MS Sasuke vs. Rock Lee and Kiba

[Unorthodox]

putting sasuke in an unbalanced match asusall he both scenarios

touken booty ass tryna argue with everything over lee & gai now i hate bangwangers also 6 gates aint shit bearly beat 15% of a kisame clone

 

[KidGamer65]

Lol, Sasuke only went blind because he upped his Susanoo to the max level and his eyes couldn't take it. Something that isn't required nor will he attempt it against these two. They don't stand a chance in either scenario; especially not the second one.

 

[ARGUS]

Sasuke loses scenario 1,, if lee manages to go gates before sasuke shoots off susanoo arrows or amaterasu,,,,
lee in gates would be a big challenge for the sasuke who was completely exhausted and near blind,,,,

as for scenario 2: literally one amaterasu is enough for kiba,,, sasuke can then beat lee through enton coated susanoo

 

[adeshina365]

Sasuke wins both scenarios.

 

[Touken]

Gliding changes nothing in Gai's speed. He has already shown to run perfectly fast in the air [

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]

Gai is as well never faster than the orbs. He had to get saved by Minato here from them [

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] [

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]

What you don't understand is that it's Gai's punches who are incredibly fast, not particularly his movement speed

Gliding in the air =/= running in the air. This is him running [

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]. This is him gliding [

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][

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][

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][

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]. His stance doesn't even change once, meaning he was most definitely gliding and not running. He didn't have to get saved by anything, he heard Minato's encouragement and carried on going.

lol, everything is boosted equally in Gates, including striking speed, movement speed and reaction speed. Last few chapters have definitely established that.

 

[Bogard]

Gliding in the air =/= running in the air. This is him running [

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]. This is him gliding [

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][

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][

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][

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]. His stance doesn't even change once, meaning he was most definitely gliding and not running. He didn't have to get saved by anything, he heard Minato's encouragement and carried on going.

lol, everything is boosted equally in Gates, including striking speed, movement speed and reaction speed. Last few chapters have definitely established that.

How do you think Gai runs in the air? It has clearly been explained in latest chapter. He kicks the air. [

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] Without kicking the air, he can't run in the air but would be falling instead, so the picture you show him running in the air, he was actually kicking the air really fast to run circles around Madara, trying to find an opening and use his fast and devastating powerful punches.

So no, gates doesn't boost everything equally like you say. His running speed is nowhere near his punching speed just like Jubidara's running speed is nowhere near his orbs speed [

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]. The orbs are his fastest attacks just like the strikes in 8gates are Gai's fastest attacks

The Minato's encouragement had nothing to do with the orbs since it actually happened when Gai was in an advantageous position, kicking Madara one after another, long before Madara even thought about counter-attacking. It was just to show him they are behind him for making such an importance decision to sacrifice himself for their sake [

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And since when being encouraged in continuing your actions means you would act suicidal? You can even notice that between the time it took the orbs to reach 8gated Gai, the dude barely moved an inch despite being in a fast running movement in Madara's direction [

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].

So once again, the orbs are faster than 8gated Gai's movements, just like Kamui is faster than 8gated Gai's movements. Stop dreaming

 

[slimreaper]

How do you think Gai runs in the air? It has clearly been explained in latest chapter. He kicks the air. [

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] Without kicking the air, he can't run in the air but would be falling instead, so the picture you show him running in the air, he was actually kicking the air really fast to run circles around Madara, trying to find an opening and use his fast and devastating powerful punches.

So no, gates doesn't boost everything equally like you say. His running speed is nowhere near his punching speed just like Jubidara's running speed is nowhere near his orbs speed [

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]. The orbs are his fastest attacks just like the strikes in 8gates are Gai's fastest attacks

The Minato's encouragement had nothing to do with the orbs since it actually happened when Gai was in an advantageous position, kicking Madara one after another, long before Madara even thought about counter-attacking. It was just to show him they are behind him for making such an importance decision to sacrifice himself for their sake [

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]

And since when being encouraged in continuing your actions means you would act suicidal? You can even notice that between the time it took the orbs to reach 8gated Gai, the dude barely moved an inch despite being in a fast running movement in Madara's direction [

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].

So once again, the orbs are faster than 8gated Gai's movements, just like Kamui is faster than 8gated Gai's movements. Stop dreaming

it can be argued that limbo is

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Scenario 1, Rock Lee and Kiba win for sure. Scenario 2 is debatable considering Lee has the 6th gate. Kiba would be destroyed in scenario 2 though. I'd lean towards Sasuke though.

 

[Touken]

How do you think Gai runs in the air? It has clearly been explained in latest chapter. He kicks the air. [

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] Without kicking the air, he can't run in the air but would be falling instead, so the picture you show him running in the air, he was actually kicking the air really fast to run circles around Madara, trying to find an opening and use his fast and devastating powerful punches.

No. He wouldn't instantly start falling as soon as he stops kicking the air, do you know what gliding is? The scan I showed was Gai continuously kicking the air to run, whereas with his 5th Step of Evening Elephant he glided towards Madara by kicking the air once. If he was at full speed there we would have seen just a blur and air currents. Do we see that? No. I really don't know how you came to the conclusion that he was at full speed when he was about to use his Final Step.

So no, gates doesn't boost everything equally like you say. His running speed is nowhere near his punching speed just like Jubidara's running speed is nowhere near his orbs speed [

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]. The orbs are his fastest attacks just like the strikes in 8gates are Gai's fastest attacks

lmao, did you not see how he was causing air currents through running alone? His running speed is just as fast or probably faster than his punching speed, as movement speed is naturally faster than striking speed. We haven't even seen JM Madara run but his orbs are nowhere near as fast as Juubito's movement speed and JM Madara should definitely be faster than Juubito.

The Minato's encouragement had nothing to do with the orbs since it actually happened when Gai was in an advantageous position, kicking Madara one after another, long before Madara even thought about counter-attacking. It was just to show him they are behind him for making such an importance decision to sacrifice himself for their sake [

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]

Good lord, do you not see how Minato clearly says "We will support Gai"? Gai could have easily dodged his orbs. To think he couldn't doesn't make sense considering a few pages back we see his full speed.

And since when being encouraged in continuing your actions means you would act suicidal? You can even notice that between the time it took the orbs to reach 8gated Gai, the dude barely moved an inch despite being in a fast running movement in Madara's direction [

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].

He was not "in a fast running movement". How on earth could you possibly believe he was running fast there when you've literally just seen his full speed in that same chapter, and it's far, far superior to the speed he displayed when using his 5th Step?

So once again, the orbs are faster than 8gated Gai's movements, just like Kamui is faster than 8gated Gai's movements. Stop dreaming

I'm not even sure how to respond to this.

 

[warlee]

None of them is dodging amaterasu.

 

[Bogard]

No. He wouldn't instantly start falling as soon as he stops kicking the air, do you know what gliding is? The scan I showed was Gai continuously kicking the air to run, whereas with his 5th Step of Evening Elephant he glided towards Madara by kicking the air once. If he was at full speed there we would have seen just a blur and air currents. Do we see that? No. I really don't know how you came to the conclusion that he was at full speed when he was about to use his Final Step.

lmao, did you not see how he was causing air currents through running alone? His running speed is just as fast or probably faster than his punching speed, as movement speed is naturally faster than striking speed. We haven't even seen JM Madara run but his orbs are nowhere near as fast as Juubito's movement speed and JM Madara should definitely be faster than Juubito.

Good lord, do you not see how Minato clearly says "We will support Gai"? Gai could have easily dodged his orbs. To think he couldn't doesn't make sense considering a few pages back we see his full speed.

He was not "in a fast running movement". How on earth could you possibly believe he was running fast there when you've literally just seen his full speed in that same chapter, and it's far, far superior to the speed he displayed when using his 5th Step?

I'm not even sure how to respond to this.

*Sigh*

I'll ask you some things

1- Why do you think Gai was running circles around Jubidara?
- To find an opening obviously

2- Why do you think Gai was throwing long range punches if his running speed was enough?
- Because it wasn't, simple


Clarifications

1- The running in circle speed Kishi draw was to show Gai's movement speed in 8gates

2- Madara countering Gai's running speed with the orbs was to show Gai's running speed while being fast(like previously demonstrated) is still slower than the orbs

3- Gai was attacking alone when Minato and the rest stayed backwards, observing the scene, encouraging him and formulating plans. Gai had no idea about his allies plans since his main focus was on Madara

4- Why would Gai not attack him full force when it's already said the evening elephant is a continuous attack from speed1 to speed5 [

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]. Do you know what "continuous" mean?

Continuous = prolonged without interruption; unceasing

So no, Gai was continuously attacking Madara at full speed and his attacks get even faster from step1 to step5 like Lee mentions

I personally don't understand what you don't get in the fact that the evening elephant is a continous fast striking attack, totally independant to Gai's running speed in the gate form

 

[Touken]

*Sigh*

I'll ask you some things

1- Why do you think Gai was running circles around Jubidara?
- To find an opening obviously

2- Why do you think Gai was throwing long range punches if his running speed was enough?
- Because it wasn't, simple

Except that they weren't long range [

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]. He was actually blitzing Madara [

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][

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]. His running speed was more than enough. If he wanted to directly hit Madara he could have but he chose to execute Sekizo from a distance to completely trap Madara [

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]. He was clearly blitzing Madara there.

Clarifications

1- The running in circle speed Kishi draw was to show Gai's movement speed in 8gates

2- Madara countering Gai's running speed with the orbs was to show Gai's running speed while being fast(like previously demonstrated) is still slower than the orbs

3- Gai was attacking alone when Minato and the rest stayed backwards, observing the scene, encouraging him and formulating plans. Gai had no idea about his allies plans since his main focus was on Madara

4- Why would Gai not attack him full force when it's already said the evening elephant is a continuous attack from speed1 to speed5 [

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]. Do you know what "continuous" mean?

Continuous = prolonged without interruption; unceasing

So no, Gai was continuously attacking Madara at full speed and his attacks get even faster from step1 to step5 like Lee mentions

I personally don't understand what you don't get in the fact that the evening elephant is a continous fast striking attack, totally independant to Gai's running speed in the gate form

Lol, these aren't clarifications.

-Yeah, and? Through that Kishi established he was kicking up air currents with his speed alone.

-Except he wasn't at full speed. I thought I explained that gliding is completely different to running in my previous post.

-Oh, that makes perfect sense. He suddenly goes deaf because he's focusing on Madara.

-Yeah, his striking speed gets faster, so I'm not even sure why you're bringing this up when you yourself just said Evening Elephant is totally independent to Gai's movement speed, and we're only discussing movement speed.

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and it's well beyond the speed Madara's Onmyoudon orbs have shown and thus in turn faster than Kakashi's Kamui. Lemme know when his orbs are fast enough to create air currents.

 

[Bogard]

Except that they weren't long range [

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]. He was actually blitzing Madara [

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][

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]. His running speed was more than enough. If he wanted to directly hit Madara he could have but he chose to execute Sekizo from a distance to completely trap Madara [

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]. He was clearly blitzing Madara there.

How are they not long range punches? [

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] We clearly see a long range and rectangular path on the middle of the page showing the punch trajectory of the attack. They can be used in a close range situation just like Jinton [

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], but they are long range attack. And no Madara actually never got blitzed. He blocked the first punch [

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], only that the onmyoudon sphere covered his vision at the same time it took Gai to get behind him. He still noticed Gai's position behind him though, but since the onmyoudon sphere was already protecting him from a frontal attack, he couldn't guard himself against the second attack

Lol, these aren't clarifications.

Yes they are

-Yeah, and? Through that Kishi established he was kicking up air currents with his speed alone.

Just like 4gated Lee in part1. All what it shows is how fast Gai actually is. It doesn't prove he is faster than someone else however since there is no comparison there whatsover. Because i can run fast doesn't make me faster than Usain Bolt because i never compared myself with Usain Bolt in speed

-Except he wasn't at full speed. I thought I explained that gliding is completely different to running in my previous post.

Not convincing explanation for me. Gliding = To fly without propulsion, using an aircraft for example. I've never seen an aircraft capable to circle around something/someone in a linear circumference. Even with an aircraft, you usually have a falling trajectory

-Oh, that makes perfect sense. He suddenly goes deaf because he's focusing on Madara.

Exactly it makes sense he would know their allies plan when he isn't even by their side

-Yeah, his striking speed gets faster, so I'm not even sure why you're bringing this up when you yourself just said Evening Elephant is totally independent to Gai's movement speed, and we're only discussing movement speed.

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and it's well beyond the speed Madara's Onmyoudon orbs have shown and thus in turn faster than Kakashi's Kamui. Lemme know when his orbs are fast enough to create air currents.

I bring that up to show you only Gai's striking speed could overcome Madara, not his movement speed that is nowhere near to accomplish something like that. About Gai's speed, i already explained above, so i won't bother repeating myself

Edit: Actually Lee wasn't even in 4gates. He created air currents in base, same with Sasuke, yet Sasuke was fodderised later on by Itachi. So creating air currents doesn't mean much

 

[Optimistic]

This went off-topic fast. Dat Touken.

 

[Lana Del Taka]

Sasuke wins both of them.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

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The blur lines transitioning into an outline of Gai's body clearly indicate how fast Gai is moving. The blur lines is Gai at the peak of his speed when he kicks the air to propel himself. The blur lines transitioning into an outline of Gai's body indicate the decline of his speed due to losing momentum from his kick. So as you can see, Gai has to repeatedly kick the air every so often to remain at a fast speed. Unlike

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and

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where the speed is at a constant rate due to them actually running on their feet. So we can exactly guage 8th gated Gai's speed while in pseudo-flight and conclude that it's comparable to his constant running speed? Absolutely not.

Furthermore, Minato told Gai

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to focus on nothing else but hitting Madara, which is exactly what he did. There was absolutely no emphasis on Gai being surprised or shocked that Madaras orbs were about to hit him, or that there was a kunai suddenly flying by his face, or that Minato teleported in front of him, or Kakashi flying right beside him on a sand cloud using a kamui to make an opening for Gai. He did just what Minato told him, to worry about nothing other then landing a punch on Madara. In other words, Minato reassured him that they were going to back him up. It's only through fabrication of the manga, can we conclude that Gai wouldn't of been able to defend himself against Madaras orbs despite having by far the fastest hand striking speed to defend himself, eyes comparable to any dojutsu in terms of tracking fast movements, in addition to the fact that he has already done so himself in the lower stages of gates [

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].

 

[Touken]

How are they not long range punches? [

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] We clearly see a long range and rectangular path on the middle of the page showing the punch trajectory of the attack. They can be used in a close range situation just like Jinton [

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], but they are long range attack. And no Madara actually never got blitzed. He blocked the first punch [

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], only that the onmyoudon sphere covered his vision at the same time it took Gai to get behind him. He still noticed Gai's position behind him though, but since the onmyoudon sphere was already protecting him from a frontal attack, he couldn't guard himself against the second attack

The Onmyoudon sphere covered his vision? Now you're just making excuses. For one, he has a Rinnegan that can see chakra, two, he has Hashirama's SM sensing, three, he has the Juubi's host sensing. He doesn't need eyes to block attacks. He couldn't guard himself against the 2nd Step because he was too slow. He wasn't quick enough to make his orbs shield his other side. Now that's a blitz. That isn't long range, it's short-mid range and I've already explained why Gai went with the short-mid range approach.

Just like 4gated Lee in part1. All what it shows is how fast Gai actually is. It doesn't prove he is faster than someone else however since there is no comparison there whatsover. Because i can run fast doesn't make me faster than Usain Bolt because i never compared myself with Usain Bolt in speed

I don't know what your point is. 4G Lee is fast but he isn't fast enough to create massive air currents. No person in the manga has the speed to do what Gai did so your little analogy doesn't work.

Not convincing explanation for me. Gliding = To fly without propulsion, using an aircraft for example. I've never seen an aircraft capable to circle around something/someone in a linear circumference. Even with an aircraft, you usually have a falling trajectory

You know what Buzz did in Toy Story 1? Yeah, that's what Gai did. I shouldn't have to explain this, Kishi's made it way too clear in the manga.

Exactly it makes sense he would know their allies plan when he isn't even by their side

Except Minato told Gai not to worry about anything and to just go straight for the attack [

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].

I bring that up to show you only Gai's striking speed could overcome Madara, not his movement speed that is nowhere near to accomplish something like that. About Gai's speed, i already explained above, so i won't bother repeating myself

Edit: Actually Lee wasn't even in 4gates. He created air currents in base, same with Sasuke, yet Sasuke was fodderised later on by Itachi. So creating air currents doesn't mean much

Yeah, no, no one in the manga can replicate what Gai did. Lee hasn't made air currents in base, nor has Sasuke.

 

[Bogard]

The Onmyoudon sphere covered his vision? Now you're just making excuses. For one, he has a Rinnegan that can see chakra, two, he has Hashirama's SM sensing, three, he has the Juubi's host sensing. He doesn't need eyes to block attacks. He couldn't guard himself against the 2nd Step because he was too slow. He wasn't quick enough to make his orbs shield his other side. Now that's a blitz. That isn't long range, it's short-mid range and I've already explained why Gai went with the short-mid range approach.

I don't see why i would make excuses on something that goes with my point. I've said it already plenty of times that Gai's punches are faster than Gai's movement speed and it's what i'm defending since day1 here. The second punch is actually faster than the first since it's the step2, so even if Madara was too slow like you say(obviously with exaggeration), it proves nothing concerning Gai's movement speed since once again, the punches are faster than him

But just to clarify something, no Madara wasn't too slow for the second punch. Firstly, Madara saw the attack like i've said illustrated by the "!" showing he noticed Gai behind him, but the black stuff was already covering the front from the first attack, leaving opening from behind that Madara that Gai took with the second and faster punch than the first

Secondly, you say he has SM sensing, sure, but at that particular moment, it wasn't needed since he was following Gai's speed perfectly fine with his eyes [

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] When someone is relying on his eyes to see something and then suddenly loses sight, there is an adaptation time(either small or long depending on the person) during which the person learn to use other senses to detect a target. Madara never needed sensing to follow a Gai he could follow with his eyes

This picture also shows Gai's speed was nowhere near enough to blitz him since he could follow his speed perfectly fine. I lol'd at the making excuse thing when you're the one who making up laughable stuffs like Gai not going at full speed in the 5step of his continuous attack when he already said he can't leave any opening [

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]

You know what Buzz did in Toy Story 1? Yeah, that's what Gai did. I shouldn't have to explain this, Kishi's made it way too clear in the manga.

What is clear for me is that he was continuously kicking air to run circles around Madara and find openings because if he attacked straight forward, he would have been merked

Except Minato told Gai not to worry about anything and to just go straight for the attack [

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].

The *********** translation isn't reliable [

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]

Yeah, no, no one in the manga can replicate what Gai did. Lee hasn't made air currents in base, nor has Sasuke.

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Itachi never did it. I guess they were faster than him

 

[shelke]

Gai's striking speed is much faster, which is why it creates the Friction based punches The Morning Peacock, and the shock-wave based punch The Afternoon Tiger. His Latest attack also shows how he is able to use air-pressure via persistent strikes to create the Elephant attack. Nothing suggests otherwise.

 

[Touken]

I don't see why i would make excuses on something that goes with my point. I've said it already plenty of times that Gai's punches are faster than Gai's movement speed and it's what i'm defending since day1 here. The second punch is actually faster than the first since it's the step2, so even if Madara was too slow like you say(obviously with exaggeration), it proves nothing concerning Gai's movement speed since once again, the punches are faster than him

Bold is still wrong. Every shinobi's movement speed is faster than their striking speed. 6G Gai managed to blitz Kisame without him even processing a thought [

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] (top panel) but yet he was able to process a few thoughts (albeit just barely) when Gai struck [

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]. His movement speed is faster than his striking speed. Evidence is right there. Gai had to use his movement speed to get behind Madara. The 2nd Step's punch is faster but Gai still had to go completely around Madara to land that 2nd Step [

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][

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]. That's a blitz.

But just to clarify something, no Madara wasn't too slow for the second punch. Firstly, Madara saw the attack like i've said illustrated by the "!" showing he noticed Gai behind him, but the black stuff was already covering the front from the first attack, leaving opening from behind that Madara that Gai took with the second and faster punch than the first

@bold, yes, there was an opening from behind him, so Gai had to go completely around him and then use 2nd Step.

Secondly, you say he has SM sensing, sure, but at that particular moment, it wasn't needed since he was following Gai's speed perfectly fine with his eyes [

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] When someone is relying on his eyes to see something and then suddenly loses sight, there is an adaptation time(either small or long depending on the person) during which the person learn to use other senses to detect a target. Madara never needed sensing to follow a Gai he could follow with his eyes

The sensing is all passive. He's sensing even when he's using his eyes. Juubito's using both eyes there yet he still senses the build-up of chakra in Sasuke's left eye [

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]. So that shows sensing by being the Juubi's host is passive but what's more is that SM sensing is also passive [

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]. Doesn't matter whether he needs to sense or not, it's always there.

This picture also shows Gai's speed was nowhere near enough to blitz him since he could follow his speed perfectly fine. I lol'd at the making excuse thing when you're the one who making up laughable stuffs like Gai not going at full speed in the 5step of his continuous attack when he already said he can't leave any opening [

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]

He didn't need to go at full speed because he knew Madara was completely trapped by the 4th Step. He knew that Madara was forced to wrap himself up in an Onmyoudon sphere because he could no longer move. Gai had done his job of not allowing Madara a single opening to attack [

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].

What is clear for me is that he was continuously kicking air to run circles around Madara and find openings because if he attacked straight forward, he would have been merked

Wow. Gai's not retarded enough to attack anyone straight forward and so I'd certainly hope he wouldn't against the Juubi's host. You're grasping at straws here.

The *********** translation isn't reliable [

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]

Lol, they both say the exact same thing, plus, I'm gonna trust MS since they spend more time on their scans and translations than MP.

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Itachi never did it. I guess they were faster than him

...

That isn't air currents. You do know that's dust kicked up from the ground?