Muu should be able to perform these 3 techniques Onoki uses

[Beans2]

Muu was the second Tsuchikage, Onoki's teacher, and portrayed as the strongest Tsuchikage. Before I begin let me explain why Muu is stronger than Onoki and is portrayed that way.

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Gaara and Onoki ganged up against Muu before taking out the 2nd Mizukage (Gengetsu) so they believe Muu to be the stronger shinobi between him and the Mizukage, despite the two of them battling each other and both dying.

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Muu understands that Onoki is no match for him alone, after battling him off panel and witnessing his current power level.

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The Raikage, Hokage, Tsuchikage, and Aoba all hyped him. His fame and power was known far and wide. Onoki implied that Shikaku's entire war strategy could be hindered by a single man.

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Kabuto handpicked Muu as an Edo to reanimate, and hyped him to have no presence or chakra. Only powerful shinobi with far-reaching fame get nicknames like "The Invisible Man". Examples are, The Yellow Flash, Hanzo of the Salamander, The God of Shinobi, Legendary Sannin, The Professor, Shisui the Teleported, etc. I suppose Onoki also has a nickname ("Fence sitter") but that's not in regards to his actual combat ability, i believe it's referring to his indecisive wartime policies where he would "sit on the fence" about an issue

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Muu tricked Onoki and outsmarted him.

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Mu was Onoki's sensei and the one who taught Onoki how to use jinton, and very likely other techniques as well.

Since it's clear that Muu is the stronger, both portrayed as the stronger as such and has better feats, let me explain why he can use these three of Onoki's techniques/abilities.

1. Doton: Kajūgan no Jutsu (

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)
2. Doton Bunshins (

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)
3. Large-scale Swinging Jinton (

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)

Doton: Kajūgan no Jutsu

Spoiler

This technique is the exact opposite of the Doton: Keijūgan no Jutsu (

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). Mu is 100% confirmed to be able to use Keijūgan no Jutsu by the way- Fourth Databook says it is the technique that Onoki and Muu use to fly, and Muu has shown in the manga that he can fly.

Spoiler

Earth Release: Light-Weight Rock Technique (土遁・軽重岩の術, Doton: Keijūgan no Jutsu)

Heading: To dance in the sky released from gravity's constraints!

Classification: Ninjutsu
Rank: B-Rank
Class: Offensive, Supplementary
Range: Short-Range
User(s): Ōnoki

The technique reduces the target's gravity. It's natural application is to enhance, naturally it's used to make the weight of the things one carries lighten, ones personal weight can also be reduced, making ones movements fast and agile. The atmosphere as well as the human body is made light, in-order to soar through the sky. On occasion, It is popular for a person to control the jutsu's flight in the sky with specific stances (heavy paraphrased, but you get it, many users control their flight with their stance), with practice one can freely fly about in the sky.

→ Touching the target in an instant their gravity is taken away. The technique user regulates how much (gravity) is snatched away.

↓ The sensation of soaring through the sky is extraordinarily pleasant. . . can't make out the rest due to unknown Katakana word.

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Moving on: why can Muu use the opposite technique that makes the target heavy instead? Firstly, the two techniques were probably simultaneously created at the same time by the same inventor, and take the same anount of effort to master, so it wouldn't make sense if Mu had one and not the other. Second, there's the obvious fact that Muu is the stronger of the two Tsuchikages as well as Onoki's teacher, and probably the one who taught him those techniques.

Doton Bunshins

Spoiler

Rock clones seem to be a technique basic to most Iwagakure jonin. It would not make sense for the strongest Tsuchikage to be incapable of using rock bunshins when even jonin like Akatsuchi have shown that they can make rock clones (

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). Onoki was shown to make rock clones, and with Muu as the superior shinobi as well as Onoki's teacher, it would be illogical for him not to have it.

What seals the nail in the coffin is that Mu is able to split himself, which is a highly complex technique, much more advanced than cloning.

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With clones, there are fakes and there is the original, but with fission both of Mu's bodies are the real Muu and retain the same sense of "self". That's a really high level technique. It makes no sense for Muu to be able to literally split himself in half, but not make basic rock clones.

Large-scale Swinging jinton

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Only Onoki has shown to be able to use this so why does Muu get this feat too? There's a few reasons.

1 - Muu's cylinder jinton matched Onoki's cone jinton, and Onoki comments on the power of Muu's jinton. They fought each other off panel and Mu matched Onoki's jinton, every time. It only makes sense that Mu can use a large-scale jinton like Onoki did, at old age, in poor battle conditions, and low on chakra.

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2 - Muu states that numbers do not matter before a jinton user like him. This can only imply one thing: that he can use large-scale jinton to defeat many opponents at once, hence why numbers do not matter.

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3 - It's fact that Muu was the one who taught Onoki the secrets of jinton, and is an all around stronger Tsuchikage than Onoki by portrayal and feats.

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In conclusion, Muu should be able to use these three techniques/feats that Onoki showed. Not only does it make sense that Muu can use them, but it wouldn't make sense if he couldn't. Since Muu is not a plot-central character and only was part of the manga briefly, he doesn't have many feats but through logical reasoning and deduction we can infer that he can indeed use weighted-rock technique, make rock clones, and cast large-scale jinton.

 

[Lightbringer]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim otherwise lol

 

[Gagster]

Kabuto handpicked Muu as an Edo to reanimate, and hyped him to have no presence or chakra. Only powerful shinobi with far-reaching fame get nicknames like "The Invisible Man". Examples are, The Yellow Flash, Hanzo of the Salamander, The God of Shinobi, Legendary Sannin, The Professor, etc.

Shisui, and the demon brothers say No.

 

[Beans2]

Shisui, and the demon brothers say No.

Shisui was actually a very powerful shinobi and demon brothers, Lol, I guess that is an exception then but they were only ever referred to that by Gato if i rememeber correctly, which doesn't hold much merit since Gato's not even a ninja.

 

[Gagster]

Shisui was actually a very powerful shinobi and demon brothers, Lol, I guess that is an exception then but they were only ever referred to that by Gato if i rememeber correctly, which doesn't hold much merit since Gato's not even a ninja.

Sure, ok. I'll believe that when I believe Kakashi's father was as strong as a sannin.

 

[Joon]

Only speculation being Muu is Oonoki's teacher and he could have taught him those techniques. However, it is unknown if Oonoki learn those techniques from Muu as it was only shown by Oonoki in the manga.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

Muu Hype failed, Kishi shoved down to that character, but nice thread and yeah I agree with mostly what you said

 

[Demonic.]

Thread supported with manga facts. Only the haters will deny. Especially Rock Bunshin.

 

[Conspirator.]

I have to agree. Good thread.

 

[Xāvî1]

Yes he can!

 

[super yang]

I personally think he can do everything onoki & kitsuchi does except rock clones & Golems

golems seems progressive to me & likens as onokis' signature jutsu

overt rock clone spam seems to be onoki answer to Muus' signature: the invisible body split.

 

[DMT]

Mū was hyped to be the strongest Edo kage revived

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OT : I remember a member here was saying that mu can only use cylindrical jinton , and he can't form cube jinton , lol

 

[Izou Xaxa]

I think he can use those techniques

 

[Draphsin]

I mean, you have support, but not confirmation. For example w/ the bunshins, according to that same logic hashirama should be able to use kage bunshins, same w/ tsunade.

Yeah I agree, he probably has them, but if we're talking about a VS match then he can't use them w/o 100% confirmation or feats, something like a direct

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he could use them would be enough. Otherwise I can use this logic to say that plenty of characters can use moves they've never shown us.

& Btw, you did prove that he can use the large scale jinton, he matched onoki's jinton & was constantly being portrayed to have jinton on the same level as him.

 

[super yang]

I mean, you have support, but not confirmation. For example w/ the bunshins, according to that same logic hashirama should be able to use kage bunshins, same w/ tsunade.

Hashirama can use the kagebunshin. of course he uses the original version from his mokuton, which inspired Tobirama to create the former.

..not sure how the logic also applies to Tsunade. she has no Kage connection at all

OT also, why do people even contest that Muu can ''swing'' his jin'ton...as if its some different, ''level 2'' jutsu?
I don't get it...

 

[Draphsin]

Hashirama can use the kagebunshin. of course he uses the original version from his mokuton, which inspired Tobirama to create the former.

This is speculation, how do we know that hashi ever found the time to learn such a jutsu when he has his mokuton clones instead?

..not sure how the logic also applies to Tsunade. she has no Kage connection at all

Tobirama invented the kage bunshin, he taught hiruzen who became the third hokage & he's also a proficient clone user [shuriken kage bunshins].

In the academy you need to know the "bunshin" jutsu in order to graduate, & tsunade, a legendary sannin was trained by hiruzen himself. Then there's the fact that every single hokage can use clones, but tsunade is the only one who hasn't shown it & even people like pt. 1 kakashi have the ability.

According to this same logic that says muu can use doton bunshins, I can say that tsunade has kage bunshins even though she hasn't shown us anything of the sort. How do we know that muu just can't use doton properly? Maybe it's harder for him than an average shinobi, someone like gai can barely use any ninjutsu himself so it's not an impossible scenario. W/o confirmation, it shouldn't be used in a VS thread.

 

[super yang]

This is speculation, how do we know that hashi ever found the time to learn such a jutsu when he has his mokuton clones instead?

no, thats what I mean, he can alreadyuse the mokuton version. it came before shadow clone

Tobirama invented the kage bunshin, he taught hiruzen who became the third hokage & he's also a proficient clone user [shuriken kage bunshins].

In the academy you need to know the "bunshin" jutsu in order to graduate, & tsunade, a legendary sannin was trained by hiruzen himself. Then there's the fact that every single hokage can use clones, but tsunade is the only one who hasn't shown it & even people like pt. 1 kakashi have the ability.

jiraiya was the original choice there & has said jutsu.

UOTE]According to this same logic that says muu can use doton bunshins, I can say that tsunade has kage bunshins even though she hasn't shown us anything of the sort. How do we know that muu just can't use doton properly? Maybe it's harder for him than an average shinobi, someone like gai can barely use any ninjutsu himself so it's not an impossible scenario. W/o confirmation, it shouldn't be used in a VS thread.

thats not same logic.
muu taught onoki, onoki has said jutsu
Tsunade taught shizune, shizune does not have said jutsu

 

[Draphsin]

no, thats what I mean, he can alreadyuse the mokuton version. it came before shadow clone

Doesn't change the fact that the same logic which gives muu doton bunshins also gives hashi kage bunshins.

jiraiya was the original choice there & has said jutsu.

I don't see how this is relevant, jiraiya is in the same boat as tsunade.

thats not same logic.

Yes it is.

muu taught onoki, onoki has said jutsu
Tsunade taught shizune, shizune does not have said jutsu

Again, by the logic that gives muu doton bunshins, shizune should have access to most of tsunade's jutsus. It's all the same logic, you can't assume someone has a certain jutsu just because there are strong implications that point in that direction. It's the last time I'm gonna say it, you need 100% confirmation.

 

[super yang]

Doesn't change the fact that the same logic which gives muu doton bunshins also gives hashi kage bunshins.



I don't see how this is relevant, jiraiya is in the same boat as tsunade.



Yes it is.



Again, by the logic that gives muu doton bunshins, shizune should have access to most of tsunade's jutsus. It's all the same logic, you can't assume someone has a certain jutsu just because there are strong implications that point in that direction. It's the last time I'm gonna say it, you need 100% confirmation.

no its not the same - the logic doesn't give the student the teachers jutsu, its vice versa.
this doesn't effect hashirama as he has the original bunshinjutsu

so hiruzen would get mystic palm, 4 example

jiraiya already has clones.

and I don't subscribe to this logic, i'm just stating properly, what the actual logic is

 

[veggetta13]

Mū was hyped to be the strongest Edo kage revived

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OT : I remember a member here was saying that mu can only use cylindrical jinton , and he can't form cube jinton , lol

If you think that by picking a larger image the argument becomes more convincing, the answer is :- No!!!!!!!!!