[Discussion] MS jutsus and Susanoo

[Meowazziel]

Obito once said, when he posed as Madara and we knew him as Tobi, that Susanoo is rare.
This means that not everyone can unlock it easily.

Itachi.
Itachi=Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.
Double ms.
He has Susanoo.

Sasuke.
Sasuke is Enton Kagutsuchi and Amaterasu.
Double ms.
He has Susanoo.

Madara.
Madara is ? and ?.
What would be his MS jutsus?
Tsukuyomi? and ? (the moon seemed to play a big part in the battle between Hashirama and Madara when they were still alive. Maybe his ms has to do with the moon?).
He has Susanoo (perfect Susanoo).

Obito.
Obito(if he had both eyes) is Kamui close range with intangible + Kamui long range.
Would he have Susanoo if he had the double ms?

Shisui.
Shisui is Koto amatsukami and ?.
Would he have Susanoo? or does he only have 1 ms technique?

EMS users might have an extra technique btw.

What do you think?
I know you cant find the answers as facts in the manga, but I would like to discuss this anyway.
Lets use our imagination a bit as well.


EDIT:



There are still lot of questions open.
Questions like what are Madara his MS techniques,
did Shisui only have Kotoamatsukami, would he have Susanoo,
does Obito have 2 different Kamui jutsus if he had both eyes, just as Sasuke has 2 types of Amaterasu jutsus (Amaterasu and Enton Kagutsuchi), would Obito have Susanoo if he had both eyes?

Lets discuss .

 

[VongolaX]

Obito once said, when he posed as Madara and we knew him as Tobi, that Susanoo is rare.
This means that not everyone can unlock it easily.

Now some people have Susanoo.

Itachi=Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.
He has Susanoo.

Sasuke is Enton Kagutsuchi and Amaterasu.
He has Susanoo.

Madara is ? and ?. What would be his MS jutsus? Tsukuyomi? and ? (the moon seemed to play a big part in the battle between Hashirama and Madara when they were still alive. Maybe his ms has to do with the moon?).
He has Susanoo (perfect Susanoo).

Obito(if he had both eyes) is Kamui close range with intangible + Kamui long range.
Would he have Susanoo?

Shisui is Koto amatsukami and ?.
Would he have Susanoo?

What do you think?
I know you cant find the answers as facts in the manga, but I would like to discuss this anyway.
Lets use our imagination a bit as well.

Just putting it out there, Obito can use close/long range kumai with one eye

 

[adeshina365]

Tobi did say that Susanoo was a rare ability, but when you think about it, isn't the Mangekyou sharingan rare in and of itself? The amount of MS users can be counted on two hands.

Every MS user (with two MS eyes) having Susanoo wouldn't contradict Tobi's (Obito's) statement of rarity.

 

[Meowazziel]

Just putting it out there, Obito can use close/long range kumai with one eye

When did he use long range kamui?

Tobi did say that Susanoo was a rare ability, but when you think about it, isn't the Mangekyou sharingan rare in and of itself? The amount of MS users can be counted on two hands.

Every MS user (with two MS eyes) having Susanoo wouldn't contradict Tobi's (Obito's) statement of rarity.

I would find the statement a bit useless if every MS user has Susanoo.
No point in telling it is rare. He could tell it is rare for someone to unlock MS.
I get what you mean though. Crossed my mind as well.

 

[avenged sevenfold]

Didn't sasuke have tsukuyomi??

 

[VongolaX]

When did he use long range kamui?I would find the statement a bit useless if every MS user has Susanoo.
No point in telling it is rare. He could tell it is rare for someone to unlock MS.
I get what you mean though. Crossed my mind as well.

When kakashi used long-range kumai on gedo's neck

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Obito countered it with his kumai

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That's how kakashi figured out what type of technique/sharingan Tobi was using......That's why he said, "How can this be."

 

[abiolaa1]

Nice theory, and i think u are right.
Obito does not have long range,
For those saying he has, that not thru he only counter kamui by using the same eye to block kakashi
Also i think as an addition to obito ms,
1 he has d ability to go to any location with out using any seals.
2 he bring out objects or people from kamui dimemsion, while standing like he did with danso guards, like the with the star kunia.

 

[Meowazziel]

Bring in the imagination and theories people!


There are still lot of questions open.
Questions like what are Madara his MS techniques,
did Shisui only have Kotoamatsukami, would he have Susanoo,
does Obito have 2 different Kamui jutsus if he had both eyes, just as Sasuke has 2 types of Amaterasu jutsus (Amaterasu and Enton Kagutsuchi), would Obito have Susanoo if he had both eyes?

Lets discuss .

 

[Draxus]

I think you need 2 different MS techniques to get Susanno'O and I think in the past it was more common for MS users to be like Shuisui with the same exact ability in each eye.

I'm pretty sure Obito has the exact same Kumai as Kakashi he just uses it way better. Close Kumai as you call it is the most masterful use of it. Kakashi's uses it long range because he hasn't mastered the technique.

Obito used long range only when he absolutely had to, when he need to cancel out Kakashi's. The reason for this is because he can't use it on himself when he does and I think it's far more advantageous to do it that way.

However Kakashi has used it close range or on himself rather, when he had kyuubi chakra. This proves he can use the close range version. I assume it take way more chakra, the type that Kakashi just doesn't have, and due to it being his eye and his zetsu body, Obito does.

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This happened right after Kurama replenished his chakra

 

[Meowazziel]

Madara.
I think Madara can rewind time for a few seconds (why put that in a naruto game video footage, if he cant?).
Madara has Tsukuyomi as well I think. Why would he use the Tsukuyomi name for his plan, if he doesnt have
the jutsu? Maybe his Tsukuyomi is a bit different from Itachi though. Madara his Tsukuyomi would be involving the moon, even without being a jinc. The moon got quite some panel time in the end of the Hashirama vs Madara fight (where Madara got his hands on Hashi's dna). Madara seemed to cast something from his eye, in the end of the battle.

If Madara doesnt have Tsukuyomi and expects to get it from being a Juubi jinc, than I dont know for sure what kind of MS jutsus he has. I wouldnt be surprised if he has Kotoamatsukami and another MS jutsu.

Obito and Shisui.
Obito and Shisui not having Susanoo, due to only having one Technique, sounds plausible.
Unlike Sasuke his amaterasu and enton kagatsuchi, both of Obito's eyes use the name Kamui.
This would make Susanoo more rare if not everyone with ms can unlock it.

I find it a bit odd how Obito uses the Tsukuyomi plan name as well, just as Madara (who probably came up with the name).
Obito doesnt seem to have Tsukuyomi, or maybe he gets access to it, by being the Juubi jinc.

I think you need 2 different MS techniques to get Susanno'O and I think in the past it was more common for MS users to be like Shuisui with the same exact ability in each eye.

I'm pretty sure Obito has the exact same Kumai as Kakashi he just uses it way better. Close Kumai as you call it is the most masterful use of it. Kakashi's uses it long range because he hasn't mastered the technique.

Obito used long range only when he absolutely had to, when he need to cancel out Kakashi's. The reason for this is because he can't use it on himself when he does and I think it's far more advantageous to do it that way.

However Kakashi has used it close range or on himself rather, when he had kyuubi chakra. This proves the close range version takes more chakra, the type that Kakashi just doesn't have and due to it being his eye and his zetsu body Obito does.

I dont think Obito can use long range. Why bother touching people to teleport them in your Kamui if you can do it from range? When he canceled Kakashi's Kamui, he probably did so by some other means. Like through the Gedo or he can just only cancel it from range but not use it from range.

I can imagine that teleporting yourself is more difficult and requires more chakra.

Some users in the past having only one ms technique and therefore no susanoo seems to be possible. It would make Susanoo more rare.

 

[Draxus]

Madara.
I think Madara can rewind time for a few seconds (why put that in a naruto game video footage, if he cant?).
Madara has Tsukuyomi as well I think. Why would he use the Tsukuyomi name for his plan, if he doesnt have
the jutsu? Maybe his Tsukuyomi is a bit different from Itachi though. Madara his Tsukuyomi would be involving the moon, even without being a jinc. The moon got quite some panel time in the end of the Hashirama vs Madara fight (where Madara got his hands on Hashi's dna). Madara seemed to cast something from his eye, in the end of the battle.

1. The video isn't canon.
2. That effect was to illustrate the sharingan's ability to predict opponents moves. The spinning and glowing was for dramatic effect.

If Madara doesnt have Tsukuyomi and expects to get it from being a Juubi jinc, than I dont know for sure what kind of MS jutsus he has. I wouldnt be surprised if he has Kotoamatsukami and another MS jutsu.

I too think it's a separate jutsu from Tsukuyomi.

I dont think Obito can use long range. Why bother touching people to teleport them in your Kamui if you can do it from range? When he canceled Kakashi's Kamui, he probably did so by some other means. Like through the Gedo or he can just only cancel it from range but not use it from range.

Long range takes more time than close range. It seems to warp things no matter the size instantly, while the larger the object the longer it takes with long range. Not to mention the obvious defensive advantage. Also since he can teleport to his opponent, distance isn't an issue (I know he doesn't teleport in the traditional sense).

I see you have no counter for Kakashi using close Kamui. So you have to assume if Kakashi can use close, Obito can use long.

I can imagine that teleporting yourself is more difficult and requires more chakra.

Yeah but it's Obito's eye so it takes less chakra for him to use it on top of the fact he's full of Senju dna. The extra expense is negligible to the advantage of using the more versatile and quicker version.

 

[Jako98146]

I think Madara can predict the future to some extent(not based on game footage)it's just something I figured he could do for some time now based on observation on how he seems to be one step ahead of everyone with his plans, and the way he chose people for his plan IE, an Uchiha who just unlocked a 2 tome sharingan and a baby Uzumaki from the Rain village

 

[Senju Bean]

Susano is rare? It's the most common MS tech. There are 3 of them!! Only one set of eyes possess Kamui. Only one set possess Koto. Most likely, only two sets possess Amateratsu.

 

[Meowazziel]

Spoiler

1. The video isn't canon.
2. That effect was to illustrate the sharingan's ability to predict opponents moves. The spinning and glowing was for dramatic effect.



I too think it's a separate jutsu from Tsukuyomi.



Long range takes more time than close range. It seems to warp things no matter the size instantly, while the larger the object the longer it takes with long range. Not to mention the obvious defensive advantage. Also since he can teleport to his opponent, distance isn't an issue (I know he doesn't teleport in the traditional sense).

I see you have no counter for Kakashi using close Kamui. So you have to assume if Kakashi can use close, Obito can use long.



Yeah but it's Obito's eye so it takes less chakra for him to use it on top of the fact he's full of Senju dna. The extra expense is negligible to the advantage of using the more versatile and quicker version.

Good explanation about the video not being cannon and how the sharingan predicted the attack, instead of the MS being a rewind. I find this plausible.

I have a counter for Kakashi using close range Kamui on himself.
Long range includes close range, but close range doesnt include long range.
Next to this, Kakashi maybe didnt have the chakra or skills yet for a selfkamui.

I think Madara can predict the future to some extent(not based on game footage)it's just something I figured he could do for some time now based on observation on how he seems to be one step ahead of everyone with his plans, and the way he chose people for his plan IE, an Uchiha who just unlocked a 2 tome sharingan and a baby Uzumaki from the Rain village

Yeah maybe he can.

Susano is rare? It's the most common MS tech. There are 3 of them!! Only one set of eyes possess Kamui. Only one set possess Koto. Most likely, only two sets possess Amateratsu.

Obito said Susanoo is rare. I know we have seen 3 Uchiha's with it already, but apparently in general (with the unknown Uchiha's included), Susanoo is rare.

 

[Senju Bean]

Wow, then there must have been a lot of MS users.

 

[Meowazziel]

Wow, then there must have been a lot of MS users.

Dunno if sarcasm, but Shisui, Obito, Madara, Izuna, Sasuke, Itachi (3 have Susanoo that we know about, out of 6). Tobirama knew about Kagutsuchi, so he has seen this before. If he had seen it only from Izuna for example, than he probably would have referred to him I think.
So there are some unknown ms users and it might be rare, if you have the double mangekyou, that you unlock the third power Susanoo.

 

[Senju Bean]

Imo, rare means less than 10% of MS users would have it. So there should have been at least 30 MS users in history. We kinda can guess there wasn't that many since the immensely resourceful Kabuto would have revived some of them because, you know, MS techs are usually OP.

 

[Meowazziel]

Imo, rare means less than 10% of MS users would have it. So there should have been at least 30 MS users in history. We kinda can guess there wasn't that many since the immensely resourceful Kabuto would have revived some of them because, you know, MS techs are usually OP.

I am not saying that what you write cant be true. I am just mentioning what Obito said. Btw before Sasuke unlocked Susanoo, the only 2 known people which had done so as well (only known to according to the manga) were Madara and Itachi, so that is kinda rare I guess. Madara was from an old generation and considered dead and that meant Itachi was the only one in this time with the ability. That is rare. I can imagine where the statement rare comes from, if you look at it this way. I can agree that the percentage 30% is not rare.