My take on Nagato's eyes and Tobi being Obito

[Uchicha Macho]

i believe nagato is madara child.madara maybe secretly give his child to a family till the rigjt timecome.Remember madara was in the land of wave/hidden mist village to capture the mizukage tail beast .

 

[soulreaper11]

agree but all i know is this

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[Y3llovv fla5h]

Basically, I was looking through the manga and there are certain things which I feel just do not fit together, especially in the wake of 599's "revelation". If you see any flaws in my reasoning/logic, feel free to point them out.

So what do we know about Nagato's eyes?

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that he was the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan during his battle with Konan. What's important to note here is that Tobi was pretending to be the real Madara Uchiha when he said this, as confirmed

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.

Now, the manga certainly makes out that Nagato's eyes were indeed transplanted. How? Well;

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  (through Muu) that the
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  is the natural progression of the Sharingan, and Nagato failed to show any Sharingan techniques
• Nagato did not show the ability to switch his dojutsu off, even after his
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But i'm calling bullshit on that idea. Why? Madara claimed to have awakened the Rinnegan

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his death - it's only logical to assume that if Madara really did give Nagato his eyes, he would've died around that time (2nd shinobi war), no? The problem here is, Kishimoto himself confirmed that Madara and Tobi know eachother; if Tobi really is Obito, Madara would've had to at least of lived until the 3rd shinobi war. There are also points in the manga which suggest that Madara is aware of Tobi;

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and having knowledge of

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,

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etc.

So if Madara and Tobi do indeed know eachother, which has been pretty much 100% confirmed, and Tobi is Obito, how can Madara have given Nagato the Rinnegan? Madara died shortly after awakening the eyes, and Nagato was taught by a Jiraiya in his mid twenties - A man who taught a young Minato who then taught Obito. It just cannot fit. Then again, Madara

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by name, which again gives the impression that his eyes were implanted so that the young Uzumaki boy could one day revive him with Rinne Tensei. But another issue which arises is the idea that there were two Tobis. I find it hard to believe that Obito, who received a 1 in intelligence in the databooks, could've planned everything alone. Then there's also the mysterious

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who met Itachi, a man who many members believe to be the real Madara Uchiha. After all, this is a visual manga and visual things (like haircuts) are clues left to us by Kishimoto - characters don't just randomly change things like that. Even look at his posture; it certainly resembles that of Madara. But again, ask yourself, how can Madara be alive at this time (Uchiha clan Massacre) if he died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan, a Rinnegan "given to Nagato" years before that?

Essentially, I believe that it's impossible for Tobi to be Obito in mind and soul if Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan, since Tobi and Madara are familiar with eachother. One could say that Nagato really did awaken the Rinnegan (though that presents a problem in itself since that'd be like saying you can awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan without awakening the 3 tomoe first), though this goes against overwhelming evidence in the manga. This stance, however, does allow for Tobi being Obito. The other route is that Madara really did give Nagato the Rinnegan, but that'd mean that Tobi is someone who was born before that time (because he and Madara know eachother and Madara should've died then) - he could not be Obito; rather, someone using Obito's body as a vessel.

To summarize: 'Tobi is Obito (in mind and body)' and 'Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan' are two mutually exclusive statements; they can't both be true at the same time.

Thoughts? Because, quite frankly, i'm stumped.

Here are a few things that just came to mind and you can either take it or leave it.......

1. Izuna never REALLY died....

2. The "Tobi" that fought minato years before the uchiha masacre was indeed Obito, but with a zetsu upgrade...kind of....and was sort of a test to see if he could control him with some sort of body switching jutsu/mind transferral jutsu.

3. The long haired masked man that took part in the Uchiha masacre was Izuna...my idea is that he was bitter that the clan went against his brother after his supposed death, and that it's possible that he died shortly after the masacre.
I got to thinking about it and the long haired masked mans posture than is a lot different than that of the "Tobi" in front of us now...


...thoughts on this?!

 

[Y3llovv fla5h]

I think it was Obito(Tobi) who met up with Itachi ... becouse when Tobi first revealed his eyes to Sasuke .. Sasuke instantly attacked him with amateratsu... becouse Itachi knew that Tobi who helped him with the massacre would speak with Sasuke about the Truth and he didnt wanted Sasuke to know about that so did this ..

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Hmm not necesarily, up until recently he's only showed a 3 tomoe sharingan so unless ur talking about how his chakra was than I would say no.
Only the mangekyo and EMS have different patterns so being able
To tell one "normal" sharingan from another is..well..impossible

 

[Henrik]

I find it strange how he talks like he was in the battle

 

[Y3llovv fla5h]

I find it strange how he talks like he was in the battle

If zetsu was there than that could explain it....IF zetsu was somehow fused with him, than its possible that they could share memories!?
Could possibly explain behavioral changes such as going from a 1-intelligence to a manipulative bastard

 

[ashite]

Great post! This is a huge mystery indeed but we have to look at all the characters in play to solve this one not just the obvious ones. We know that every person who wore the tobi mask has had a sharingan eye/eyes, we also know that these eyes can be transplanted to anyone and that whoever was controlling the mizukage was recognized by kisame as the same person behind the mask now. We also know that faces can be stolen and worn as shown by orochimaru in part 1 in the forrest of death. So it really comes down to the members of akatsuki and anyone who was affiliated with them. Like danzo, who was clearly never a good guy why, would tobi want him dead unless he knew too much or was involved somehow?

 

[HiddenWarrior]

Here are a few things that just came to mind and you can either take it or leave it.......

1. Izuna never REALLY died....

2. The "Tobi" that fought minato years before the uchiha masacre was indeed Obito, but with a zetsu upgrade...kind of....and was sort of a test to see if he could control him with some sort of body switching jutsu/mind transferral jutsu.

3. The long haired masked man that took part in the Uchiha masacre was Izuna...my idea is that he was bitter that the clan went against his brother after his supposed death, and that it's possible that he died shortly after the masacre.
I got to thinking about it and the long haired masked mans posture than is a lot different than that of the "Tobi" in front of us now...


...thoughts on this?!

1. Agreed

2. Why would Obito say that he's been waiting so long for the day he can capture the kyuubi if it's only been two years? I think it's Izuna still at this point & they either share a body or Obito is just a vessel.

3. Agree up until posture. Tobi & Izuna share same weight and height in the databook.

 

[The God of Wind]

I find it strange how he talks like he was in the battle

Dude your avatar is freaking me out, by the way, this might help fill in the "plot holes".

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[izzatmu]

what about tobi being tobirama senju? or izuna? i mean, their dead bodies hasn't been found and yet all other villagers assume they to be dead..

 

[Strong eyes]

I think they are two masked people going by the name of tobi. One is Izuna and the other is obito. Izuna is the leader and the one telling obito what to do.

 

[crysis04]

Great one there

 

[Rananjay Singh]

i cn say dat u r correct...i thnk dat when da 2nd war was goin on dat time nagato n obito were of the same age so if tobi says dat he gave him rinnegan then its impossible dat he's obito...n to prove dis i dont have any reason bt i thnk he's some creepy orochimaru kina guy who cn take on bodies n remain alive....he might have taken obito's ody when he was getting crushed n maybe obito didn't die he jst went unconcious due heavy bleeding n crushed body...i dnt knw whether m crrrct so flame me if u like...

 

[Mante]

This explains how Madara was able to give Nagato rinnegan:

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tbh, it doesn't explain how Madara and Tobi know each other, but everything else. :|

 

[softkings]

Agreed with this. It really might be true but only Kishi knows for sure.

 

[jet07]

I'm done trying to figure out. Just going to enjoy the series while it is still ongoing. I think you all should do the same too.

 

[ChiefHermit]

lol still these useless threads
ya'll should just write your own manga with all your assumptions and theories, i bet that's more fun than bashing kishi for effing up the timeline or w/e
lawl

just wait and enjoy the series like jet07 said

 

[TheHokage]

i believe nagato is madara child.madara maybe secretly give his child to a family till the rigjt timecome.Remember madara was in the land of wave/hidden mist village to capture the mizukage tail beast .

No...just no.

Nagato is an Uzumaki Tobi even said he was and I don't think he was lying since there was no to lie to at the time.

plus the red hair is a big hint also I doubt Madara would call his son a little brat.

 

[concept]

If Zetsu was once Tobi, Maybe Madara died before Zetsu found Obito and made him Tobi. What if the Tobi Madara knew was Zetsu. Obito would know so much about Madara from Zetsu.

On the other hand.... If there is only one Tobi. The key(or person who connects them to each other) is Zetsu.
I believe in whatever the outcome is, Zetsu has a huge part to play.

I've been thinking the exact same thing but then why would zetsu pass on the identity of tobi to some dying child?

Also, I don't know if someone has mentioned this but who is zetsu? Like I understand he's some sort of a creation from the first hokage'a cells but he has a soul, a personality, he can die meaning he is someone. You may say mokuton gives life but what about that thing tobi claims to gave created from the first hokage's cells? He said it was inanimate. Why is that inanimate but not zetsu?

Yes zetsu definitely has a big role to play.

 

[Simple Math]

good point