Muu vs Ay

Beans2

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Since when was the FRS shuriken the powerful part of the jutsu? Last I checked it couldn't bisect the Juubi clones.

I only mentioned this since you said FRS hit his eyes, but I realize now you were talking about its explosion. But when did the bold happen?

The energy of its explosion being dispersed does not mean anything whatsoever because its energy per area still has the capacity to vaporise the average person and has the capacity to affect the Raikage's body (cracking it). Energy per area is constant throughout the FRS. If his whole body can survive the amount of needles attacking in an area than his eye can take the same amount of needles by itself and survive. Seeing how his body was cracked even at the moment at which the sealing team reached him, meaning it was in worse shape prior to that..Manda can't close his eyes but they tanked C0 while his body was burnt to a crisp. Hachibi's eyes tank TBB . Obito's eye tanks explosion that fuks up his durable mask and face all over . Snakes body burned af but his eyes just fine . So yea, your argument doesn't make sense because eyes are't intended to be weak spots by Kishi at all. Refer to what I said to Ice if you want to still claim eyes are weak-spots.



quote me saying bold
quote me saying underlined
red is irrelevant when eyes have tanked every attack in the manga to date, Manda tanked c0 with his eyes and many other feats similar to this have occurred. So; 1. You either accept the fact that Kishi does not intend for eyes to be weak point. 2. Think of things literally as you are right now, and continue with the literal approach in which case eyes are the most durable body part in NV.

Don't even feel like responding to this. But you have to be out of your mind if you think Muu's sword is going to bounce of Ay's eyeballs when he stabs straight at them, that's just too ridiculous for me to even address.

Edit: If you want to say you "won" this debate because I didnt respond then by all means go ahead.
 

Lord Tywin

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Stabbing Ay through the eye balls would require Muu popping right in front of Ay, which is suicide
 

Apêx1

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I only mentioned this since you said FRS hit his eyes, but I realize now you were talking about its explosion. But when did the bold happen?

Got hit and flew backwards instead of being outright bisected.

Don't even feel like responding to this. But you have to be out of your mind if you think Muu's sword is going to bounce of Ay's eyeballs when he stabs straight at them, that's just too ridiculous for me to even address.

Edit: If you want to say you "won" this debate because I didnt respond then by all means go ahead.

I'm simply showing you that it was never Kishi's intention to make eyes a weak spot, so they aren't a weak spot. So something like this would never happen in the manga. That translates to Mu won't be doing what you are claiming, because we debate to replicate the most accurate simulation/scenario of what would happen in the manga. But yes, I definitely 'won' (I don't consider these things in a win or lose situation) this debate the moment I posted C0 not scratching Manda's eyes. If it hadn't happened, you'd be here telling me "you have to be out of your mind to think millions of celsius and a blast so powerful it sends shockwaves 100's of kilometers away couldn't even scratch Manda's open eyes."
 

Beans2

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Stabbing Ay through the eye balls would require Muu popping right in front of Ay, which is suicide

Muu doesn't have to go visible when he attacks with his swords though...
 

Lord Tywin

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Muu doesn't have to go visible when he attacks with his swords though...
Ay should be able to sense the air around the weapon. Most ninjas are trained for sneak attacks.
 

Beans2

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Ay should be able to sense the air around the weapon. Most ninjas are trained for sneak attacks.

Proof to support this claim?

He might be able to feel the air current of the sword's motion and counter before it hits him...if only he were expecting it. The situation is completely different if he's let down his guard thinking that Muu is dead. Just refer to how Asura Path blindsided three SM sensors all because they thought they had won, then let down their guard.
 

Lord Tywin

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Proof to support this claim?

He might be able to feel the air current of the sword's motion and counter before it hits him...if only he were expecting it. The situation is completely different if he's let down his guard thinking that Muu is dead. Just refer to how Asura Path blindsided three SM sensors all because they thought they had won, then let down their guard.
Bruh there has been instances with ninjas reacting to movements in the bushes, or enemy presence
 

NarutoX28

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Mind me asking you to post them?

Sasuke sniffing out Tobi is the one that comes to mind or Kabuto being able to perceive Yamato's Mokuton Clone that was following him during the Sasuke Retrieval Mission.
 

Apêx1

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Part 1 Child Kakashi could sense air currents and slight sounds [ ], Anko could sense Oro without vision , Itachi could land kunai's pin-point on clones attacking him in mid-air without looking [ ]. I'd like to think that a 47 year old Kage with as much experience as Ay has at the very least decent senses compared to a 9 year old like Kakashi. Can't outright prove it, but it seems extremely logical to say most top tiers have at the very least decent senses.
 

Lord Tywin

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Part 1 Child Kakashi could sense air currents and slight sounds [ ], Anko could sense Oro without vision , Itachi could land kunai's pin-point on clones attacking him in mid-air without looking [ ]. I'd like to think that a 47 year old Kage with as much experience as Ay has at the very least decent senses compared to a 9 year old like Kakashi. Can't outright prove it, but it seems extremely logical to say most top tiers have at the very least decent senses.
Or the fact that Ay has Intel on Muu, or that Muu needs to
be out of Ay's sight to split.
 

Unorthodox

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Beans got heated with his muu wank.
 

Beans2

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Sasuke sniffing out Tobi is the one that comes to mind or Kabuto being able to perceive Yamato's Mokuton Clone that was following him during the Sasuke Retrieval Mission.

I don't remember either of those things happening so could you just post scans so I can determine the specific reason they were detected? Most likely Kabuto heard their footsteps or sensed their chakra. Muu suppresses his chakra and he flies so neither of these would be a problem.

One instance is part 2 Nardo being alerted by rabbits in the bushes

Rustling noises in the bushes = sound. Muu doesn't have to make a sound to attack.

Part 1 Child Kakashi could sense air currents and slight sounds [ ], Anko could sense Oro without vision , Itachi could land kunai's pin-point on clones attacking him in mid-air without looking [ ]. I'd like to think that a 47 year old Kage with as much experience as Ay has at the very least decent senses compared to a 9 year old like Kakashi. Can't outright prove it, but it seems extremely logical to say most top tiers have at the very least decent senses.

Thanks for at least linking scans.

-Kakashi detected the Iwa nin because he heard his footstep. Read the bottom right panel where there's the "tap" sound.
. Matter of fact, this scan just shows how hard it is for Muu to be detected. Kakashi's skill at feeling the presence of air currents wasn't good enough to detect the Iwa nin, and that was in a situation when he was on maximum alert. Raikage on the other hand would completely let his guard down.

-Orochimaru wasn't trying to sneak up on her or even attempting to hide his presence. On the other hand Anko was actively seeking out Orochimaru and knew he was somewhere in the forest. Not the same sort of situation. Either she heard him emerging from the tree or sensed his chakra.

-Itachi could have heard the leaves rustling when Naruto's clones emerged from the bushes, plus it seems he had already spotted them out with his sharingan. Notice where his eyes are looking in the middle right panel.

There is a HUGE difference between sensing the presence of someone when you're aware an opponent is near, and sensing the presence of someone when you have no clue that there's actually an opponent on the battlefield, and no examples anyone has brought addresses this. Sage Mode Jiraiya, Ma, and Pa were despite all three of them being sensors, even though Ma has canonically sensed Pain [ ]. Even Onoki who had his guard up knowing Muu was lurking somewhere didn't realize Muu was right onto him until Gaara warned him [ ].

Then there's the fact that Muu pretty much negates any ordinary means of detection with his jutsu.

-One can't hear him since he can noiselessly glides through the air.
-One can't see him because he's invisible.
-He probably can't be smelled, considering an Iwa jonin was capable of and Muu was hyped for his ability to hide his presence. Not definitive proof, but take that into consideration at least.
-His chakra can't be sensed because he hides his chakra. You already know that even non sensors can sense chakra, and so-called "sensors" are just people who refine that ability to the maximum. One of the primary methods of seeking out ninjas is by feeling their chakra, and if the chakra source is large enough, or near enough to the person seeking them out, they can be detected. Muu bypasses this method of detection entirely.

Or the fact that Ay has Intel on Muu, or that Muu needs to
be out of Ay's sight to split.

Onoki had intel on Muu's fission but that didn't help him. Onoki's a lot smarter than Ay...and going behind a stone pillar and splitting means Ay doesn't see him do it.
 

Apêx1

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I don't remember either of those things happening so could you just post scans so I can determine the specific reason they were detected? Most likely Kabuto heard their footsteps or sensed their chakra. Muu suppresses his chakra and he flies so neither of these would be a problem.



Rustling noises in the bushes = sound. Muu doesn't have to make a sound to attack.



Thanks for at least linking scans.

-Kakashi detected the Iwa nin because he heard his footstep. Read the bottom right panel where there's the "tap" sound.
. Matter of fact, this scan just shows how hard it is for Muu to be detected. Kakashi's skill at feeling the presence of air currents wasn't good enough to detect the Iwa nin, and that was in a situation when he was on maximum alert. Raikage on the other hand would completely let his guard down.

-Orochimaru wasn't trying to sneak up on her or even attempting to hide his presence. On the other hand Anko was actively seeking out Orochimaru and knew he was somewhere in the forest. Not the same sort of situation. Either she heard him emerging from the tree or sensed his chakra.

-Itachi could have heard the leaves rustling when Naruto's clones emerged from the bushes, plus it seems he had already spotted them out with his sharingan. Notice where his eyes are looking in the middle right panel.

There is a HUGE difference between sensing the presence of someone when you're aware an opponent is near, and sensing the presence of someone when you have no clue that there's actually an opponent on the battlefield, and no examples anyone has brought addresses this. Sage Mode Jiraiya, Ma, and Pa were despite all three of them being sensors, even though Ma has canonically sensed Pain [ ]. Even Onoki who had his guard up knowing Muu was lurking somewhere didn't realize Muu was right onto him until Gaara warned him [ ].

Then there's the fact that Muu pretty much negates any ordinary means of detection with his jutsu.

-One can't hear him since he can noiselessly glides through the air.
-One can't see him because he's invisible.
-He probably can't be smelled, considering an Iwa jonin was capable of and Muu was hyped for his ability to hide his presence. Not definitive proof, but take that into consideration at least.
-His chakra can't be sensed because he hides his chakra. You already know that even non sensors can sense chakra, and so-called "sensors" are just people who refine that ability to the maximum. One of the primary methods of seeking out ninjas is by feeling their chakra, and if the chakra source is large enough, or near enough to the person seeking them out, they can be detected. Muu bypasses this method of detection entirely.



Onoki had intel on Muu's fission but that didn't help him. Onoki's a lot smarter than Ay...and going behind a stone pillar and splitting means Ay doesn't see him do it.

Hmm, you're probably right. Although for the Itachi one, he's looking forward towards Naruto. His eyes just look like he's looking to the left in that panel because you only see one, but he was definitely looking forward. Looking to his left wouldn't have done anything anyways since he'd still not even see a faint image of them as they are directly behind him. Hearing leaves should not allow him to spot their exact location in the air at all much less hit a kunai on the same exact part of both of the clones' bodies. But I'll assume that it's just Itachi's feat since I can't say Itachi doing it=any Kage doing it.
 

NarutoX28

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I don't remember either of those things happening so could you just post scans so I can determine the specific reason they were detected? Most likely Kabuto heard their footsteps or sensed their chakra. Muu suppresses his chakra and he flies so neither of these would be a problem.



 

Lord Tywin

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Doesn't change the fact that he has to be out of Ay's sight to split
 

Beans2

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Doesn't change the fact that he has to be out of Ay's sight to split

>Goes invisible
>Goes behind stone pillar (see location)
>Becomes visible
>Splits
>One body becomes invisible again.
 
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