[Discussion] my oppinion why yonkou is not the same lvl of fleet or admiral lvl

[24 12 11 to troll]

There is no difference between the strength of an Admiral, Fleet Admiral or Yonkou as a collective group when considering average strength; simply put: they're all on the same tier (more or less). A Fleet Admiral isn't always the strongest of the Admirals, and Yonkou aren't always the four strongest pirates.

Perfect examples are when Kuzan was nominated as Fleet Admiral and yet Sakazuki has since shown to be superior in strength, there is nothing except our opinions to judge whether he is stronger or weaker than Borsalino, Ryokugyu and Issho. There is simply no substance in the argument that the Fleet Admiral is always stronger. In fact, Garp (whom wasn't even an Admiral) is commonly regarded as the strongest Marine of recent times.

The Yonkou obviously vary in strength, from Shanks; whom could stop one of Sakazuki's attacks without too much trouble to Blackbeard whom probably still wouldn't force an Admiral into a high difficulty victory. Their title is determined by their influence politically, economically, socially and strength wise. It's not just based on strength. This gives rise to the possibility of other Pirates we haven't heard of yet being on par with some of the Yonkou. In fact if it was just based on strength then there would be no Blackbeard, Mihawk would likely be a Yonkou instead.

 

[kageking]

I thought this was well established. The yonkou are yonkou because the marines can't handle them.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Yonkou and Admiral level doesn't exist. Its WB, his crew, 44 NW Captains n' their crews and Luffy's team versus not even the full force of the marines and the WB alliance suffered a CRUSHING defeat. Not one Marine top tier(or high tier) were beaten.

-Akainu only got hurt because of a sneak attack
-Aokiji only get minor scratches due to a sneak attack from Jozu n' Marco
-Kizaru was fine
-Jozu was beaten and Mroc would've been KO'd if Kizaru wasn't careless
-WB was still the strongest yonkou but his illness was screwing him over

Roger=Prime WB>Garp>Shiki=Shanks= Dragon>Old WB=Akainu=Big Mam=Kaidou>Kuzan=Teach=Sengoku=Fujitora=Kizaru

Roger beats Kizaru high diff.

 

[chopstickchakra]

I think you misunderstood my post. I was addressing the OP's logic that all of that preparation for WB means WB is stronger the admirals is faulty because if it was just WB, he would be raped. It's far more than what's necessary. A single Yonko would drive a single Admiral to extreme diff in a 1 vs 1.

That makes more sense I thought you were telling him to leave out WB's crew but were including the Navy in the is Yonko>Admiral debate. I just wanted to clarify.

 

[Bogard]

It's the same level, but what i can agree with is that the yonkous are stronger on average

 

[Kiiszame]

I guess we will find out in the final war won't we?

 

[Mugiwara kun]

in a 1v1 fight,I do believe an admiral will loose except you're old WB. But I keep wondering,if it was prime WB in that war,would it have made a difference? I believe So. Marco wouldn't have been distracted to get hit and same with Jozu who I believe are just below Admiral lvl and prime WB would have been able to use Haki. Akainu wouldn't have been left with just a scratch,he would have been knocked out....

 

[Olorin]

in a 1v1 fight,I do believe an admiral will loose except you're old WB. But I keep wondering,if it was prime WB in that war,would it have made a difference? I believe So. Marco wouldn't have been distracted to get hit and same with Jozu who I believe are just below Admiral lvl and prime WB would have been able to use Haki. Akainu wouldn't have been left with just a scratch,he would have been knocked out....

WB did use Haki :/

 

[Yonko]

garp sengoku kizaru and a bit of aokiji really didnt do much. and they didnt even need doffy and mihawk tbh.

marines were actually taking it easy against wb pirates. these mofukas were outclassed.

 

[A v i]

Given the fact that he couldn't even dodge an incoming attack from a fodder like Squard, MF Wb was a garbage when you compare him with his healthy state. Yet his fighting capabilities are on par with that of an admiral. Still people think that he's on the same table as admirals?

If I remember correctly Akainu was desperate about killing Luffy back then. He even went through the trouble of going against all of WB commanders. Yet for some reason the same bloodlusted Akainu who went against all of WB commanders didn't lift a finger to attack admiral level Shanks .Lol

 

[Olorin]

He even went through the trouble of going against all of WB commanders. Yet for some reason the same bloodlusted Akainu who went against all of WB commanders didn't lift a finger to attack admiral level Shanks .Lol

............. What?

Second, being betrayed by a friend and stabbed by surprise doesn't make you garbage

 

[Mugiwara kun]

WB did use Haki :/

through,But he never used it extensively cos his life force wasn't that strong. He was plans sick

 

[Olorin]

through,But he never used it extensively cos his life force wasn't that strong. He was plans sick

he didn't use it because Oda didn't yet know what exactly he will do with Haki

 

[Anduril]

he didn't use it because Oda didn't yet know what exactly he will do with Haki

By that stupid logic Enel is above admiral level to everyone except luffy, pre-skip. Actually all logia's are above admiral level. And a fight between Crocodile and Kizaru should never end. Beacause hey Oda did not know there was Haki. So stop bringing the real world knowledge into the one piece world. Because that creates non-sense.

 

[Olorin]

By that stupid logic Enel is above admiral level to everyone except luffy, pre-skip. Actually all logia's are above admiral level. And a fight between Crocodile and Kizaru should never end. Beacause hey Oda did not know there was Haki. So stop bringing the real world knowledge into the one piece world. Because that creates non-sense.

no, enel is weak becasue he got his ass handed to him by Luffy, fruit or no a guy close to being admiral lvl kills pre gears Luffy no dif 99999999 out of 99999999 times

and by your stupid logic Vergo has better haki than Whitebeard+the commanders+Sengoku+the admirals+all the other vice admirals+mihawk+... combined

I'm not bringing the real world knowledge into OP lol, we're talking about Haki, are you saying there is Haki in real world? cuz that's just f'd up

 

[Olorin]

Why so stupid son? I wont bother replying to this.



This is your logic don't dump that shit around as mine. Do you even understand what you post?




You should start grade school all over again. I said that don't bring the fact that oda had not thoroughly developed the concept of Haki into the discussion because even if he did not then, it still existed in the OP world.

How much more dumb can you get.

so polite

1. why not reply to it? enel is weak and a near admiral lvl character would kill luffy with or without a DF, Enel failed miserably

2. it's not my logic, it's yours, someone said WB couldn't use haki at MF extensively, I argued that Oda didn't know yet what exactly Haki was and that MF isn't a good Arc to measure Haki levels and you started arguing against me, ergo you agree with what the guy said (''through,But he never used it extensively cos his life force wasn't that strong. He was plans sick'') so you agree that the Haki portraial at MF was correct and consistent and that everyone there had incredibly weak Haki ... and than you started with the insults

3. why teh hell wouldn't I bring the AUTHOR of OP into an OP discussion? you say ''even if ... bla bla bla'' but wtf are you talking about? yes retrospectively we now see that Haki existed in the OPV but the MF arc is a TERRIBLE example of what and how strong haki is OR who and to what extend can use it because half of the OP heavy weights were there and no one used the goddamn Haki so when someone says that WB's Haki was weak and I say it only looked weak because Oda didn't know what he wanted to do at that point what the hell do you have a problem with? When I say that Oda didn't know what to do with Haki at MF and that even though NONE of the top tiers use it like they should (looking at the arc retrospectively) and that the MF arc is terrible at measuring Haki, I have the ENTIRE MF arc to back me up, but than you just come up here and start shouting insults like a confused little kid without his mommy to fight his battles or tell him not to talk like a bad bad boy (and spank him)

have a nice day

 

[A v i]

............. What?

Second, being betrayed by a friend and stabbed by surprise doesn't make you garbage

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he didn't use it because Oda didn't yet know what exactly he will do with Haki

Writer of OP doesn't know what he'll do with something that greatly effects his manga? Lol

So you think Oda introduced Haki without even knowing how it'll effect the plot in future?

so polite

1. why not reply to it? enel is weak and a near admiral lvl character would kill luffy with or without a DF, Enel failed miserably

2. it's not my logic, it's yours, someone said WB couldn't use haki at MF extensively, I argued that Oda didn't know yet what exactly Haki was and that MF isn't a good Arc to measure Haki levels and you started arguing against me, ergo you agree with what the guy said (''through,But he never used it extensively cos his life force wasn't that strong. He was plans sick'') so you agree that the Haki portraial at MF was correct and consistent and that everyone there had incredibly weak Haki ... and than you started with the insults

3. why teh hell wouldn't I bring the AUTHOR of OP into an OP discussion? you say ''even if ... bla bla bla'' but wtf are you talking about? yes retrospectively we now see that Haki existed in the OPV but the MF arc is a TERRIBLE example of what and how strong haki is OR who and to what extend can use it because half of the OP heavy weights were there and no one used the goddamn Haki so when someone says that WB's Haki was weak and I say it only looked weak because Oda didn't know what he wanted to do at that point what the hell do you have a problem with? When I say that Oda didn't know what to do with Haki at MF and that even though NONE of the top tiers use it like they should (looking at the arc retrospectively) and that the MF arc is terrible at measuring Haki, I have the ENTIRE MF arc to back me up, but than you just come up here and start shouting insults like a confused little kid without his mommy to fight his battles or tell him not to talk like a bad bad boy (and spank him)

have a nice day

You think Oda doesn't know what to with haki back then? Are u even serious?

Haki works as an invisible armour to defend against enemy :

1. Sentomaru used it to deflect Luffy's attacks.
2. Boa sisters used it against Luffy.
3. Admirals used haki to deflect WB's attack.

Haki increases ones attack power.

1. Shanks VS WB
2.Sentomaru VS Luffy.
3.Luffy vs Boa sisters.

It helps you to counter DF's.

Luffy VS Sentomaru.
WB VS Akainu.
Ace VS Akainu.
Marco VS Kizaru.
Jozu VS Aokiji.
Garp vs Marco.
Kizaru VS Rayleigh.
Luffy VS Boa sisters.
Hancock VS Smoker.
Crock VS Jozu.

Now tell me what is that Oda doesn't know about haki back then? :Omg:

As someone already said, he couldn't use it effectively because he was sick not because Oda doesn't know what he'll do with haki. Rayleigh can only use KH 2 times in a row which proves that your age effects your haki. Look at Chinjao for example. WB was sick on top of being Old which is why he couldn't fight effectively.

 

[Olorin]

Now tell me what is that Oda doesn't know about haki back then? :Omg:

if you didn't notice teh difference in the portrayal of Haki pre TS (MF, ...) and Post TS (Vergo, Luffy, Doflamingo, ...) than I can't help you :/

I'm a fan of OP too and I'd rather there were no inconsistencies, but neither OP nor Oda are perfect and while OP might be good and has very little issues for such a long manga, Haki inconsistency might just be the biggest one

Haki (most likely) appeared in ch. 1 but don't pretend like it has been consistent for 775 chapters because it hasn't, it was clear that Oda didn't have an ide what would become of it back then

 

[Punk Hazard]

There are no inconsistencies regarding Busoshoku Haki. Oda had over 15 instances of Busoshoku Haki before the timeskip, and gave the explanation that established what Haki prior to the timeskip. The only iffy thing is why Oda didn't incorporate Koka into the war of the best, and chances are, it's the same reason as to why Oda left Shiki out of WB's and Shanks' conversation and why he didn't give an explanation as to several characters' powers: It would have just confused the reader.

Yes, characters not using Koka prior to the timeskip is strange, but to say Oda didn't have an idea of what Busoshoku Haki was and what it could do prior to the timeskip is foolish. No good author, much less a great one like Oda, would incorporate a half-assed idea fifteen times and give an universal, definite explanation for it before he has a grasp of what he wants to do or what it is, and keep them consistent with each other and usages after the timeskip.

 

[Olorin]

There are no inconsistencies regarding Busoshoku Haki. Oda had over 15 instances of Busoshoku Haki before the timeskip, and gave the explanation that established what Haki prior to the timeskip. The only iffy thing is why Oda didn't incorporate Koka into the war of the best, and chances are, it's the same reason as to why Oda left Shiki out of WB's and Shanks' conversation and why he didn't give an explanation as to several characters' powers: It would have just confused the reader.

Yes, characters not using Koka prior to the timeskip is strange, but to say Oda didn't have an idea of what Busoshoku Haki was and what it could do prior to the timeskip is foolish. No good author, much less a great one like Oda, would incorporate a half-assed idea fifteen times and give an universal, definite explanation for it before he has a grasp of what he wants to do or what it is, and keep them consistent with each other and usages after the timeskip.

what it comes down to is that if Oda were to rewrite MF Haki would be shown very differently than it was all those years ago, he knew Haki was a thing but he didn't know what everything it was, the biggest difference is visual, but it can't be denied that Haki at MF was poorly done, a group of high tiers fighting and their Haki looked weaker than in the Luffy v Chinjao fight even if we all (should) know it wasn't, it's not an inconsistency of existence of Haki in teh manga, it's an inconsistency of portrayal of Haki

and there is the issue here, the portrayal of haki at MF is outdated and the Haki shown by the top tiers there seems unimpressive compared to what we get now, Oda did not have the full idea of Haki from the start, the issue that started all this was that someone said WBs Haki was weak judging by MF and that is all I wanted to reply to so I'll just stop here becasue this has gotten ridiculous