Misconceptions about those who died

BlackBomber

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It dosnt matter if sasuke used manda to escape the explosion, he still won, thats like saying pain only beat jiriaya because of summonings

Kisame fought one major battle & after that battle he had another with no recovery time so you can say he was playing survival fighting his next opponent wotg 1/4 of his health, i guess thats fair right?

& let me ask you this, why did deidara commit suicide???
and what battle are you talking about?
 

Vandenre1ch

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where does it state that semehada was the reason for his injury ?
I think you should re read that scene you seem to be confused on the matter it was bee who caused the injury
I know he survived. Im just pointing out that the lariat didnt connect. Look at the blood on samehada. It was because of that. Look at the page before that and who'll see Bee hitting samehada. Kisame didnt taste the full-force of lariat.
 

Vandenre1ch

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Your wrong again because is sasuke used the summoning to battle him that would be a different story but he didn't he used him as a shield because he could not reach him in the sky to stop the blast nor could he prevent it himself or run away from it.He won in a sense that he lived to tell the tale he did not bring deidara down himself he was out of chakra and sacraficed another life to survive
How can you be so dense ?

No he recovered and if you somehow want to deny that due to your dense thick skull he also regained his chakra back when he absorbed motoi's,bee's and the jonin who were there at the falls of truth before fighting gai.Try actually reading the manga so you know what your talking about
True. MS Sasuke and Deidara were evenly matched. Deidara just had one last trick up his sleeve.
 

RinneArtist

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You have some of them right but sasuke fid kill deidara, wether ppl believe it or not, Sasuke Pushed deidara to his limits & deidara even had help from tobi & yet he still looses smh Sasuke>Deidara

& Kisame was ganged up on so of course he lost, fought killer bee smh & he lost his sword... Kisame>Killer bee Kisame>Guy
Sasuke so did not defeat him they were both pushed to the limits but it was a standstill which lead to Deidara suicide and sasuke's retreat

True *****.

Naruto still lost when he fought Pain.

Kisame didnt have samehada although he'd still lose.

Kabuto had the enviroment advantage, Itachi was an edo,wanted Sasuke alive and was 2v1 and he still killed Itachi 3 times and almost caught Sasuke.
It was a bad matchup for Kisame. And your Right I forgot (as stupid as that sounds) Itachi was a edo, good point.

Do you read the manga at all ?Deidara killed himself and sasuke had nowhere to run and used manda to escape the blast this is a fact deal with it plus kisame was not ganged up on he fought guy alone with home field advantage something else you need to deal with
Thanks DeadManWonderland for the appreciation!

Kisame was alive because guy wanted him alive or he would of killed him then and there while standing over him in the ocean
This^^^^^

my god naruto beat pain get over it you can make all the excuses all you want plus kyuubi is apart of naruto i bet if you asked kishimoto he would say naruto beat pain

also sasuke beat deidara as deidara went for an all out kill but sasuke avoided it so yeah sasuke beat deidara not kill beat

the sasori fight was a joint effort from both chiyo and sakura true chiyo knew more but thats because its hard fighting a puppet master like sasori with out experiance so dont go diminishing sakuras efforts

cant argue on itaichis part

fair enought with kakauzu being in a bad situation but wasnt naruto exharsted from training to do an s rank jutsu so it was a bit even there

the oro thing sasuke states himself if it wasnt for his condition he wouldnt have won

the others cant argue
Though the Kyuubi is in Naruto he is not a part of Naruto and could not be controlled at the time. Therefore if it would have continued Naruto would have died if not for Yondaime. Having something and not being able to control is are two different things. Thats like saying I own a lion. However its not tame. It's gonna eat when its hungry enough. And No I don't think Kishi Would.
 

DeadManWonderLand

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I agree with most of your observations; nothing that hasn't already been said though.

Also, to add onto what you said about Pain, it's also important to mention that Pain was trying to capture Naruto, which is extremely more difficult than simply setting out to kill someone. If his intentions were to kill, then the battle would've gone differently.

I don't agree with your assessment of Deidara's death. Deidara killing himself means defeat. If you acknowledge that Kisame's death, which was also suicide, counted towards Guy who pushed him to that point, then logically you should also consider Deidara's death as a defeat to Sasuke, who also pushed him to that point. I say Sasuke earned that one fair and square.

Also, Kakuzu died because he underestimated Naruto, not because he was "tired". One Rasenshuriken could've conceivablydefeated a healthy Kakuzu right off that bat, destroying all four hearts. This one, for me, is debatable, but I think that Kakuzu's death was fair.

Hidan didn't die because of his stupidity or his anger. If anything, he died because Shikamaru outsmarted both Hidan and Kakuzu. Hidan's personality might have come into play, but that just means Hidan lost because he was Hidan. I don't count this one either.

Konan died fair and square. You're starting to get lazy with your list. Where is the misconception with Konan? She analyzed Tobi's jutsu, but failed to take into account his Izanagi. That was her downfall.

As far as Kabuto goes, I'm not sure if Kabuto is even dead. Besides, this shouldn't count either. Like Pain's battle, Sasuke and Itachi weren't trying to kill Kabuto, they were trying to make him stop the edo tensei. Everything else about who could kill who is speculation. So in this sense you're right: It would be wrong to say that Itachi could solo Kabuto because 1) He had help and 2) He wasn't trying to kill. But I don't think anyone would use this fight as evidence that Itachi could solo Kabuto anyway, so it seems like you're just putting up straw mans and bringing them down.
Guy defeated kisame.Kisame did nto commit suicide until later so your way of thinking is illogical on every possible scale.Sasuke could not prevent the blast from happening nor did he have enough chakra to leave he used manda as a shield he did not use him to battle there is a difference.He lived to tell the tale but he did not bring deidara down himself.I agree with you on the hidan part shikarmaru did outsmart him to win the battle
 

Kurama2012

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Sasuke so did not defeat him they were both pushed to the limits but it was a standstill which lead to Deidara suicide and sasuke's retreat



It was a bad matchup for Kisame. And your Right I forgot (as stupid as that sounds) Itachi was a edo, good point.



Thanks DeadManWonderland for the appreciation!



This^^^^^



Though the Kyuubi is in Naruto he is not a part of Naruto and could not be controlled at the time. Therefore if it would have continued Naruto would have died if not for Yondaime. Having something and not being able to control is are two different things. Thats like saying I own a lion. However its not tame. It's gonna eat when its hungry enough. And No I don't think Kishi Would.
naruto in that fight took down all the pain bodys well in sage and base mode so yeah naruto beat pain i dont care how many excuses you use the kyuubi is apart of naruto as if naruto dies then fox dies so they have a connection
and yes kishi would say naruto beat pain because he did
 

Kurama2012

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why cant people see that sasuke beat deudara yeah deidara blew himself up but sasuke was the victor as he survived the fight its like saying back in the chunin exam that temari didnt win her match because shikamaru gave up she may not have gave the final blow to beat shikamru but if the opponent is forced to give up or commit suicide in the hope to kill the opponent but doesn't then who ever survives is the winner its like with 3rd v oro, oro never killed the 3rd but he won the fight
all your doing is trying to find a hax in all these fights to justify how somebody didnt loose and claim there invincible when there not as there is a weakness to everyone
 
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Guilty as Sin

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Guy defeated kisame.Kisame did nto commit suicide until later so your way of thinking is illogical on every possible scale.Sasuke could not prevent the blast from happening nor did he have enough chakra to leave he used manda as a shield he did not use him to battle there is a difference.He lived to tell the tale but he did not bring deidara down himself.I agree with you on the hidan part shikarmaru did outsmart him to win the battle
*Sigh*. Your reading comprehension is obviously lacking. I'm not going to waste my time re-explaining my post, so I'll just talk about the points you made in your reply to me.

First of all, take the time to calm down, then read what I'm about to say.

Let's say there are zombies in your house, and there are no possible ways you can escape. You decide that you can't do anything to save yourself, so you might as well destroy your house with an explosion and take as many zombies out as you can.

Now, when you killed yourself, did the zombies win? I say, yes, in a manner of speaking. They got the better of you, which is why you decided to kill yourself in the first place.

Likewise, Sasuke got the better of Deidara. He countered everything Deidara had put against him, including his final suicide explosion. In the end, Sasuke didn't kill him himself, just like the zombies didn't kill you, but Sasuke came out alive and that made him the victor.

Again, I agree with you, Sasuke didn't kill Deidara himself. However, I disagree with the conclusion that Sasuke didn't earn it. He forced Deidara's hand. He brought him to commit suicide. He shattered his hopes of ever defeating Itachi or any Uchiha. He survived his blast with a summoning. Nothing Deidara did ended up killing Sasuke. In the end, Sasuke came out alive and Deidara was dead. If you call that a standstill, then you obviously do not know the meaning of the word.

To conclude, you don't have to kill your opponent yourself to win or to be considered the victor. One last analogy. If I put poison in your drink, and you died, did I kill you, or did the poison kill you? It's a false question. Both apply.

Likewise, Deidara killed himself, but technically Sasuke killed him as well, because he forced him to drink the suicide pill, so to speak.
 
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