished the Kaguya/10tails origin story.

Kishi also forced to make Hagoromo the parallel for Naruto, which would've been fine if Hagoromo awakened his rinnegan AFTER Hamura awakened his tenseigan.

So in reality with how the story developed, Sasuke's parallel should've been Hagoromo and Naruto's would be Hamura.

But hey that's the beauty and chaos of retcon and asspulls
 

Waltz

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Of course. Doujutsu wise, attenuation hurdling the Rin'negan is from all points a flaw when the process depicted and explained was:

Shinju's Rin'negan -> Rin'negan -> Mangekyo -> 3T Sharingan -> 2T Sharingan -> 1T Sharingan -> Normal eyes.

The potency of Indra's Mangekyo would have been drained over the Generations concluding in a weaker variation of the eye. For that apex to be regained then Genes would have to be mixed through eye transplant and thus I'm of the belief that what is called the "Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan" was the original Mangekyo Sharingan. Indra's Successor was to be granted with Hagoromo's eyes and spiritual energy, which Sasuke gained as the Rin'negan while Ashura's successor was to be grated with Hagoromo's Body, longevity and stamina which would have been RSM gained by Naruto.
 
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Jokule67

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You're correct, Hagoromo never had the Sharingan's Powers in the first place. His Power was simply a stepping stone to reach Kaguya's Power which actually contained the Sharingan's power as well.
Rinnegan has the sharingans power. Madara showed us this when his eyes transformed.

Rinnegan is greater than Sharingan
 

Jokule67

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Basically what you said.

A lot of people believe that his rinnegan is the same as the purple one but I don't believe so.

it is rather less than that as it is a mixed of MS and rinnegan.

That is why I cannot confirm whether he really does have ALL six paths even though he used one of them.

His eye changed into that because Hagoromo directly gave him his chakra/seal. but he still lacks Yang.

That's why I believe that Naruto can use 3 of the six paths and Sasuke the OTHER 3 of the 6 paths.

until we get some clarifications, you believe what you want and I'll believe with what I was provided with.

Hagoromo did not have sharingan as it was a diluted form of rinnegan.

However I do have conflicting opinion whether he unlocked it or whether he was born with it.

Hagoromo had the Yang seal (body) and Hamura had Yin seal (mind)

whoever had the Yin seal/chakra normally is the more developed one and as it is mind, they possess ocular KKG.

Then again BOTH of them had them.

We know that Hamura was born with byakugan, as that is the only way you could ever gain the byakugan as a pure blood.
Yin seal also backs this theory up.

The inconsistency arises as to when he awakened his tenseigan. We know that he used that around when the moon was created.

That breaks the parallel. Yin seal parallels the talented. They had everything when they were born.

Yang are the hard workers because they had to mature to unlock their full potential so in order to get by until then they had to work hard.

Hagoromo had the Yang. He already had the rinnegan when they fought Kaguya. It would be ok if he was born with the sharingan then awakened rinnegan sometime later. Which would then become a straight copy of Hamura's development.

So with all the parallels, Yin is supposed to be developed from the start but Hamura didn't awaken tenseigan until later in life.
Yang was the late bloomers and would not accomplish anything great until they mature their body. Yet somehow Hagoromo had his rinnegan when he fought his mother and Hamura was still using byakugan.

All this is because it is retconned. And character development did not go in pace with story development. So the tenseigan was introduced after Kishi had finished the Kaguya/10tails origin story.

Kishi also forced to make Hagoromo the parallel for Naruto, which would've been fine if Hagoromo awakened his rinnegan AFTER Hamura awakened his tenseigan.

So in reality with how the story developed, Sasuke's parallel should've been Hagoromo and Naruto's would be Hamura.

But hey that's the beauty and chaos of retcon and asspulls
You take the parallels too seriously or should I say you interpret it wrong. Its simply SUN and MOON. Its based on character and ideals not how they got there.

Hashi was a prodigy yet he is Sun. So is boruto but is also Sun.
 
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Jokule67

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Hagormo didn't have Sharingan because his chakra is for Rinnegan and nothing else. Indra's eyes and Hagorom's eyes are two separate KKG that only Kaguya can possess in one dojutsu.

Sasuke is an exception because he had Indra's KKG when he was given Hagoromo's chakra as opposed to Madara who only added Ashura's chakra. Tomoe Rinnegan is closer to RinneSharingan hence why Sasuke kept his Sharingan abilities.
This makes sense, but Studio Perriots also makes sense. It really could go either way. Not the bullshit way in which they did it but the way it happened along with what we already know they could get away with doing it that way.
 

SenseiSama

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You take the parallels too seriously or should I say you interpret it wrong. Its simply SUN and MOON. Its based on character and ideals not how they got there.

Hashi was a prodigy yet he is Sun. So is boruto but is also Sun.
I think Madara was able to use Susanoo agains Tobirama because he didn't have dual Rinnegan at the time. His brain is what produces Sharingan chakra so as long as he doesn't have Rinnegan in his eye sockets he would still be able to use Sharingan techs.

We saw that as soon as he had both Rinnegan he was no longer able to use his Mangekyo jutsu which suggests Hagoromo's eyes don't have Sharingan abilities. When he had both of Hagoromo's eyes he had yellow mixed with brown and as a result lost the yellow colour so he could unlock a new colour.
 

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I think Madara was able to use Susanoo agains Tobirama because he didn't have dual Rinnegan at the time. His brain is what produces Sharingan chakra so as long as he doesn't have Rinnegan in his eye sockets he would still be able to use Sharingan techs.

We saw that as soon as he had both Rinnegan he was no longer able to use his Mangekyo jutsu which suggests Hagoromo's eyes don't have Sharingan abilities. When he had both of Hagoromo's eyes he had yellow mixed with brown and as a result lost the yellow colour so he could unlock a new colour.
@ Bold: Outside of Susano'o as .
 

Floydical

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Hagormo didn't have Sharingan because his chakra is for Rinnegan and nothing else. Indra's eyes and Hagorom's eyes are two separate KKG that only Kaguya can possess in one dojutsu.

Sasuke is an exception because he had Indra's KKG when he was given Hagoromo's chakra as opposed to Madara who only added Ashura's chakra. Tomoe Rinnegan is closer to RinneSharingan hence why Sasuke kept his Sharingan abilities.
I mostly agree, but Sharingan and Rinnegan are not separate jutsu. The Rinnegan can be obtained through Sharingan in modern times, making it a simple part of the Rinnegan. The ability of the Sharingan to copy jutsu is evidence of this, considering the Rinnegan allows the user to learn all single element jutsu known to man. The Sharingan is simply a lesser version of the Rinnegan, not separate.
 

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or may be rinnegan was most balanced form of yin and yang and sharingan transforms in to one when one was able to balance yin and yang at exact proportions no wonder why it took a life time for madara to awaken and sasuke's was forced it to awake by sage. sage already had both yin and yang powers from birth and sharingan was natural eye of the jubii blood line so may be awakened sharingan first and naturally awakened rinnegan later his own unique eye.
 

NarutoX28

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Rinnegan has the sharingans power. Madara showed us this when his eyes transformed.

Rinnegan is greater than Sharingan
He could only use Susano'o which only requires the chakra awakened from the Dojutsu, but doesn't use the Dojutsu as a medium.

Rinnegan doesn't have the Sharingan's power or else it'd be the equivalent of the RinneSharingan. Even Hagoromo admitted that Kaguya was frightening because she had the Sharingan's Powers as well implying that Hagoromo never had the Sharingan's powers to begin with.
 

Styles

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Hagormo didn't have Sharingan because his chakra is for Rinnegan and nothing else. Indra's eyes and Hagorom's eyes are two separate KKG that only Kaguya can possess in one dojutsu.

Sasuke is an exception because he had Indra's KKG when he was given Hagoromo's chakra as opposed to Madara who only added Ashura's chakra. Tomoe Rinnegan is closer to RinneSharingan hence why Sasuke kept his Sharingan abilities.
Hagoromo's is KKM*
 

HyuugaHeir

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as good as it sounds, Hagoromo doesnt have the "sharingan" The eyes did appear first in Indra as a diluted eye, some sort of a result yah.
Excellent Points Op
 

minamoto

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Hagormo didn't have Sharingan because his chakra is for Rinnegan and nothing else. Indra's eyes and Hagorom's eyes are two separate KKG that only Kaguya can possess in one dojutsu.

Sasuke is an exception because he had Indra's KKG when he was given Hagoromo's chakra as opposed to Madara who only added Ashura's chakra. Tomoe Rinnegan is closer to RinneSharingan hence why Sasuke kept his Sharingan abilities.
that's what i call "teh art of soloing a Bull$hit thread!!"....good job bro
 

Guitar Hero

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I wonder how long it'll take for the line between filler and canon to blur(like with DBZ). The youtube part of this dumbass fandom is already calling the kaguya filler, canon filler :|. Smfh.
 
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123fire

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All disagreeing then Kishi could have been the one who told the anime studio that hagoromo had a sharingan...

What i think is th studio asked kishi what was Hagoromo's eyes before the rennigan kishi replies with Sharingan . And u all think its filler and irrelevant whereas it could be kishi himself who came up with it. Im not saying for sure but its a given
 

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as good as it sounds, Hagoromo doesnt have the "sharingan" The eyes did appear first in Indra as a diluted eye, some sort of a result yah.
Excellent Points Op
Yes he did have it , the manga fact is that the rennigan comes from the mangekyou sharimgan according to Madara #REKT
1. He doesnt need one
2. Filler
Not gonna argue , idiot idiot is obvious
Of course. Doujutsu wise, attenuation hurdling the Rin'negan is from all points a flaw when the process depicted and explained was:

Shinju's Rin'negan -> Rin'negan -> Mangekyo -> 3T Sharingan -> 2T Sharingan -> 1T Sharingan -> Normal eyes.

The potency of Indra's Mangekyo would have been drained over the Generations concluding in a weaker variation of the eye. For that apex to be regained then Genes would have to be mixed through eye transplant and thus I'm of the belief that what is called the "Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan" was the original Mangekyo Sharingan. Indra's Successor was to be granted with Hagoromo's eyes and spiritual energy, which Sasuke gained as the Rin'negan while Ashura's successor was to be grated with Hagoromo's Body, longevity and stamina which would have been RSM gained by Naruto.
That wasn't the case from where did u bring this info? Your head?
You're correct, Hagoromo never had the Sharingan's Powers in the first place. His Power was simply a stepping stone to reach Kaguya's Power which actually contained the Sharingan's power as well.
What if kishi told the anime that hagoromo had a sharingan before the rennigan, would you still say he never had one? #REKT
 
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