Greatness23
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ready to see how sasuke and narutos fight with them changes from how the movie made it shake. And I'm curious to kno what he told Sarada
Momoshiki is a weakling compared to Kaguya
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salamander uchiha
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I've seen it the thing is Madara didn't try absorbtion against them. The thought didn't even cross his mind, even when he was fighting the Kage he was testing them as BZ confirms. The fact is Madara confirms the rinnegan can absorb all jutsu and jutsu are composed of chakra therefore Madara can absorb chakra whether in jutsu form or not.
We could accept that as a possible power of the outer path however Madara can also absorb jutsu which are conposed of chakra. It's an absorbtion ability he has of some sort outside of the 6 paths specifically since the outer path doesn't have such an ability. Madara's comment to Hashirama was in reference to Hashirama seeing his face and not his absorbtion ability.
That may have been true but the absorbtion power/ six paths jutsu Madara is referencing here are the 6 paths (Rinnegan powers) since he taught them to Obito. Kabuto's claims were dismissed by Madara as being fraudulent as in kabuto didn't build that power. I'll make it clearer below.
Edo Madara did have the Rinnegan even if it was a false Rinnegan it was actually his Rinnegan power. The proof is his fake EMS(actual design) was activated and changed into the fake Rinnegan.
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Illuminater
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Great argument, bro. Your well detailed and explained points completely destroyed my argument. But seriously, have you ever made a good post on this forum? I only see you dickriding Uchiha's and following the latest NB Hive Mind trolling. You could delete all 22k of your post and nothing of value would be missing. 22k posts and now you're sucking off the Minamoto fanboys. How the mighty have fallen.
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Rikudou Tobi
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Absorbing ninjutsu≠Absorbing chakra, oherwise you'd be giving part 1 Yoroi ninjutsu absorbing feats.
Madara was controlled by Kabuto during the fight against Sm naruto and Madara, he also did try against the SA so that he can maintain the connection to the jubi. The only time he didn't try completely is when he fought the Gokages because he openly admitted that he wanted to test their power.
He can't absorb ninjutsus without the rinnegan, and madara was specifically talking about the abilities because he said
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can attain true happiness not just a face attached to his chest.However more importantly the power to chakra is not a prerequisite into absorbing ninjutsus because two different functions are used. We can't assume that both of them are the same otherwise a lot of problems would've been dealt with.
Neither madara or obito had the rinnegan to learn or teach that move and obito has shown no usages of using any other rinnegan power other then the Outer path. I know your implying that the six path of pain jutsus are six path jutsu, but they are not because the manga and the DB never stated the jutsus to be the same. People just automatically assumed they were just because it says "six paths."
That's a debate for another time but you get what I mean.
Edo tensei restroes past powers just like it did Itachi, so the EMS fake or not is completely fine. It's the rinnegan power that kabuto said he completely modified into his body since he died without a rinnegan in his eye socket.
Even if edo madara were given rinnegan powers, they were still not his pseudo because that modified rinnegan eyes could not use the Outer path/Summon Gedo mazo, it could not use chibaku tensei, and it could not use Limbo Hengoku like Madara's original rinnegan powers can use.
Ansatsuken
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Awards
Yes alot of it. Even I dont know how to track back those quality posts. Among the many quality posts there were countless of it that have me schooled you very successfully and no diff in alot of Naruto related topic.
It because there is nothing in this base that demand intelligence to contributes anymore. People rarely posting using their brain, logic and fact but emotion just like you here. Thread also less intelligent and interesting. So what would you do??? Just playing around.
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NextGenNinja
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Naruto is empowered by Hagoromo's chakra, so it isn't surprising he can make a rasengan that big.
Yeah idk. :nuts:
salamander uchiha
Active member
You've got it the wrong way round a greater can do a lesser skill not vice versa. If Yoroi could avsorv ninjutsu then he can absorv it's lesser form (chakra).
This isn't true Kavuto never controlled Madara he gave madara free reign. The only times Madara attempted absorbtion was when he actually used it other than that he never attempted it.
He wasn't referring to the absorbtion skill he was clearing up the purpose of the Hashiboob/Hashirama's chakra. Hashi saw the boob and was like wtf, Madara continued and went onto tell him it's purpose.
You've got it the wrong way round if one can absorb ninjutsu he can absorb chakra not the other way round. With ninjutsu he absorbs the change in form and nature + the chakra used to form the jutsu. Since Madara demonstarted the greater via absorbtion of Ama he can absorb chakra which he demostrated via the absorbtion of chakra(kyubi cloak). If he only absorbed chakra then you'd have a point since he hasn't demonstrated the abikity to absorb a change in form and nature= reauirements of ninjutsu.
The outer path isn't the 6 paths it's one of the paths and Madara could teach Obito via genjutsu. He wouldn't need a rinnegan for that. Obito also confirmed he could use the human path which he was going to use on Yamato so he learnt it from somewhere (Madara).
And madara dismissed the assertion of the Kabuto altogether, the only part that's true is Madara had his fake Rinnegan but the power of those eyes was always Madara's. Madara not using any of those doesn't mean he wasn't able to do so since the pseudo rinnegan was still his Rinnegan. Madara did things when he wanted and didn't when he didn't feel like it (bad writing). He was able to use it's absorbtion power and he referred to it as such, he was able to use the outer path rods as a few examples. He even used a more advanced version of bansho tennin(pull path) instead of pull people towards himsel he pulled meteors.
Rikudou Tobi
Active member
There isn't a skill that's greater than the other really. Momoshiki can absorb all the jutsus and he can even turn people into peaches to absorb their abilities/jutsus but he still can't absorb people of their chakra which lead to him consuming Kinshiki in the first place.
It's just different powers being used, that's why I said
absorbing ninjutsus≠absorbing chakra
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He said the power of uchiha and senju, hashirama's face is not the power of uchiha and senju. He showed Hashirama his face but he already told him as an edo tensei that he took a chunk of his body during their fight.
Take it as you will but it's your opinion so I'm not gonna force anything on you.
That's not true and it wasn't stated in the manga. Even Momoshiki couldn't do this and before hand edo Madara showed that he couldn't absorb a kyubi cloak or a lightning style armour from Ay despite being able to absorb ninjutsu.
He told them that physical attacks are his weakness after all.
Madara never absorbed amatersu either.
You can't teach people kekkai genkai in a genjutsu-scape and when Madara told Obito that he would teach him the following ninjutsus, the genjutsu was already over:
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Nagato's Gedo arts requires King of Hades to be summoned and the King of Hades is a secret art that also utilizes Jigokudo as well. These are things that both Madara and Obito were unable to use and they're just one of the many.
Even when dealing with capturing naruto.
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vs.
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.Even in absorption power he was only able to absorb the kyubi cloak yet he failed to absorb any jutsu with that rinnegan.
Those rods are not Outer path, they're rods that was implanted in him during the time he was connected to the statue. He's used those rods without the rinnegan before and even Blind Madara utilized them.
It's Madara's powers but they're fake powers. You can't say that these things literally considering the fact that it was confirmed that he couldn't summon the gedo mazo from Obito's body until he got his real eyes and he wasn't able to use Limbo hengoku with those fake eyes.
And him drawing down meteors is not bansho tenin either.
I know exactly what you're saying (thinking) and it's not that I don't understand. You're suggesting that because Madara seemingly has the capability to do something means he should be able to do it. You feel that absorption ninjutsu>absorbing chakra directly so therefore madara should be able to absorb chakra himself.
You feel like that just because his fake edo eyes are not capable of doing what his real eyes can do, it should be plot and bad writing because fake powers or not, Madara should be able to do it regardless.
salamander uchiha
Active member
Momoshiki does what he does how he does none of that implies he can't absorb chakra, if anything he absorbs and converts the chakra to pill form. He chooses to make the pills out of the chakra he absorbs. Perhaps that's his mechanism for transferring power just as he absorbs a jutsu with one hand and releases it amped up with the other that's how his jutsu work. Chakra absorbtion is just a chakra absorbtion skill even yoroi okado has a form of it. Ninjitsu absorbtion is more complex because their are 3 things that are absorbed, Shape, nature and chakra of a jutsu. That's why they're not equal one is far more complex than the other and only Rokudo users have shown it while the other(chakra absorbtion) a basic skill has been shown by non Rokudo(Yoroi,Hashirama).
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Kabuto was mever controlling Madara's actions bro, Madara was doing it himself.
Madara did say he took a portion of his power before however he never made it clear to Hashirama until this point. That's why Madara referred back to what he told Hashi at the atone tablet in this conversation. Hashi was clueless until this point.
You're joking right anytime Madara used absorbtion it worked. Did Madara attempt an absorbtion on Ay and fail? If he did I'll concede if not the point still stands.
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Of course Madara can teach via genjutsu he makes it clear anything is possible because he's connected to the Mezo.
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As for obito he confirmed that he could use the human path and would've had Kabuto not stopped him. It's enough to know he could use it and was taught 6 paths jutsu by Madara as he made clear via flashback.
The reason Obito doesn't use the paths against Naruto are three number 1 interference(Kakashi and Guy), number 2 because he's already doing too many things as Kakashi confirms, number 3 plot restriction otherwise Naruto would get neg diffed.
Obito had rods planted in him however Madara created the rods via the Mezo without the Rinnegan. And with the fake Rinnegan he created them from his own body in other words he can use the outer path. He had only 1 real restriction which was the inability to use Tensei (revival jutsu) since he's dead. Also the condition for summoning/controlling the mezo are having Senju Uchiha DNA which Madara made clear to Obito. The statement of Madara not being able to summon the Mezo is misunderstood as Madara needed the Rinnegan to undo the 10 tails seal from inside Obitoand summon the Mezo. It's the same way how awakeneing the Rinnegan unlocked the ten tails seal before. As for not usong Limbo o can't give you a reason for that past Madara actually not using it or requiring his actual eyes to use an exclusive jutsu.
I never said Meteor summoning was Bansho tenin I said it was a more advanced form. 1 draws humans to the user the other draws heavenly bodies to the user.
I'm glad you understand why? Anyway I've given the reasons why Madara can and should be able to absorb chakra. He can do so without the Rinnegan as he's shown via touch so there's nothing stopping him doing with the Rinnegan. The only thing is it'll be amplified and be many fold faster just as he instantly absorbed Jinton with the fake Rinnegan whereas he took longer with Ama flames without eyes. Just as he can use PS with fake Rinnegan and lesser Susanoo without eyes. The same principle is true for any ability Madara demonstrates including chakra absorbtion.
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Rikudou Tobi
Active member
While I'm glad to see that you're aware of the different forms of absorption power which I've been saying the whole time, it still doesn't stop the fact that Momoshiki still isn't able to absorb chakra but he is able to absorb ninjutsus and people while converting them into red pills. Momoshiki is an example of him being able to use the ninjutsu that he absorbs but I'm not gonna start making assumptions that Madara will be able to do the same.
Regardless of what seems complex there still a form that's going to be a lot more difficult than the next. Like Sasuke's rinnegan powers is to absorb chakra. He's not able to absorb ninjutsu (at least from what we know) but he's able to absorb a bijus chakra directly from a jinchuuriki without the need of a God tree (momoshiki) or Gedo statue (rest).
Are you gonna debate me that Madara will be able to do the same?
Alright bro I hear yeah. But then that means he wasn't holding back/fooling around when he
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. I know, but the whole point is to show him the power that he was talking about, correct?
Originally I thought that Madara absorbed it too until I notice that the fire was still burning his clothing:
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He wasn't able to absorb
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too. Yeah he made himself young inside of the IT, but when he said he was going to teach obito the six path jutsus he was old. The genjutsu was already over when he said he will teach him and give him the black rods.
Your assuming that the rinne ningendo is the six path jutsu that madara taught him, but one thing I want to tell you that's very important to your argument that you're not seeing.
You said that madara told Obito to use the black rods for the six path jutsu however we've only seen madara use it in
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(two if you count rinnegan madara moments), but what you're implying here that madara is talking about him using the six bodies for the 6 jutsus. That's called the six path of PAIN, Madara doesn't know anything about that technique because Nagato created it to compensate for his immobility.So it wouldn't make sense for Madara to tell Obito to use his black rods for 6 bodies when Madara himself doesn't even do so or even know how to do so himself either.
Even with the Gai and Kakashi thing they asked why isn't Tobi using Pain's jutsus, not the six path jutsus. All they did was speculate and even when they came to the solution that it was the 7 bijus, he still didn't use any of the jutsus in that 4 v 1 fight.
Edo Madara did have uchiha and senju dna, yet he still wasn't able to control/summon the gedo mazo. Madara also did not undo the 10 tails seal, he cannot do that to Obito. He just simply summoned it out of Obito with his real rinnegan because his contract is stronger. The black rods were also part of Madara's past power before he died so edo tensei rules is that you get access to all your previous powers and the edo eyes that you died with. Kabuto said he modified the tissue to restore his youth and give him fake edo eyes. Outer path was not used when he was an edotensei.
As for the limbo part, it's not stated to be true. Even the meteor jutsu being an advance form of "bansho tenin" is a speculation as well.
We don't know what it is but that was something kabuto modified into that fake edo eyes.
I know his real body can absorb chakra without the rinnegan, but as for his edo tenseo fake eyes he wasn't able to. That's why I used edo madara as part of my example.
What I'm trying to get you to see is that I understand the points your trying to make, but your mot understanding mine. These are all just speculations because Madara has power. You feel like since he's done something that seems to be on a higher level, therefore he should easily be able to do things that are perceived to be on a lower level. I'm trying to tell you that it's false and it contradicts the purpose of his exploitation. You have to follow the manga to a tee otherwise things will contradict each other. We can't assume things to be.
You get what I mean, right?
salamander uchiha
Active member
There's no comparison between Momo's absorbtion and Madara's. Momo's in the inferior form even his jutsu absorbtion is different to that of human Rinnegan users. If you want to establish simultude use the earthly Rinnegan of the same realm and same origin. I've already given you the breakdown of the method Madara uses and how it works you can't really use Momo's to try and dismiss his absorbtion. I've already given you the breakdown of how ninjutsu absorbtion works and how it's superior to chakra absorbtion a skill lesser beings such as Yoroi(via touch) and Hashirama(via mokuton).
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Madara absorbed it via his foot like a boss and you see the same ZWWW sound
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Sasuke absorbet it via fist and you see the same Zwww sound
The main difference is Madara's powers are at a fraction of their true level without the Rinnegan.
You can't really be trying to dismiss Madara's chakra absorbtion ability based off of Sasuke. Sasuke absorbs a Jinchuriki's chakra with the Jin gives him by touch. Madara absorbs a jin cloak and chakra by touch albeit by foot. Both perform the same skill via different limb so yes Madara has the same ability.
Of course if Madara was hit by that it would likely take too much time for him to recover and leave him open to being sealed.
Madara's purpose was to show he'd become greater it was more of a boast.
This isn't true Madara absrobed the bulk of it we know this because we can see the flames burning his hair and all over his armour. By the time he drops the armour only remnants remain on it. The remaining flames were absorbed and the scans I provided clearly show flames still on Madara's body after he removes his armour. He absorbed those flames they didn't just disappear and Madara didn't have any injuries after that either.
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That's because Madara never attempted absorbtion, everytime he attempted it he absorbed jutsu.
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Look here Madara thoughts are jutsu this pitiful isnt even worth absorbing while looking at Ay's lightning armour fist. He's pretty much confirming he can absorb it so i don't see why you're arguing he can't.
My points are many but the long and the short of it is Madara taught him those things over time. Not straight away, Obito was only having key moment flashbacks he wasn't going to flash back the entirety of what happened. And yes my point is Madara already confirmed Obito could sync with the Mezo and control it because of his Uchiha Senju DNA and therefore use it and the outer path. Obito knew the human path and he confirmed Madara taught him the 6 paths jutsu which are seperate from the outer path(Mezo). We know where he learnt it from(Madara), the purpose of the flash back was to clear it up.
As for the 6 paths of pain I agree the method of using the 6 paths via the body is Nagato's method. However the 6 paths jutsu(realms) aren't exclusive to Nagato but available to all rinnegan users. Madara was giving his own rokudo to Obito so hw could use the paths(not bodies) even if to a lesser degree since he didn't have the Rinnegan.
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They assumed he'd use them just like Pain did which Obito didn't. However we know Obito can use the paths if he so chooses to since he confirmed he can use the human path. And the databook entry confirms a Rinnegan user gains access to the 7 powers and Madara taught him the paths.
Madara confirmed all that was necessary to control the Mezo was the Senju and Uchiha DNA, edo Madara had it so therefore he could use the outer path. We know the summoning wasn't referring to that, edo Madara couldn't summon Kurama even though he had a contract with it because it was sealed in Naruto. The same is true for the Mezo which is sealed by the 6paths seal. Madara needed the real Rinnegan to undo the seal and summon as he did in the past that's the only logical explanation. As for the rods whether or not Madara regained his past powers as an edo he still used outer path jutsu the chakra rods. That confirms he had access to the outer path.
Kabuto didn't modify anything into his fake eyes, that's specualtion. Madara even rebuked his claims on creating Madara's power, Madara knows it better than Kabuto. At this point I'll only be specualting on why Madara didn't use the limbo the truth is I don't know, past nerf or keeping it for the right time i don't know why.
I get everything you mean but Madara confirmed he could absorb the lightning armour as I posted above. Madara doesn't attwmpt to absorb jutsu he considers pitiful. I've said it before Edo Madara not doing something doesn't mean he can't do it unless he tried and failed.
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This is my last post it takes me ages writing up walls of texts.
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Rikudou Tobi
Active member
Once again, blind madara's absorption power is not the same as edo madara's own. For starters blind madara doesn't have a rinnegan, so he doesn't have any access to the rinnegan absorption power.
And there's no such thing as inferior absorbing power because otherwise Hashirama wouldn't negated edo Madara's rinnegan absorption ninjutsu with his own wood dragon's chakra absorbing powers.
The whole thing is your speculation. I'm not gonna take something that is not a fact from the manga, that's just how it is.
The reason why I don't speculate people's abilities is because there's no cap to what the limits are and it can lead to unreasonable contradiction after another.
Okay, then you just proved my point with this then.
By showing him his new additional powers that made him stronger in the first place.
He didn't absorb the flame, the flames didn't even touch his hair it was just on his armour. You can see amatersu burn his armour completely to ashes.
And if Madara absorbed that flame he wouldn't of taken off his clothes, he'll just absorb the whole thing without removing any garment like Kaguya did.
Madara's talking about the Lava style not the lightning armour. He said that Ay's lightning armour was
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, that's it. What Madara taught him is the Jutsus of six paths not the six path jutsus of pain.
Just so you know Six Path Ten Tails coffin seal IS a jutsu of six paths that Madara taught him, right? In the end of the day when he taught him that jutsu, it wasn't under a genjutsu so no rinnean kkg was used when neither of them had a rinnegan to begin with.
Rinne ningendo is something different from what we're talking about.
The six path jutsus madara taught obito was the one that was used on edo Hashirama. Besides that there is no other six path jutsu.
That's the rinnegan not the 6 path rods and again if you go further it says that Nagato is the sole user
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Obito can not use those realm powers with the black rods alone, the rinnegan is required to use those jutsus that nagato created and when used with the black rods they are called the six path of pain. If he can do it with the rinnegan (which he can't) then there wouldn't be a need for those black rods in the first place.
Jutsus of Six path≠Six path of pain jutsus. It's called jutsus of six path for a reason, because Hagormoo is called the Six paths. It's the same thing as saying Jutsus of hagormoo.
Madara taught him the jutsus of six path not the six path of pain jutsus. Huge difference because Madara didn't teach him any of those skills to use nagato's 7 powers which the 3rd databook file book said Nagato is the sole user and the 4th databook also states that Nagato remains to be the sole user.
Madara's been able to use the black rods without the rinnegan, so it has nothing to do with the outer path thing like you said. Those were implanted from the gedo statue. The outer path according to Nagato is the ability to control life and death, being able to resurrect the dead which edo madara was unable to do.
Madara did not unlock any seal on Obito nor did the manga implied he did. All he did was a
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, and the only reason why he was able to summon it out of his body is because his control over it is stronger than Obito.It's not a speculation because Kabuto said so himself that he modified edo Madara. Madara just told him that he didn't create this power, that's it. And the reason why Madara couldn't use limbo is because they are not his real eyes.
That wasn't lightning armour that was lava style and Madara's absorption power as edo rinnegans is not the same as blind madara who doesn't have a doujutsu at all. It doesn't make any sense.
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BlazeRelease
Active member
momo is a god who believed too much in that vulnerable power he possessed, part of him loosing is how he unerestimated the humans, he saw them as trash, he must have thought well why should i even exercise caution in fighting these animals (shinobis), thats why he lost to them. he overrated his powers too much