MS Kakashi vs. MS Itachi

[LustyLover]

Because its clear Kakashi is in a different league than Itachi at this point. I'm sure by the end of the manga he will surpass the sannin, if he already hasn't, that is.

I respect your opinion. I want no hurt feels here.

 

[Bronze]

Databook stats are invalid at this point. The latest databook was released in 2008, Itachi vs Sasuke. Time has passed and Kakashi improved in stamina, speed, intelligence and Kamui.​

 

[LustyLover]

Databook stats are invalid at this point. The latest databook was released in 2008, Itachi vs Sasuke. Time has passed and Kakashi improved in stamina, speed, intelligence and Kamui.​

Then what is to say Itachi's hasn't, seeing as how his most recent alive battle was him against someone he wasn't even attempting to defeat?

 

[Black Wolf]

Then what is to say Itachi's hasn't, seeing as how his most recent alive battle was him against someone he wasn't even attempting to defeat?

What are you talking about?

Itachi died at exactly the same time DB III was released. He has no opportunity to improve post mortem.

 

[lanakui8]

4.5, meaning he's lower in Itachi in speed and also doesn't possess enough speed feats that react to a blitz 3T Sasuke couldn't react to (someone who is superior in both speed and reaction time). Also, there's no difference in his speed from "300 chapters ago" and now.

when did 3T Sasuke fail to react to itachi's blitz? Also, there sure is a difference between speed from 300 chapters ago and now, considering his feats. Characters have been shown to increase their databook scores over time ya know.

Show me feats of him Kamuing a Gedo arm instantly without Kyuubi chakra.

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[LustyLover]

What are you talking about?

Itachi died at exactly the same time DB III was released. He has no opportunity to improve post mortem.

I didn't say that. I said we have no proof that the battle he died from was him unleashing his full speed because we all know he wasn't fully trying in that battle and purposely lost it.

 

[Bronze]

Then what is to say Itachi's hasn't, seeing as how his most recent alive battle was him against someone he wasn't even attempting to defeat?

Obito said: Itachi still pushed Sasuke to his limits. Even if he didn't kill him, he still had to use his strongest Jutsu. And until Itachi shows better feats than what he already showed all this time, his physical prowess remains the same.​

 

[LustyLover]

when did 3T Sasuke fail to react to itachi's blitz? Also, there sure is a difference between speed from 300 chapters ago and now, considering his feats. Characters have been shown to increase their databook scores over time ya know.

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When did he fail to react to Itachi? Here

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as well as multiple other encounters.

"Almost in an instant" is enough reaction time for Itachi to react to it, seeing as the Sharingan can, as Dimitri thankfully stated, predict future attacks and, when in combination with Itachi's perfect 5 in speed, be sufficient enough to provide the user breathing room to escape from the opposition's attacks.

Btw, wasn't that Kakashi with Kyuubi chakra? Show me a scan otherwise.

 

[Black Wolf]

I didn't say that.

Yes you did. In response to Dimitri stating "Kakashi improved", you said "what is to say Itachi hasn't?", to which I replied by saying that it is impossible for a dead person to improve.

I said we have no proof that the battle he died from was him unleashing his full speed because we all know he wasn't fully trying in that battle and purposely lost it.

His databook stats aren't going to change based on whether or not he held back. His databook stats are based on his physical attributes, not his state of mind.

Btw, wasn't that Kakashi with Kyuubi chakra? Show me a scan otherwise.

What are you talking about? Kakashi's Kyuubi shroud disappeared the second he entered Kamui dimension to fight Obito.

 

[LustyLover]

Yes you did. In response to Dimitri stating "Kakashi improved", you said "what is to say Itachi hasn't?", to which I replied by saying that it is impossible for a dead person to improve.



His databook stats aren't going to change based on whether or not he held back. His databook stats are based on his physical attributes.



What are you talking about? Kakashi's Kyuubi shroud disappeared the second he entered Kamui dimension to fight Obito.

Did you not read the rest of my statement? "Then what is to say Itachi's hasn't, seeing as how his most recent alive battle was him against someone he wasn't even attempting to defeat?"

That is what I said.

The databook is flawed as well, though. I only pulled them out since someone else deigned to.

 

[Black Wolf]

Did you not read the rest of my statement? Then what is to say Itachi's hasn't, seeing as how his most recent alive battle was him against someone he wasn't even attempting to defeat?

Sure I did. Not seeing how it changes the definition of your statement. Elaborating on a false statement does not make said statement correct.

The databook is flawed as well, though. I only pulled them out since someone else deigned to.

Databook is just as "flawed" as the manga is, considering Kishimoto is responsible for writing both.

 

[LustyLover]

Yes you did. In response to Dimitri stating "Kakashi improved", you said "what is to say Itachi hasn't?", to which I replied by saying that it is impossible for a dead person to improve.



His databook stats aren't going to change based on whether or not he held back. His databook stats are based on his physical attributes, not his state of mind.



What are you talking about? Kakashi's Kyuubi shroud disappeared the second he entered Kamui dimension to fight Obito.

Then show me. Maybe I'm forgetting. Not that it matters. I already explained how it doesn't matter.

 

[lanakui8]

When did he fail to react to Itachi? Here

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as well as multiple other encounters.

Itachi didn't even blitz sasuke. He used the crows to avert sasuke's attention in order to land tsukuyomi on him. appearing in front of sasuke and kicking him all happened in the tsukuyomi world as we see when sasuke breaks out,

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"Almost in an instant" is enough reaction time for Itachi to react to it, seeing as the Sharingan can, as Dimitri thankfully stated, predict future attacks and, when in combination with Itachi's perfect 5 in speed, be sufficient enough to provide the user breathing room to escape from the opposition's attacks.

I didn't say itachi can't react to it, but he's definitely not physically reacting to the point where he dodges it. Kakashi's use of kamui in that instant was far faster than any use of amaterasu in the manga, and obviously no one is dodging amy unless you have Ei level speed or higher.

Btw, wasn't that Kakashi with Kyuubi chakra? Show me a scan otherwise.

kakashi has no chakra cloak around him while the rest of the alliance who are actually powered by kyuubi chakra have are fully shrouded. Kakashi isn't using kyuubi chakra.

 

[LustyLover]

Sure I did. Not seeing how it changes the definition of your statement. Elaborating on a false statement does not make said statement correct.



Databook is just as "flawed" as the manga is, considering Kishimoto is responsible for writing both.

It's not a false statement. I said that since we've never seen Itachi going all-out speed wise, how can we properly assume what his full capabilities in the speed department is? Read a little bit.

It is flawed, and I believe that is irrefutable, unless you believe Itachi's speed is as fast as Minato's since they both have perfect 5's in speed.

 

[Black Wolf]

Then show me. Maybe I'm forgetting. Not that it matters. I already explained how it doesn't matter.

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Then gone the very next panel.

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[Bronze]

Keep up the good fight, HolyEyes.​

 

[LustyLover]

Itachi didn't even blitz sasuke. He used the crows to avert sasuke's attention in order to land tsukuyomi on him. appearing in front of sasuke and kicking him all happened in the tsukuyomi world as we see when sasuke breaks out,

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I didn't say itachi can't react to it, but he's definitely not physically reacting to the point where he dodges it. Kakashi's use of kamui in that instant was far faster than any use of amaterasu in the manga, and obviously no one is dodging amy unless you have Ei level speed or higher.


kakashi has no chakra cloak around him while the rest of the alliance who are actually powered by kyuubi chakra have are fully shrouded. Kakashi isn't using kyuubi chakra.

And yeah, perhaps he didn't, but Sasuke clearly thought so for he did not break out at that moment or at least state he was aware it was Itachi's Genjutsu. And if he believed he could do it, why can't he when he already has a perfect score in speed? His speed of Kamui doesn't matter. Itachi has full intel of both its speed and capabilities.

 

[Strict]

It's clear that Itachi is the superior combatant. He is even more intelligent and skilled, both feat wise and according to the databook.

There is no progress of Kakashi. His skills were inferior to Itachi in pt. 2 according to databook and feats, but people thing that Kakashi made a bigger progress from pt. 2 to the war than from pt.1 to pt.2, what would be 2-3 years of training. His only progress was Kamui during pt.2.

People are confused, they take the short fight of Kakashi and his team against a clone of Itachi with 30% of his strength, who merely tried to hold them back from the Akatsuki hideout, as a measurement for Itachi's full power and think that Kakashi is superior to Itachi's skills as he managed to make one Bunshin feint to counter Genjutsu. As if Itachi couldn't use feints, Kagebunshin, doesn't possess insane speed and strong Genjutsu, which he can cast on various ways. If people actually debate whether Kakashi is more skilled, they skipped through Itachi's moments.

And yeah, Kakashi has one Mangekyo technique which is Kamui, Itachi has 3; Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susanoo.

Stop debating with this Dimitri, he only talks BS.

 

[Black Wolf]

It's not a false statement. I said that since we've never seen Itachi going all-out speed wise, how can we properly assume what his full capabilities in the speed department is? Read a little bit.

I read, and you are still wrong. How much of their power a person uses has no bearing on what score they get.

Orochimaru and Hiruzen used no Genjutsu in their entire manga showing, yet both got 5's. By your logic, they should have gotten 0's.

It is flawed, and I believe that is irrefutable, unless you believe Itachi's speed is as fast as Minato's since they both have perfect 5's in speed.

People sharing a roof tier stat doesn't make it wrong. It just means the databook stats are not assigned relative to other character's stat scores. Fighters can both be experts at something; it has no bearing on which expert is better than the other. Kurenai, Itachi, and Tayuya all have 5's in Genjutsu. Itachi being the best doesn't mean the others don't deserve 5's. It just means the others are experts as well, just not as good as Itachi.

Not to mention that I don't believe Minato's running speed (i.e. Hiraishin excluded) is that much higher than Itachi's. Minato doesn't even have a databook stat set, either.

 

[LustyLover]

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Then gone the very next panel.

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You showed me the Kyuubi shroud on him and then it leaving as well as him. However, you did not show me him using Kamui with the Kyuubi cloak not present.