Muu vs Deidara, Sasori, Kakuzu, and Hidan

[Rιver]

I think Muu is out of Deidaras league.

 

[Beans2]

Has the ability to get through invisibility by replacing himself with Clay Clones while hiding inside his bird and has the ability to intercept Jinton's charge up time. Not gonna expand now unless someone tries debating it, but...

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^ We posted some argumentations here.

I skimmed that thread and most of the argumentation seemed to revolve around Deidara hiding in his bird and feinting out Muu with a nendo bunshin when he goes in for the kill. However that doesn't account for the possibility of Muu creeping up on him and using a short range jinton blitz (the type used on Sasuke at the kage summit) which requires little preparation time and is very fast seeing how Sasuke could not avoid. Muu can destroy the whole bird that way, and if the real Deidara seperates from his bird Muu will sense his presence and understand he's been feinted. Or you know, invisible Muu can sneak up on the bird and touch it once using the Weighted-rock technique and make it very heavy, causing the bird to plummet to the ground which gives Muu the opening to one sot it with Jinton.

Later when I have time I'll put up an argument for Muu beating these four boys.

 

[Haizaki]

Has the ability to get through invisibility by replacing himself with Clay Clones while hiding inside his bird and has the ability to intercept Jinton's charge up time. Not gonna expand now unless someone tries debating it, but...

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^ We posted some argumentations here.

You see the thing with this is the fact that Mu can go invisible and at the same time use the added weight technique on Deidara's bird causing it to fall down. Once this happens, Deidara can't in any way intercept Jinton considering the distance from the ground to Mu...He has no effective or rather fast attack that would make it in time to intercept Mu at all.

Then there's the fact that Sensing=/= Sharingan...Which means Mu can sense more than 2 Deidaras if it comes to that. Even if he can't differentiate between them to know the real one, he'll know to have his guard up.

 

[Worm]

However that doesn't account for the possibility of Muu creeping up on him and using a short range jinton blitz (the type used on Sasuke at the kage summit) which requires little preparation time and is very fast seeing how Sasuke could not avoid. Muu can destroy the whole bird that way, and if the real Deidara seperates from his bird Muu will sense his presence and understand he's been feinted.

This doesn't seem that particulary extremely fast to me. [

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] Sasuke seemed to have a pretty decent time range to put up a counter. Especially seeing as how he wasn't panicking. [

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] He probably assumed he could attempt at putting up Susano'o ribcage last second and tank the attack without knowing what it is. Not to mention Obito could teleport next to him, grab him, teleport him into his Kamui dimension and then follow up by teleporting himself. I know Obito is fast, but that's still quite a bit of action to get away from something that is ''seemingly'' extremely fast. In Deidara's case, as soon as Muu tries that and goes visible, Deidara sends a bomb his way like

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.

Kinda risky. Especially if this ''blitz'' has limitations to short-range like that given how in other scenarios in which he used Jinton, he took quite a bit of a time span to charge it up.

Or you know, invisible Muu can sneak up on the bird and touch it once using the Weighted-rock technique and make it very heavy, causing the bird to plummet to the ground which gives Muu the opening to one sot it with Jinton.

He'd still have to go visible and then get at Deidara at which point he could counter by creating another bird or like shown above, throwing a bomb his way, thus killing him.

 

[Worm]

You see the thing with this is the fact that Mu can go invisible and at the same time use the added weight technique on Deidara's bird causing it to fall down. Once this happens, Deidara can't in any way intercept Jinton considering the distance from the ground to Mu...He has no effective or rather fast attack that would make it in time to intercept Mu at all.

Then there's the fact that Sensing=/= Sharingan...Which means Mu can sense more than 2 Deidaras if it comes to that. Even if he can't differentiate between them to know the real one, he'll know to have his guard up.

Muu can knead chakra for both invisibility and weight-rock technique at the same time? He's been on the ground every time he used invisibility. Only thing that implies otherwise is

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, IIRC. But that brings us to the old argumentation whether Muu was jumping or not given the position of his legs, the stone pillars behind Ohnoki and how he immediately goes visible to fly afterwards even though he was using his invisibility to fight prior to that despite Gaara already being on the field. I don't know whether the new Databook says anything though.

You can't really sense him if he's hiding in another lump full of chakra, i.e. the bird, now can you? Kinda like the Sharingan was unable to see his Chakra signature inside the bird.

 

[ARGUS]

whats with the deidara wank going on these days, first people say he solos the sannin, then Muu,
Lol Muu shits on him,

 

[Unorthodox]

Disciple kifflom I see you baby

 

[Haizaki]

Muu can knead chakra for both invisibility and weight-rock technique at the same time? He's been on the ground every time he used invisibility. Only thing that implies otherwise is

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, IIRC. But that brings us to the old argumentation whether Muu was jumping or not given the position of his legs, the stone pillars behind Ohnoki and how he immediately goes visible to fly afterwards even though he was using his invisibility to fight prior to that despite Gaara already being on the field. I don't know whether the new Databook says anything though.

No there are things you ignored

- Mu's only needs to weight himself once while using his flight. It doesn't require constant chakra..He only needs to take flight and then go invisible. This is a perfect example

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The Jutsu is used on Akatsuchi once and he's still able to employ other techniques while the Jutsu is active which means the use chakra isn't active at the same time 1.

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2. (Bottom Panel)

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I'm only stating Mu can go invisible when he's already taken flight...I'm not saying he can go invisible and then use it since I don't have proof of that. However when Mu uses the weighted technique, he can actively use chakra(E.g invisibility and Jinton) because the weighted technique doesn't actively use chakra except for the moment it's being casted.

So no when Mu lights himself to take flight, he can then go invisible which means he cannot be seen at all. How can one conclude he was jumping though? He's clearly seen coming visible in that scan

You can't really sense him if he's hiding in another lump full of chakra, i.e. the bird, now can you? Kinda like the Sharingan was unable to see his Chakra signature inside the bird.

I'll tell you why I disagree with this point...Zabuza for example uses the Hidden Mist. The Sharingan can't see due to the fact that the Mist is too thick and that Mist contains a massive amount of the users chakra making it hard to find the user himself. However, sensors can (although it's not easy and quick, they can still sense to find the closer they are). This is shown here

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Which is why I said the Sharingan's failure shouldn't mean the same for Sensing.

Another strategy is the fact that Mu can use his fission clone technique for safety..Which means a clone can go ahead to use the added weight technique on Deidara or even the bird itself. If the real Deidara himself shows up to attack that Mu by holding his legs or something, He can easily pass on the Added weight technique to the real Deidara leaving him finished.

 

[Worm]

No there are things you ignored

- Mu's only needs to weight himself once while using his flight. It doesn't require constant chakra..He only needs to take flight and then go invisible. This is a perfect example

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The Jutsu is used on Akatsuchi once and he's still able to employ other techniques while the Jutsu is active which means the use chakra isn't active at the same time 1.

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2. (Bottom Panel)

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I'm only stating Mu can go invisible when he's already taken flight...I'm not saying he can go invisible and then use it since I don't have proof of that. However when Mu uses the weighted technique, he can actively use chakra(E.g invisibility and Jinton) because the weighted technique doesn't actively use chakra except for the moment it's being casted.

So no when Mu lights himself to take flight, he can then go invisible which means he cannot be seen at all. How can one conclude he was jumping though? He's clearly seen coming visible in that scan

Thought you were saying that Muu could essentially go invisible THEN charge up the weighted rock technique. I agree with the vice versa, but not Muu coming to Deidara while invisible and then charging up the weighted rock technique to get to him.

I'll tell you why I disagree with this point...Zabuza for example uses the Hidden Mist. The Sharingan can't see due to the fact that the Mist is too thick and that Mist contains a massive amount of the users chakra making it hard to find the user himself. However, sensors can (although it's not easy and quick, they can still sense to find the closer they are). This is shown here

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Which is why I said the Sharingan's failure shouldn't mean the same for Sensing.

Fair point, but I have two more problems with it. To begin with, how exactly can't Sharingan see the target in the mist? At long range, yeah, he can't. It cloudes their viewpoint too much, but the closer they got to the target, the Sharingan seems to be pretty capable of pinpointing the target in the mist. [

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][

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] Either that or the mist wasn't really thick around Zabuza's location given how Kakashi wasn't the only one who could see him and keep up with his movements. That make sensing him particulary easy then, no? Given how he'd easily stand out as a chakra signature inside the mist, given how it isn't really heavy.

Deidara, on the other hand, could sit inside of his bird and constantly keep the same Chakra level cap as the bird, i.e. C1 until needed otherwise. He'd more or less hide in a big lump of chakra while keeping the same level of chakra as that chakra lump. I'd say that would make the guy pretty hard to see or sense given how Sharingan couldn't see his chakra signature even at close range. Deidara's bombs can have a pretty heavy amount of chakra pumped into them. [

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] Even to the point that the Byakugan failed to notice Deidara hiding nearby twice - the second time was when he replaced himself with a suicidal clone and went underground without Neji even noticing him entering it and couldn't see him traveling underground. It's likely the sensor will be focused on the lump of chakra that is the bomb and not even notice Deidara inside it just like the Byakugan and Sharingan could not.

Of course, depending how Deidara plays this out, the guy could easily just hide his real body underground, given he'd be wary of an invisible enemy and would be aware of how powerful Jinton is. If he attempts that, he could even put up a C4 field around his clone, which would kill Muu, undoubtedly.

Another strategy is the fact that Mu can use his fission clone technique for safety..Which means a clone can go ahead to use the added weight technique on Deidara or even the bird itself. If the real Deidara himself shows up to attack that Mu by holding his legs or something, He can easily pass on the Added weight technique to the real Deidara leaving him finished.

A fission clone would be pretty counter-productive, no? I mean, sure, he's gonna extend his life, but he wouldn't be capable of using Jinton anymore, would he? As for the weighted rock technique, like I said before, he'd have to go visible after coming close to Deidara at which point Deidara could send a bomb his way, forcing him to either go back or killing him just like he separated himself from Sasuke when the latter tried cutting him down.

 

[Lariatoo]

whats with the deidara wank going on these days, first people say he solos the sannin, then Muu,
Lol Muu shits on him,

I I'm honestly baffled by this. That's with the suddenly Deidara hype? XD It feels like when the manga was still going and a character got a power up or a new feat and everyone was blowing out of porpotion...

 

[Conspirator.]

The Akatsuki win.

 

[Haizaki]

Thought you were saying that Muu could essentially go invisible THEN charge up the weighted rock technique. I agree with the vice versa, but not Muu coming to Deidara while invisible and then charging up the weighted rock technique to get to him.

Alright.

Fair point, but I have two more problems with it. To begin with, how exactly can't Sharingan see the target in the mist? At long range, yeah, he can't. It cloudes their viewpoint too much, but the closer they got to the target, the Sharingan seems to be pretty capable of pinpointing the target in the mist. [

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][

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] Either that or the mist wasn't really thick around Zabuza's location given how Kakashi wasn't the only one who could see him and keep up with his movements. That make sensing him particulary easy then, no? Given how he'd easily stand out as a chakra signature inside the mist, given how it isn't really heavy.

No..The thing was Kakashi was actually sensing Zabuza which made him notice him. Not the Sharingan seeing him:

Then afterwards, this was said to Yamanaka :

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No doubt about it when you think of the fact that he had to sense first and know when exactly to undo the Mind transfer since he was in Kakashi's body. He even says "Mind transfer release to himself' Without being told a thing

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Ensui job again was to use this use the Shadow Mimic when Kakashi gets close which shows Santa Yamanaka was the one initially controlling Kakashi since Kakashi said as soon as you find him, release the technique and send me back to my body (Read the Page I previously showed)

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Then you'll see Ensui was then told to combine the Shadow Mimic with the Shadow Stitch and to raise then binding of the Shadow Mimic which even shows that Kakashi was moving freely under Santa's control.

Santa had to detect him first via Kakashi's body. Not Kakashi having to see close with his Sharingan..That Mist wasn't as thick as well.

Deidara, on the other hand, could sit inside of his bird and constantly keep the same Chakra level cap as the bird, i.e. C1 until needed otherwise. He'd more or less hide in a big lump of chakra while keeping the same level of chakra as that chakra lump. I'd say that would make the guy pretty hard to see or sense given how Sharingan couldn't see his chakra signature even at close range. Deidara's bombs can have a pretty heavy amount of chakra pumped into them. [

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] Even to the point that the Byakugan failed to notice Deidara hiding nearby twice - the second time was when he replaced himself with a suicidal clone and went underground without Neji even noticing him entering it and couldn't see him traveling underground. It's likely the sensor will be focused on the lump of chakra that is the bomb and not even notice Deidara inside it just like the Byakugan and Sharingan could not.

Above...I don't believe Mu won't be sensing him since even in the Mist with a huge body of Zabuza's chakra surrounding the whole environment, Sensors can still detect Zabuza's chakra in one body.


The Byakugan that failed to find Deidara could have been due to its range...Not when Neji already found him:

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despite him having active chakra against Naruto and the others previously.

Of course, depending how Deidara plays this out, the guy could easily just hide his real body underground, given he'd be wary of an invisible enemy and would be aware of how powerful Jinton is. If he attempts that, he could even put up a C4 field around his clone, which would kill Muu, undoubtedly.

But how would Mu not notice from the getgo? Deidara also has no intel and would only notice the invisibility when he takes flight since like I said, Mu would need lighten himself then take flight. Plus Deidara also has no intel on Mu being able to use Jinton as stated by the OP.

Fission clone counters the C4 and Deidara himself has to counter it by evading. Mu can also sense as well and Deidara coming out of his bird would leave him killed since the fission clone would be used to test his moveset while the real Mu stays invisible for a counter when needed.

A fission clone would be pretty counter-productive, no? I mean, sure, he's gonna extend his life, but he wouldn't be capable of using Jinton anymore, would he? As for the weighted rock technique, like I said before, he'd have to go visible after coming close to Deidara at which point Deidara could send a bomb his way, forcing him to either go back or killing him just like he separated himself from Sasuke when the latter tried cutting him down.

Deidara can't sense hence there's no way he'll notice Mu. Just like how Gaara had to warn Onoki about Mu but in this case Deidara has nobody to do so.

He notcied Sasuke because Obito told him so:

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. He won't notice Mu.

 

[ToshiZO]

Deidara has got to be the most overrated character on this forum. Portrayal alone suggested he's weaker than the likes of Sasori. Muu would give Deidara a new hole to play with his clay.

 

[RedRobin]

Deidara is hyped because of C4 which is a dangerous technique if you dont have dojustu or intel to use raiton if a character has it.

 

[Beans2]

This doesn't seem that particulary extremely fast to me. [

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] Sasuke seemed to have a pretty decent time range to put up a counter. Especially seeing as how he wasn't panicking. [

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] He probably assumed he could attempt at putting up Susano'o ribcage last second and tank the attack without knowing what it is. Not to mention Obito could teleport next to him, grab him, teleport him into his Kamui dimension and then follow up by teleporting himself. I know Obito is fast, but that's still quite a bit of action to get away from something that is ''seemingly'' extremely fast. In Deidara's case, as soon as Muu tries that and goes visible, Deidara sends a bomb his way like

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.

Kinda risky. Especially if this ''blitz'' has limitations to short-range like that given how in other scenarios in which he used Jinton, he took quite a bit of a time span to charge it up.



He'd still have to go visible and then get at Deidara at which point he could counter by creating another bird or like shown above, throwing a bomb his way, thus killing him.

Okay then Muu splits bodies then makes both of them go invisible before going in for the kill. One body gets feinted by the clay clone and explodes. Then Deidara, thinking he's won, receives a sword through his heart by the other Muu that's invisible. The feinter just got feinted.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Muu gets ruined.​