MS Madara takes the Gaunlet

[Gold Lightning]

Hiruzen jumped before the jutsu started.

And what risk? If tobirama teleports the explosives next to Madara there's absolutely no risk for him. Unless he's stupid enough to perform that jutsu while he's close to Madara.

Yeah he moves before the explosion went off. Same thing will happen with Madara. Unless Tobirama can restrain Madara then of course Madara will move out of the way. What's gonna stop Madara from moving?

You're asking me what risk?
Upon ACTIVATION, due to the devastating (terribly violent) explosions, it is highly probable that the jutsu-caster will be caught in it. If a live PERSON performs the technique, death is inevitable

The databook didn't just throw this in for the lulz smh. It's almost certain that Tobirama himself will get caught in the blast. Doesn't say "fair chance", "doesn't say "slight possibility", doesn't say "maybe".... It says "HIGHLY PROBABLE", as in the probability of Tobirama getting caught in the explosion is very high. A live person performing the technique means certain death as well U_U.

You have no idea how the technique actually functions. You are speculating that Tobirama can just teleport the explosions or can just cast it from afar, but the db makes it clear that that isn't the case. If this was so then this jutsu wouldn't come with such precautions. Obviously Tobirama himself needs to initiate the jutsu and most likely get close to the opponent. Unless you can show how Gojo actually functions with ET and how Tobirama activates the jutsu, then there is no point of even brining this up since it's made clear that this technique is a danger to the user.

 

[Unorthodox]

1- Madara is getting caught in gojo in fact, not even Juubito escaped it. He only tanked it due to his durability. On top of that, madara doesn't have a valid way to actually damage Tobirama. His giant katon only works on his front, while Tobirama could FTG to his back.
Madara wearing a ribcage Susano is death for him, since he needs a higher level of susano to tank Gojo, and that would suck his chakra reserves faster. Tobirama can mark his edos with FTG and teleport then near to Madara at any time, so he's not dodging it, since Tobirama can teleport them right when they are about to explode.

Saying its a fact makes you look pretty stupid kid. Juubito did not try to escape it as he knew it would be useless furthermore Tobirama needed Hashirama to grab him and keep Juubito still aswell Tobirama has no Hashirama here so its not happening periode. Juubito's Durability is questionable considering in his v2 form his back with blown open by a base senjutsu rasengan you clearly do not no how Gojo work to began with Gold lighting already shitted on you concerning its mechanics i dont think ill need to re type what he already established. Madara has enough valid ways to take out Tobirama his Katon boils him easy warping behind Madara is only true if Madara lets an ftg kunai get behind him which he wont and Bushin can shoot they're katon aswell so warping behind him is no answer at all. Still talking about gojo huh? Its not happening Hiruzen managed to get out of its blast radius in time and with Tobirama having no way to keep madara still he escapes to. Even if he is caught which he wont v4 susanoo tanks it Gojo is nothing more then burnt tags its not doing serious damage in the only way it to even expand full size is for someone to keep fueling it Tobirama does not have that here so once again gojo is irrelevant also he is not exhausting from using v4 susanoo from gojo to began with when its only last like 5 seconds. Tobirama warping his edos near Madara is funny so Madara is going to sit they're with an ftg kunai right by him? Also Madara has bushin out in the battlefield makes landing gojo on the real one even more difficult Tobirama loses this.

2- Minato teleports any giant katon right back to Madara's face. Or he could just teleport to madara's back. Madara has no way of touching Minato, and is finally outlasted. It was never implied Madara kept up with Hashirama just using susano, since that would be impossible, MS users don't have stamina problems when using susano, they have pain and start losing their vision, Madara having high chakra reserves is not useful if after a while of using susano he starts going blind and feeling pain.

Know your jutsu kid, hiraishin only works on things with mass and guess what katon has no mass, since when can Minato warp things back into people's face or anything of the sorts? Space time barrier has a size limit to what it can suck up and Madara's katon bypasses those limits so thats useless. How is Minato warping to Madara's back without having a kunai behind him prior to his warping? simple answer hes not Madara will not sit they're and let Minato put a kunai behind him if anything he stays away from all the kunai you do not need to debate with hiraishin users. Katon kills Minato it bypasses all his ftg so Minato is not running for ever Madara is not losing his vision or going blind through the course of 1 battle please try again he also outlast Minato.

Irrelevant if he shits on animal path, they are just there as a distraction. Once the orb for CT is ready he gets stomped.

Agreed

Madara is not dodging GSB if its from close range. And given the lack of knowledge, he would try to tank it with susano, meaning a one shot for him, since GSB absorbs the susano and gros even bigger, killing Madara. If full knowledge was displayed then yes madara could dodge it, but there isn't, so madara would try to tank it since he'd think its just a normal water jutsu.

Kisame never uses GSB close range to began with there is no lack of knowledge info is full read the op before typing nonsense. the rest of your post is based on the knowledge argument which have been countered so my old argument still stands.

Madara kept up with V1 Ay having rinnegan pre-cog. V2 Ay already showed MS can't keep up with his speed. So madara won't be able to follow Ay, while the 3rd raikage tanks everything Madara has. Ay + sandaime 's chakra reserves> Madara's. Madara gets outlasted. Giant katon is dodged or tanked.

Read my thread i addressed how he defeats both

MS Madara? Having reserves on par with Hashirama? Stupidest thing I've heard today.

Well you need to re read your post then.

Sasuke's stamina jumped when he got EMS. So did his speed due to the buff in chakra strength. So why are you (unorthodox) giving Blind Madara speed feats to MS Madara? Why are you giving EMS Madara chakra feats to MS Madara?

The bold is support by not a single manga scan just assumptions. EMS Sasuke is no faster than Hebi Sasuke. Sasuke chakra did not increase it just abilities like susanoo was nothing once he gained EMS. Blind Madara is no faster than MS madara so your post is irrelevant.

Post does not matter anyways because its not like he would lose any of these fights due to exhausting of chakra

Even w/ EMS, Madara obviously has nowhere near the chakra amount that Hashirama possesses. Hashirama used far more chakra than him at VoTE since he had Kurama on his side, which is where most of his attacks came from.

The bold is where i should have stopped. Hashirama did not controlling Kurama accordingly to what the situation was is far more taxing then having kurama run wild of a village Perfect susanoo is more taxing than anything bar Shinsuusenjutsu so its moot and even is Madara chakra level's are not the same as Hashirama they at very least in the same tier.

 

[Unorthodox]

Yeah he moves before the explosion went off. Same thing will happen with Madara. Unless Tobirama can restrain Madara then of course Madara will move out of the way. What's gonna stop Madara from moving?

You're asking me what risk?
Upon ACTIVATION, due to the devastating (terribly violent) explosions, it is highly probable that the jutsu-caster will be caught in it. If a live PERSON performs the technique, death is inevitable

The databook didn't just throw this in for the lulz smh. It's almost certain that Tobirama himself will get caught in the blast. Doesn't say "fair chance", "doesn't say "slight possibility", doesn't say "maybe".... It says "HIGHLY PROBABLE", as in the probability of Tobirama getting caught in the explosion is very high. A live person performing the technique means certain death as well U_U.

You have no idea how the technique actually functions. You are speculating that Tobirama can just teleport the explosions or can just cast it from afar, but the db makes it clear that that isn't the case. If this was so then this jutsu wouldn't come with such precautions. Obviously Tobirama himself needs to initiate the jutsu and most likely get close to the opponent. Unless you can show how Gojo actually functions with ET and how Tobirama activates the jutsu, then there is no point of even brining this up since it's made clear that this technique is a danger to the user.

you've been owning shit lately i'v been watching you might be able to become a disciple with your new skills

 

[KidGamer65]

The bold is support by not a single manga scan just assumptions. EMS Sasuke is no faster than Hebi Sasuke. Sasuke chakra did not increase it just abilities like susanoo was nothing once he gained EMS. Blind Madara is no faster than MS madara so your post is irrelevant.

When Hebi Sasuke has feats of not getting punked by Itachi and reacting as fast as the guy who can react to V2 Ay, then we can talk about his speed feats not being better.

The bold is where i should have stopped. Hashirama did not controlling Kurama accordingly to what the situation was is far more taxing then having kurama run wild of a village Perfect susanoo is more taxing than anything bar Shinsuusenjutsu so its moot and even is Madara chakra level's are not the same as Hashirama they at very least in the same tier.

Who cares? Consistently forming Bijuu sized Mokutons and then using Shinsuusenju is far far more chakra consuming than using Perfect Susanoo for only the later part of the fight and controlling a Bijuu. What Madara did w/ Kurama doesn't use any more chakra than what Obito did. What Kurama does is pulled from Kurama's chakra. Not Madara's.

Their chakra levels are not on par. Not even close.

 

[Unorthodox]

When Hebi Sasuke has feats of not getting punked by Itachi and reacting as fast as the guy who can react to V2 Ay, then we can talk about his speed feats not being better.

Hebi Sasuke did not get phucked up in CQC he was just thrown back and i call irrelevance on the fact you even brought that up considering it does not help you case since Itachi and Sasuke was shown to be equal speed wise when clashing

You must be registered for see links

he was just outmatched skill wise. CQC does not equal speed anyways.

The same Itachi that took on KMC naruto in CQC who was holding back and not using his standard fighting movements consiering he did not want to fight Kabuto was making them so we can very say willing Itachi could do the same against KMC Naruto. Who EMS Sasuke had no problem keeping up reactions is not speed so your point because null as EMS pre-cog shits on 3 tomoes.

Who cares? Consistently forming Bijuu sized Mokutons and then using Shinsuusenju is far far more chakra consuming than using Perfect Susanoo for only the later part of the fight and controlling a Bijuu. What Madara did w/ Kurama doesn't use any more chakra than what Obito did. What Kurama does is pulled from Kurama's chakra. Not Madara's.
Their chakra levels are not on par. Not even close.

It was more usage then with Obito as he had to operate Kurama to form a bijuu dama in conjunction with his perfect susanoo blade.

 

[EZQ]

Yeah he moves before the explosion went off. Same thing will happen with Madara. Unless Tobirama can restrain Madara then of course Madara will move out of the way. What's gonna stop Madara from moving?

You're asking me what risk?
Upon ACTIVATION, due to the devastating (terribly violent) explosions, it is highly probable that the jutsu-caster will be caught in it. If a live PERSON performs the technique, death is inevitable

The databook didn't just throw this in for the lulz smh. It's almost certain that Tobirama himself will get caught in the blast. Doesn't say "fair chance", "doesn't say "slight possibility", doesn't say "maybe".... It says "HIGHLY PROBABLE", as in the probability of Tobirama getting caught in the explosion is very high. A live person performing the technique means certain death as well U_U.

You have no idea how the technique actually functions. You are speculating that Tobirama can just teleport the explosions or can just cast it from afar, but the db makes it clear that that isn't the case. If this was so then this jutsu wouldn't come with such precautions. Obviously Tobirama himself needs to initiate the jutsu and most likely get close to the opponent. Unless you can show how Gojo actually functions with ET and how Tobirama activates the jutsu, then there is no point of even brining this up since it's made clear that this technique is a danger to the user.

Madara can move out of the way, but Tobirama can teleport the edos next to him when they're just about to explode switching positions with them. All tobirama has to do is to get close to Madara and activate the jutsu, when the edos are about to explode he switches with them with FTG. Tobirama's usage of FTG took a shit on Obito 4 times, his timing with it is perfect. So if that happens, Madara won't have enough time to move. Hiruzen jumped a way A LOT before the jutsu started, since there was even enough time for Tobirama to even explain how the jutsu works after Hiruzen jumped. No way Hiruzen could have escaped from it when the jutsu had already started considering its huge AOE. Madara won't be able either, since I already explained, the edos would be FTG'ed next to him when they're just about to explode.

Tobirama can avoid this risk via FTG. Stupid point. He just needs to make sure the initial position of his edos is far enough to not get caught on the explosion, then engage madara in CQC and bring the edos with FTG, switching positions with them. When the explosion starts he'd be save. Tobirama created this jutsu as a resource for edo tensei users, ao obviously he has ways to use it without dying.

Databook entries are the most of times flawed, as Tobirama as a FTG user has a lot of ways to make sure he can survive to it.

You have no idea how the technique actually functions. You are speculating that Tobirama can just teleport the explosions or can just cast it from afar, but the db makes it clear that that isn't the case. If this was so then this jutsu wouldn't come with such precautions. Obviously Tobirama himself needs to initiate the jutsu and most likely get close to the opponent. Unless you can show how Gojo actually functions with ET and how Tobirama activates the jutsu, then there is no point of even brining this up since it's made clear that this technique is a danger to the user.

You didn't understand my point at all. Tobirama won't be teleporting the explosions, he can teleport the edos when they're about to explode. He already showed he can teleport people to other places with FTG marks, so this is a viable tactic. And again, even if Tobirama has to be close to the edos to set up the explosion, he can do it, set it up from a close distance, and then escape from FTG or if he was doing it close to madara, he'd be the one escaping via FTG.

Okay so almighty unorthodox i won't reply to your post, i'd just wait for you to read this one

 

[EZQ]

Saying its a fact makes you look pretty stupid kid. Juubito did not try to escape it as he knew it would be useless furthermore Tobirama needed Hashirama to grab him and keep Juubito still aswell Tobirama has no Hashirama here so its not happening periode. Juubito's Durability is questionable considering in his v2 form his back with blown open by a base senjutsu rasengan you clearly do not no how Gojo work to began with Gold lighting already shitted on you concerning its mechanics i dont think ill need to re type what he already established. Madara has enough valid ways to take out Tobirama his Katon boils him easy warping behind Madara is only true if Madara lets an ftg kunai get behind him which he wont and Bushin can shoot they're katon aswell so warping behind him is no answer at all. Still talking about gojo huh? Its not happening Hiruzen managed to get out of its blast radius in time and with Tobirama having no way to keep madara still he escapes to. Even if he is caught which he wont v4 susanoo tanks it Gojo is nothing more then burnt tags its not doing serious damage in the only way it to even expand full size is for someone to keep fueling it Tobirama does not have that here so once again gojo is irrelevant also he is not exhausting from using v4 susanoo from gojo to began with when its only last like 5 seconds. Tobirama warping his edos near Madara is funny so Madara is going to sit they're with an ftg kunai right by him? Also Madara has bushin out in the battlefield makes landing gojo on the real one even more difficult Tobirama loses this.





Know your jutsu kid, hiraishin only works on things with mass and guess what katon has no mass, since when can Minato warp things back into people's face or anything of the sorts? Space time barrier has a size limit to what it can suck up and Madara's katon bypasses those limits so thats useless. How is Minato warping to Madara's back without having a kunai behind him prior to his warping? simple answer hes not Madara will not sit they're and let Minato put a kunai behind him if anything he stays away from all the kunai you do not need to debate with hiraishin users. Katon kills Minato it bypasses all his ftg so Minato is not running for ever Madara is not losing his vision or going blind through the course of 1 battle please try again he also outlast Minato.



Agreed



Kisame never uses GSB close range to began with there is no lack of knowledge info is full read the op before typing nonsense. the rest of your post is based on the knowledge argument which have been countered so my old argument still stands.



Read my thread i addressed how he defeats both



Well you need to re read your post then.




The bold is support by not a single manga scan just assumptions. EMS Sasuke is no faster than Hebi Sasuke. Sasuke chakra did not increase it just abilities like susanoo was nothing once he gained EMS. Blind Madara is no faster than MS madara so your post is irrelevant.

Post does not matter anyways because its not like he would lose any of these fights due to exhausting of chakra



The bold is where i should have stopped. Hashirama did not controlling Kurama accordingly to what the situation was is far more taxing then having kurama run wild of a village Perfect susanoo is more taxing than anything bar Shinsuusenjutsu so its moot and even is Madara chakra level's are not the same as Hashirama they at very least in the same tier.

1- Adressed above to god lightining

2- Teleports it back to his face" was just a way to say it, of course he can't redirect it, but he already FTG'ed away a JuubiDama which is almost the size of Madara's katon, so he could teleport madara's jutsu away. at your speculation of "ftg can only warp things with mass and fire has no mass", <-- that right there is the most stupid thing i've ever read. Minato already warped Juubi TBB which is a jutsu, so there's absolutely no reason for him to not be able to do it to a giant ball of fire.
(And i won't even bother to bring science here, but you saying fire doesn't have mass is ignorance on its perfect state. Fire is composed by high temperature gasses that can produce presure, and that's how rockets work. Fire is composed by mass (the gasses) and energy which is generated by the chain reaction of photons at high tempreture. If fire didn't have mass then it wouldn't generate pressure. I don't even know why i brought it up since science doesn't apply in NV always. And before you reply back with even more ignorace i must tell you i studied that on college last year, and if you have any more doubts then just google about fire and mass).

Minato doesn't need to put a kunai behind Madara, he just needs to touch the floor behind him or even a rock. Anyways, if the fire jutsu is coming at him Minato would teleport it away as he did to the Juubi's TBB. No need to dodge it.

3- Well with full knowledge then i must agree that Madara can dodge GSB. Still, Kisame's stamina >> Madara's and with Itachi there Madara has no chance for several reasons.

4- Already read it, and its not legit.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Madara can move out of the way, but Tobirama can teleport the edos next to him when they're just about to explode switching positions with them. All tobirama has to do is to get close to Madara and activate the jutsu, when the edos are about to explode he switches with them with FTG. Tobirama's usage of FTG took a shit on Obito 4 times, his timing with it is perfect. So if that happens, Madara won't have enough time to move. Hiruzen jumped a way A LOT before the jutsu started, since there was even enough time for Tobirama to even explain how the jutsu works after Hiruzen jumped. No way Hiruzen could have escaped from it when the jutsu had already started considering its huge AOE. Madara won't be able either, since I already explained, the edos would be FTG'ed next to him when they're just about to explode.

Tobirama can avoid this risk via FTG. Stupid point. He just needs to make sure the initial position of his edos is far enough to not get caught on the explosion, then engage madara in CQC and bring the edos with FTG, switching positions with them. When the explosion starts he'd be save. Tobirama created this jutsu as a resource for edo tensei users, ao obviously he has ways to use it without dying.

Databook entries are the most of times flawed, as Tobirama as a FTG user has a lot of ways to make sure he can survive to it.

You have no idea how the technique actually functions. You are speculating that Tobirama can just teleport the explosions or can just cast it from afar, but the db makes it clear that that isn't the case. If this was so then this jutsu wouldn't come with such precautions. Obviously Tobirama himself needs to initiate the jutsu and most likely get close to the opponent. Unless you can show how Gojo actually functions with ET and how Tobirama activates the jutsu, then there is no point of even brining this up since it's made clear that this technique is a danger to the user.

You didn't understand my point at all. Tobirama won't be teleporting the explosions, he can teleport the edos when they're about to explode. He already showed he can teleport people to other places with FTG marks, so this is a viable tactic. And again, even if Tobirama has to be close to the edos to set up the explosion, he can do it, set it up from a close distance, and then escape from FTG or if he was doing it close to madara, he'd be the one escaping via FTG.

Okay so almighty unorthodox i won't reply to your post, i'd just wait for you to read this one

You are missing the point completely.

YOU DONT KNOW HOW GKF FUNCTIONS. No one does because we have never seen it. You don't know the initiation/activation process. If Tobirama could simply teleport the edos away or teleport himself to a safe location, then there wouldn't be any risk to the jutsu. The db says it's a suicidal technique and even with ET has a high probability of the user getting caught in it. You simply choose to ignore that.

It's not about Tobirama having ways to avoid the explosion. There are probably reasons as to why Tobirama simply cannot escape the blast range. Probably because there are certain requirements Tobirama has to fulfil in order to actually successfully set off the jutsu.

Tobirama created the jutsu in order to clear battlefields. Meaning large number of enemies. That could just mean with large amount of prep and allies, he is able to successfully perform the jutsu. But in a 1 vs 1 without preoperation or backup, then no. you think Madara is just gonna sit there and watch Tobirama make summons, set up the jutsu and die? Come on now.

You can flaw the db and ignore it. It doesn't have to tell us exactly how the jutsu works. It has already told us the drawbacks. If you can't accept that then tough. Don't bother to argue this topic then. It's a jutsu we fully don't understand and completely featless, yet you think you can properly argue it in a vs thread. then make excuses that the db is wrong when you have no argument. Imam follow what the db said about the jutsu, while you continue to make up possibilities in your head.

Sad part is Tobirama doesn't need Edo Tensei (a technique inferior to part 1 orochimarus version) to beat MS Madara.

 

[EZQ]

You are missing the point completely.

YOU DONT KNOW HOW GKF FUNCTIONS. No one does because we have never seen it. You don't know the initiation/activation process. If Tobirama could simply teleport the edos away or teleport himself to a safe location, then there wouldn't be any risk to the jutsu. The db says it's a suicidal technique and even with ET has a high probability of the user getting caught in it. You simply choose to ignore that.

It's not about Tobirama having ways to avoid the explosion. There are probably reasons as to why Tobirama simply cannot escape the blast range. Probably because there are certain requirements Tobirama has to fulfil in order to actually successfully set off the jutsu.

Tobirama created the jutsu in order to clear battlefields. Meaning large number of enemies. That could just mean with large amount of prep and allies, he is able to successfully perform the jutsu. But in a 1 vs 1 without preoperation or backup, then no. you think Madara is just gonna sit there and watch Tobirama make summons, set up the jutsu and die? Come on now.

You can flaw the db and ignore it. It doesn't have to tell us exactly how the jutsu works. It has already told us the drawbacks. If you can't accept that then tough. Don't bother to argue this topic then. It's a jutsu we fully don't understand and completely featless, yet you think you can properly argue it in a vs thread. then make excuses that the db is wrong when you have no argument. Imam follow what the db said about the jutsu, while you continue to make up possibilities in your head.

Sad part is Tobirama doesn't need Edo Tensei (a technique inferior to part 1 orochimarus version) to beat MS Madara.

Its pretty well explained in the manga. Tobirama created as a extra use for edo tensei. Explosive tags explode and summon another tags and that keeps for a long while to create a huge explosion.

I don't know how its activated? Sure, Tobirama only used it on himself, so of course i won't know how he activates when he's the one controling the edo's, but we do know two things: Tobirama can use FTG on everything he marks, and jutsus are activated with hand seals. So, its my brain that tells me, that Tobirama making hand seals can activate the explosions of his edo tenseis.

And Tobirama performed the jutsu while being alive (obviously), and of course, he didn't use it on himself (since he was an edo tensei just 2 times, and the first time against Hiruzen he didn't show it). So obviously, Tobirama can use Gojo on his edos, and he used it and survived it.

How did he activate the jutsu? Probably with hand seals, and that's how the jutsu works, but instead of Tobirama exploding, his summons do.

I didn't read the rest of your post since we clearly are on different pages.

 

[MickNerks]

Madara doesnt make it pass Tobirama.

Tobirama wins due to MS Madara being equal in strength to MS Izuna
SM Jiraiya stomps low diff