MS Kakashi vs. MS Itachi

[Black Wolf]

The Sharingan has the ability to see the chakra build-up in an eye and also see chakra. Stop it you silly child.

Itachi's eyes failed to see through Kakashi hiding underground right under his nose. Why should it be able to see through Doton and Suiton walls?

Kamui has no such "build-up." The eye does not bleed prior to firing the technique like Amaterasu does, and the execution of the technique is far faster. Both Itachi and Sasuke's Mangekyo Amaterasu bursts give the visual cue of blood as well as a small downtime prior to the technique being unleashed. Kamui hasn't done that except in the Deidara fight, where Kakashi openly admitted the inability to properly aim the technique.

Classy. Looks like name calling and insults is the best argument you can bring forth (which you clearly need to try harder at).

 

[LustyLover]

Itachi's eyes failed to see through Kakashi hiding underground right under his nose. Why should it be able to see through Doton and Suiton walls?

Kamui has no such "build-up." The eye does not bleed prior to firing the technique like Amaterasu does, and the execution of the technique is far faster. Both Itachi and Sasuke's Mangekyo Amaterasu bursts give the visual cue of blood as well as a small downtime prior to the technique being unleashed. Kamui hasn't done that except in the Deidara fight, where Kakashi openly admitted the inability to properly aim the technique.

Looks like name calling and insults is the best argument you can bring forth (which you clearly need to try harder at).

Because not only was he not bothering to look at it, but he was purposely there to give Naruto Shisui's crow and not there to kill AS well as it not even him but a clone that was at thirty percent of his power.

Any eye dojutsu technique has a chakra build-up.

Umad?

 

[Legendary Toad Sage]

Itachi having knowledge about Kamui =/= Itachi having a counter to Kamui

He gets warped like everyone else.

Does it mean that Kakashi is > then Itachi? No, he just has hax. Stop trying to argue against something obvious as day. Kamui wrecks him easily.

 

[Bronze]

So you're not going to counter what I replied, Strict? Should have seen this coming from an Itachi fanboy, such as yourself.​

 

[Black Wolf]

Kakashi had knowledge of Tsukuyomi and still got one-shotted by it. Your point?

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Kakashi is also IC, meaning he won't start out with Kamui and use it at the very end.

Kakashi has used Kamui straight off the bat against Obito when he suspected him to be Madara.

Being IC doesn't mean being intentionally stupid, especially when having full knowledge on your opponent. Kakashi's stamina means he can use Kamui far more liberally, and as seen in the war, it is no longer a last resort jutsu, not when Kakashi can spam it half a dozen times in addition to a plethora of other jutsu before expressing exhaustion.

 

[Strict]

Kamui has no such "build-up." The eye does not bleed prior to firing the technique like Amaterasu does, and the execution of the technique is far faster.

False. I can show you both scans of Itachi and Sasuke storing up Chakra for the first Amaterasu and scans of both firing Amaterasu instantly. Kaumi has of course the same Chakra built up, because you need to build up Chakra for such a move, no matter whether the eye bleeds or not. Where is the problem for Itachi to store up Chakra in his eye, before he decides the moment of firing up the flame instantly, like against Nagato? Kakashi is also storing up Chakra. Most times, he activates his MS first and uses Kamui shortly after. Against the Mazou he even said, that he needs to store up more Chakra before the move.

 

[LustyLover]

Itachi having knowledge about Kamui =/= Itachi having a counter to Kamui

He gets warped like everyone else.

Lel, tell me more as to how he has Kamuied so many top-tiers in one swoop.

Itachi is one of the best strategists and tacticians in the whole series as well as possessing, arguably, the most abundant amount of intellect. Him having full intel on someone's only potentially harmful technique against him is going to allow him to formulate a plan. Him feinting with bunshins and crow clones isn't a far-fetched theory, seeing as how he usually does.

 

[Strict]

So you're not going to counter what I replied, Strict? Should have seen this coming from an Itachi fanboy, such as yourself.​

No, I simply won't bother myself arguing with you, I know how it will end anyway, so why wasting time?

 

[Black Wolf]

Because not only was he not bothering to look at it, but he was purposely there to give Naruto Shisui's crow and not there to kill AS well as it not even him but a clone that was at thirty percent of his power.

Pain's Rinnegan, the Sharingan's evolution, has also failed to see through Kakashi's Doton.

He did not give Naruto Shisui's crow until the Itachi pursuit arc, which was over one hundred chapters later. 30% power refers to chakra capacity, not physical attributes.

Any eye dojutsu technique has a chakra build-up.

Kamui being fast enough to intercept a building sized teleporting target proves it to lack the chakra build-up that Amaterasu has.

Umad?

Not at all. You seem to be, though.

 

[LustyLover]

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Kakashi has used Kamui straight off the bat against Obito when he suspected him to be Madara.

Being IC doesn't mean being intentionally stupid, especially when having full knowledge on your opponent. Kakashi's stamina means he can use Kamui far more liberally, and as seen in the war, it is no longer a last resort jutsu, not when Kakashi can spam it half a dozen times in addition to a plethora of other jutsu before expressing exhaustion.

Kakashi knew he was using lethal Genjutsu and got one-shotted by Genjutsu. Same thing.

Madara is known through-out the entire land as a legend and a god. Of course Kakashi used it. He knew Itachi's notority in the past and still didn't use it against him. There's no difference between him not using it then and him not using it now.

He can use Kamui far more liberally when he has people to watch and heal him and increase his chakra reserves; here, he has no such luxuries. Being IC means he won't use it to start off with.

 

[Bronze]

No, I simply won't bother myself arguing with you, I know how it will end anyway, so why wasting time?

You can learn why your argument is flawed.​

 

[Kamui Sama]

Kakashi knew he was using lethal Genjutsu and got one-shotted by Genjutsu. Same thing.

Madara is known through-out the entire land as a legend and a god. Of course Kakashi used it. He knew Itachi's notority in the past and still didn't use it against him. There's no difference between him not using it then and him not using it now.

He can use Kamui far more liberally when he has people to watch and heal him and increase his chakra reserves; here, he has no such luxuries. Being IC means he won't use it to start off with.

What? Kakashi did not have kamui mastered in their encounter in part 2. He couldn't even control the barrier at that point. It would be too risky considering it was less lethal at that point and it drained him so much

 

[LustyLover]

Pain's Rinnegan, the Sharingan's evolution, has also failed to see through Kakashi's Doton.

He did not give Naruto Shisui's crow until the Itachi pursuit arc, which was over one hundred chapters later. 30% power refers to chakra capacity, not physical attributes.



Kamui being fast enough to intercept a building sized teleporting target proves it to lack the chakra build-up that Amaterasu has.



Not at all. You seem to be, though.

Pain's Rinnegan is not the Sharingan.

You realize that the amount of chakra one holds also affects the strength of their physical attacks? The fact remains that he was not there to kill, but to deter.

Like any other dojutsu technique, it requires a build-up of chakra, which Kakashi has sufficiently demonstrated more than enough.

Me, angry? Lol, slap yourself.

 

[LustyLover]

What? Kakashi did not have kamui mastered in their encounter in part 2. He couldn't even control the barrier at that point. It would be too risky considering it was less lethal at that point and it drained him so much

He used it during part 2 against a mere explosion, and didn't use it in part 2 against Itachi Uchiha? That makes no sense. He had it in both occasions. He didn't use it because he rarely does use it off the bat.

 

[Black Wolf]

So Itachi's MS techniques aren't quality?

Of course they're quality. I just believe Kakashi's is better.

Kakashi stated that his bad eye sight only allows him to warp objects closer to him (as long as not huge targets).

So now we're using a Kakashi that has been fighting for two days straight as the base line for this thread? By that logic, why not use Itachi at the end of the Hebi Sasuke battle? Kakashi's eye-sight was only in that state as of approximately 10 chapters ago, and this is after days of fighting and about a dozen Kamui usages.

Kakashi can warp objects, Itachi can fire Amaterasu at them. Seems like an equivalent, doesn't it?

Kamui boasts the superior feats in outspeeding Obito's own Kamui, which pushed Hiraishin to the limit, as well as intercepting a teleporting Gedo Mazo.

It's not a jumping like Hiraishin; in the end he will just waste his Chakra.

Helps with flanking the enemy by teleporting behind them. He can choose the spot to teleport in the real word, as shown when he warped on top of Obito after exiting the dimension.

How often can a non Uchiha use Kamui without his Chakra restored multiple times?

More than Itachi can, if we're speaking purely feat wise.

He used eight Raikiri variants, two Kage Bunshin (splits chakra in half), a Doton wall, as well as five Kamui prior to being replenished. This is not including the passive stress of having the Sharingan active for around an entire day.

And things like walls and smoke bombs take way too long for a technique that is used instantly. Difference is, that Itachi summons the crows instantly and without hand seals, even summoned as a part of his crow Bunshin from a feint before, while Kakashi needs to form the necessary hand seals and use the Jutsu, or take out smoke bombs which he throws. All that accomplished in the instant Itachi aims at him to fire Amaterasu?

All Kakashi has to do is tap the ground to summon a Doton wall, and he has used Suiton wall against Kakuzu in what seemed to be without handseals, as it was fast enough to intercept a Futon / Katon cannon already on route towards him.

Kakashi has shown the ability to pull out a kunai, nail a falling object prior to it falling, pull out another kunai, tie it with a scroll, and throw it upwards, catch another falling target physically all while undergoing freefall himself and having no more than a second or two to pull all of this off. Pulling out a smoke bomb won't be a problem.

 

[Black Wolf]

Pain's Rinnegan is not the Sharingan.

It is Madara's Rinnegan, evolved from a Sharingan. All forms of Sharingan have shown precognition.

You realize that the amount of chakra one holds also affects the strength of their physical attacks?

All it will effect is the size of their jutsu given a smaller chakra capacity. It will not affect their physical power or attributes.

Like any other dojutsu technique, it requires a build-up of chakra, which Kakashi has sufficiently demonstrated more than enough.

You keep regurgitating the same line without providing any proof.

Kamui intercepted Obito's own Kamui at point blank range, without Obito noticing. A 14 year old Obito's Kamui was pressuring Hiraishin.

Kamui intercepted a teleporting giant summon. The summon appeared out of thin air and then immediately teleported to Madara's location. If Kamui had build up, Gedo Mazo's arm would still be there.

Me, angry? Lol, slap yourself.

And again, finding comfort in insults when no comfort can be found in your increasingly lackluster argument.

 

[Kamui Sama]

He used eight Raikiri variants, two Kage Bunshin (splits chakra in half), a Doton wall, as well as five Kamui prior to being replenished. This is not including the passive stress of having the Sharingan active for around an entire day.

and Kakashi even stated he was worried about his reserves before any of that U_U

Spoiler

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[LustyLover]

It is Madara's Rinnegan, evolved from a Sharingan. All forms of Sharingan have shown precognition



All it will effect is the size of their jutsu given a smaller chakra capacity. It will not affect their physical power or attributes.



You keep regurgitating the same line without providing any proof.

Kamui intercepted Obito's own Kamui at point blank range, without Obito noticing. A 14 year old Obito's Kamui was pressuring Hiraishin.

Kamui intercepted a teleporting giant summon. The summon appeared out of thin air and then immediately teleported to Madara's location. If Kamui had build up, Gedo Mazo's arm would still be there.



And again, finding comfort in insults when no comfort can be found in your increasingly lackluster argument.

- It is Madara's Rinnegan, again, but not his Sharingan. The Rinnegan does not automatically have the ability of the Sharingan simply because it's believed to be superior to it.

- Again, Itachi was not there to kill seeing as how he was in alliance with the Leaf.

- I'm repeating the same things because you, bless your kind soul, lack the required intellect to analyze and respond both accordingly and properly.

- Kamui has a build up because Kakashi has constantly shown him preparing his MS eye in order to cast it. He wouldn't need to if it wasn't the case. Besides, to use any dojutsu of such caliber always requires a chakra focus or build up of some kind. Always. Can you supply me with scans that support the contrary? Anything that requires chakra means you need to build it up in order to use it. Even a simple Katon jutsu does. Amaterasu does the same thing; why can't Kamui when we have proof that it does?

 

[LustyLover]

and Kakashi even stated he was worried about his reserves before any of that U_U

Spoiler

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I don't mean any offense, but all you've been saying thus far was in your defense of Kakashi. Since you're the thread maker, perhaps you should provide ample evidence to support both of the characters instead of one.

 

[Legendary Toad Sage]

Lel, tell me more as to how he has Kamuied so many top-tiers in one swoop.

How many tops tiers he has or has not warped isn't really relevant.

Itachi is one of the best strategists and tacticians in the whole series as well as possessing, arguably, the most abundant amount of intellect. Him having full intel on someone's only potentially harmful technique against him is going to allow him to formulate a plan. Him feinting with bunshins and crow clones isn't a far-fetched theory, seeing as how he usually does.

The bold isn't true and you know it. Kamui isn't the only harmful technique Kakashi has. The most harmful? Yes.

Reevaluating, I do believe it is possible for some of Itachi's caliber to shunshin out of Kakashi's line of sight in order to prevent initial shit stopming, but I'm not entirely sure how well clone feinting would work considering Kakashi doesn't recklessly use Kamui.