My idea on how minato got KCM

[AGoodBoy]

A little analysis on how minato may have been able to just go KCM out of the blue. It's a bit lengthy so have fun.

Minato the Jin

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Basically, Minato Sealed half of kurama's chakra inside himself, but he never sealed the fox. When The reaper seal was unleashed, minato was released, but the kyuubi chakra was still within him (essentially making him a jin).

This is because, all that's needed to be a jin is for you to have the beast sealed within you. But, when you typically use RDS, you die. But, with minato, a loophole was created. He was revived. In a sense, minato became a jinchuriki.

This is because, when the RDS seal was released, minato's soul was released from RDS, along with everyone elses,
but, the fox's soul was never released from the RDS minato used on it.

If you notice, when RDS is performed, the target is sealed within the casters body, and both the target and the caster dies. This severe repercussion, death, completely removed this jutsu as a viable means to creating a jinchuriki out of a person... until the loophole was created whereby the caster was revived with the target's soul still sealed within himself. And, As we know, in order to create a jinchuriki, the target's body is sealed within the hosts body -- Similar to RDS -- But, neither the host, nor the target dies. This is the essential difference between jin sealing and RDS - Death.

Naruto's KM

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Now, lets add onto this. Minato never sealed kurama inside himself, he only sealed 50% of the chakra. And, sealed the other 50% + the fox's soul inside of naruto. Therefore, naruto had to play tug of war with the kyuubi to get about 5% of the 50% of kurama chakra inside of himself. Naruto could then entire KM with that 5% whenever he wanted because it was now essentially 'his chakra'.

So, The main difference between Minato being a Jin, And naruto being a Jin is that naruto contained the soul and 50% of the fox's chakra, whereas Minato could only contain 50% of the fox's chakra - it was too great for him to absorb 100% and the soul. For example, this is similar to what hiruzen did to orochimaru; He sealed away orochimaru's jutsu(guessing by sealing 100% of his chakra), but he wasn't able to seal orochimaru's soul. Therefore, though Hiruzen now had orochimaru's Chakra/whatever, he didn't contain orochimaru's soul, and therefore didn't actually have orochimaru inside himself.

Naruto's BM

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Going on from there, Since naruto contained the kyuubi's soul, he also had this entity within himself that could protest; Naruto required co-operation with the kyuubi to enter BM, but we'll get to that later. In essense, they worked in Unison so that naruto would have 100% access to his full 50% share of kyuubi chakra. This allowed naruto to enter a new mode, BM. But, he couldn't attain a 'true' full transformation as he only had 1 half of the kyuubi's chakra, so the seal couldn't be completely broken. Therefore, his BM looked like what it does, and his full BM transformations simply looked like a giant chakra cloak. But, the essential thing is that, naruto gained access to 100% of the entire 50% of kyuubi chakra inside him -- Not just the 5% he plucked away which allowed for KM.

Minato BM

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So, what does this mean for minato? Essentially, Minato has 100% of his 50% share of kyuubi chakra. But, and this is the important part, there is no fox inside him(unless proven otherwise) to protest. He does not contain the foxes soul.

Basically, instead of a 5% pool that allowed for a slight bump in power( KCM ), minato had access to a very large pool which contained all of the 50% of the kyuubi's chakra. how is this possible?

Well, Because naruto contained the fox's soul, there was always something between naruto and the fox's chakra. The fox acted as a gateway between naruto and it's chakra and only allowed naruto to get what the fox deemed fit for his survival. When I say his survival, I actually mean the fox's survival. LEt's not forget that the fox hated naruto, but the fox also needed naruto. The fox despised helping anyone, but if naruto died, so would the fox; therefore, the fox had to do all it could to ensure naruto's survival. When naruto needed it, the fox would give him a bump of character (maybe 0.01%) to get him into a nice V1 Km1 cloak, or maybe (let's say 0.1%) to get him into a Km4 mode, at which point the fox's malice would overcome him.

So, Naruto had to play tug of war with the fox in order to acheive greater feats. In order for him to go into a full 'V2' mode without losing his control, he had to take a great enough portion of chakra, remove from the stronghold( the fox's body inside of him) and out into an area where he could have unlimited access to it without the worry of the fox seeping any of his malice and psyche into the loaned chakra in order to overcome naruto. But, During the tug of war the fox held onto some chakra. The fox never completely lost all of it's chakra because it couldn't(it would die), nor could naruto pull it all out -- it was too great.

With that little battle, naruto gained a 'pool' of chakra floating somewhere in his psyche that he could tap into. But this was only, maybe, 5% of the fox's chakra. On the other hand, Minato essential has

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, but on a level where it is the entire portion of the fox's chakra. And, Because he never contained the fox's spirit, there was never a gateway keeper/a barrier/a stronghold to go through to access this wealth of chakra. He had that floating mass of chakra (the same one naruto played tug of war for) floating around inside him completely unguarded. It was like naruto had to break into the USA's secret facilities and steal a few of their weapons, whereas minato simply had them lying on the floor with no one to guard them.

He had access to a wealth of chakra with nothing restricting him from using it.

Not a true BM though

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But, there is one thing you'd notice. Minato doesn't have an actual bijuu inside himself. He doesn't have that fox's spirit. hH only has an unrestricted access to 50% of the most powerful bijuu's power. Therefore, minato cannot truly enter BM, but he can enter an Advanced KCM (super saiyan 1.5).

This allows his powers in KCM to be much greater than naruto's KCM (more chakra = more power as we've seen with naruto going 1 tail, 2 tail, 3 tail, KCM, BM and jin and kin going 4 tail V2, etc.), but are a bit lower than naruto's BM -- due to the simple fact that there isn't a fox spirit. Though the fox's actual spirit isn't too necessary to do most things (BD, chakra arms, etc.) it is essential for when the fox needs to collect chakra, or help break the jin out of genjutsu, and also some help from the fox in other ways.

Would Minato be able to use TBB and all that yada? Yes, he should. It's just collecting the right quantities of the blue and black chakra balls.
Would he be able to break genjutsu? No.
Would he have an automatic Defence cloak( Seen when kyuubi would automatically defend naruto before he ever acheived KM/BM )? No. There is no fox soul inside him to act against his will to protect against attacks or simply fight.

He has no extra help from a 'second mind'.

Final Note
It's possible that this is what's going on because jin and kin were able to enter V2 with absolutely 0 of the kyuubi's will. All they had was a small portion of it's chakra. But, What I'm saying, Is that minato has that, but at a grander level. A level so big that he can surpass V2, and KCM, and enter an advanced KCM.

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A little Extra

Sage of Six Paths
Based on these recent discoveries, it has even come to my attention that this is a similar tactic employed by the sage. The sage was a master of seals, and it wouldn't be a stretch to think that he new an RDS like jutsu, which allowed him to seal a target in himself, which didn't kill him. I think that the sage may have sealed the complete, 100%, of the juubi's chakra, or maybe even 99% of it into his body. Why? Because, the sage sealed 'the empty shell' of the juubi into the moon. From what we've seen from Jin creation, the beast would simply be sealed inside your body. There'd be no 'empty shell' left over to even cast away.

The sage used a sealing method to completely, or almost completely, extra the juubi's chakra, then used chibaku tensei to seal the body in the moon.

This would be VERY beneficial to him as;
Without the soul of the juubi, there would never be any entity residing in his mind to taint him. He'd never have to suffer, or risk suffering, the temptations of the juubi's malice.
The juubi would be a VERY weakened, or completely drained, beast which could do absolutely no harm, and who would not have the strength to break through chibaku tensei. All it's energy would be sealed within the sage until the day he died.

*this is out of scope of this thread but i'll make it short*
The sage probably split the juubi's chakra into 9 beasts because, if he died with it, all the chakra would dissipate and slowly accumulate back in the juubi (reincarnation/ some other spiritual reasoning) and, without him, that would be catastrophic. But, simply creating 1 beast with that much power would be moronic, so he made 9 which would not be nearly as harmful as 1.
Then he split the rest of his chakra into his two sons. Giving his body to younger, and eyes to his elder or something. I'm not sage boy, that's derp obito, go ask me, I'm done, jeez.

EDIT: Few discrepancies;
- "RDS doesn't seal the soul in user, it's consumed into reaper"
- "1st/2nd's soul were returned even though they were sealed in hiruzen"
- "Why doesn't hiruzen have oro's jutsu" (We haven't seen him not use them, so who knows)

If anyone would like to try answer them. Didn't notice the contradictions here-there.

Hope you enjoyed the Read​

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

The user does not seal the target within themselves both the target and the caster are sealed within the death god.
If you follow the logic you created here;

"If you notice, when RDS is performed, the target is sealed within the casters body, and both the target and the caster dies. "

Then neither the first nor the second could possibly be released from the seal since according to you they should be sealed within the castor which would be hiruzen,and since they have obviously been released from the death god they couldn't have possibly be sealed within hiruzen who was the castor.


I have no idea what kishi plans on doing to explain how minato got a hold of this chakra but,i will give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Note how he says i will seal half of the chakra along with myself not i will seal the chakra inside me.

The keyword is ALONG minato and the other half were being sealed together at the same time not into one or the other.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

"He sealed away orochimaru's jutsu(guessing by sealing 100% of his chakra), but he wasn't able to seal orochimaru's soul. Therefore, though Hiruzen now had orochimaru's Chakra/whatever, he didn't contain orochimaru's soul, and therefore didn't actually have orochimaru inside himself."


Not to mention if hiruzen sealed oro the same way why doesn't he harbor oro's chakra ?
You mention that he did which is not true,because when the seal was opened oro's chakra returned to him.

 

[Fidelity]

hmm... you may b right 2 some extend

 

[AGoodBoy]

Alright, That's good questions. The simple answer may be;

Minato didn't seal the fox's soul so there was nothing to return to it. He still had the chakra in himself, or he added a 'failsafe' seal ontop of it while he was applying the 8 trigram to naruto.

And, Hiruzen sealed the soul of all 3, but he only incompletely sealed Oro. He sealed oro's real soul which contained his jutsu, but he didn't have enough time (dying) to finish extract the soul that was currently residing in the body so ORo didn't die. We know oro can come back from CS's because he places a bit of his whatever in them, so that can be a reason he survived the soul extract.

RDS seals the target inside the host, then their soul are carried into the demon. Minato never took kurama's soul, only 50% of the chakra. Or, he took part of it's soul and 50% of the chakra, but only the soul was returned since that mass of chakra couldn't just fly through the air.

 

[AlphaScythian]

So minato has tamed kyuubi chakra in other world, big deal.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Alright, That's good questions. The simple answer may be;

Minato didn't seal the fox's soul so there was nothing to return to it. He still had the chakra in himself, or he added a 'failsafe' seal ontop of it while he was applying the 8 trigram to naruto.

And, Hiruzen sealed the soul of all 3, but he only incompletely sealed Oro. He sealed oro's real soul which contained his jutsu, but he didn't have enough time (dying) to finish extract the soul that was currently residing in the body so ORo didn't die. We know oro can come back from CS's because he places a bit of his whatever in them, so that can be a reason he survived the soul extract.

RDS seals the target inside the host, then their soul are carried into the demon. Minato never took kurama's soul, only 50% of the chakra. Or, he took part of it's soul and 50% of the chakra, but only the soul was returned since that mass of chakra couldn't just fly through the air.

"Minato didn't seal the fox's soul so there was nothing to return to it. He still had the chakra in himself, or he added a 'failsafe' seal ontop of it while he was applying the 8 trigram to naruto. "

That is exactly my point.Both situations were the same.Both were unable to fully seal away the soul.
So both outcomes should of been the same,which means when the seal was undone both oro's chakra and the remaining kurama chakra should of been sent back to the original owners.Oro's returned to him yet kurama's did not.

The only logical conclusion is that he did place another seal on top of the rds,however i have just finished reading that chapter for the thousandth time today.He never,ever mentions or hints at doing another seal.And if he did it was not shown within that chapter and if kishi decides to use a flash back as a way of including a scene that was not originally present then i will have loss some respect for him as a writer.Shoehorning in new scenes to fix a past problem is very novice.

So as it stands we can conclude that there is no solid reason that we are aware of as of right now that explains without a doubt why minato has that chakra.



You keep saying the host seals the target within himself.

Go and study up on the rds it in no way does what your implying.

Both the castor and the target get sealed in the rds not each other.

 

[AGoodBoy]

"Minato didn't seal the fox's soul so there was nothing to return to it. He still had the chakra in himself, or he added a 'failsafe' seal ontop of it while he was applying the 8 trigram to naruto. "

That is exactly my point.Both situations were the same.Both were unable to fully seal away the soul.
So both outcomes should of been the same,which means when the seal was undone both oro's chakra and the remaining kurama chakra should of been sent back to the original owners.Oro's returned to him yet kurama's did not.

The only logical conclusion is that he did place another seal on top of the rds,however i have just finished reading that chapter for the thousandth time today.He never,ever mentions or hints at doing another seal.And if he did it was not shown within that chapter and if kishi decides to use a flash back as a way of including a scene that was not originally present then i will have loss some respect for him as a writer.Shoehorning in new scenes to fix a past problem is very novice.

So as it stands we can conclude that there is no solid reason that we are aware of as of right now that explains without a doubt why minato has that chakra.



You keep saying the host seals the target within himself.

Go and study up on the rds it in no way does what your implying.

Both the castor and the target get sealed in the rds not each other.

I'm just trying to clean kishi's mess really.

I didn't say they were sealed within each other. I said the target is sealed inside the caster and both their souls are thrown into the reaper. As in, that's why the caster gets a seal on his stomach, and that's why, when the reaper cuts the souls, the caster and targets souls are melded together. What i'm saying is that the target is first brought into the casters body and from there, their combined souls are sealed as 1 or something along those lines.

Who knows, maybe, since the souls are thrown in as a merged unit, they all return to the caster as 1. Until we see more, we really have no way of knowing whether hiruzen can infact use hashi, tobi and orochi's jutsu's. If he can, then expect that explanation to come from kishi, until then, i'm really just trying to make some sense of cloudy nonsense. The hardest part is figuring out how minato even kept his 50% of the kyuubi's chakra/soul.