My problems with adult RSM Naruto

Prometheus 2000

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Basically kishi wanted to keep naruto simple, he probably realized that handing him multiple elements and TSB would give him a more diverse fighting style which probably isn't what kishi wants for the character. It happened to other characters as well e.g obito who was denied the use of the rinnegan to keep his fighting style simple.

As for universal comprehension, that was just DB hype naruto never had such a power if he did nothing would be unknown to him.

That's not exactly true. Even before he had Bijuu Mode, Naruto had Son Goku's power but didn't have the the knowledge to use his power without RSM. One could say that Son Goku providing his power was the reason why Naruto was capable of doing a Lava Rasenshuriken, but as we've seen in the manga one must train and learn to control a Bijuu's power in order to use it effectively.

Take this as you will, but according to the picture Naruto was able to spontaneously use Kaguya's attack with no problem with no prior training. I think that the 'universal comprehension' thing was signifying that Naruto was capable of learning almost any technique with no training.



Understanding how they work doesn't mean he has the ability to mold them in the way needed for Kekkei Genkai. The reason they're called Kekkei Genkai is because you need an innate predispostion to use them; it's literally limited by your blood. Bijuu are capable of lending their abilities to their host, but this does not mean they're giving the host the ability to naturally perform it.

If Naruto does not have the natural ability in his body to use a certain Kekkei Genkai, then it doesn't matter if he KNOWS how to do it, his body physically can't, which is why he'd need the Bijuu.

According to the manga, this is false. Madara, who said Naruto had the same power as him, was capable of using Storm Release Jutsu with no problem. Hagoromo directly compared Naruto to Kaguya too, the same person who could use Kimimaro's bloodline. That says a lot about the things Naruto should be capable of doing.
 
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lndra

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I still can't believe Naruto has not used Frog Kata (the invisible punching feature) :/

That to me was the biggest nerf. Because it has so much potential in close combat.
 

DHOH

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I still can't believe Naruto has not used Frog Kata (the invisible punching feature) :/

That to me was the biggest nerf. Because it has so much potential in close combat.

I look at Frog kata like I look at Kirin... Against powerful foes they are pretty to look at but won't get the job done.
 

lndra

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I look at Frog kata like I look at Kirin... Against powerful foes they are pretty to look at but won't get the job done.
I mean against shinobi who use big guns, sure. But the fighting scenes against Momoshiki?

Lame!
 

Nick01

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Kishi nerfed Naruto.That's basically it.

Naruto didn't use any of other FRS variants because it would kill the villain instantly.6 TSBRS and 9 Bijuu RS cant be tanked by any villain.

I agree.
 

oxtopus

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I don't know why you guys are so ignorant naaruto only has two forms of rsm what he is using is bsm and not rsm.
 

LightSo6p

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As we should all know by now, the mode that Naruto dons in Gaiden and in the Boruto movie is in fact RSM. Furthermore, we should all know by now that there are 3 forms of RSM Naruto.

Base RSM: The form Naruto donned when he kicked Madara's truth seeking ball.

Kurama Chakara RSM: The form adult Naruto dons.

9 bijuu RSM: The strongest and most epic form that Naruto donned in the battles against Rikudou Madara, Kaguya, and Sasuke.

Now I have a few gripes with the 2nd one (Kurama chakara RSM). To be honest, my gripes really aren't with the form itself, but more so the way Kishi handled the form.

1. My first gripe revolves around the abilities that Kishi had adult RSM Naruto show. As stated by the databook, RSM (even at base) grants all 5 nature transformations as well as yin-yang release, flight, immunity to truth seeking balls, supreme sensing capabilities, speed/reaction time that matches or surpasses that of a 10 tails jinchuuriki, and a universal understanding of chakara. Now the really important things to focus on here are the 5 nature transformations, the yin-yang release and the universal understanding of chakara.

With all chakara natures including yin-yang and a universal understanding of chakara (which would allow a person to automatically be a master at said natures without even having to train with them), Naruto should be able to easily use techniques such as a fire style rasenshuriken or kekkei genkai elements such as lava and boil release even if he doesn't have the chakaras of all the other bijuus (which he was not stated in any official source to have lost them by the way). In other words, even if Naruto did lose the other bijuus, he should still retain access to all the elements that they granted him just due to being in RSM (even in base RSM). Basically, the loss of the other bijuus if he did in fact lose them should essentially simply result in a slightly less amount of chakara for Naruto to draw from.

Additionally, it is also debatable that adult Naruto should have likely still been able to make truth seeking balls even without the 9 bijuus. Some people believe that the 9 bijuus were responsible for the truth seeking balls, but if you look closely in the manga, you'll notice a few things:

Hagoromo actually had truth seeking balls before becoming the 10 tails jinchuuriki as well as after his death. In other words, he had them at times when he did not have bijuu chakara. In both situations, it was just rikudou senjutsu (no bijuu chakara). This is at the very least a hint that rikudou senjutsu alone allows a person to use truth seeking balls.

Another thing to note is that when Obito stole some rikudou senjutsu chakara from Madara, he got a truth seeking ball, and if you pay attention then you will notice that he got the ball before grabbing onto Shukaku and Gyuki's chakaras. This is just another hint that rikudou senjutsu alone allows for the creation of truth seeking balls.

A big hint is also the fact that Hamura who was never a jinchuuriki to begin with (who is also actually not even listed as a user of rikudou senjutsu either) had truth seeking balls even without being in tenseigan chakara mode.

I won't get into Toneri.

Having noted all of these things, it stands to reason that Naruto at least in theory should still be able to make truth seeking balls even without the 9 bijuus.

Despite all of this, Kishi only had adult Naruto show manipulation of Kurama's chakara/body parts along with the usual shadow clone jutsu and rasengan. Now my problem is not that Naruto didn't use his full power. After all, Sasuke didn't use all the paths of the rinnegan either. My problem is that adult Naruto used so little of the things that he could have used, that it seemed as if he lost a lot of power. That is my problem. Despite being in RSM, everything that adult Naruto did were things that he could have done in normal BM or at times even KCM for that matter! He doesn't have to use absolutely everything in his arsenal necessarily, but I wish that Naruto used something that distinguished RSM from lesser modes (and no simple flight doesn't count).

Here is what I mean:

As I stated before, Sasuke didn't necessarily use all the paths of the rinnegan, but we at least got to see adult Sasuke use amenotejikara a few times along with that epic portal jutsu that adult Sasuke has. Kishi handled Sasuke well. With the way he handled adult Sasuke, we could still tell that Sasuke didn't lose rinnegan or that Kishi didn't just plain forget that Sasuke had it (and we could tell this by seeing his power in addition to just plain seeing the eye itself).

With Naruto on the other hand just using chakara arms and manifesting Kurama, for the longest time we couldn't tell what mode Naruto was in. Heck, when Gaiden RSM Naruto was first seen, I and a lot of other people thought it was BSM. The only way we were able to distinguish that it was RSM was by noting that the eyes were RSM eyes and that they lacked the sage mode pigmentation around them. It is not even like the RSM eyes are a dojutsu either! Kishi even made the cloak look like a normal BM cloak!

Basically Kishi did this:

He made adult Naruto use BM/KCM level power with absolutely nothing (no special elements or yin-yang or truth seeking balls) to give even the tiniest hint of Naruto having rikudou level power.

He gave the mode a BM/KCM looking design with only a small and non-prominent feature (the eyes) to indicate that it was RSM.

In summary, while Kishi technically didn't take RSM away from Naruto, he might as well have. What is the point of making it RSM if there is practically no distinguishing it from BSM? One special kekkei genkai element is all I ask. Just one boil release rasenshuriken or something like that! Just one little thing like that would distinguish RSM power just as a few little uses of amenotejikara distinguished that Sasuke could still use rinnegan. Is that so much to ask?

What do you guys think? Do you think that Kishi could have handled adult RSM a lot better and distinguished it from his lower forms a lot better?

Discuss

Naruto can make tsb anytime db say a person that master all 5 elements and yin yang release can do it .. Sasuke can if he wanted

You need senjutsu too had to fix
 

The Demon Hawk

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I mean against shinobi who use big guns, sure. But the fighting scenes against Momoshiki?

Lame!

It doesn't hold enough power to affect extremely powerful opponents like Momoshiki. Plus, Naruto's RSM is not related to TSM.
 

LightSo6p

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I don't know why you guys are so ignorant naaruto only has two forms of rsm what he is using is bsm and not rsm.

You really the ignorent one because everybody they showed use SM eyes change but i guess people cant comprehen whats in front of thier eyes and the rest just like to say je lost it
 

Liquid Snake

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I don't know why you guys are so ignorant naaruto only has two forms of rsm what he is using is bsm and not rsm.

It's clear its different forms of. Rsm displayed from naruto what he's saying if we go by how rsm is defined naruto should be using all elements and have the understanding to use any tech save eye techs . Also naruto can use all elements and therefore able to use any kkg. I mean all a kkg is is combining two elements
 

oxtopus

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It's clear its different forms of. Rsm displayed from naruto what he's saying if we go by how rsm is defined naruto should be using all elements and have the understanding to use any tech save eye techs . Also naruto can use all elements and therefore able to use any kkg. I mean all a kkg is is combining two elements

Then why do you guys still call what he used rsm instead of bsm,because the last time i checked rsm isn't only associated with one thing(no pigments around the eyes)
 

lndra

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It doesn't hold enough power to affect extremely powerful opponents like Momoshiki. Plus, Naruto's RSM is not related to TSM.
I'm not following. Why wouldn't Frog Kata work on Momoshiki?

Considering that RSM's Senjutsu is much more potent, that probably doesn't affect it. I believe SM's Naruto punch from the attack was enough to send one Pain unconscious, or dead for good. And, Frog Kata isn't something that's allowed in one SM or the other. They are both Sennin Modes.

Frog Kata isn't just one ability, it's multiple. Some of these are just used in general with SM.

Frog Kata said:
Kawazu Kumite

When someone learns Senjutsu they gain command of a terrifying Taijutsu. Basically in Sennin Modo by collecting natural energy they gain danger sensing powers (what Naruto uses to evade Sandaime Raikages attack, Kabuto to sense Amaterasu, etc..). They can sense the enemies movement, match enemies rhythm/speed, to release a severe counter. Energy is released from one part of the body, the attacks reach is extended (i think, little bit confusing here). There is no chink (or weak spot) in offense and defense, it's a flawless Taijutsu.

Ninjutsu didn't work on Pain so Naruto used Kawazu Kumite.

The attacks range extends substantially

Pain is sent flying away.
 

Jokule67

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Yes it doesn't have to impress me but nothing he did showed any universal comprehension of chakra expect the jesus technique which may or may not be a new technique granted by RSM. Sasuke, obito, madara, kaguya can also use yin-yang release and all basic elements no one says they have any universal understanding. Naruto hasn't shown anything that sets him apart from them.

So how can we know without reverting to DB hype that he actually has such an ability

He used the bijuu tech perfectly without any need of practice. Subconciously knew how to fly( comes with RSM). Any other you dont need proof of because he's only understanding nothing else. Another example would be how usually Naruto would have to have everything explained to him yet against kaguya he was rarely touched or fazed by none of her jutsu.

Any jutsu or special chakra Naruto goes up against he'd be able to analyze it. Thats all it means. And Sage of Six Paths is nothing BUT hype. Just take it as truth as I'm sure you dont question any other Six Paths Users power. Especially Hagaromos.
 

Liquid Snake

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Then why do you guys still call what he used rsm instead of bsm,because the last time i checked rsm isn't only associated with one thing(no pigments around the eyes)

Because naruto still has rikudo chakra so its not bsm .Also naruto can fly which proves he has rsm but kishi just nerfs him taking away tsb which would give perfect def to some one who can already tank almost anything. Also naruto should be using all elements and since rsm helps the user understand chakra completely which means naruto can learn/use any tech save eye techs
 

oxtopus

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Because naruto still has rikudo chakra so its not bsm .Also naruto can fly which proves he has rsm but kishi just nerfs him taking away tsb which would give perfect def to some one who can already tank almost anything. Also naruto should be using all elements and since rsm helps the user understand chakra completely which means naruto can learn/use any tech save eye techs

When did naruto fly???having rikuduou chakra is different form rikudou sennin mode,and what of the super speed,strength,yellow eyes,yellow cloak,light speed reflexes???where were all those,naruto hasn't shown one thing related to what we saw of rsm since the last fight in the manga.Yet you stll say it's rsm because of no pigmentation,how ignorant.
 

DHOH

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It took out pain your saying he was weak?

Yes.. Pain is very weak compared to all the threats came after his arc... Also pain has no defense or durability.
 

DHOH

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When did naruto fly???having rikuduou chakra is different form rikudou sennin mode,and what of the super speed,strength,yellow eyes,yellow cloak,light speed reflexes???where were all those,naruto hasn't shown one thing related to what we saw of rsm since the last fight in the manga.Yet you stll say it's rsm because of no pigmentation,how ignorant.

Naruto showed super speed and strength in both the latest movies..
 
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