My take on Nagato's eyes and Tobi being Obito

[serpiente clan]

Basically, I was looking through the manga and there are certain things which I feel just do not fit together, especially in the wake of 599's "revelation". If you see any flaws in my reasoning/logic, feel free to point them out.

So what do we know about Nagato's eyes?

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that he was the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan during his battle with Konan. What's important to note here is that Tobi was pretending to be the real Madara Uchiha when he said this, as confirmed

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.

Now, the manga certainly makes out that Nagato's eyes were indeed transplanted. How? Well;

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  (through Muu) that the
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  is the natural progression of the Sharingan, and Nagato failed to show any Sharingan techniques
• Nagato did not show the ability to switch his dojutsu off, even after his
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But i'm calling bullshit on that idea. Why? Madara claimed to have awakened the Rinnegan

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his death - it's only logical to assume that if Madara really did give Nagato his eyes, he would've died around that time (2nd shinobi war), no? The problem here is, Kishimoto himself confirmed that Madara and Tobi know eachother; if Tobi really is Obito, Madara would've had to at least of lived until the 3rd shinobi war. There are also points in the manga which suggest that Madara is aware of Tobi;

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and having knowledge of

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,

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etc.

So if Madara and Tobi do indeed know eachother, which has been pretty much 100% confirmed, and Tobi is Obito, how can Madara have given Nagato the Rinnegan? Madara died shortly after awakening the eyes, and Nagato was taught by a Jiraiya in his mid twenties - A man who taught a young Minato who then taught Obito. It just cannot fit. Then again, Madara

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by name, which again gives the impression that his eyes were implanted so that the young Uzumaki boy could one day revive him with Rinne Tensei. But another issue which arises is the idea that there were two Tobis. I find it hard to believe that Obito, who received a 1 in intelligence in the databooks, could've planned everything alone. Then there's also the mysterious

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who met Itachi, a man who many members believe to be the real Madara Uchiha. After all, this is a visual manga and visual things (like haircuts) are clues left to us by Kishimoto - characters don't just randomly change things like that. Even look at his posture; it certainly resembles that of Madara. But again, ask yourself, how can Madara be alive at this time (Uchiha clan Massacre) if he died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan, a Rinnegan "given to Nagato" years before that?

Essentially, I believe that it's impossible for Tobi to be Obito in mind and soul if Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan, since Tobi and Madara are familiar with eachother. One could say that Nagato really did awaken the Rinnegan (though that presents a problem in itself since that'd be like saying you can awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan without awakening the 3 tomoe first), though this goes against overwhelming evidence in the manga. This stance, however, does allow for Tobi being Obito. The other route is that Madara really did give Nagato the Rinnegan, but that'd mean that Tobi is someone who was born before that time (because he and Madara know eachother and Madara should've died then) - he could not be Obito; rather, someone using Obito's body as a vessel.

To summarize: 'Tobi is Obito (in mind and body)' and 'Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan' are two mutually exclusive statements; they can't both be true at the same time.

Thoughts? Because, quite frankly, i'm stumped.

this is good but i can make you wrong if you see zetsu you can seee he luck like obito so the 1 ho create zetsu is obito o the one in side obito body

 

[Trollasaur]

Tobi is Obito 100% IMO, & Kabuto did say that rinnegan advances from Sharingan BUT did not say it's the only way, now how does Madara know Nagato? Maybe Madara didn't unlock it in the Hashirama fight or right before his death. Maybe that would happen for plot reasons, now why would Madara need to lie & if he did ask someone to give his eyes to Nagato how would he know him? Oh and why did Nagato not metion anything about his eyes be transplanted?

 

[MGX7]

you sir are a person who has put it together when the puzzle is still missing pieces we will just have to wait to see kishi explanation

 

[Ryu Tensai]

I believe it was implanted because kakshi sharingan was implanted but he could never turn it off hence forth nagato can not turn off his doujutsu

 

[DrizzyUzumaki]

You guys can call me a noob because I'm new to the site but I've been following naruto for awhile, I don't think Tobi is Obito still, I still believe its Izuna for the simple fact that 1) Madara knows Tobi. He can't know Obito he was dead.
2) Tobi keeps saying that the rinnegan was his to begin with which leads me to think that since Madara took Izunas eyes he considers the rinnegan that Madara unlocked due to his eyes making Madaras EMS.
I think that maybe Izuna used that jutsu oro uses to switch bodies too take Obitos battered body combined with some Zetsu DNA to make it function, but I'm just like everyone else waiting to see what Kishi does in the next chapter.

 

[Trollasaur]

Maybe Madara thinks Tobi is still pure Zetsu, he doesn't know that Zetsu fused with Obito?

 

[KidGamer65]

The problem with him being Obito is that they can't know each other due to timeline issues.

 

[KobayashiShane]

But how does this fit in with Tobi (who you believe to be Obito) knowing Madara on a personal level? Are you suggesting that Zetsu was Tobi at one point? I'm interested to see what people have to say.



Total misconception, Edo Tensei does not revive you the way you were before you died. The manga has never indicated what the situation is with regards to that jutsu. Why was Sasori brought back as a human if he died a puppet, for instance? Anyhow, kabuto said he completed Madara to beyond his prime so I believe that entailed him having a youthful body coupled with the Rinnegan (which he probably awakened when he was old and/or sick).

that's true about sasori and madara, but when nagato was revived he had white hair and was emaciated like he was after using rinne tensei. He didn't gain his youthful appearance until after he used the preta path to absorb Bee's chakra.

 

[OnPoint]

that's true about sasori and madara, but when nagato was revived he had white hair and was emaciated like he was after using rinne tensei. He didn't gain his youthful appearance until after he used the preta path to absorb Bee's chakra.

That's why the manga has been inconsistent with regards to Edo Tensei. There is nothing which states that it brings you back how you died.

 

[HiddenWarrior]

Simple .. Izuna owns Óbito's body

 

[kyuubigoku78]

Time travel is the only solution to this problem in my eyes, but then, why didn't Obito simply go back and kill Minato etc? In addition, he could've simply re-done many of the failed Akatsuki battles - i.e. gone back and helped Pain finish the job against Naruto, or stopped Nagato from killing himself/reviving Konoha.

i had a theory that time travel could be involved through Kamui but quickly debunked it. If Tobi could travel through time then any of the events didnt have to happen. Why would he need to fight Minato etc. Why would he have to wait generations to snag the kyuubi when he could have just went to a time when kushina was vulnerable and minato wasnt in sight?

 

[KisuneUchiha]

Time travel is the only solution to this problem in my eyes, but then, why didn't Obito simply go back and kill Minato etc? In addition, he could've simply re-done many of the failed Akatsuki battles - i.e. gone back and helped Pain finish the job against Naruto, or stopped Nagato from killing himself/reviving Konoha.

I believe tht he actually wanted tht so tht he could take nagato's rinnegan. And I believe tht maybe Tobi/ Obito lied about giving Nagato the Rinnegan just to make Konoan drop her guard, like he lied about being Madara to start a war. I also believe tht he studied up on Madara to the point of him seemingly knowing about him and tht Zetsu was alive around the time Madara was alive and the one who attacked Konoha was a diffferent person from the one Itachi met since wen he attacked Konoha he had short hair, and wen Itachi met him he had long hair.

 

[OnPoint]

i had a theory that time travel could be involved through Kamui but quickly debunked it. If Tobi could travel through time then any of the events didnt have to happen. Why would he need to fight Minato etc. Why would he have to wait generations to snag the kyuubi when he could have just went to a time when kushina was vulnerable and minato wasnt in sight?

That's why I doubt time travel's place in this manga.

I believe tht he actually wanted tht so tht he could take nagato's rinnegan. And I believe tht maybe Tobi/ Obito lied about giving Nagato the Rinnegan just to make Konoan drop her guard, like he lied about being Madara to start a war. I also believe tht he studied up on Madara to the point of him seemingly knowing about him and tht Zetsu was alive around the time Madara was alive and the one who attacked Konoha was a diffferent person from the one Itachi met since wen he attacked Konoha he had short hair, and wen Itachi met him he had long hair.

Tobi may've lied about giving Nagato the Rinnegan, but it doesn't explain how;

- Madara knew Nagato by name
- Nagato showed all the tendancies of a transplanted eye

Also note, Kishimoto himself confirmed that Madara and Tobi know eachother:

"Both ninja [Tobi and Madara] know one another. What kind of relationship do they have? Well, that will be gradually revealed as the story progresses!!"

So yeah, Madara could've lived to meet Itachi etc but not if he gave Nagato the Rinnegan, which the manga strongly suggests.

 

[KobayashiShane]

That's why the manga has been inconsistent with regards to Edo Tensei. There is nothing which states that it brings you back how you died.

That's true man. It's pretty crazy how many inconsistencies there are. I'm just looking forward to the next few chapters so maybe we can get a good explanation.

 

[EggesGabo]

how can Obito mature so early to take on his sensei whiles his mates were still kids? it makes no sense to me.

 

[kyuubigoku78]

I think Tobi is actually Zetsu fused with Obito's body. Obito is still alive but his mind and soul is sealed away and he is being controlled 100% by Zetsu. It could have been Madara's Plan all along to give someone his rinnegan to revive him. Madara gave Zetsu his eyes along with some of his chakra but Zetsu couldnt use the eyes. Zetsu later gave them to Nagato with Madara's chakra in Zetsu, Madara could see what Zetsu was doing. This explains lots of things including how Madara knows Nagato and how Madara knew the seals for edo tensei (other than the 2nd creating it).

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

nagatos rinnegan is natural. it doesnt deactivate but that doesnt prove much

 

[KidGamer65]

nagatos rinnegan is natural. it doesnt deactivate but that doesnt prove much

Proof ?

 

[Veys]

Then there's also the mysterious

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who met Itachi, a man who many members believe to be the real Madara Uchiha. After all, this is a visual manga and visual things (like haircuts) are clues left to us by Kishimoto - characters don't just randomly change things like that.

I think it was Obito(Tobi) who met up with Itachi ... becouse when Tobi first revealed his eyes to Sasuke .. Sasuke instantly attacked him with amateratsu... becouse Itachi knew that Tobi who helped him with the massacre would speak with Sasuke about the Truth and he didnt wanted Sasuke to know about that so did this ..

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Basiclly its the same eye who met up with Itachi that night .. so there's no clue about it .. it must have been Obito(current Tobi) .. but i do think that Madara knew Obito .. Probably when the boulder smashed Obito , Madara helped him and trained him to be stronger so if anything happened to Madara that he would continue with their plan and also ressurecting him with Nagato's eyes ... I also think that if its rly Obito he was probably brainwashed by Madara .. or even under a genjutsu .. becouse Obito had like the will of fire and i dont think he would turn out to be a villan like this ..

 

[The God of Wind]

I made this just to clear this confusion and any contradictions...just for you guys:

Spoiler

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