[Discussion] My biggest complaint about sanji (Rant)

[Tomato God]

I DONT CARE HOW STRONG ANY ONE IS FULL DISCLOSER THIS IS ABOUT CONCEPTS BEING CREATED AND NOT UTILIZED
My biggest complaint with sanji
Is the same complaint I had about sakura

Spoiler

paired up with the strongest people in the series, sees that they are the weakest of the three tries to keep up and just doesn't, no character resolve for this its just clearly that they failed and it is left unaddressed

when someone in a show says they don't want to be left behind or they want to grow stronger and they don't it makes me upset.
A character's strength has little to do with how I feel about them and likely will never but when sanji was introduced and I would be fine if the fire kicking cook always was just a strong member of the crew like brook franky or robin just don't lump him in with the two strongest characters we have in the main cast (Luffy and zoro) just to remove him from there constantly over and over.

Take for instance the super rookies only 2/3 of the "monster trio" is included as super rookies. People that have fought the main enemy of any arc (win or lose) 2/3's of the monster trio. People that got to train with ledgends over the two year skip 2/3's of the "monster trio" Why start a monster trio if you arent going to actually keep the concept going its very clear in this "year of sanji" that Jimbie and brook have out shown sanji in his own arc. Since coming to the new world Oda has made it clear that sanji isnt as strong as his companions and maybe he would stop using the monster trio trope which is fine but why would he go out of his way to make sanji and zoro rivals early on if he is just going to let sanji fall behind.

It boils my viewers blood when an author sets up a concept and then forgets it completely Why have consant color spreads and sub-plots and character interactions that make it seem like sanji and zoro will always be rivals when in actuality it seems like zoro is the better crew mate and the stronger fighter, when you could have never had them be rivals and they both would have still been great characters because they are both great characters.

Oda just divided a fanbase (which isnt bad) for 2 decades (again kinda impressive) Then just gave up on that core concept in the crew dynamic.

Sanji not being zoro's opposite anymore is like Nami not being greedy anymore or robin not being dark.

And another smaller complaint about sanji when we were introduced to the character we saw three equal aspects of him
1.) he hates when you waste food
2.) he is a crazy pervert
3.) Just as strong as luffy and zoro

But now the only thing the character has kept is his perverted ways, which would be fine but why waste 2 decades of character arc to drop 2/3's of what make him who he is.

Like fuck.


Edit
It actually gets worse because when you look at the other straw hats they got better with time or atleast stayed the same.
Luffy

Spoiler

is a carefree tough and rubble simple minded meat lover and in a lot of ways still is. But now we see he understands loss and he understands a lot more of how harsh the seas can be but he still smiles and laughs

Zoro

Spoiler

is a badass swordsma who doesnt care about anything but being stronger than mihawk when we first meet him a heavy drinker and a hardheaded guy. And as we progress he finds his crew more valuable than all of that which is an insane developement for such a cool character

Nami

Spoiler

A crooked theif who only cares about money at first but actually is a super genius who loves her village and spent her whole life protecting it. Nami eventually learns to control the weather becoming the best navigator on the seas she is passionate and smart something we constantly see

Ussop

Spoiler

A dreamer and a story teller intially weak and scrawny but then you see how he grows to be the best shot we have ever see so far a man of conviction a creativity

Chopper

Spoiler

A goofy doctor who doesnt trust people because he has been hurt childish but caring something we see more and more throughout his character arc

Robin

Spoiler

Archeoligst woman of mystery, super cool demenor cooler powers, we know everything about her but somehow she still remains mysterious. She is shown to value the strawhats more than herself and will do the right thing in her own way every time. Super informed and resourceful.

Franky

Spoiler

The most manly man that isnt quite a man only gets bigger and more manly Its like if he was anymore macho he would be pure testotirone. The robot goes from goofy villan to layered mature almost fatherly figure and something we see him be constantly

Brook

Spoiler

The goofy skeleton is awesomely strong from the first time we see him to the most recent, immortal and holds himself to a high moral standard. Very polite and considerate. This musican only gets better with age

BUT
Sanji

Spoiler

Started off as a super suave cook who would kick your ass if you wasted his food, a lady's man rivally zoro's strength in the crew and he quickly devolved into a character who's only thing is that he will die if he sees women. Only crew memeber in the new world who hasn't won a single fight yet. Like a single one. And his pervertedness almost kille him like 4 times.

 

[chopstickchakra]

The only thing I didn't really like was that he went willingly and saw it as some form of saving his crew and seemed to think his crew would just accept the decision once they learned about it. It's like he completely forgot EL. And before you say well they were facing a Yonkou, they were facing the WG and at an earlier and less trained stage in their pirate career so kind of a more dangerous scenario back then and Sanji still went forward to get his crewmate back.

Now I know he had to end up on WCI for the story but Sanji could have been taken by force and resisted and then been kept there by the situations. I just didn't like him trying tto rationalize his choice but at least that action showed that somewhere in him he knew it was the wrong call.

 

[Tomato God]

The only thing I didn't really like was that he went willingly and saw it as some form of saving his crew and seemed to think his crew would just accept the decision once they learned about it. It's like he completely forgot EL. And before you say well they were facing a Yonkou, they were facing the WG and at an earlier and less trained stage in their pirate career so kind of a more dangerous scenario back then and Sanji still went forward to get his crewmate back.

Now I know he had to end up on WCI for the story but Sanji could have been taken by force and resisted and then been kept there by the situations. I just didn't like him trying tto rationalize his choice but at least that action showed that somewhere in him he knew it was the wrong call.

I thought he went because he cared about his family no matter how much he lied it was cause he couldn't stop caring about them.

 

[chopstickchakra]

I thought he went because he cared about his family no matter how much he lied it was cause he couldn't stop caring about them.

Maybe and that would be a better reason than believing he was saving his crew. I'd prefer for that to be the reason, I'm going with that from now on.

 

[Love Cook]

There is so much wrong with that analysis, the things you use to compare him with to other strawhats are badly picked.

Sanji easily disposed of Wadatsumi on FI btw, and didn't get a fight on Dressrosa. So what you're saying about him not winning in the NW is wrong and it distorts the stats since he was M.I.A for a year.

But Sanji's character trait was more the spy guy of the group, being a pervert is not really a character trait like you're judging the others on. I don't see sense of direction at Zoro, courage for Usopp or panty jokes for Brook. Those are gimmicks and don't define his character.

As for his real trait, being James Bond and going off on his own adventures. He never lost that. Stepping into Bege's castle to save the crew is like a direct callback to him putting him in danger earlier in the series, like against Enel and Kuma. Did it again with the Vinsmokes. Shows leadership when Luffy isn't there. Has led G5 and the Curlyhats.

As for his power, we will see it when he gets tested this arc. If he is in the Monster Trio of the SH's he will need to show some feats at some point. What better moment to do that than at the end of the year of Sanji.

You should've saved this rant till after this arc, if it still would be relevant.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Zoro has been getting opponents that he can easily crush aka Hyouzou & Monet while Sanji has been getting the stronger people or pit in situational fights aka Vergo & Doffy. With Vergo, Sanji was winning until he decided to block Vergo's kick instead of dodging. Doffy called Sanji twice & used parasite, a move that could stop even Jozu, Because Sanji didn't get any Ws, people only focus on his shortcomings. This is called the L curse and its effected people like Law, Cracker, Doflamingo, Chinjao etc.. If any character shows any weakness or does anything that isn't badass, they are bound to be underrated for that's how shallow people can be. Its the same reason BM & Weevil gets underrated for design alone while Katakuri got elevated to sh!t because he looks badass. Nothing was left behind or changed. Just people upset that someone isn't winning 24/7.

-gets downplayed for getting his leg cracked by Vergo even though that was poor judgement
-gets downplayed for being put in parasite by Mingo even though he got called strong twice
-gets downplayed for being captured by Capone even though he tricked him & still elft willingly
-gets downplayed for not one shotting tired Luffy even though the damage he did poor shot was on par with Cracker
-gets downplayed for getting beat up by his brothers even through fighting back meant death for Zeff
-gets downplayed for crying even every SH cried including Zoro
-gets downplayed for wanting to save the Vinsmokes even though it was directly stated that he wasn't heartless
-gets downplayed for drooling over Pudding even though being weak for women is the core of his personality

Again, any sign of weakness or not being badass, you get downplayed.

 

[Punk Hazard]

mfw by feats Sanji and Zoro are on the same level

Mfw Sanji's and Zoro's rivalry/hatred is still there post-skip.

 

[Punk Hazard]

This is a post made by someone who doesn't read the manga.

I DONT CARE HOW STRONG ANY ONE IS FULL DISCLOSER THIS IS ABOUT CONCEPTS BEING CREATED AND NOT UTILIZED
My biggest complaint with sanji
Is the same complaint I had about sakura

Spoiler

paired up with the strongest people in the series, sees that they are the weakest of the three tries to keep up and just doesn't, no character resolve for this its just clearly that they failed and it is left unaddressed

when someone in a show says they don't want to be left behind or they want to grow stronger and they don't it makes me upset.
A character's strength has little to do with how I feel about them and likely will never but when sanji was introduced and I would be fine if the fire kicking cook always was just a strong member of the crew like brook franky or robin just don't lump him in with the two strongest characters we have in the main cast (Luffy and zoro) just to remove him from there constantly over and over.

Zoro's Pica feat and Sanji's Hell Memories feat are on par with each other.

Take for instance the super rookies only 2/3 of the "monster trio" is included as super rookies. People that have fought the main enemy of any arc (win or lose) 2/3's of the monster trio. People that got to train with ledgends over the two year skip 2/3's of the "monster trio" Why start a monster trio if you arent going to actually keep the concept going

Because the concept was never really that important. It hasn't been for almost 10 years. That's half the manga's run time. That's like asking why the ninja academy in Naruto stopped being important to the plot when Shippuden started. It's not Oda's fault fans latched onto something he might have never meant to be that important in the first place.

It boils my viewers blood when an author sets up a concept and then forgets it completely Why have consant color spreads and sub-plots and character interactions that make it seem like sanji and zoro will always be rivals when in actuality it seems like zoro is the better crew mate and the stronger fighter, when you could have never had them be rivals and they both would have still been great characters because they are both great characters.

None of this is true. No one on the Strawhat crew is a "better crewmate" than theo ther. And Zoro has always been portrayed as stronger than Sanji, but never to the point that he'd baby shake him, and that includes in the New World.

Oda just divided a fanbase (which isnt bad) for 2 decades (again kinda impressive) Then just gave up on that core concept in the crew dynamic.

Sanji not being zoro's opposite anymore is like Nami not being greedy anymore or robin not being dark.

On Sabaody, he laments that he doesn't care what happens to Zoro.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

They argue and threaten to kill each other.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

On Fishman Island, they get into it again.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

There's Punk Hazard.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And Dressrosa.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And on Zou, Zoro straight up suggested they leave Sanji to deal with Big Mom alone and die.

And another smaller complaint about sanji when we were introduced to the character we saw three equal aspects of him
1.) he hates when you waste food

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

But now the only thing the character has kept is his perverted ways, which would be fine but why waste 2 decades of character arc to drop 2/3's of what make him who he is.

Why waste so much time reading a manga just to understand absolutely nothing?

 

[ToshiZO]

Yea he's been a waste of space post timeskip unfortunately.

 

[Love Cook]

Yea he's been a waste of space post timeskip unfortunately.

Wow convincing arguments

 

[Punk Hazard]

Wow convincing arguments

He hasn't found enough solid posts to piggy back off.

 

[chopstickchakra]

.

I disagree about the Super Nova point. All the big news and moves we've heard about in the New World involve Super Nova; Luffy/Law take down Doffy, Luffy threatening to take a Yonkou's territory, BB becoming a younko, Urogue beats a Sweet Commander, Kid. and co challenged Kaidou, Luffy/Bege attempting to take down BM, Kid sinking BM's ships. The Super Nova are the catalyst for the change in the New World. The Shichibukai are kind of the irrelevant factor now and the Super Nova have a bit of a New World Shichibukai-like vibe.

 

[Tomato God]

Zoro has been getting opponents that he can easily crush aka Hyouzou & Monet while Sanji has been getting the stronger people or pit in situational fights aka Vergo & Doffy. With Vergo, Sanji was winning until he decided to block Vergo's kick instead of dodging. Doffy called Sanji twice & used parasite, a move that could stop even Jozu, Because Sanji didn't get any Ws, people only focus on his shortcomings. This is called the L curse and its effected people like Law, Cracker, Doflamingo, Chinjao etc.. If any character shows any weakness or does anything that isn't badass, they are bound to be underrated for that's how shallow people can be. Its the same reason BM & Weevil gets underrated for design alone while Katakuri got elevated to sh!t because he looks badass. Nothing was left behind or changed. Just people upset that someone isn't winning 24/7.

-gets downplayed for getting his leg cracked by Vergo even though that was poor judgement
-gets downplayed for being put in parasite by Mingo even though he got called strong twice
-gets downplayed for being captured by Capone even though he tricked him & still elft willingly
-gets downplayed for not one shotting tired Luffy even though the damage he did poor shot was on par with Cracker
-gets downplayed for getting beat up by his brothers even through fighting back meant death for Zeff
-gets downplayed for crying even every SH cried including Zoro
-gets downplayed for wanting to save the Vinsmokes even though it was directly stated that he wasn't heartless
-gets downplayed for drooling over Pudding even though being weak for women is the core of his personality

Again, any sign of weakness or not being badass, you get downplayed.

Again I have to say this sanji strength doesn't matter to me at all. The fact that he hasn't displayed any monsterious feats in a while makes me upset. There is a gap in the feats portrayed.

There is so much wrong with that analysis, the things you use to compare him with to other strawhats are badly picked.

Sanji easily disposed of Wadatsumi on FI btw, and didn't get a fight on Dressrosa. So what you're saying about him not winning in the NW is wrong and it distorts the stats since he was M.I.A for a year.

But Sanji's character trait was more the spy guy of the group, being a pervert is not really a character trait like you're judging the others on. I don't see sense of direction at Zoro, courage for Usopp or panty jokes for Brook. Those are gimmicks and don't define his character.

As for his real trait, being James Bond and going off on his own adventures. He never lost that. Stepping into Bege's castle to save the crew is like a direct callback to him putting him in danger earlier in the series, like against Enel and Kuma. Did it again with the Vinsmokes. Shows leadership when Luffy isn't there. Has led G5 and the Curlyhats.

As for his power, we will see it when he gets tested this arc. If he is in the Monster Trio of the SH's he will need to show some feats at some point. What better moment to do that than at the end of the year of Sanji.

You should've saved this rant till after this arc, if it still would be relevant.

The big difference for the Watasumi fight is that he wasn't alone. Every fight he has had alone he has lost (Not saying he is weak) I am upset because I feel as though he should be able to get more victory screen times. I know that zoro has lost a few fights so far too but he has also won a lot more

And its not a quip like how brook likes panties. It was a plot point on fishman Island. Zoro's sense of direction wasn't a sub plot and ussops cowardice iirc wasn't either.

Sanji litterally almost died because of him being perverted something unique amongst the character quirks in the strawhats.

mfw by feats Sanji and Zoro are on the same level

Mfw Sanji's and Zoro's rivalry/hatred is still there post-skip.

I just can't see it. Zoro' gets more moments to shine and I understand that sanji doesn't get the same ammount of time or hasn't so far but thats specifically what I am complaining about the portrayl of these characters.

This is a post made by someone who doesn't read the manga.



Zoro's Pica feat and Sanji's Hell Memories feat are on par with each other.


Because the concept was never really that important. It hasn't been for almost 10 years. That's half the manga's run time. That's like asking why the ninja academy in Naruto stopped being important to the plot when Shippuden started. It's not Oda's fault fans latched onto something he might have never meant to be that important in the first place.



None of this is true. No one on the Strawhat crew is a "better crewmate" than theo ther. And Zoro has always been portrayed as stronger than Sanji, but never to the point that he'd baby shake him, and that includes in the New World.



On Sabaody, he laments that he doesn't care what happens to Zoro.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

They argue and threaten to kill each other.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

On Fishman Island, they get into it again.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

There's Punk Hazard.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And Dressrosa.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And on Zou, Zoro straight up suggested they leave Sanji to deal with Big Mom alone and die.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Why waste so much time reading a manga just to understand absolutely nothing?

Maybe I am super bad at explainnig myself but most of this is very opinion based. This is how I FEEL about sanji and you are free to disagree in fact I am happy that you do.
And more over I actually love sanji as a character I JUST FEEL dissapointed by current portrayl and pacing.

 

[ToshiZO]

Wow convincing arguments

I'm tired of this topic, I already ended you guys many times on multiple arguments on this.

 

[Tomato God]

I'm tired of this topic, I already ended you guys many times on multiple arguments on this.

Well see I like sanji and infact I am a sanji fan. I just had an opinion I wanted to share it doesnt have to be an argument. Just a disscussion.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Again I have to say this sanji strength doesn't matter to me at all. The fact that he hasn't displayed any monsterious feats in a while makes me upset. There is a gap in the feats portrayed.

The big difference for the Watasumi fight is that he wasn't alone. Every fight he has had alone he has lost (Not saying he is weak) I am upset because I feel as though he should be able to get more victory screen times. I know that zoro has lost a few fights so far too but he has also won a lot more

And its not a quip like how brook likes panties. It was a plot point on fishman Island. Zoro's sense of direction wasn't a sub plot and ussops cowardice iirc wasn't either.

Sanji litterally almost died because of him being perverted something unique amongst the character quirks in the strawhats.

I just can't see it. Zoro' gets more moments to shine and I understand that sanji doesn't get the same ammount of time or hasn't so far but thats specifically what I am complaining about the portrayl of these characters.


Maybe I am super bad at explainnig myself but most of this is very opinion based. This is how I FEEL about sanji and you are free to disagree in fact I am happy that you do.
And more over I actually love sanji as a character I JUST FEEL dissapointed by current portrayl and pacing.

I understand that you FEEL this way. And I couldn't begin to give a damn about how you feel. You can feel however way you want, I'm arguing with the basis of your feelings. You say you FEEL this way about Sanji because these elements have been missing from the manga. So I show you the fact that elements are there. Why you feel how you feel is invalid.

You say you feel this way about Sanji because he's portrayed as weaker than Zoro. That's not the case. The opponents that Zoro have faced that are on the same level as the opponents Sanji has faced are Fujitora, Kuma, and the Fishman Pirates.

Zoro was fodderized by Fujiora(just like Sanji was against Doflamingo), they were even against Kuma, and they were even with the Fishman Pirates. We also know that Sanji beat up Yonji without using Diable Jambe(little extra for your "Sanji has no Ws" argument) Another basis of how you FEEL being invalid.

That perversion/nosebleed argument about how it's a subplot is probably one of the stupidest ones I've ever seen on this forum. The fact that Sanji's nosebleeds and perversion HAS served the plot in some way is exactly why they're fine, despite being so annoying. They actually have a use as a trade off for how cliche and annoying it can be. Better to be bittersweet than bitter.

 

[Tomato God]

I understand that you FEEL this way. And I couldn't begin to give a damn about how you feel. You can feel however way you want, I'm arguing with the basis of your feelings. You say you FEEL this way about Sanji because these elements have been missing from the manga. So I show you the fact that elements are there. Why you feel how you feel is invalid.

Dude this doesn't havve to be an argument, you know that right? Like you're arguing over how some person you've never met feels about a comic book from japan. And you can't tell someone there opinion is wrong because its an opinion neither right nor wrong. I like cake. Are you going to argue that?

You say you feel this way about Sanji because he's portrayed as weaker than Zoro. That's not the case. The opponents that Zoro have faced that are on the same level as the opponents Sanji has faced are Fujitora, Kuma, and the Fishman Pirates.

yes and the current state of both there maximum strengths have never been explore but how sanji has been portrayed has been weaker.

Zoro was fodderized by Fujiora(just like Sanji was against Doflamingo), they were even against Kuma, and they were even with the Fishman Pirates. We also know that Sanji beat up Yonji without using Diable Jambe(little extra for your "Sanji has no Ws" argument) Another basis of how you FEEL being invalid.

He also beat up a bunch of workers and un-named fishmen and for all we know yonji could be the strength of a turtle or a yonko or anything inbetween. But against an on screen 1v1 fight we have watched we have yet to see sanji by himself win.

That perversion/nosebleed argument about how it's a subplot is probably one of the stupidest ones I've ever seen on this forum. The fact that Sanji's nosebleeds and perversion HAS served the plot in some way is exactly why they're fine, despite being so annoying. They actually have a use as a trade off for how cliche and annoying it can be. Better to be bittersweet than bitter.

Yes but remember when we first met sanji he could control it. He lost that. He lost the ability to control himself. HE lost his basic ammount of agency as a human being.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

It's only part of WCI that are terrible(And this is not a fault with only Sanji, odas writing in general is becoming more repetitive and cheap but this for another thread), he is still a good character. Being too much of a pervert is actually not a problem with layered character like Sanji whose pervertness is mostly highlighted for comical purposes.


As for hos strength, he's been fighting stronger characters than Zoro ever since the timeskip, of course he'd struggle more. Zoro isn't even far off from him right now if we ignore CoA feats

 

[dms_kakashi]

This is a post made by someone who doesn't read the manga.



Zoro's Pica feat and Sanji's Hell Memories feat are on par with each other.


Because the concept was never really that important. It hasn't been for almost 10 years. That's half the manga's run time. That's like asking why the ninja academy in Naruto stopped being important to the plot when Shippuden started. It's not Oda's fault fans latched onto something he might have never meant to be that important in the first place.



None of this is true. No one on the Strawhat crew is a "better crewmate" than theo ther. And Zoro has always been portrayed as stronger than Sanji, but never to the point that he'd baby shake him, and that includes in the New World.



On Sabaody, he laments that he doesn't care what happens to Zoro.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

They argue and threaten to kill each other.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

On Fishman Island, they get into it again.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

There's Punk Hazard.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And Dressrosa.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And on Zou, Zoro straight up suggested they leave Sanji to deal with Big Mom alone and die.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Why waste so much time reading a manga just to understand absolutely nothing?

You forgot to add the panel in zou where Zoro commented that he is worth 2000 men. Clear sign of rivalry.

 

[LBeezy]

I understand that you FEEL this way. And I couldn't begin to give a damn about how you feel. You can feel however way you want, I'm arguing with the basis of your feelings. You say you FEEL this way about Sanji because these elements have been missing from the manga. So I show you the fact that elements are there. Why you feel how you feel is invalid.

You say you feel this way about Sanji because he's portrayed as weaker than Zoro. That's not the case. The opponents that Zoro have faced that are on the same level as the opponents Sanji has faced are Fujitora, Kuma, and the Fishman Pirates.

Zoro was fodderized by Fujiora(just like Sanji was against Doflamingo), they were even against Kuma, and they were even with the Fishman Pirates. We also know that Sanji beat up Yonji without using Diable Jambe(little extra for your "Sanji has no Ws" argument) Another basis of how you FEEL being invalid.

That perversion/nosebleed argument about how it's a subplot is probably one of the stupidest ones I've ever seen on this forum. The fact that Sanji's nosebleeds and perversion HAS served the plot in some way is exactly why they're fine, despite being so annoying. They actually have a use as a trade off for how cliche and annoying it can be. Better to be bittersweet than bitter.

@bold

Why waste so much time reading a manga just to understand absolutely nothing?