My Take on Why Nagato Could Control The Two Rinnegan while Obito Could Not

[NaruSasuRival]

I have seen many arguments on Nagato (Uzumaki) vs Obito (Uchiha) controls of Rinnegan. I noticed that this discussion has been much biased by the respective opinion of each side being biased by some unstated position. Here is what I think is destroying the debates lately:

Every discussion on the based is biased by the Naruto and Sasuke fanboys position. Whenever a fact seems to imply something big for Naruto, the Sasuke fanboys will keep bringing theories to destroy that facts, and vice versa.​

I may be wrong, but this can be proven by the number of threads that tried to demonstrate that Naruto used COAT vs their counterparts of threads that sought to prove the opposite. It is also the same for the current topic. Thus, the following argument hold his legitimate place on the base.

1. Manga facts from Obito's statements

Since I don't have VIZ translation, I will give only NB version of Obito's statements about the Rinnegan. Here we go.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

In his statement, Obito gives three important facts about the Rinnegan:

(a) The full power of the Rinnegan is shown when the two eyes are together
(b) The scale of the Rinnegan power is greater when used by its owner than otherwise
(c) The chakra and eye power of a single Rinnegan was so strong that he almost lost himself.

In this thread, we are only interested in the fact in (c). Anyone can discuss the other facts, but the followings focused only on (c).

2. Chakra and Eye power

I am very surprised by the argument used by all the genius debaters on the base. They keep discussing the chakra of Obito, Nagato, and Madara. Actually, the problem with controlling the Rinnegan, and also all type of power is not only the amount of chakra that the user possess. Here, it is about controlling a new power that you did not have before. Here are some examples:

(1) The Uchiha power increase with the amount of hatred. Actually, even the Uchiha dudes do not have control of their own Sharingan, and this is why the chakra of the Sharingan also drive them crazy. They lost normal reasoning, and are driven only by the power of the eye. As I said before, I know that the body conditioning is necessary, but I am more concerned by the effect of the chakra as well. Everyone will see that even Kakashi is said to become a bit dark.

(2) Controlling Biju chakra is a hassle. The chakra, one loaded, can turn the jinchuriki into a mindless person. Only people with strong will can control the chakra. I can show you how Sasuke was impressed by the amount of chakra Naruto could control. This was actually from his own experience with the Sharingan.

Now, similarly to the above two, the Rinnegan is a chakra that is made from Hashirama and Madara's chakra. It is the chakra of Rikudo himself - though I believe Madara does not have the exact Chakra of Rikudo. The key here is that the chakra is too strong and wield its own power. The problem is with the mind, and not the body. look at this:

This is why Obito speak of losing himself. It is about the Will, not the quantity of chakra one possess.

3. Uzumaki

I think there is no need to write a lot here. The Uzumaki have the strongest body and will in this manga. While there is no fact that focuses on this, I am pretty sure Kishi will prove me right. For now, we have this:

(i) The Kyuubi has the most evil chakra in the Narutoverse, and we know the Uzumaki are its Natural Jinchurikis. Many of them have been shown to control him without going berserk. Even Kid Naruto could bath himself in his chakra without going crazy - he was able to stop himself from killing Haku.

(ii) Nagato is an example that they can withstand powerful chakra and control themselves.

(3) Current Naruto is an example.


4. Madara and the Rinnegan

Madara will use the Rinnegan, but he will lose his mind as well - if he has not already lost his mind. I believe Madara could not control his Uchiha power, and this is why he went crazy. People like Shisui and Itachi were able to see clearly and use their power for good. They were still Uchiha. An hint to this bold statement is this:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

As you can see, Hagoromo said that Naruto has something that influenced Ashura to chose him as his reincarnation. This means that the spirit is looking for a vessel that can control his power to the top level. This is also true in reality as the quality of the vessel will decides the strength of the spirit. A weak vessel cannot bear everything the spirit can give and will die or suffer until the spirit leave.


5. Conclusion

This is about controlling the chakra and eye power of the Rinnegan itself. IT has nothing to do with the amount of chakra the vessel possess. It is clear that Obito having Hashirama's cells has almost an infinite amount of Chakra. Simply put, his body was not a good body that could withstand the strength of the Rinnegan chakra, and his mind was not enough to control the eye power. This is what happened to Kakashi has well. He fainted the day his MS opened - meaning his body was not a match for MS chakra.

This also means that power lies within the Uzumaki clan. There is no room for denial.

 

[BLAZE]

becoz madara planted rennigen inNagato's socket and obito stated he couldn't implant it himself.
Sorry for being rude though
OT: ur reasons r solid except obito nvr said something about controlling

 

[Tsukuyomi420]

I have seen many arguments on Nagato (Uzumaki) vs Obito (Uchiha) controls of Rinnegan. I noticed that this discussion has been much biased by the respective opinion of each side being biased by some unstated position. Here is what I think is destroying the debates lately:

Every discussion on the based is biased by the Naruto and Sasuke fanboys position. Whenever a fact seems to imply something big for Naruto, the Sasuke fanboys will keep bringing theories to destroy that facts, and vice versa.​

I may be wrong, but this can be proven by the number of threads that tried to demonstrate that Naruto used COAT vs their counterparts of threads that sought to prove the opposite. It is also the same for the current topic. Thus, the following argument hold his legitimate place on the base.

1. Manga facts from Obito's statements

Since I don't have VIZ translation, I will give only NB version of Obito's statements about the Rinnegan. Here we go.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

In his statement, Obito gives three important facts about the Rinnegan:

(a) The full power of the Rinnegan is shown when the two eyes are together
(b) The scale of the Rinnegan power is greater when used by its owner than otherwise
(c) The chakra and eye power of a single Rinnegan was so strong that he almost lost himself.

In this thread, we are only interested in the fact in (c). Anyone can discuss the other facts, but the followings focused only on (c).

2. Chakra and Eye power

I am very surprised by the argument used by all the genius debaters on the base. They keep discussing the chakra of Obito, Nagato, and Madara. Actually, the problem with controlling the Rinnegan, and also all type of power is not only the amount of chakra that the user possess. Here, it is about controlling a new power that you did not have before. Here are some examples:

(1) The Uchiha power increase with the amount of hatred. Actually, even the Uchiha dudes do not have control of their own Sharingan, and this is why the chakra of the Sharingan also drive them crazy. They lost normal reasoning, and are driven only by the power of the eye. As I said before, I know that the body conditioning is necessary, but I am more concerned by the effect of the chakra as well. Everyone will see that even Kakashi is said to become a bit dark.

(2) Controlling Biju chakra is a hassle. The chakra, one loaded, can turn the jinchuriki into a mindless person. Only people with strong will can control the chakra. I can show you how Sasuke was impressed by the amount of chakra Naruto could control. This was actually from his own experience with the Sharingan.

Now, similarly to the above two, the Rinnegan is a chakra that is made from Hashirama and Madara's chakra. It is the chakra of Rikudo himself - though I believe Madara does not have the exact Chakra of Rikudo. The key here is that the chakra is too strong and wield its own power. The problem is with the mind, and not the body. look at this:

This is why Obito speak of losing himself. It is about the Will, not the quantity of chakra one possess.

3. Uzumaki

I think there is no need to write a lot here. The Uzumaki have the strongest body and will in this manga. While there is no fact that focuses on this, I am pretty sure Kishi will prove me right. For now, we have this:

(i) The Kyuubi has the most evil chakra in the Narutoverse, and we know the Uzumaki are its Natural Jinchurikis. Many of them have been shown to control him without going berserk. Even Kid Naruto could bath himself in his chakra without going crazy - he was able to stop himself from killing Haku.

(ii) Nagato is an example that they can withstand powerful chakra and control themselves.

(3) Current Naruto is an example.


4. Madara and the Rinnegan

Madara will use the Rinnegan, but he will lose his mind as well - if he has not already lost his mind. I believe Madara could not control his Uchiha power, and this is why he went crazy. People like Shisui and Itachi were able to see clearly and use their power for good. They were still Uchiha. An hint to this bold statement is this:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

As you can see, Hagoromo said that Naruto has something that influenced Ashura to chose him as his reincarnation. This means that the spirit is looking for a vessel that can control his power to the top level. This is also true in reality as the quality of the vessel will decides the strength of the spirit. A weak vessel cannot bear everything the spirit can give and will die or suffer until the spirit leave.


5. Conclusion

This is about controlling the chakra and eye power of the Rinnegan itself. IT has nothing to do with the amount of chakra the vessel possess. It is clear that Obito having Hashirama's cells has almost an infinite amount of Chakra. Simply put, his body was not a good body that could withstand the strength of the Rinnegan chakra, and his mind was not enough to control the eye power. This is what happened to Kakashi has well. He fainted the day his MS opened - meaning his body was not a match for MS chakra.

This also means that power lies within the Uzumaki clan. There is no room for denial.

good point

 

[uchihadesendent]

simply it's because obito's body is too weak

 

[Ashura San]

simply it's because obito's body is too weak

This^^^
Let's not overcomplicate things.

 

[VongolaX]

Some of the things that you stated are not true.

You can't use Naruto as an example for uzamaki, he's only half uzamaki and he has Asuhra's chakra in him.

That essentially sets him apart from the rest, even Hashirama (a full blooded senju) had several or all the best in his control during his time.

Obito stated that the left eye was so powerful that if he implanted the other one, that it would overwhelm him.

He was so amazed with the power that he already used with one eye.

It just means that his personality will completely change

Just like Nagato did...

If Uzamaki's were even correlated to this strong body theory, Nagato wouldn't of had the life sucked out of him by Gedo mazou.

Even old one 3 tomoe Madara was using the Gedo mazou just fine.

Putting bijuus into the outer path makes it even harder to control with just eye power alone, even Kakashi noted this in their fight.

 

[mistninja314]

NAGATO GOT THOSE BLACK RODS STUCK IN HIS BACK when he used that dragon jutsu that almost killed hanzo

imho that literally sucked the life right outta him lol

 

[ShinjuMadara]

I don't really understand what you're trying to say

 

[LogicnoJutsu]

Wtf... Even Nagato couldnt handle the power U_U or did everyone forgot that this is Nagato mid 30s?

You must be registered for see images

 

[NaruSasuRival]

Some of the things that you stated are not true.

You can't use Naruto as an example for uzamaki, he's only half uzamaki and he has Asuhra's chakra in him.

First, the half argument is not in any manner determinant in Naruto's inheritance of his mother's bloodline. If you show me a single factor that say that a child cannot be as strong as his mother, I will stop discussing. Hair color can be transmitted, and everything else with it. When I studied genetics at school, there was even a concept of dominance - that is one parent can be dominant and win in the inheritance of certain feature.

That essentially sets him apart from the rest, even Hashirama (a full blooded senju) had several or all the best in his control during his time.

You are very wrong on two facts:

First, being Ashura's reincarnate means you are a vessel for Ashura's spirit. It does not means Ashura does the work for you. You still suffer like kid Naruto, and work hard + you make your own decision. If being Ashura reincarnate was automatic power-up, then Naruto would not even need to go to academy since Ashura has been being reincarnated for centuries, and knows a lot of Jutsus.

Second, Hashirama never became Jinchuriki. He was not bathing himself in Biju chakra. Biju chakra has never interacted with his mind. Your example is simply misplaced. Hashirama was controlling Biju with his wood and necklace that has a sealing property.

Obito stated that the left eye was so powerful that if he implanted the other one, that it would overwhelm him.

He was so amazed with the power that he already used with one eye.

It just means that his personality will completely change

Obito clearly said that he almost lost his mind due to only one eye. The pages are still there, and you can choose to see what you want.

Just like Nagato did...

If Uzamaki's were even correlated to this strong body theory, Nagato wouldn't of had the life sucked out of him by Gedo mazou.

Even old one 3 tomoe Madara was using the Gedo mazou just fine.

Putting bijuus into the outer path makes it even harder to control with just eye power alone, even Kakashi noted this in their fight.

Wtf... Even Nagato couldnt handle the power U_U or did everyone forgot that this is Nagato mid 30s?

You must be registered for see images

This is a misunderstanding of how strong Nagato was. It is also a misunderstanding of the thread. In fact, while Nagato was crippled, he was still using Rinnegan. This means that the amount of chakra is actually not the power that Obito needed. Rather, it is Obito/Nagato's strength to control the chakra that is already inside the Rinnegan.

Now, in the image you showed above, you certainly do not take into account the number of years Nagato has been using the Rinnegan. He has been using his power to create rain in the village under his control - practically every day. Using that rain, he has been monitoring entries and exit as we saw with Jiraya, and I am pretty sure this is a part of it. I wonder how much Rinnegan power he used against Hanzou's army before the end of the war.

Nagato was practically called a god in the country he was controlling. The picture you showed and your interpretation of it, is much of a passive reading.

See, Madara gave his Rinnegan to Nagato when Nagato was a kid. The image of Nagato you gave is as worse as the old Madara in the cave. Yet, Nagato was still controlling the Rinnegan. Even though Madara could control Gedo Mazou at old age, he wasn't able to control Rinnegan even 12-years before the cave.

 

[VongolaX]

First, the half argument is not in any manner determinant in Naruto's inheritance of his mother's bloodline. If you show me a single factor that say that a child cannot be as strong as his mother, I will stop discussing. Hair color can be transmitted, and everything else with it. When I studied genetics at school, there was even a concept of dominance - that is one parent can be dominant and win in the inheritance of certain feature.



You are very wrong on two facts:

First, being Ashura's reincarnate means you are a vessel for Ashura's spirit. It does not means Ashura does the work for you. You still suffer like kid Naruto, and work hard + you make your own decision. If being Ashura reincarnate was automatic power-up, then Naruto would not even need to go to academy since Ashura has been being reincarnated for centuries, and knows a lot of Jutsus.

Second, Hashirama never became Jinchuriki. He was not bathing himself in Biju chakra. Biju chakra has never interacted with his mind. Your example is simply misplaced. Hashirama was controlling Biju with his wood and necklace that has a sealing property.




Obito clearly said that he almost lost his mind due to only one eye. The pages are still there, and you can choose to see what you want.






This is a misunderstanding of how strong Nagato was. It is also a misunderstanding of the thread. In fact, while Nagato was crippled, he was still using Rinnegan. This means that the amount of chakra is actually not the power that Obito needed. Rather, it is Obito/Nagato's strength to control the chakra that is already inside the Rinnegan.

Now, in the image you showed above, you certainly do not take into account the number of years Nagato has been using the Rinnegan. He has been using his power to create rain in the village under his control - practically every day. Using that rain, he has been monitoring entries and exit as we saw with Jiraya, and I am pretty sure this is a part of it. I wonder how much Rinnegan power he used against Hanzou's army before the end of the war.

Nagato was practically called a god in the country he was controlling. The picture you showed and your interpretation of it, is much of a passive reading.

See, Madara gave his Rinnegan to Nagato when Nagato was a kid. The image of Nagato you gave is as worse as the old Madara in the cave. Yet, Nagato was still controlling the Rinnegan. Even though Madara could control Gedo Mazou at old age, he wasn't able to control Rinnegan even 12-years before the cave.

1. As an offspring you get 50% from each parent, naruto inherited a few aspects from his mom but her

Uzamaki trait still exceeds naruto's by a mile.

Example: Obito ripped the kyuubi from kushina, and yet was still able to move just a little bit or at least talk.

Naruto had his bijuu ripped out by Madara and instantaneously fell into a comma and nearly died if not for Sakura.

I'll repeat, Naruto is the reincarnation of Asuhra who is full of life energy.


2. Being Asuhra reincarnated, through hard work naruto can awaken his power.

Same thing Asuhra did to meet up to his beother.

Naruto worked hard to achieve that power, he had it in him...
But he worked hard to awaken it.

You can't compare naruto to any other uzamaki, it's illogical if naruto has the power

Of Asuhra in him.

Hashirama being an example was able to control several beast.
(Something Tobirama couldn't do himself).

No one stated that Hashirama is a jinchuuriki...

So you're wrong on both accounts.

Danzo said those who truly controlled the bijuus was 2 jinchuuriki's with Madara and Hashirama.

Which happen to be 2 incarnations of the sage's son.

You don't need to be a jinchuuriki to have perfect control over a bijuu.

3. Questioning....No

Denying Madara's control of the rinnegan is unreal.

You don't know Madara's control over the rinnegan, in fact he and Obito stated that he is better than anyone else who borrowed it.

^^That's not up for debate

You can't just assume that strength is needed from the body..no

It's baseless

You use the context of the previous chapters to come up with a conclusion.

Using eye power alone, it was hard to control the bijuus, Gedo mazou, and use the six path Justus at the same time.

It's not body strength, otherwise Obito would be superior still...
(Hashirama's tissue)

Nagato never utilize the rinnegan power on a massive scale like Obito and Madara.

 

[mistninja314]

NAGATO GOT THOSE BLACK RODS STUCK IN HIS BACK when he used that dragon jutsu that almost killed hanzo

imho that literally sucked the life right outta him lol

this is hwy he looks bony as hell at 30 yrs old lol