MS Kakashi or MS Itachi

[ChocolateVanilla]

There's no speculation here, just pure facts.

And yet he fell to Tsukuyomi. I don't even...

Really? At this point, you're probably trolling me because I countered your useless and fanboyish arguments with quite ease. But fun though.

Comparing 3T to MS again I see.
So yeah, we're done here

 

[Romy9]

Comparing 3T to MS again I see.
So yeah, we're done here

Yeah, because he doesn't have an Uchiha body. Did you read that right? Try again. I know you did, but still, try again. Let it sink.

 

[Sound]

This is a pretty intricate match up, actually.

IMO, it's dependent on Kakashi's speed with Kamui, and how many times he can use it before straining himself. If he's faster than Amaterasu (usage speed) and can use it 2-3 times in rapid succession, he could take the win.

It gets confusing during the War arc to evaluate this. How many times did Kakashi use Kamui in total? How many times was that due to Kyuubi chakra? These are questions that need to be ironed out before determining which feats are rightfully his and his alone.

Itachi's genjutsu (except for Tsukuyomi) won't work on MS Kakashi, so there's a big disadvantage for him right there. And Kakashi probably won't make the same mistake he did in their fight in Part 1, so Itachi won't be able to catch him as easily.

Anyways, if this was against pre-War arc Kakashi, it's Itachi's win. So unless he has the improvements I listed, the outcome wouldn't change.

Both Itachi and Kakashi need time to cast Amaterasu and Kamui.

Although Kakashi improved it when he warped his kunai that scratched Tobi's mask and
when he used Dual Kamui with Obito to send him to the other dimension with Naruto.
He found the counter for genjutsu ; clones. [No jutsu works on me twice - Kakashi]

He used Kamui for Naruto's clone, an infused Lightning blade shuriken and was about
to a last resort to warp 5 bijuu dama big enough to vaporise mountains [

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Also the VIZ scan says that someone with the normal Sharingan you can make some resistance to Tsukuyomi
but only someone with a Sharingan Kekkei Genkai [probably everyone who has a MS]can break it.

Spoiler

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[Aikor]

Comparing 3T to MS again I see.
So yeah, we're done here

Didnt u hear when he said "How long can a person who doesnt posses the kekkei genkai deal with this" tht proves it tht it can only be resisted even a little by someone who possesed the kekkei genkai.since obito has given kakashi the sharingan tht doesn mean he posseses it

 

[Rιver]

Both Itachi and Kakashi need time to cast Amaterasu and Kamui.

Although Kakashi improved it when he warped his kunai that scratched Tobi's mask and
when he used Dual Kamui with Obito to send him to the other dimension with Naruto.
He found the counter for genjutsu clones. [No jutsu works on me twice-Kakashi]

He used Kamui for Naruto's clone, an infused Lightning blade shuriken and was about
to a last resort to warp 5 bijuu dama big enough to vaporise mountains [

You must be registered for see links

]

Also the VIZ scan says that with the normal Sharingan you can make some resistance to Tsukuyomi
but only someone with a Sharingan Kekke Genkai [probably everyone who has a MS]can break it.

Spoiler

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Sharingan is no kekkei genkai, it is the ability of the kekkei genkai. More simply, kekkei genkai ability. The kekkei genkai is the blood flowing through the veins that allows ninja to perform abilities other cannot, bestowed by their ancestors or clans. Hence why Itachi labeled kekkei genkai as separate to Sharingan, Sasuke broke it without MS and other manga translators translated as those who carry the same bloodline as him. Kekkei genkai is literally bloodline limit, when translated raw. Kakashi does not possess the prerequisites to fulfill the requirements required to break through the Tsukuyomi.​

 

[Sound]

Sharingan is no kekkei genkai, it is the ability of the kekkei genkai. More simply, kekkei genkai ability. The kekkei genkai is the blood flowing through the veins that allows ninja to perform abilities other cannot, bestowed by their ancestors or clans. Hence why Itachi labeled kekkei genkai as separate to Sharingan, Sasuke broke it without MS and other manga translators translated as those who carry the same bloodline as him. Kekkei genkai is literally bloodline limit, when translated raw. Kakashi does not possess the prerequisites to fulfill the requirements required to break through the Tsukuyomi.​

The sharingan itself is classified as a Kekkei Genkai in the databook. You are right about the blood thing though. Going by the datebook sharingan is a Kekkei Genkai.​

 

[Magatsu Izanagi]

Both Itachi and Kakashi need time to cast Amaterasu and Kamui.

Although Kakashi improved it when he warped his kunai that scratched Tobi's mask and
when he used Dual Kamui with Obito to send him to the other dimension with Naruto.
He found the counter for genjutsu ; clones. [No jutsu works on me twice - Kakashi]

He used Kamui for Naruto's clone, an infused Lightning blade shuriken and was about
to a last resort to warp 5 bijuu dama big enough to vaporise mountains [

You must be registered for see links

]

Also the VIZ scan says that with the normal Sharingan you can make some resistance to Tsukuyomi
but only someone with a Sharingan Kekkei Genkai [probably everyone who has a MS]can break it.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Dem #mangafacts

I guess it's dependant on which one is faster. If Itachi uses Amaterasu (provided it's slightly faster than Kamui), Kakashi is forced to use Kamui to get rid of the flames. That brings him down to 1 effective use of Kamui left, because with the 3rd he would die (as Gai said in the manga page you showed, plus he was suspicious that he wouldn't be able to pull off all 5 of them) and the fight would be a draw if he hits Itachi with it.

Then there's other points to consider. If Itachi brings out Susano'o, can Kakashi warp both him and the Susano'o together, in one attack? Or does he have to get through Susano'o first, as a sort of "layer"? I think it would be the latter.

About genjutsu, you may be right. Though if Itachi catches him in it, I doubt Kakashi could instantly break it. So in that time Itachi could do some damage via the mental torture or physically attacking him while he is caught.

 

[Rιver]

The sharingan itself is classified as a Kekkei Genkai in the databook. You are right about the blood thing though. Going by the datebook sharingan is a Kekkei Genkai.​

I've never witnessed a character or the databook referring a technique or ability to be the kekkei genkai itself. If you could link me the scan, I could perhaps read through it. But I'm sure they've only referred the Sharingan as a dōjutsu.​

 

[wael reda]

i think they are in the same level but kakashi would win in a fight high diff

 

[Sound]

Dem #mangafacts

I guess it's dependant on which one is faster. If Itachi uses Amaterasu (provided it's slightly faster than Kamui), Kakashi is forced to use Kamui to get rid of the flames. That brings him down to 1 effective use of Kamui left, because with the 3rd he would die (as Gai said in the manga page you showed, plus he was suspicious that he wouldn't be able to pull off all 5 of them) and the fight would be a draw if he hits Itachi with it.

Then there's other points to consider. If Itachi brings out Susano'o, can Kakashi warp both him and the Susano'o together, in one attack? Or does he have to get through Susano'o first, as a sort of "layer"? I think it would be the latter.

About genjutsu, you may be right. Though if Itachi catches him in it, I doubt Kakashi could instantly break it. So in that time Itachi could do some damage via the mental torture or physically attacking him while he is caught.

You know I always use mangaphax

No I don't think he can warp all the Susanoo at once.

1. Because the bigger the warp more time it takes to transport to the other dimension
2. Itachi can use the time to Amaterasu him

However he can just warp to Itachi's placement.
Kakashi needs to exhaust him to the point he can't afford a direct Amaterasu on him
Tsukuyomi will cause mental strain but he has some resistance to it
Although he I'm pretty sure he won't fight him in CQC looking at his eyes.​

I've never witnessed a character or the databook referring a technique or ability to be the kekkei genkai itself. If you could link me the scan, I could perhaps read through it. But I'm sure they've only referred the Sharingan as a dōjutsu.​

No the sharingan itself is classified not the technique.

It's in spanish ._. [

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]​

 

[wael reda]

No I don't think he can warp all the Susanoo at once.

1. Because the bigger the warp more time it takes to warp
2. Itachi can use the time to Amaterasu him

kakashi warped the gedo’s whole arm in less than a second

itachi’s full susano is smaller than gedo’s hand let alone gedo’s whole arm

 

[Selan]

War Arc Kakashi is faster, more reactive, better in taijutsu and generally CQC/short range combat, has more chakra and better tactical feats than Itachi. Kakashi knows about Susanoo, Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, and can counter the first two with a faster Kamui, and avoid the third avoiding eye contact. Itachi can't do anything against Kamui and gets warped. Kamui GG.

 

[Magatsu Izanagi]

Here's the English translation of the Sharingan page from the DB, from one of the first people to have translated the pages IIRC.

Spoiler

Databook I p.192-193

Kekkei Genkai: Sharingan
Users: Hatake Kakashi, Uchiha Sasuke
Support, Short, Mid, Long ranges. Rank: none.

Main text

The Kekkei Genkai withheld in the blood of Konoha's finest lineage, the Uchiha clan. This unique ability, manifested only in a mere fraction [of people] even within the clan, is characterized by comma*-shaped markings in one's pupils. On top of an all-encompassing insight and powerful hypnosis, these eyes are hosts to a jutsu-copying ability that memorizes the techniques their gaze falls upon in an instant, and replicates them. Just like Kakashi who, in his fight against Zabuza, used it in such a way as to look like he could predict the future; according to their methods of use, the field of variations the caster can apply to their offense and defense expands indefinitely!!

The power of insight hidden inside these eyes discerns the mechanics of all ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu without restriction, putting it above the crowd even by doujutsu standards. Furthermore, one can even see the patterns of their opponent's movements and attacks, striking firmly without fear of a counter-attack, avoiding lethal blows when defending, evading from offensive moves and so forth: one's combat ability is significantly improved in all kinds of aspects. An awe-inspiring ability for which the "Clairvoyant Eyes of Heaven**" would be an appropriate name indeed!!

The Sharingan's true power, in addition to the threat posed by its insight... is its copying ability, that of making one's own any technique one sets eyes upon. Chakra, handseals... all the principles bringing the jutsu into existence will be recorded into the caster's memory in the blink of an eye, making its utilization possible. Of course, the necessary volume of chakra and physical ability requirements must be met, but should one find themselves in some kind of dire situation, the Uchiha blood will demonstrate its accumulated experience, and never will those who have inherited it know any limits (tn: i.e even if you can't use the jutsu you've copied, the info will still prove most useful provided you can rub two brain cells together)!!

Captions

-The Uchiha clan's God-given, clairvoyant doujutsu, transmitted by blood!!

-Seeing through something and duplicating its principles for oneself.

Picture comments

-The Sharingan in Kakashi's left eye. With that power, he's copied over one thousand techniques.

-Sasuke's Sharingan slightly differs from Kakashi's. Is it because it's not complete yet, or is there something else (tn: just goes to show you Kishi will squeeze all the mystery he can out of any situation, LOL)?

-Reading through countless illusions in an instant. The jutsu's fundamentals, chakra amount and the like: those eyes will reflect matters in their entirety!!

-Receiving a taijutsu blow only once, he makes it his own move!!*By now, I trust everyone is familiar with the word "tomoe". For those who somehow aren't, Wikipedia is your friend, folks.
**天眼, or "tengan" can mean heavenly eyes, clairvoyance, or describe that freaky thing the eyes do when someone suffers from convulsions.

kakashi warped the gedo’s whole arm in less than a second

itachi’s full susano is smaller than gedo’s hand let alone gedo’s whole arm

Could you link me to that page? Not because I doubt you, I just want to ascertain the speed of Kamui/size of Gedo's arm.

 

[Inert Brian]

If Kakashi attempts Kamui...then he has to look In Itachi's eyes.

Therefore Kakashi won't attempt Kamui offensively.

Also, is everyone forgetting about Amaterasu? I'm pretty sure that's faster.

 

[Sound]

kakashi warped the gedo’s whole arm in less than a second

itachi’s full susano is smaller than gedo’s hand let alone gedo’s whole arm

Maybe you're right. Akatsuki members stood in GM fingers when Genryu Kyufujin was used.​

Here's the English translation of the Sharingan page from the DB, from one of the first people to have translated the pages IIRC.

Thanks, it is classified as a Kekkei Genkai but it also says it is held by Uchiha

Anyway the Databook is never 100 % credible so the other guy may be right.​

 

[Magatsu Izanagi]

If Kakashi attempts Kamui...then he has to look In Itachi's eyes.

Therefore Kakashi won't attempt Kamui offensively.

Also, is everyone forgetting about Amaterasu? I'm pretty sure that's faster.

He has to look him in the eye? What if he looks at him in the chest/heart and aims the Kamui there?

And kotori and I have been mentioning Amaterasu. It seems they're both comparable in terms of activation/striking speed. If you have scans showing that it's faster, please share.

Thanks, it is classified as a Kekkei Genkai but it also says it is held by Uchiha

Anyway the Databook is never 100 % credible so the other guy may be right.​

True. Databooks are good to back up arguments, as long as there isn't any contradiction with the manga.

 

[abouda123]

1 MS Kakashi surpassed Itachi when the war started . he wins it mid def

 

[EZQ]

Okay i saw some arguments here that are a lil bit wrong.

Amaterasu is faster than Kamui <--- Totally fake, Kamui has showed to work beyond Obito's sight capabilitie. Kamui is way faster.

Kakashi can't warp the whole susano at once <---- TOTALLY FAKE

Spoiler

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The gedo mazo's arm is aroun susano sized if not bigger

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Kakashi wrecks and wrecks hard.

 

[super yang]

Kakashi has more than ''0'' votes?!?
Disgusting...