Most Hyped , yet Most underrated shinobi .

[Myogen]

I think every character with a large fandom gets both overrated and underrated.

 

[Dantee]

Are you kidding easily most overrated character on the base along with blonde blue eyed wonder Minato.

 

[KingHashirama]

I'm not actually going to waste time explaining what I believe to be incredibly obvious. Kishimoto has contradicted himself time and time again when it comes to hype, I could talk about how 'everyone pales in comparison to Minato yada yada', but until he has feats to back said hype up, it's unreliable. Neither of Hashirama's feats put him on the level of Edo Madara.

i Hope you do realize MAdara is the guy who was alive to see Nagato... Basically he has seen Minato.. ...


And that is what im saying.. we have not even seen his real power yet.

Btw Kishimoto has supported his hype everytime.. Sarutobi aka "God of shinobi".. why?? because he knew all of the leaf's jutsu, Mastered every combat form.. All feats that back up his hype..Strongest Kage of his time.. BUT remember , when all this happened.. Hashirama had no important role in the story.

"Everyone fails in comparison to Minato".. That came from a guy who had not seen the Second or the First Hokage... =D.

 

[Waltz]

Are you kidding easily most overrated character on the base along with blonde blue eyed wonder Minato.

I think every character with a large fandom gets both overrated and underrated.

This ^

 

[Trollasaur]

Sarutobi.

 

[yuan of cruxis]

Sasori

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People thinks he weak, because of his lost to Chiyo and sakura in which he lost on purpose
And yet he defeated Sadaime Kazekage(revered as strongest Kazekage)
When this guy had part and became famous in the 3rd Great Ninja war
And took over a nation
As well as a master puppeteer

Also the 1st to create human puppets

 

[Pretium]

You seem like you're suggesting he could overcome Edo Madara, which is just no-no.

Edo Madara Said It Himself

 

[EliteKakashi]

Edo Madara Said It Himself

It would be implying that Hashirama can beat himself, and rinnegan Madara all by himself, after struggling vs EMS Madara. Lets get real.

False hype, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TheSages456]

It would be implying that Hashirama can beat himself, and rinnegan Madara all by himself, after struggling vs EMS Madara. Lets get real.

False hype, nothing more, nothing less.

yup mokuton is all hashirama has. those scrolls he carries around have no kinjutsu or advanced techs in them like it was stated in the manga. hashirama wouldnt be fighting himself. hashiramas mokuton>>>>anyone elses. where are you getting that hashirama cant handle his own technique? thast like saying if sasuke runs at kakashi with chidori, he wouldnt be able to do anything about it.
hashiramas mokuton was able to take down perfect susano. hashiramas mokuton is implied to be at a mountain busting level. madaras is not. hashirama already beat perfect susano which is madaras best technique.

 

[EliteKakashi]

yup mokuton is all hashirama has. those scrolls he carries around have no kinjutsu or advanced techs in them like it was stated in the manga. hashirama wouldnt be fighting himself. hashiramas mokuton>>>>anyone elses. where are you getting that hashirama cant handle his own technique? thast like saying if sasuke runs at kakashi with chidori, he wouldnt be able to do anything about it.
hashiramas mokuton was able to take down perfect susano. hashiramas mokuton is implied to be at a mountain busting level. madaras is not. hashirama already beat perfect susano which is madaras best technique.

Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it?

I never said he couldn't handle his own techniques being used against it. I said he can't handle his own techniques being used against him plus having to fight Madara who has received an upgrade in the form of the rinnegan, an unlimited amount of chakra and a body that can't be killed.

Hashirama is not beating Edo Madara. Not in any possible way.

You show me how Hashirama counters:

His own techniques, as Madara has showed he can use extremely high level mokuton techniques.

Perfect Susanoo

Rinnegen abilities such as shinra tensei and chibaku tensei

AND, to top it all off, someone who can't be killed and has unlimited chakra?

I'll make it quick for you..the answer is he can't.

Hashirama is a almighty powerful ninja, but he's not defeating Edo Madara.

 

[TheSages456]

Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it?

I never said he couldn't handle his own techniques being used against it. I said he can't handle his own techniques being used against him plus having to fight Madara who has received an upgrade in the form of the rinnegan, an unlimited amount of chakra and a body that can't be killed.

Hashirama is not beating Edo Madara. Not in any possible way.

You show me how Hashirama counters:

His own techniques, as Madara has showed he can use extremely high level mokuton techniques.

Perfect Susanoo

Rinnegen abilities such as shinra tensei and chibaku tensei

AND, to top it all off, someone who can't be killed and has unlimited chakra?

I'll make it quick for you..the answer is he can't.

Hashirama is a almighty powerful ninja, but he's not defeating Edo Madara.

sigh.... as we have seen madara cannot use susano and mokuton at the same time.

anything that madara does with mokuton hashirama does it better

he already beat perfect susano

he hasnt used shinra tensei or chibaku tensei. he has used meteors and preta path. meteors wont do anything to hashirama since he beat perfect susano which easily crushed the meteor and did far more damage than it.

hashirama uses a sealing tech from the scroll of seals to seal madara.

those are hashiramas counters. you seem to forget that hashirama didnt only beat madara. he beat madara+complete kyuubi and you do realize that the kyuubi that madara had is twice as strong as narutos right.

 

[EliteKakashi]

sigh.... as we have seen madara cannot use susano and mokuton at the same time.

Erm, what? When was that said? You do realize his wood clones were using susanoo, right?

anything that madara does with mokuton hashirama does it better

You want to prove that? He's already used one of the strongest techniques with it. Good enough for me.

he already beat perfect susano

One, it was never confirmed that Madara used perfect susanoo, two, even if that were the case, he has a lot more to deal with than that now.

he hasnt used shinra tensei or chibaku tensei. he has used meteors and preta path. meteors wont do anything to hashirama since he beat perfect susano which easily crushed the meteor and did far more damage than it.

It doesn't matter if he has or hasn't used it, he has the ability to. You seem to forget that while in Susanoo, he can still use rinnegan techniques, plus he will be using mokuton as well. Hashirama can't counter all that at the same time.

hashirama uses a sealing tech from the scroll of seals to seal madara.

Pretty sure the only thing to ever be confirmed to be in the scroll of seals is Shadow Clones.

those are hashiramas counters. you seem to forget that hashirama didnt only beat madara. he beat madara+complete kyuubi and you do realize that the kyuubi that madara had is twice as strong as narutos right.

He didn't beat Madara + Complete kyuubi. Mito sealed the nine tails in to herself during the battle. We've been over this. Hashi beat EMS Madara. And even then, mokuton is the perfect counter to bijuus, and it was stated that Hashirama could bend bijuus to his will by Yamato.

 

[TheSages456]

Erm, what? When was that said? You do realize his wood clones were using susanoo, right?



You want to prove that? He's already used one of the strongest techniques with it. Good enough for me.



One, it was never confirmed that Madara used perfect susanoo, two, even if that were the case, he has a lot more to deal with than that now.



It doesn't matter if he has or hasn't used it, he has the ability to. You seem to forget that while in Susanoo, he can still use rinnegan techniques, plus he will be using mokuton as well. Hashirama can't counter all that at the same time.



Pretty sure the only thing to ever be confirmed to be in the scroll of seals is Shadow Clones.



He didn't beat Madara + Complete kyuubi. Mito sealed the nine tails in to herself during the battle. We've been over this. Hashi beat EMS Madara. And even then, mokuton is the perfect counter to bijuus, and it was stated that Hashirama could bend bijuus to his will by Yamato.

are the mokuton clones madara or are they clones with his abilities? that is the question. i mean that madara cant use the flower world and susano at the same time.

hashiramas mokuton power is set at a mountain busting level as it beat perfect susano.

common sense says he did and ems madara has perfect susano. also bringing the kyuubi doesnt seem like holding back. its too bad that the other techs he has isnt as powerful as his perfect susano and even that couldnt beat hashirama.

madara hasnt used them. unless you have a scan showing madara using them then this isnt debatable. no madara cant use susano, mokuton and meteors at the same time. please stop this foolishness.

pretty sure the scroll of seals has sealing techs or it would just be called the scroll of jutsus.

im pretty sure that the record says that hashirama beat madara at the valley of the end and not hashirama+mito beat madara at the valley of the end.

 

[EliteKakashi]

are the mokuton clones madara or are they clones with his abilities? that is the question. i mean that madara cant use the flower world and susano at the same time.

They're wood clones..there's nothing questionable...It's quite simple.

And what are you basing that off of? If his wood clones are capable of using susanoo, that completely throws out the theory of mokuton and susanoo can't be used together, which doesn't even make the LEAST bit of sense to begin with.

hashiramas mokuton power is set at a mountain busting level as it beat perfect susano.

And? That doesn't prove anything in regards to Madara. He used one of the most powerful techniques of it. Even if you want to argue that Hashirama's is somehow "better", the gap isn't very big between them. And that gap is surpassed and then he leaves Hashirama in his dust when counting in perfect susanoo and rinnegan.

common sense says he did and ems madara has perfect susano. also bringing the kyuubi doesnt seem like holding back. its too bad that the other techs he has isnt as powerful as his perfect susano and even that couldnt beat hashirama.

Perfect susanoo may not have been able to, but Perfect Susanoo+Mokuton+Deva, Asura, Animal, Outer, Human and Naraka path powers will definitely be able to.

madara hasnt used them. unless you have a scan showing madara using them then this isnt debatable. no madara cant use susano, mokuton and meteors at the same time. please stop this foolishness.

Says who? He used Susanoo and the meteors at the same time. He has unlimited chakra, he can use whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and with whatever he wants.

And yes, he does have them. A person who has the rinnegan can use all six paths abilities, as stated here:

Spoiler

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"He who controls the rinnegan is a master of all six pain's techniques"

pretty sure the scroll of seals has sealing techs or it would just be called the scroll of jutsus.

Going off that logic, Shadow Clones shouldn't be in it. Seals doesn't automatically equal sealing techniques. Hand seals is what it's referring to. And it's a scroll that contains forbidden techniques. The only one we've been confirmed is shadow clones, nothing more, nothing less.

im pretty sure that the record says that hashirama beat madara at the valley of the end and not hashirama+mito beat madara at the valley of the end.

Do I seriously need to post that scan again? I will if I have to, but I prefer not having to repeat myself 500 times. You know, we went over it. "DURING THE FIGHT MITO SEALED THE KYUUBI IN TO HERSELF" you remember that, don't you?

 

[TobisPawn]

sigh.... as we have seen madara cannot use susano and mokuton at the same time.

anything that madara does with mokuton hashirama does it better

he already beat perfect susano

he hasnt used shinra tensei or chibaku tensei. he has used meteors and preta path. meteors wont do anything to hashirama since he beat perfect susano which easily crushed the meteor and did far more damage than it.

hashirama uses a sealing tech from the scroll of seals to seal madara.

those are hashiramas counters. you seem to forget that hashirama didnt only beat madara. he beat madara+complete kyuubi and you do realize that the kyuubi that madara had is twice as strong as narutos right.

You mean Hashirama took control of Kurama and made it Hashirama + Kurama vs EMS Madara?

 

[TheSages456]

They're wood clones..there's nothing questionable...It's quite simple.

And what are you basing that off of? If his wood clones are capable of using susanoo, that completely throws out the theory of mokuton and susanoo can't be used together, which doesn't even make the LEAST bit of sense to begin with.



And? That doesn't prove anything in regards to Madara. He used one of the most powerful techniques of it. Even if you want to argue that Hashirama's is somehow "better", the gap isn't very big between them. And that gap is surpassed and then he leaves Hashirama in his dust when counting in perfect susanoo and rinnegan.



Perfect susanoo may not have been able to, but Perfect Susanoo+Mokuton+Deva, Asura, Animal, Outer, Human and Naraka path powers will definitely be able to.



Says who? He used Susanoo and the meteors at the same time. He has unlimited chakra, he can use whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and with whatever he wants.

And yes, he does have them. A person who has the rinnegan can use all six paths abilities, as stated here:

Spoiler

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"He who controls the rinnegan is a master of all six pain's techniques"



Going off that logic, Shadow Clones shouldn't be in it. Seals doesn't automatically equal sealing techniques. Hand seals is what it's referring to. And it's a scroll that contains forbidden techniques. The only one we've been confirmed is shadow clones, nothing more, nothing less.



Do I seriously need to post that scan again? I will if I have to, but I prefer not having to repeat myself 500 times. You know, we went over it. "DURING THE FIGHT MITO SEALED THE KYUUBI IN TO HERSELF" you remember that, don't you?

madara cant use mokuton and susano at the same time. what do his clones have to do with anything?

hashiramas mokuton is mountain busting and madaras isnt. seems like a pretty obvious gap. hashirama already beat perfect susano and madara rinnegan techs arent strong enough to kill hashirama.

madara cant use perfect susano and mokuton at the same time. he needs to drop susano to use rinnegan techs and mokuton and ems+rinnegan is needed for the meteor. unless you can show me where madara is using the other paths then this isnt debatable.

the meteor requires ems and rinnegan. doesnt matter. he hasnt used them maybe because he isnt experienced with the rinnegan. using your logic, sasuke can use kamui just because he has the ems/ms.

whatever. hashirama still learned seals from the uzumaki clan.

thats not what it said

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technically commas can be used to put events from different time periods in a sentence.

 

[EliteKakashi]

madara cant use mokuton and susano at the same time. what do his clones have to do with anything?

Are you even being serious at this point? Prove to me that he can't do it. I'm still waiting.

hashiramas mokuton is mountain busting and madaras isnt. seems like a pretty obvious gap. hashirama already beat perfect susano and madara rinnegan techs arent strong enough to kill hashirama.

Perfect Susanoo+Mokuton+Rinnegan techniques are more than enough to kill anybody in this series, including Hashi. Only exception being SO6P.

madara cant use perfect susano and mokuton at the same time. he needs to drop susano to use rinnegan techs and mokuton and ems+rinnegan is needed for the meteor. unless you can show me where madara is using the other paths then this isnt debatable.

LMAO. You're totally grasping for straws now, even disregarding what the manga says. It's already been shown he can use Susanoo and rinnegan techniques at the same time. The meteors were a rinnegan technique.

If he used the rinnegan with using susanoo, then he can use the rinnegan while using susanoo. What is there not to get about that?

Still waiting for the proof he can't use susanoo and mokuton together. Considering a mokuton technique of his is actually using susanoo.

the meteor requires ems and rinnegan. doesnt matter. he hasnt used them maybe because he isnt experienced with the rinnegan. using your logic, sasuke can use kamui just because he has the ems/ms.

What are you talking about? It's said quite clearly that he who controls the rinnegan is a master of all six pain's techniques. Madara controls the rinnegan. There's nothing debatable here.

It's never been said that MS gives everyone the same techniques. Quit bullshitting, I'm getting quite tired of it.

whatever. hashirama still learned seals from the uzumaki clan.

Proof?

thats not what it said

Spoiler

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technically commas can be used to put events from different time periods in a sentence.

During the fight, in order to better aid him, she sealed it in to herself. There's no time gap.

I'm not gonna keep going with this with you completely denying manga facts. You're saying some of the absolute most retarded shit I've ever seen.

I've never seen such a big fanboy.

 

[TheSages456]

Are you even being serious at this point? Prove to me that he can't do it. I'm still waiting.



Perfect Susanoo+Mokuton+Rinnegan techniques are more than enough to kill anybody in this series, including Hashi. Only exception being SO6P.



LMAO. You're totally grasping for straws now, even disregarding what the manga says. It's already been shown he can use Susanoo and rinnegan techniques at the same time. The meteors were a rinnegan technique.

If he used the rinnegan with using susanoo, then he can use the rinnegan while using susanoo. What is there not to get about that?

Still waiting for the proof he can't use susanoo and mokuton together. Considering a mokuton technique of his is actually using susanoo.



What are you talking about? It's said quite clearly that he who controls the rinnegan is a master of all six pain's techniques. Madara controls the rinnegan. There's nothing debatable here.

It's never been said that MS gives everyone the same techniques. Quit bullshitting, I'm getting quite tired of it.



Proof?



During the fight, in order to better aid him, she sealed it in to herself. There's no time gap.

I'm not gonna keep going with this with you completely denying manga facts. You're saying some of the absolute most retarded shit I've ever seen.

I've never seen such a big fanboy.

because he never did do that. quit making up your fanfiction madara. mokuton clones are clones that retain all the abilities of the original. they did not use mokuton with susano up. stop trolling.

madara disagrees

the meteor requires both susano and the rinnegan. stop trolling. they are clones so of course they can use susano. madara cant make a forest while camping in susano though. the manga has shown this.

he hasnt used them. even so your fanfiction madara still says he loses to hashirama.

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what you tried to do here is straight bullshit. you conveniently ignore the part "hashirama gained control of the nine tails".
it says "during their fight hashirama gained control of the nine tails,(comma which means that a different event is is about to be stated) and in order to better aid him, mito sama sealed it inside her body becoming the first nine tails jinchuriki.

 

[EliteKakashi]

because he never did do that. quit making up your fanfiction madara. mokuton clones are clones that retain all the abilities of the original. they did not use mokuton with susano up. stop trolling.

You can call them whatever you want. It's mokuton clones using Susanoo. And you've yet to prove to me that he can't do it. "just because he hasn't" Is the reason? Get real.

madara disagrees

It's a characters opinion, not manga fact. It's another case of false hype. If we went off every character's opinion, Minato would be the strongest hokage, because according to Kakashi, Naruto is the only one who can surpass him. Or maybe, Hiruzen is the strongest, because Iruka said he was. See where character's opinions get you? No where.

the meteor requires both susano and the rinnegan. stop trolling. they are clones so of course they can use susano. madara cant make a forest while camping in susano though. the manga has shown this.

Thank you, you just said it. He can use susanoo and rinnegan at the same time.

The manga has shown this? Where did Madara try and fail, or state that he could not use mokuton while inside susanoo? Still waiting.

he hasnt used them. even so your fanfiction madara still says he loses to hashirama.

Already covered this.

Spoiler

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What exactly is the purpose of this image?

what you tried to do here is straight bullshit. you conveniently ignore the part "hashirama gained control of the nine tails".
it says "during their fight hashirama gained control of the nine tails,(comma which means that a different event is is about to be stated) and in order to better aid him, mito sama sealed it inside her body becoming the first nine tails jinchuriki.

Yes, he gained control. We know that. He's capable of making kurama his bitch with mokuton, we know that. After he gained control, in order to better aid him during the fight, Mito sealed the kyuubi in to herself. It's stated quite clearly.

You want to know why she did that? Because instead of him having to waste chakra to keep the kyuubi controlled and fight Madara at the same time, Mito sealed it in to herself to BETTER AID HIM.

I proved this to you in our last conversation..I can't believe you're making me prove it to you again.

 

[TheSages456]

You can call them whatever you want. It's mokuton clones using Susanoo. And you've yet to prove to me that he can't do it. "just because he hasn't" Is the reason? Get real.



It's a characters opinion, not manga fact. It's another case of false hype. If we went off every character's opinion, Minato would be the strongest hokage, because according to Kakashi, Naruto is the only one who can surpass him. Or maybe, Hiruzen is the strongest, because Iruka said he was. See where character's opinions get you? No where.



Thank you, you just said it. He can use susanoo and rinnegan at the same time.

The manga has shown this? Where did Madara try and fail, or state that he could not use mokuton while inside susanoo? Still waiting.



Already covered this.



What exactly is the purpose of this image?



Yes, he gained control. We know that. He's capable of making kurama his bitch with mokuton, we know that. After he gained control, in order to better aid him during the fight, Mito sealed the kyuubi in to herself. It's stated quite clearly.

You want to know why she did that? Because instead of him having to waste chakra to keep the kyuubi controlled and fight Madara at the same time, Mito sealed it in to herself to BETTER AID HIM.

I proved this to you in our last conversation..I can't believe you're making me prove it to you again.

its mokuton clones using susano, not madara using mokuton with susano up.

hashiramas hype contradicts hiruzens but im not getting into that. madara knows his powers better than anyone else and you are trying to argue with him. bitch please.

the meteor isnt purely a rinnegan tech. its a combination of ems and rinnegan. madara cant use pure rinnegan techs with susano up as shown.

you havent countered anything.

it shows that hashirama learned uzumaki clan seals and had relations with their village or whatever.

the manga never said "in order to better aid him during the fight". are you going to keep wasting my time changing the manga or are you going to present facts.